Having a Lower multiplier actually Better??

[Track]

Just something i was thinking about..

I know of all the hype abt the new E430 Core 2 Duo wich trumps the rest with it's 9x multiplier at only 160$.

But if u think about it, having a HIGHER multiplier means that ur FSB has to be LOWER. That means that if u wanted to get to 3.5Ghz on an E6300, the FSB would have to be 500Mhz. On the other hand, u could get to 3.5Ghz on an E4300/E6700 with an FSB of only 389Mhz.

Now that may seen like a Good thing, but the higher the FSB, the higher the performance.

The E6300 @ 3.5Ghz with a 500Mhz FSB is a lot better than the E4300 @ 3.5Ghz with a 389Mhz FSB.

Now you could get the E4300's FSB to 500Mhz aswell, but then the CPU clock speed will be 4.5Ghz, and that would be too hot. And wouldnt it be better to get to a 640Mhz FSB with a 7x multiplier? In theory.

So its the multiplier that is throwing off the overall PC performance if ur serious abt overclocking and have a motherboard that can reach 450Mhz or more. And its not like memory prices are higher, at higher clock speeds, as 667 and 800 are priced around the same.

Interesting isnt it?
It seems like a much better idea to buy an E6350 4MB and overclock the FSB to 500Mhz. That way u have 4MB of cache, 3.5Ghz CPU speed, and 500Mhz of interaction beetween the components.

This is indeed a wierd situation.

What do u think?

 

[pmr]

The performance is better due to the higher fsb, the problem is, can your mobo handle such a high fsb?
That's why a lower fsb with a higher multiplier is better. It doesn't stress so much the northbridge. So, if you mobo "only" goes to 500, you can achieve 4.5Ghz with a 9 multiplier (in theory)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Track]

Exactly! But thats where the heat issue comes into play.

You will never get to 4.5Ghz with air cooling, so if ur multiplier is 9x, u will have to revert back ur FSB so that ur CPU wont explode.

 

[djplanet]

Yeah, this explains why the X6800 has a stock multiplier of x11, so it will work with any Conroe mobo, no matter how cheap it is. If Intel simply increased the FSB, they would just be doing what every overclocker does.

 

[MikeGR7]

Yes you are right. Also the overall cost comes to minimum because lower multipliers means more ram freq= cost! Example: 4Ghz at 9X mult means you'll need 888mhz ram for 1:1 operation. 4Ghz at 8X mult means SURPRISE extra cost for 1000 Mhz capable ram It's all about price/performance!

 

[Track]

Yeh, but then whats the point of buying anything above the E6350?

 

[MikeGR7]

For the kind of people like: '' BIOS?! I bet it's better then LSD dudeeee!''. :lol:

 

[dasickninja]

The higher binned Conroes have higher multipliers and also a higher possible FSB.

 

[pmr]

-Already having a board that does'nt pass 300 fsb, like me
-Not want/knowing nothing about OC
-Cheap combo mobo/ram to spend more on cpu

 

[Crashman]

And wouldnt it be better to get to a 640Mhz FSB with a 7x multiplier? In theory.

Only if you have more money than brains. You'd need to run your RAM at DDR2-1280 in order to reach that speed.

You only need DDR2-667 to run 333 (FSB1333), that gets your 9x E4300 to 3.0GHz. Now, compare the price of DDR2-667 to higher speed RAM and see what's better. In practice.

 

[MikeGR7]

I also agree with pmr for the low fsb capable mobo :? Really 6350 will be a hell of value with the 6450 being in my next rig as 6600 replacement. If it comes out really fast.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1473741#1473741

 

[kwalker]

This performance gain is more in fsb clocks than bandwidth.
On almost all boards capable of 500+FSB when lowering the multiplier and raising the front side bus past 400MHz the chipset latency changes especially on the P5B deluxe.
You actually loose memory bandwidth and that is an overall performance decrease.
When you can raise the multiplier you achieve higher Frequency and maintain the memory bandwidth with the tighter latency of the Chipset.
The higher multiplier CPU will out perform the lower multiplier CPU clock for clock.

 

[Ninjaz7]

thanks for answering the question in laymans terms :lol: ...always liked snoopy as the red baron

 

[Track]

The higher multiplier CPU will out perform the lower multiplier CPU clock for clock.

http://www.techspot.com/review/40-core2-e4300-vs-e6300-overclocking/page2.html

Eat ur words!

 

[dasickninja]

Okay. I'll clock down my X6800 and test it against my 3060. Be right back.

 

[kwalker]

The higher multiplier CPU will out perform the lower multiplier CPU clock for clock.

http://www.techspot.com/review/40-core2-e4300-vs-e6300-overclocking/page2.html

Eat ur words!
Your opinion is fine with me.
But clock for clock the lower multiplier will not outperform the higher multiplier.

Ninja clock to 3600 at stock multiplier and post your sandra memory bandwidth and superPi 1meg.
I'll follow.

 

[sailer]

The higher multiplier CPU will out perform the lower multiplier CPU clock for clock.

http://www.techspot.com/review/40-core2-e4300-vs-e6300-overclocking/page2.html

Eat ur words!
Your opinion is fine with me.
But clock for clock the lower multiplier will not outperform the higher multiplier.

Ninja clock to 3600 at stock multiplier and post your sandra memory bandwidth and superPi 1meg.
I'll follow.

I know I've got an AMD cpu instead of an Intel, but my experience has been that if I raise the multiplier to 14, over the stock 13, I can maintain full ram frequency and then not have to raise the FSB as far to get similar clock speeds. Doing it that way, I've managed to get over 3 ghz while maintaining a ram frequency of 226 mhz, instead of cutting it down to 186 or even 166.

 

[dasickninja]

I'm back...

Specs:
Intel Xtreme X6800 @2.4GHz
GA-965P-DQ6
OCZ Gold DDR2 667 @ 4-4-4-12

Intel Xeon 3060 @2.4GHz
Intel 975XBX
OCZ Gold DDR2 667 @ 4-4-4-12

 

[kwalker]

The Intel chipset has its little quirks as seen below.
When you raise the FSB beyond 400 MHz on the P5B Deluxe the bandwidth drops.
Sure the increase in frequency makes up for this at the 9X multiplier but if the bandwidth drops then the lower multiplier CPU has to overcome this degraded performance.
An E6300 @ 3600 is no match for an E6600 @ 3600 because of this higher FSB increase .
The way to compensate for this of course is overclocking the memory and huge voltage increases to the Northbridge.
That is an entirely different subject and not for the average user
Memory bandwidth at 400FSB vs 420FSB

400 X 9 3600



420 X 9 3780MHz

 

[Track]

I'm back...

Specs:
Intel Xtreme X6800 @2.4GHz
GA-965P-DQ6
OCZ Gold DDR2 667 @ 4-4-4-12

Intel Xeon 3060 @2.4GHz
Intel 975XBX
OCZ Gold DDR2 667 @ 4-4-4-12

Whats the FSB/Multiplier???

 

[Track]

The Intel chipset has its little quirks as seen below.
When you raise the FSB beyond 400 MHz on the P5B Deluxe the bandwidth drops.
Sure the increase in frequency makes up for this at the 9X multiplier but if the bandwidth drops then the lower multiplier CPU has to overcome this degraded performance.
An E6300 @ 3600 is no match for an E6600 @ 3600 because of this higher FSB increase .
The way to compensate for this of course is overclocking the memory and huge voltage increases to the Northbridge.
That is an entirely different subject and not for the average user
Memory bandwidth at 400FSB vs 420FSB

400 X 9 3600



420 X 9 3780MHz

Hmmm...

Rasing the FSB......... makes the bandwidth drop. Yes, that makes sense! :roll:

 

[sailer]

Yeah, that seems to go along with my thinking, that using a higher multiplier allows the memory bandwidth to stay higher at a given clock overall speed.

 

[Crashman]

Yeh, his explaination ignors how the "steps" work when going from one boot strap to another. Bandwidth goes up with bus speed until you hit the next boot strap, then it drops a bit at that point, but starts climbing when you start going up again.

Bandwidth wise, it doesn't mean "don't go 400 or above", it really means there's a memory performance hole between speed A and B, such as between 399 and 430MHz. The hole is shaped like a saw tooth...and eventually you exceed the bandwidth available at 399.

 

[sunangel]

boot strap?

 

[kwalker]

The work around for the FSB straps is mostly an issue of being able to post.
The performance between multipliers was the point of discussion and not the chipset straps.
The CPU with the lower multiplier takes the greatest performance hit because of the so called straps and applies to all motherboards and all cpu's
But that is an entirely different subject.

After 400 FSB the bandwidth drops until about 420 then ramps backup until around 533.
This is on the P5B Deluxe and will not apply for all motherboards.

Like I said this is another subject. :?