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More K8L details leaked ...

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January 26, 2007 3:01:06 PM

Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

More about : k8l details leaked

January 26, 2007 3:09:30 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:
January 26, 2007 3:36:47 PM

The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.
Related resources
January 26, 2007 3:57:26 PM

Yeah... I still think someone fell asleep at the wheel when designing the 939; only to realize, "crap... we need one more pin!"

Oh well... moving on...

The new AMD processors look very nice on paper. I hope they live up to the hype!
January 26, 2007 4:10:46 PM

Quote:
Yeah... I still think someone fell asleep at the wheel when designing the 939; only to realize, "crap... we need one more pin!"

Oh well... moving on...

The new AMD processors look very nice on paper. I hope they live up to the hype!


Well AMD do needs good processors to stop Intel from taking back market share ... I sure do hope they are able to capitalize on their technological advantages like HT and IMC to score wins both in server and desktop space ...
January 26, 2007 4:16:44 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
January 26, 2007 4:24:40 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
There'll be two factors to help them on this; 65nm and 300mm wafers.
January 26, 2007 4:26:40 PM

Looks like the future Semprons OCd to 2.8 or 2.9Ghz will take all current high-end X2s to school. Makes me wonder how much that L3 cache really matters.
January 26, 2007 4:35:17 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.


Why do all of you sound like your X64 CPUs were released on schedule every time?
January 26, 2007 4:36:16 PM

Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to plug in a new architecuture chip into your 939, but....it's a new architecture, and even the Intel 775 is going to be dated soon enough. It's impressive enough to me just that you can plug it into an AM2 board, allowing a pleasant upgrade path to AM2 owners.

As I mentioned elsewhere, eventually someone doing this upgrade could continue piecemeal over time: next an Am3 motherboard in another year, to allow new components to be future proofed, and re-using the Barcelona chip in the Am3, until finally getting a future Am3 cpu in 2 years or whenever.
January 26, 2007 4:36:29 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
There'll be two factors to help them on this; 65nm and 300mm wafers.

Yes, now I'm beginning to see the reasons behind AMD past year decisions... the fact that they pushed 90 nm so much was to maximize investment return to be able to simultaneously ramp, expand and purchase a new company ... but AMD is still a company selling technology not wafers and wires :roll: so K8L better live up to its expectations ...

Anyways I for one I'm going to upgrade soon because of Vista and all so it kinda pisses me off that AMD's new generation of processors isn't available now :roll:. I'm kind of tired of waiting to upgrade ... my time has come ... :D 
January 26, 2007 4:42:11 PM

The only thing blowing my mind lately, is the difference between CPUs today are getting so huge that they no more seem to be of the same era.
Back in the past (in the pre-multicore era), the latest, cheap CPU of a company, performed about 50% of the flagship, now a CeleronD is less than 25% of a QX6700, and if K8L in general perform as they say, my much loved 4200+, supposed to satisfy my needs for the next 2 years, will be soon kicked at the bottom of the CPU charts and I'll not sleep well knowing that a K8L quad performs more than 2X better, renders 2X faster than the CPU I work on :cry: 
January 26, 2007 4:44:09 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.
January 26, 2007 4:48:38 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.

I don't think so. From what I read before, now AMD is still ramping up Fab 36 for 65nm / 300mm fabrication from 90nm / 300mm fabrication. Then AMD will convert Fab 30 into Fab 38 (from 90nm / 200mm to 65nm / 300mm). At the same time, Fab 36 will be testing 45nm and that may be productive in mid-2008.
January 26, 2007 5:13:56 PM

Quote:
Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article


Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.

I don't think so. From what I read before, now AMD is still ramping up Fab 36 for 65nm / 300mm fabrication from 90nm / 300mm fabrication. Then AMD will convert Fab 30 into Fab 38 (from 90nm / 200mm to 65nm / 300mm). At the same time, Fab 36 will be testing 45nm and that may be productive in mid-2008.


Isn't that what I said? Fab38 was said to be going 45nm first but only after it ramped 90nm with 300mm wafers. The idea of having more then one Fab
is to allow the two current processes. Right now thats' 90nm and 65nm. By the end of 2007 it will be 65nm and 45nm.

Why would they put the 45nm equipment in Fab36 first? That would segment the Fab WHILE it's ramping 65nm (total shipments won't reach 50% before Q307 at last word). Since 90nm is going away it's best to put 45nm there first.
January 26, 2007 5:53:28 PM

Quote:
The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.

If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

Your absolute disdain for AM2 is still saddening and ill-thought out. AM2 boards will work with AM2+ CPUs fine, I don't get your issues. Calling it knee-jerk is silly, seeing as AMD had no real reason to move to AM2 besides future upgradability and to prepare for future architectures / keep up with the dropping cost of DDR2. They weren't reacting to C2D yet as it hadn't even come out in force yet, and AMD never made grandiose performance claims about it prior to launch.

It is nice to see some of AMD's planning in Fab investment coming to fruition when they will need it most. Being able to supply Barcelona & co. in sufficient quantities will be huge for AMD whether or not it lives up to its pre-release AMD statements.
January 26, 2007 6:08:43 PM

Quote:
The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.

If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

Your absolute disdain for AM2 is still saddening and ill-thought out. AM2 boards will work with AM2+ CPUs fine, I don't get your issues. Calling it knee-jerk is silly, seeing as AMD had no real reason to move to AM2 besides future upgradability and to prepare for future architectures / keep up with the dropping cost of DDR2. They weren't reacting to C2D yet as it hadn't even come out in force yet, and AMD never made grandiose performance claims about it prior to launch.

It is nice to see some of AMD's planning in Fab investment coming to fruition when they will need it most. Being able to supply Barcelona & co. in sufficient quantities will be huge for AMD whether or not it lives up to its pre-release AMD statements.

wtf is wrong with you?do you selectively read or just translate into your fu*ked up way of thinking?
do you realize how focking dumb that sounded?
Ill thought out disdain?no reason to move to am2?you condemn and validate my point all at once.?

dewd stay in your own little world ;dont reply to me and i wont reply to you;friggen nutcase. :evil:  :roll:

You are one arrogant tool with low reading comprehension. Is English your native language? If not, I'd understand more.
January 26, 2007 6:08:57 PM

I agree, AM2 brought nothing to the table. DDR2 did nothing for anyone, the cost of a whole new rig (MB,AM2 cpu, and not to forget the over priced ddr2 ram) does not make it a worthy upgrade path imo. Again price/performance :wink:
January 26, 2007 6:24:57 PM

First
Quote:
AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket...
...am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip


Then
Quote:
wed be lucky to see any competitive measure of performance with am2+ on an am2 mobo.


Make up your mind already. Its either a disaster or will not effect anything. You cant say both in the same topic and flame someone for calling you out. :roll:
January 26, 2007 6:25:50 PM

Is that you in the plaid shirt, and the flowing red locks?

P.S. sorry to the OP for getting off topic.
January 26, 2007 6:27:19 PM

Vern... chill bro. You keep this up and someone could report you. Drink some tea and sit back for a minute.
January 26, 2007 6:35:37 PM

Quote:
First
AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket...
...am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip


Then
Quote:
wed be lucky to see any competitive measure of performance with am2+ on an am2 mobo.


Make up your mind already. Its either a disaster or will not effect anything. You cant say both in the same topic and flame someone for calling you out. :roll:

by all means show how the statements are incongruent :roll:
hope you have done your reading ,both statements are factual.
am2 gained from ddr2 800 around 5% ,the htt3 in an am2 mobo will not work and I quote from sources you should already have read to pose your argument.
"performance will be sacrificed"

all facts.versus your position to support someone who began the flaming.

So you're saying that AMD has been lying for months when they've said AM2+ processors will work in AM2 motherboards? Nice of you to know better than AMD engineers and lawyers (who would sh*t a brick if AMD were pitching a statement so prominently and for so long knowing it's false).

HT3 will add bandwidth, but seeing as current HT1 base processors aren't even using all of that HT link speed, it won't matter than much. In a high-class server use, I'd say make sure you have an AM2+ board, but for even a number of enthusiasts, whatever motherboard they already have will. Be. Fine.
January 26, 2007 6:36:36 PM

Quote:
The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.

If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

When looking at it from the perspective of someone who already owned a S939 board/processor, of course AM2 looks redundant. When you look at it from other perspectives though it is not bad at all. Anyone who was coming to an AMD processor from something other than a S939 board, if they kept 939 until this summer, was buying into a dead end right before a new core. With changing the socket to AM2, it allows for any newcomers to the platform to be able to upgrade through the next generation of cores (with a performance hit for hypertransport 1 vs 2, etc), avoiding the need for a new motherboard. As far as I can tell, its really 6 in one and half a dozen in the other. Sure it didnt need to be changed and may have hurt older customers futureproofing somewhat, but at the same time it helped newer customers futureproofing.

Aside from the futureproofing it offers, I think a lot of the reasons lie in the fact that AMD is a company that makes stepped upgrades, not huge jumps like Intel. When Intel releases a new core, it is a big thing. A lot of the time it acompanies a new socket, chipset, manufacturing process, etc. AMD on the other hand takes things in baby steps to prevent and real big hiccups. I wouldnt be supprised if at least one reason behind moving to AM2 when they did is to get used to the new socket when you are not changing everything else, making it an easier transition technologywise. I know its not quite the same as AM2+, but I bet its pretty darn close.

On top of that kinda reason, I think there was also a decent market pressure from RAM manufacturers to move away from DDR to DDR2. Im going off memory here (pardon the pun) but I believe that as AM2 was coming in memory mfg's were saying how they wanted to push DDR2 and stop producing so much DDR memory. If you sit on S939 until this summer instead of support DDR2 when they did, there could very well be a backlash from memory producers or a shortage of DDR supply for the computers they are trying to push.

Just my two cents...

PS Im not an AMD fanboy, so please try to keep from saying it. My computer has a core 2 duo under the hood and I am quite pleased, but I still think that AMD's socket transitions have been a little misunderstood.
January 26, 2007 6:40:42 PM

they are factual if stated correctly or have some point of reference. which you didnt provide.

AM2+(cpu's) in AM2(socket) is *speculated* to have zero effect for the desktop.

AM2+(cpu's) in AM2(socket) is *speculated* to have a larger effect in the high end server market where the hht link actually gets stressed.

Key word speculated as neither you or I have any real idea what the outcome of this is yet.


p.s. what exactly was the AM2 a knee jerk to anyway? it was a necessary move for AMD due to the on-chip memory controller. As I recall the Athlon was still in the lead at the release of AM2. Knee-jerk is appropriate when referring to QFX.
January 26, 2007 6:41:30 PM

Quote:
:wink: Is that you in the plaid shirt, and the flowing red locks?

P.S. sorry to the OP for getting off topic.


yup thats the dewd :wink:
@ ninja ajfink seems to want to be combative on this subject as a blind AMD supporter.And he repeatedly attacks my position in inflammatory ways.I would prefer he just pose his counter position and leave it at that;but his repeat preference is to say that my point of view is less than well thought out.

how much can a person take before he finally says enough?

that aside you are correct i should ignore his crap. :wink:

I'm not saying your viewpoint is not well thought-out, I'm saying it's wrong. Blind AMD supporter, cute. I also didn't drag this down into insults until you (on a previous occasion, as well) essentially said I don't know a thing about this subject when I very well do, sir.

I apologize for the insult I made to you earlier, it was hasty.
January 26, 2007 6:44:46 PM

In that case, forget the tea and take a smoke break you freakin hippy :lol: 






[\joke]
January 26, 2007 6:47:32 PM

Quote:
:wink: Is that you in the plaid shirt, and the flowing red locks?

P.S. sorry to the OP for getting off topic.


yup thats the dewd :wink:
@ ninja ajfink seems to want to be combative on this subject as a blind AMD supporter.And he repeatedly attacks my position in inflammatory ways.I would prefer he just pose his counter position and leave it at that;but his repeat preference is to say that my point of view is less than well thought out.

how much can a person take before he finally says enough?

that aside you are correct i should ignore his crap. :wink:

I'm not saying your viewpoint is not well thought-out, I'm saying it's wrong. Blind AMD supporter, cute. I also didn't drag this down into insults until you (on a previous occasion, as well) essentially said I don't know a thing about this subject when I very well do, sir.

I apologize for the insult I made to you earlier, it was hasty.

Well I think your position is absolutely wrong;;and in return i offer my apologies ,sincerely. :wink: lets refrain from tearing down our decency to the level of insult.
I feel its is very neccesary to have a counter opinion to mine;I dont believe that everything should always agree. :wink:

There should always be differing opinions, but I agree this should be kept adult, :) 
January 26, 2007 6:48:35 PM

K8L details:

Core Enchancements:

128 Bit floating point:

[*:0e0cfd4875]Applies only to Agena & Kuma
New SSE4A instructions:

[*:0e0cfd4875]Advanced Bit manipulation
[*:0e0cfd4875]MWAIT & MONITOR instructions
[*:0e0cfd4875]Misaligned SSE ModeAdditional Features:
[*:0e0cfd4875]Power management state invariant time stamp counter (TSC)
[*:0e0cfd4875]increased number of TLB Page entries
[*:0e0cfd4875]1GB large paging support
[*:0e0cfd4875]Physical address space increased to 48 bitsIMC Enhancements

DDR2 Dimms in products variations:
[*:0e0cfd4875]Socket AM2+: Dual Channel unbuffered 1066 support
[*:0e0cfd4875]Socket 1207+ Dual Channel unbuffered 1066 supportMemory Controller enhancements
[*:0e0cfd4875]Write Burst & DRAM prefetching performance improovements
[*:0e0cfd4875]DRAM writes can be buffered in the memory controller before being opportunistically bursted into DRAM controler to improve DRAM interface efficiency
[*:0e0cfd4875]Read prefetcher detects stride paterns and issues prefetch requests based on confidence level
[*:0e0cfd4875]Channel InterleavingRoadmap:

Agena FX(K8L):

Q3 2007:
2.7-2.9GHz
4x512kB L2 cache
2MB shared L3 cache
Socket 1207+, 1207 compatible
4000MHz hypertransport Bus
TDP not determined yet
65nm SOI

Agena(K8L):

Q3 2007:
2.4-2.6GHz
4x512kB L2 cache
2MB shared L3 cache
Socket AM2+, AM2 compatible
4000MHz hypertransport Bus
TDP 125W
65nm SOI

Kuma(K8L):

Q3 2007:
2.0-2.9GHz
2x512kB L2 cache
2MB shared L3 cache
Socket AM2+, AM2 compatible
4000MHz hypertransport Bus
TDP 89W, 65W
65nm SOI

Kuma EE(K8L):

Q4 2007:
2.0-?GHz
2x512kB L2 cache
2MB shared L3 cache
Socket AM2+, AM2 compatible
4000MHz hypertransport Bus
TDP 35W
65nm SOI

Rana(K8 ):

Q4 2007:
2.1-2.3GHz
2x512kB L2 cache
No shared L3 cache
Socket AM2+, AM2 compatible
2000MHz hypertransport Bus, HTT1
TDP 65W
65nm SOI

Sources:
Chilehardware
Dailytech
January 26, 2007 6:49:35 PM

Quote:
In that case, forget the tea and take a smoke break you freakin hippy :lol: 






[\joke]


(cough cough*)wow yeah ,man ,cool.got any brownies everett? :lol: 

*wipes mouth off and drinks some milk* not anymore :wink:
January 26, 2007 6:54:38 PM

gOJDO...are you sure Rana is just a K8?

Also, I would assume the Agena FX also have a TDP of 125 watts. Anything more than that will cause a riot.

Kuma EE...oh...let the drooling commence.
January 26, 2007 6:56:16 PM

Nice find, great details.
January 26, 2007 6:59:10 PM

Quote:
what is peculiar about k8l is amd referrs to it as barcelona series,which pretty flatly implies similar design like dual IMC etc.


Well, they also modeled all the K8s after the original Opteron Hammer (even had Hammer in some of the names :)  ). "Hammer" is still used sometimes to describe the family of CPUs.
January 26, 2007 7:00:21 PM

The 125W TDP is really high... but they managed to get it 5W lower than the QX6700 ;)  Probably a result of benchmarketing ;) 


AMD really had no answer to Conroe other than to drop their prices and duck away for a little while. The K8L is going to have to answer to Penryn and the 45nm lineup. Not to mention bearlake's snowgrass and PCI-E 2.0 support.

The next 6 months will spell out a lot with regards to AMD's future.
January 26, 2007 7:02:15 PM

I think those specs meant to say 4000 MT/s, not 4000 MHz. Still, crazy FSB doubling! I'll have to get me one of those Kumas sometime if its all it is cracked up to be.
January 26, 2007 7:23:30 PM

Vern, don't confuse the HT link with the memory bus. The HT link has no affect on bandwidth to memory, so I don't see that the lack of HT 3.0 support has much, if any, impact on performance unless you are thinking of running a 16 core system as your home PC. As you know, the IMC is connected directly to memory through it's own bus and with a divider, runs as a ratio of the base clock (default 200mhz or 400 ddr or 800 ddr2 for memory). The new boards may in fact improve on memory latency, but HT3 shouldn't have any affect on it. The other thing i think you are forgetting, is that you can upgrade to a new architecture. HT 3.0 is not the only thing that AM2+ brings to the table. Are you suggesting that the lack of HT 3.0 is more significant and outweights all the other design changes that AM2+ will bring?
January 26, 2007 7:33:56 PM

Quote:
well those are great points to a point :wink:

when am2 came out it came out with the promise of am3 compatibility.I honestly feel like it was not the most appropriate reaction to c2d;it seems a bit hasty.it really doesnt fill any particular need now that am3 is no longer planned for it.
obviously am2+ should have been my purchase but my pc fried then and i was forced to upgrade.IMHO AM2 is a joke.


If I remember correctly, they never said there was a full compatibility from AM2 to AM3..
they said AM2 and AM2+ = compatible ( chips for AM2+ will be compatible with AM2 )

also AM3 chips will be compatible with AM2+ but not with AM2


Quote:
K8L details:

Core Enchancements:

128 Bit floating point:

[*:20ba635343]Applies only to Agena & Kuma
New SSE4A instructions:

[*:20ba635343]Advanced Bit manipulation
[*:20ba635343]MWAIT & MONITOR instructions
[*:20ba635343]Misaligned SSE ModeAdditional Features:
[*:20ba635343]Power management state invariant time stamp counter (TSC)
[*:20ba635343]increased number of TLB Page entries
[*:20ba635343]1GB large paging support
[*:20ba635343]Physical address space increased to 48 bitsIMC Enhancements


that means the lower end ones, like rana and lower end agena will be similar to the k8? ( Ie, 1 128 SSE each 2 cpu cycles? )

seems only the Agena non FX is tasty... I wonder too if there will be dual cores agenas o_O
January 26, 2007 7:35:54 PM

Quote:

As previously reported on DailyTech, Stars processors will use AM2+ motherboards. These processors can plug into existing AM2 motherboards today given the proper BIOS updates, but without the AM2+ sockets Stars processors will drop down to the HyperTransport 1.0 bus speeds.


Can still use AM2 mobos, I don't think the difference between HT1.0 and HT2.0 will be very big for most applications (if any). So, according to this, you should be able to drop a quad-core Agena or dual-core Kuma CPU into an existing AM2 mobo for an UG... not sure why you would want to though.

Looks like the FX line is screwed though:
Quote:

The only difference at this point between Agena and Agena FX is that Agena FX will use the Socket 1207+ interface.

But for those that like to spend all their money for bragging rights instead of doing research on price/performance IF agena FX grabs the performance crown this should actually help their epeen by making it more expesnive and exclusive and ensuring they don't have to choose between too many different mobos... not so good for the rest of us though.

Screw agena though:
Quote:

Rana, the next-generation Sempron...with frequencies in the 2.1 to 2.3 GHz range. [38% OC of core frequency should be easy since the Kumas should be able to do 2.9ghz at stock] ...The dual-core CPUs will feature 1MB of total L2 cache, but no L3 cache. [less power consumption = cooler chip = more OC. And do we even care about the L3 cache? We still have to see benchmarks to show where it makes any significant difference.] ...approximately Q4'07 if the launch schedule holds together.

Arriving a quarter later than the Agena and a little after the first round of the Kuma would give a patient person several months to let others figure out how well the chip OCs, what difference the L3 cache makes, and find the good mobos so you could make an informed decision on what to buy when the new Sempron launches (and avoid them in necessary and just buy a Kuma). Of course if OCing a Rana is FSB limited it rather puts a damper on the whole thing. Cheap dual-cores should still help encourage more multi-threaded software though.

If I can get enough info to justify it maybe I will put off my new system purchase until Q3 or Q4 isntead of getting a e4300 in Q2... (my s939 x2 4200+ system really isn't slow... I just don't want to buy more DDR ram for it).
January 26, 2007 7:36:43 PM

Agena FX(K8L)
Agena(K8L)
Kuma(K8L)
Rana(K8)


I must say I really like the code names, they are so Klingon :twisted: ... btw does anyone have any idea where they come from? I know that Kuma = bear in japanese and is a Teken character :lol: 
January 26, 2007 7:50:54 PM

Quote:
Agena FX(K8L)
Agena(K8L)
Kuma(K8L)
Rana(K8)


I must say I really like the code names, they are so Klingon :twisted: ... btw does anyone have any idea where they come from? I know that Kuma = bear in japanese and is a Teken character :lol: 


stars?
I mean sky stars & stuff :p 
I would have used constellationsbut bleh :p 

honestly, I loved AMD's city names.. :D 

Quote:
Agena FX(K8L)
Agena(K8L)
Kuma(K8L)
Rana(K8)

I must say I really like the code names, they are so Klingon :twisted: ... btw does anyone have any idea where they come from? I know that Kuma = bear in japanese and is a Teken character :lol: 


names of stars in the cosmos,google the names it will turn up star names.I would rather buy an angelina jolie core :lol:  or a paris hilton fx :lol: 
omg dude, that cracked me up XD

I wonder if Pamela's version will have HUGE pairs of "cores" XD
January 26, 2007 7:57:39 PM

Quote:
Agena FX(K8L)
Agena(K8L)
Kuma(K8L)
Rana(K8)


I must say I really like the code names, they are so Klingon :twisted: ... btw does anyone have any idea where they come from? I know that Kuma = bear in japanese and is a Teken character :lol: 


stars?
I mean sky stars & stuff :p 
I would have used constellationsbut bleh :p 

honestly, I loved AMD's city names.. :D 

Quote:
Agena FX(K8L)
Agena(K8L)
Kuma(K8L)
Rana(K8)

I must say I really like the code names, they are so Klingon :twisted: ... btw does anyone have any idea where they come from? I know that Kuma = bear in japanese and is a Teken character :lol: 


names of stars in the cosmos,google the names it will turn up star names.I would rather buy an angelina jolie core :lol:  or a paris hilton fx :lol: 
omg dude, that cracked me up XD

I wonder if Pamela's version will have HUGE pairs of "cores" XD

Yes, but it has been OC'ed beyond repair :roll:
January 26, 2007 7:58:07 PM

Ok, but i still don't understand. HT doesn't affect the memory and memory bus speed which is derived from the cpu base clock. HT is a point to point link that goes out to the SB and other peripherals, not the memory. The direct connect architecture is internal and the next version will be implimented in Shanghai next year, from what i understand. I just think you are working yourself up over a feature that is insignificant to anything but a server type environment where 2 or more sockets are implimented. AMD and Intel can't make everything backwards compatable, as it would put way to many restraints on design decisions. Besides, the cpu has the functionality built into it, it's the mainboard that has the limitation. How could anyone impliment HT3 into a motherboard, since it hadn't been fully developed.
January 26, 2007 8:33:38 PM

Quote:
Ok, but i still don't understand. HT doesn't affect the memory and memory bus speed which is derived from the cpu base clock. HT is a point to point link that goes out to the SB and other peripherals, not the memory. The direct connect architecture is internal and the next version will be implimented in Shanghai next year, from what i understand. I just think you are working yourself up over a feature that is insignificant to anything but a server type environment where 2 or more sockets are implimented. AMD and Intel can't make everything backwards compatable, as it would put way to many restraints on design decisions. Besides, the cpu has the functionality built into it, it's the mainboard that has the limitation. How could anyone impliment HT3 into a motherboard, since it hadn't been fully developed.


why are you trying to make me think? the imc on am2+ will most likely have improvements that will not be realized on am2,and it the insinuation from amd's pet naming follows through ,we may see dual imc acrossed the board,which also isnt an am2 supported feature.

youre making my brain hurt :lol: 

Mine too. :) 

But I do think there will be enough memory bandwidth in a single bi-direcitonal memory bus (with an improved crossbar) in it's current state. AM2+ is also supposed to support ddr2 1066. However, I could be wrong!
January 26, 2007 9:09:43 PM

lol. Combine agema and kuma and what do you get?

AKUMA!

Japanese for SATAN lol



AMD is the devil. :twisted:
January 26, 2007 9:19:08 PM

Quote:
:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
the pam anderson core with 2 oversized IMC units and a massive crossbar between them. :wink:
It will be a real multitasking CPU, supporting 4 threads. :lol: 
January 27, 2007 2:06:56 PM

Quote:
When looking at it from the perspective of someone who already owned a S939 board/processor, of course AM2 looks redundant. When you look at it from other perspectives though it is not bad at all. Anyone who was coming to an AMD processor from something other than a S939 board, if they kept 939 until this summer, was buying into a dead end right before a new core. With changing the socket to AM2, it allows for any newcomers to the platform to be able to upgrade through the next generation of cores


This would've been fine if they'd continued making the newer chips for 939 as well...I for one, got shafted. I bought a 3000+ in hopes of upgrading...but the FX-60's are still $412 on TigerDirect (cheapest right now), and you can get a Core2Duo for half of that.
January 27, 2007 2:41:02 PM

Quote:
When looking at it from the perspective of someone who already owned a S939 board/processor, of course AM2 looks redundant. When you look at it from other perspectives though it is not bad at all. Anyone who was coming to an AMD processor from something other than a S939 board, if they kept 939 until this summer, was buying into a dead end right before a new core. With changing the socket to AM2, it allows for any newcomers to the platform to be able to upgrade through the next generation of cores


This would've been fine if they'd continued making the newer chips for 939 as well...I for one, got shafted. I bought a 3000+ in hopes of upgrading...but the FX-60's are still $412 on TigerDirect (cheapest right now), and you can get a Core2Duo for half of that.
]
]But you can get an Opteron 185 or $335 or a 180 for $275. Both will easily hit 2.8GHz, maybe 3GHz with a little extra V.
January 27, 2007 2:52:17 PM

I think AMD should have gone to mythical god codenames for their cores. It also saddens me that the name "Sparta" was wasted on Semprons.
!