Core 2 Duo 6300 System... can I overclock with this rig?

[momo_izzy]

I’ve been a computer user, computer gamer and I’d like to believe a computer enthusiast for most of my life. I’ve been reading THG off and on since around the time Intel was trying to shove RDRAM down our throats.

Although I’ve always been hesitant to try to overclock anything before, I’ve heard of amazing gains on the e6300 processors. Since I have one of those, I’ve decided to try it out.

Knowing the fastest way to damage my hardware would be to do this without researching and educating myself, I’ve been doing some casual researcher over the past few weeks. Today, I got my new motherboard and now that everything is installed and ready to go, I’d like to get some advice.

System Specs:
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Intel Core2Duo 6300 @ 1.86 GHz
2 x Kingston 1GB PC2-4200 [1024MB 240pin 128Mx64 Unbuffered Non-ECC DDR2-533 Timing CL4]
ATI Radeon x1950 Pro PCIe (256MB)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy SE PCI

From what I can see, my RAM is probably going to limit my gains, since all the stuff I’ve read uses much faster stuff.

I have a case with a lot of ventilations (front, back and sides). I also have an additional case fan inside. I don’t have any other cooling system.


My questions:

1) With the RAM I have, should I even bother attempting to overclock?
2) If I CAN get gains even with my current RAM, what kind of results could I expect as far as clock speed is concerned?
3) Does anyone know of a good site with overclocking information specifically geared towards my particular motherboard?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys may have!

 

[rquinn19]

I'm guessing u can get up to at least 2.3

 

[CompuTronix]

...I’ve heard of amazing gains on the e6300 processors...

Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Intel Core2Duo 6300 @ 1.86 GHz
2 x Kingston 1GB PC2-4200 DDR2-533 CL4...

...my RAM is probably going to limit my gains...

1) With the RAM I have, should I even bother attempting to overclock?
2) If I CAN get gains even with my current RAM, what kind of results could I expect as far as clock speed is concerned?
3) Does anyone know of a good site with overclocking information specifically geared towards my particular motherboard?

Check out wusy's C2D OC guide:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Core2Duo-Overclocking-Guide-v1-ftopict197995.html

I'm running your particular MB. At 2 Gb, your C4 RAM is good enough. Fortunately, you can overclock 533 C4 by increasing Vdimm, relaxing timings to 5-5-5-15, then reducing the ratio to 4:3. It'll have less than a 3% impact on RAM performance, as compared with 667 C5. Your E6300 is probably capable of up to 3.2 Ghz with some Vcore increase, however, you're going to be multiplier and FSB limited, so the stock cooler should also be OK.

Some P5W DH Deluxe boards are FSB limited at ~ 380 Mhz, so at 372 with a 7 multiplier, you can expect a minimum OC of 2.6, and 2.7 Ghz with 386. Typical is ~ 400 Mhz, which would give you 2.8 Ghz. The following link is to an excellent cooling mod, (in my sig), which will raise the FSB ceiling to ~ 425 Mhz, but that's about all you're going to get out of the 975 chipset. With a flash to the latest BIOS, and a good northbridge, you'll be stable with 428 Mhz FSB at 3.0 Ghz.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106563

My board is stable at 414 Mhz, which would give you 2.9 Ghz, but you'll probably need to increase Vmch to 1.65. I took the mod a step further by adding a 40mm fan to the northbridge heat sink to further reduce the temperatures, and enhance stability. The fan is a Cooler Master Blue Ice SLC-S41-U1, and is on the shelf at Comp USA for $10.00. Just discard the heat sink that's boxed with the fan, and use the supplied screws. It's a perfect fit, and the three wire plug will allow the motherboard to monitor the RPM.

Typical OC settings for the P5W DH / E6300 / 533 C4 platform would be:

2.8 Ghz
FSB 400 Mhz
DDR2 600 Mhz
Ratio 4:3
Timing 5-5-5-15
Vcore 1.4
Vdimm 2.2
Vmch 1.65
Vich 1.3
Vterm 1.2

Hope this helps out your OC. 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

Hi there, many thanks for taking the time to give me a detailed, helpful, informative reply.

With the resources and information you provided, I was able to successfully over clock my system pretty well.

I just want to provide some screenshots of the final results, so I can be rest assured that the temperatures and voltages are okay and that I won't have to worry about melting my system because I "did something wrong".

 

[CompuTronix]

I was able to successfully over clock my system pretty well.

I just want to provide some screenshots of the final results, so I can rest assured that the temperatures and voltages are okay...

Looks good. That's a very conservative OC, so you shouldn't encounter any stability issues. However, 1.344 Vcore seems more than is typical for 2.334 Ghz. Does it require that much, or perhaps you haven't quite found all the device stability thresholds, and need to fine tune? Intel's spec isn't exceeded until you increase Vcore above 1.3525, so there should still plenty of room to crank it up, if you like. 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

Allright, as recommened I went up to 2800 with this rig.

Seems to be running fine, however some games seem to lock up when they are loading certain zones. Sometimes it just crashs the game, other times it locks up the whole system.

Is this caused by the RAM? Should I just clock down until the problem dissapears?

 

[CompuTronix]

...I went up to 2800 with this rig.

Seems to be running fine, however some games seem to lock up when they are loading certain zones. Sometimes it just crashs the game, other times it locks up the whole system.

Is this caused by the RAM? Should I just clock down until the problem dissapears?

Lock ups are typical of insufficient Vcore. Are your new settings those from my previous post?

2.8 Ghz
FSB 400 Mhz
DDR2 600 Mhz
Ratio 4:3
Timing 5-5-5-15
Vcore 1.4
Vdimm 2.2
Vmch 1.65
Vich 1.3
Vterm 1.2

You may need to increase Vcore to 1.45 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

Hi, thank you again for your continued help!

Well, I've changed the Vcore to 1.4 now (but CPUz seems to think it's 1.7) and have provided some screenshots.

Are these CPU temperatures safe? I'm not really sure how high is too high.

Guess I'll find out during my gaming tommorow if this will stop the lock up.s.

 

[CompuTronix]

...I've changed the Vcore to 1.4 now (but CPUz seems to think it's 1.7) and have provided some screenshots.

I don't see any screenshots. CPU-Z doesn't always read voltages correctly. Download and install SpeedFan 4.31 or Beta 4.32:

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Are these CPU temperatures safe? I'm not really sure how high is too high.

Guess I'll find out during my gaming tommorow if this will stop the lock up.s.

I don't see your temps, however, for information regarding appropriate temperatures, read the following:

Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide

Hope this helps. 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

Sorry, forgot to attach the screen shot. Thanks again for the very informative link, now I know what temps to look for.

As far as the stability issue goes however, I still seem to be stuck.

I've gradually increased all the way to 1.45 but I still get the lock ups. I'm wondering, could it have anything to do with other voltage settings, like the ones for the RAM etc?

Sorry, as I've stated I'm fairly new to this and although I definitely don't mind doing a lot of trial and error for such a large gain I seldom know what to trial and error, so your posts continue to be a great source of information.

 

[CompuTronix]

Next to Vcore, the most important voltage is Vmch. At 400 Mhz you need 1.65. What BIOS release are you running, and what are your settings from this format:

2.8 Ghz
FSB 400 Mhz
DDR2 600 Mhz
Ratio 4:3
Timing 5-5-5-15
Vcore 1.4
Vdimm 2.2
Vmch 1.65
Vich 1.3
Vterm 1.2

Comp 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

2.8 Ghz
FSB 400 Mhz
DDR2 600 Mhz
Ratio ??? I don't know where to change this
Timing Auto by SPD (as suggested for my board in the guide you linked. I tried 5-5-5-15-5 but it would not get far in memtest and windows would lock up shortly after boot)
Vcore 1.45
Vdimm 2.2
Vmch 1.65
Vich 1.2 ( on my board, I only get 3 options... auto, a lower setting and 1.2)
Vterm ??? I don't know were to change this

As for my BIOS, it has not yet been flashed, I'm running revision 1305.

Here are screenshots during a Prime95 torture test.

 

[CompuTronix]

DDR2 600 Mhz
Ratio ??? I don't know where to change this
Timing Auto by SPD (as suggested for my board in the guide you linked. I tried 5-5-5-15-5 but it would not get far in memtest and windows would lock up shortly after boot)
Vcore 1.45
Vdimm 2.2
Vmch 1.65
Vich 1.2 ( on my board, I only get 3 options... auto, a lower setting and 1.2)
Vterm ??? I don't know were to change this

As for my BIOS, it has not yet been flashed, I'm running revision 1305.

Under "JumperFree Configuration"...

Ratio is changed by "DRAM Frequency" - if you look at CPU-Z under the "Memory" tab, you can see the ratio and timings. Bank Cycle Time (Trc) is shown as 1 clock, which is not even close. With those timings, Trc should be around 22 ~ 24.

* If you have Everest, check it again, or look at it in BIOS.

Vterm is changed by "FSB Termination Voltage".

* Try 1.3 first, which may be the key to attaining stability.

Refer back to wusy's OC Guide. Also, don't feel squeamish about bumping up Vcore to 1.5. You need to find the stability threshold, before you can determine how much you can afford to back off on which settings, or if you need to downclock for stability.

* You may quickly become Vcore / temperature limited with the stock CPU cooler.

Don't forget this item can also be the stability issue: "Some P5W DH Deluxe boards are FSB limited at ~ 380 Mhz...Typical is ~ 400 Mhz...The following link is to an excellent cooling mod, (in my sig), which will raise the FSB ceiling... "

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=106563

* Have you done anything with the decorative, but heat dissipating inhibitive chipset covers?

"My board is stable at 414 Mhz... I took the mod a step further by adding a 40mm fan to the northbridge heat sink to further reduce the temperatures, and enhance stability. The fan is a Cooler Master Blue Ice SLC-S41-U1, and is on the shelf at Comp USA for $10.00. Just discard the heat sink that's boxed with the fan, and use the supplied screws. It's a perfect fit, and the three wire plug will allow the motherboard to monitor the RPM."

Also, I'm running 1305, purposely. I've flashed to all the newer releases, and ended up flashing right back to 1305 due to "stack overflow" errors when booting to a DOS floppy or CD, which I use frequently to run backup "clones" using Norton Ghost, and is an absolute necessity. My rig has been totally stable with 1305, so it may be a non-issue.

You made a big jump straight to 2.8 Ghz / 400 Mhz FSB. Overclocking is best accomplished in small increments from the bottom up, but hang in there...we have plenty of cards up our sleeves. Give her a try and let me know how it goes.

Comp 8)

 

[woollyjl]

I don't have the Asus board so I can't tell you exactly how to do this but:

In last screen shot I see your bank cycle timing at 1t Change it to 2t
I personally would lower my Vcore to about 1.38 to lower those temps a touch. 65/67 is high, Intel recommends 61max.

With these 2 last tweeks I believe you will be stable

Hope this helps!

 

[CompuTronix]

65/67 is high, Intel recommends 61max.

Not quite so. Please read the following topic to understand how Intel's 2 seperate thermal specs interact:

Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide

Hope this helps. 8)

 

[woollyjl]

65/67 is high, Intel recommends 61max.

Not quite so. Please read the following topic to understand how Intel's 2 seperate thermal specs interact:

Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide

Hope this helps. 8)

Ok I'm only gonna do this once

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL9SA

If you then click on the link beside the MAX temp rating it reads as follows:
Thermal Specification: The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader. For processors without integrated heat spreaders such as mobile processors, the thermal specification is referred to as the junction temperature (Tj). The maximum junction temperature is defined by an activation of the processor Intel® Thermal Monitor. The Intel Thermal Monitor’s automatic mode is used to indicate that the maximum TJ has been reached.

I don't care what ever else it says about Tj because.. IT doesn't apply to a desktop processor, it only pertains to a MOBILE processor that doesn't have a "case" or integrated heat spreader.

TaT measures temp at the geometric center on the topside of the processor heatspreader

I have read that guide. I have researched this numerous times. You are misreading all the info and making it complicated when its actually extremely simple.

This is my opinion you can agree with me or not, I don't care. If I give advice I'm going to give MY OPINION from the documents I have available to me.

 

[CompuTronix]

TaT measures temp at the geometric center on the topside of the processor heatspreader

Not quite so. TAT measures each individual TM1 sensor imbedded within each individual core, neither of which is located at the geometric center on the topside of the processor heatspreader.

Hope this helps. 8)

 

[momo_izzy]

Well, over the past few days I've tried a lot of different settings. I've taken Vcore all the way up to 1.5, the system is stable during everything else, but still gives me problems during this game.

I've tried the Vterm at 1.3, and it didn't seem to make much difference at all. I'm sure the lockups are due to RAM, since they only seem to occur during "zoning" or heavy loading areas.

Also, I'm STILL unable / uncertain how to change Vich to 1.3, my board options only give me up to 1.2

 

[momo_izzy]

I don't have the Asus board so I can't tell you exactly how to do this but:

In last screen shot I see your bank cycle timing at 1t Change it to 2t
I personally would lower my Vcore to about 1.38 to lower those temps a touch. 65/67 is high, Intel recommends 61max.

With these 2 last tweeks I believe you will be stable

Hope this helps!

I'd love to try to change this to 2t but I have no idea how to do it on my board. I've looked around in the BIOS to no avail. Any help from someone would be greatly appreciated.

 

[CompuTronix]

woollyjl wrote:

I don't have the Asus board so I can't tell you exactly how to do this but:

In last screen shot I see your bank cycle timing at 1t Change it to 2t
I personally would lower my Vcore to about 1.38 to lower those temps a touch. 65/67 is high, Intel recommends 61max.

With these 2 last tweeks I believe you will be stable...

I do have your board, and woollyjl is incorrect in this instance, regarding timing and temperatures.

I'd love to try to change this to 2t but I have no idea how to do it on my board. I've looked around in the BIOS to no avail. Any help from someone would be greatly appreciated.

Under "JumperFree Configuration"...

Ratio is changed by "DRAM Frequency" - if you look at CPU-Z under the "Memory" tab, you can see the ratio and timings. Bank Cycle Time (Trc) is shown as 1 clock, which is not even close. With your timings, Trc should be around 22 ~ 24. If you look in BIOS under "Chipset" then "Advanced Chipset Settings" and "Configure DRAM Timing by SPD" you'll see that even when set to [Disabled], you won't find a selection for either Bank Cycle Time (Trc), or Command Rate.

Command Rate is motherboard / memory module dependent, and can be either 1T or 2T. Bank Cycle Time can not be 1T or 2T. Bank Cycle default values can be seen Under CPU-Z's "SPD" tab. Apparently CPU-Z isn't reading your memory correctly, as shown under the "Memory" tab. Try running Everest to confirm the Trc value.

Also, your CPU Core Temps are not high at 65/67, they're at the upper end of the normal range, not to be confused with CPU Case temp, (not computer case temp), which reaches the upper end of the normal range at 50c:

Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide

Hope this helps. 8)