Ranman68k

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Yeah... I still think someone fell asleep at the wheel when designing the 939; only to realize, "crap... we need one more pin!"

Oh well... moving on...

The new AMD processors look very nice on paper. I hope they live up to the hype!
 

cryogenic

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Yeah... I still think someone fell asleep at the wheel when designing the 939; only to realize, "crap... we need one more pin!"

Oh well... moving on...

The new AMD processors look very nice on paper. I hope they live up to the hype!

Well AMD do needs good processors to stop Intel from taking back market share ... I sure do hope they are able to capitalize on their technological advantages like HT and IMC to score wins both in server and desktop space ...
 

cryogenic

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
 

m25

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
There'll be two factors to help them on this; 65nm and 300mm wafers.
 

ajfink

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Looks like the future Semprons OCd to 2.8 or 2.9Ghz will take all current high-end X2s to school. Makes me wonder how much that L3 cache really matters.
 

BaronMatrix

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.


Why do all of you sound like your X64 CPUs were released on schedule every time?
 

halbhh

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Yeah, it'd be nice to be able to plug in a new architecuture chip into your 939, but....it's a new architecture, and even the Intel 775 is going to be dated soon enough. It's impressive enough to me just that you can plug it into an AM2 board, allowing a pleasant upgrade path to AM2 owners.

As I mentioned elsewhere, eventually someone doing this upgrade could continue piecemeal over time: next an Am3 motherboard in another year, to allow new components to be future proofed, and re-using the Barcelona chip in the Am3, until finally getting a future Am3 cpu in 2 years or whenever.
 

cryogenic

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:

Well with the chain of delays AMD faced last year, one could be skeptic about AMD's ability to deliver products on schedule... but this time around they can not afford not to deliver on time, so I'm guessing they will do all there is in their power to meet the deadlines.
There'll be two factors to help them on this; 65nm and 300mm wafers.

Yes, now I'm beginning to see the reasons behind AMD past year decisions... the fact that they pushed 90 nm so much was to maximize investment return to be able to simultaneously ramp, expand and purchase a new company ... but AMD is still a company selling technology not wafers and wires :roll: so K8L better live up to its expectations ...

Anyways I for one I'm going to upgrade soon because of Vista and all so it kinda pisses me off that AMD's new generation of processors isn't available now :roll:. I'm kind of tired of waiting to upgrade ... my time has come ... :D
 

m25

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The only thing blowing my mind lately, is the difference between CPUs today are getting so huge that they no more seem to be of the same era.
Back in the past (in the pre-multicore era), the latest, cheap CPU of a company, performed about 50% of the flagship, now a CeleronD is less than 25% of a QX6700, and if K8L in general perform as they say, my much loved 4200+, supposed to satisfy my needs for the next 2 years, will be soon kicked at the bottom of the CPU charts and I'll not sleep well knowing that a K8L quad performs more than 2X better, renders 2X faster than the CPU I work on :cry:
 

BaronMatrix

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.
 

qcmadness

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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.

I don't think so. From what I read before, now AMD is still ramping up Fab 36 for 65nm / 300mm fabrication from 90nm / 300mm fabrication. Then AMD will convert Fab 30 into Fab 38 (from 90nm / 200mm to 65nm / 300mm). At the same time, Fab 36 will be testing 45nm and that may be productive in mid-2008.
 

BaronMatrix

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Dec 14, 2005
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Just like I was somehow expectiong AMD is preparing to launch a whole line of products based on K8L includind desktop quad cores and dual cores ...
here is the article

Hopefully the transition is fast enough. :wink:


It won't be that fast because AMD has to ramp down 90nm. They are lucky in that they can take one third of Fab30 down and ramp to 300mm, which will mean that they will have enough capacity at 90nm without the rest of the Fab30. 1/3 gives them twice that or 2/3 of total shipments. The key is to make that happen REAL fast. Then they can take 1/3 and ramp both 45nm and 300mm wafers by 2008. The remaining 1/3 can then be ramped to 65nm 300mm by mid 2008.

Again the key for AMD right now is 300mm at Fab30 by the end of Q1.

I don't think so. From what I read before, now AMD is still ramping up Fab 36 for 65nm / 300mm fabrication from 90nm / 300mm fabrication. Then AMD will convert Fab 30 into Fab 38 (from 90nm / 200mm to 65nm / 300mm). At the same time, Fab 36 will be testing 45nm and that may be productive in mid-2008.


Isn't that what I said? Fab38 was said to be going 45nm first but only after it ramped 90nm with 300mm wafers. The idea of having more then one Fab
is to allow the two current processes. Right now thats' 90nm and 65nm. By the end of 2007 it will be 65nm and 45nm.

Why would they put the 45nm equipment in Fab36 first? That would segment the Fab WHILE it's ramping 65nm (total shipments won't reach 50% before Q307 at last word). Since 90nm is going away it's best to put 45nm there first.
 

ajfink

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The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.
If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

Your absolute disdain for AM2 is still saddening and ill-thought out. AM2 boards will work with AM2+ CPUs fine, I don't get your issues. Calling it knee-jerk is silly, seeing as AMD had no real reason to move to AM2 besides future upgradability and to prepare for future architectures / keep up with the dropping cost of DDR2. They weren't reacting to C2D yet as it hadn't even come out in force yet, and AMD never made grandiose performance claims about it prior to launch.

It is nice to see some of AMD's planning in Fab investment coming to fruition when they will need it most. Being able to supply Barcelona & co. in sufficient quantities will be huge for AMD whether or not it lives up to its pre-release AMD statements.
 

ajfink

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The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.
If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

Your absolute disdain for AM2 is still saddening and ill-thought out. AM2 boards will work with AM2+ CPUs fine, I don't get your issues. Calling it knee-jerk is silly, seeing as AMD had no real reason to move to AM2 besides future upgradability and to prepare for future architectures / keep up with the dropping cost of DDR2. They weren't reacting to C2D yet as it hadn't even come out in force yet, and AMD never made grandiose performance claims about it prior to launch.

It is nice to see some of AMD's planning in Fab investment coming to fruition when they will need it most. Being able to supply Barcelona & co. in sufficient quantities will be huge for AMD whether or not it lives up to its pre-release AMD statements.

wtf is wrong with you?do you selectively read or just translate into your fu*ked up way of thinking?
do you realize how focking dumb that sounded?
Ill thought out disdain?no reason to move to am2?you condemn and validate my point all at once.?

dewd stay in your own little world ;dont reply to me and i wont reply to you;friggen nutcase. :evil: :roll:

You are one arrogant tool with low reading comprehension. Is English your native language? If not, I'd understand more.
 

everett

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I agree, AM2 brought nothing to the table. DDR2 did nothing for anyone, the cost of a whole new rig (MB,AM2 cpu, and not to forget the over priced ddr2 ram) does not make it a worthy upgrade path imo. Again price/performance :wink:
 

sandmanwn

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First
AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket...
...am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip

Then
wed be lucky to see any competitive measure of performance with am2+ on an am2 mobo.

Make up your mind already. Its either a disaster or will not effect anything. You cant say both in the same topic and flame someone for calling you out. :roll:
 

ajfink

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First
AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket...
...am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip

Then
wed be lucky to see any competitive measure of performance with am2+ on an am2 mobo.

Make up your mind already. Its either a disaster or will not effect anything. You cant say both in the same topic and flame someone for calling you out. :roll:

by all means show how the statements are incongruent :roll:
hope you have done your reading ,both statements are factual.
am2 gained from ddr2 800 around 5% ,the htt3 in an am2 mobo will not work and I quote from sources you should already have read to pose your argument.
"performance will be sacrificed"

all facts.versus your position to support someone who began the flaming.

So you're saying that AMD has been lying for months when they've said AM2+ processors will work in AM2 motherboards? Nice of you to know better than AMD engineers and lawyers (who would sh*t a brick if AMD were pitching a statement so prominently and for so long knowing it's false).

HT3 will add bandwidth, but seeing as current HT1 base processors aren't even using all of that HT link speed, it won't matter than much. In a high-class server use, I'd say make sure you have an AM2+ board, but for even a number of enthusiasts, whatever motherboard they already have will. Be. Fine.
 

Scribs

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The Agena looks nice, But why all of socket changes.It still bugs me that they did away with 939's.
If you remember AM2 was to be AM3 compatible;with K8L introducing another versin of htt Am2+ was needed because the am2 boards are only capable of htt1 ,and AM3 will be ddr3 pcie2 as well as htt3.

suffice it to say AM2 was kneejerk garbage and will never be a competitive socket.Ever.They may have originally thought am2 could be outfitted for upgradeability.Well they have since found out like the rest of us,all am2 is is a repackaged 939 capable of choking the hell out of an am2+ chip.

When looking at it from the perspective of someone who already owned a S939 board/processor, of course AM2 looks redundant. When you look at it from other perspectives though it is not bad at all. Anyone who was coming to an AMD processor from something other than a S939 board, if they kept 939 until this summer, was buying into a dead end right before a new core. With changing the socket to AM2, it allows for any newcomers to the platform to be able to upgrade through the next generation of cores (with a performance hit for hypertransport 1 vs 2, etc), avoiding the need for a new motherboard. As far as I can tell, its really 6 in one and half a dozen in the other. Sure it didnt need to be changed and may have hurt older customers futureproofing somewhat, but at the same time it helped newer customers futureproofing.

Aside from the futureproofing it offers, I think a lot of the reasons lie in the fact that AMD is a company that makes stepped upgrades, not huge jumps like Intel. When Intel releases a new core, it is a big thing. A lot of the time it acompanies a new socket, chipset, manufacturing process, etc. AMD on the other hand takes things in baby steps to prevent and real big hiccups. I wouldnt be supprised if at least one reason behind moving to AM2 when they did is to get used to the new socket when you are not changing everything else, making it an easier transition technologywise. I know its not quite the same as AM2+, but I bet its pretty darn close.

On top of that kinda reason, I think there was also a decent market pressure from RAM manufacturers to move away from DDR to DDR2. Im going off memory here (pardon the pun) but I believe that as AM2 was coming in memory mfg's were saying how they wanted to push DDR2 and stop producing so much DDR memory. If you sit on S939 until this summer instead of support DDR2 when they did, there could very well be a backlash from memory producers or a shortage of DDR supply for the computers they are trying to push.

Just my two cents...

PS Im not an AMD fanboy, so please try to keep from saying it. My computer has a core 2 duo under the hood and I am quite pleased, but I still think that AMD's socket transitions have been a little misunderstood.
 

sandmanwn

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they are factual if stated correctly or have some point of reference. which you didnt provide.

AM2+(cpu's) in AM2(socket) is *speculated* to have zero effect for the desktop.

AM2+(cpu's) in AM2(socket) is *speculated* to have a larger effect in the high end server market where the hht link actually gets stressed.

Key word speculated as neither you or I have any real idea what the outcome of this is yet.


p.s. what exactly was the AM2 a knee jerk to anyway? it was a necessary move for AMD due to the on-chip memory controller. As I recall the Athlon was still in the lead at the release of AM2. Knee-jerk is appropriate when referring to QFX.
 

ajfink

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:wink: Is that you in the plaid shirt, and the flowing red locks?

P.S. sorry to the OP for getting off topic.

yup thats the dewd :wink:
@ ninja ajfink seems to want to be combative on this subject as a blind AMD supporter.And he repeatedly attacks my position in inflammatory ways.I would prefer he just pose his counter position and leave it at that;but his repeat preference is to say that my point of view is less than well thought out.

how much can a person take before he finally says enough?

that aside you are correct i should ignore his crap. :wink:

I'm not saying your viewpoint is not well thought-out, I'm saying it's wrong. Blind AMD supporter, cute. I also didn't drag this down into insults until you (on a previous occasion, as well) essentially said I don't know a thing about this subject when I very well do, sir.

I apologize for the insult I made to you earlier, it was hasty.
 

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