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'Intel Pentium Dual Core T2060', What is it?

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January 29, 2007 3:52:20 PM

Intel has come out with a new value/performance oem notebook processor. It is featured on the front page of many sunday newspaper inserts in preorder Vista laptops. The trouble is that there is no information about it on the Intel web page, no reviews on the web, and the Intel retail sales support guy who was nice to help me could only find the basic information.

It runs at 1.6Ghz with a 533Mhz fsb and has a 1MB L2 Cache.

The naming of this processor is extremely confusing:

It is a dual core mobile processor but it doesnt use the Duo name.

It is a value processor with a reduced L2 cache but it doesnt use the Celeron name.

It uses the Pentium name, but a duo-like numbering scheme, as the T2050 is a Core Duo with 1.6Ghz, 533Mhz fsb, and 2MB L2 cache.

I think it is based on Core Duo architecture but I am just guessing. Maybe it is a crippled Core 2 Duo or some weird Pentium Dual Core for desktops.

The questions are:

Does it have the full power saving features of a Core Duo or is speedstep disabled, etc?

Is it just basically a T2050 with less cache or are there other important differences? Is it even Core Duo architecture?

Does it have other features disabled to slow it down, like a Celeron? Or to limit future memory upgrades etc.

Is there any reason to believe that if I choose to configure a notebook with this processor, I could not upgrade to a Core 2 Duo later, like does it have dramatically different power requirements etc where they might put in a totally different Mobo to support it in the same model laptop?

I dont like it how Intel has mass released this processor and set it up as probably the top selling mobile processor for the Vista release day without mentioning this processor or even its family or naming scheme on their website.
January 29, 2007 4:50:54 PM

I called HP and they have no idea what this processor is that they are selling either.

The sales guy noted that it seems to have replaced the Core Solo in their selection options.

I am sort of worried too that this could be some kind of adapted desktop processor or a processor manufactured at some plant that cannot technically produce the current Core Duos and Core 2 Duos, though I do not know how that issue works. Maybe it runs hotter and/or is based on a higher nm technology? Maybe Intel just somehow found a way to switch capacities to get more dual core notebook processors to fill demand and is nervous about this product and therefore releasing few details.

I know most of you are more into what is the fastest and how to overclock it, but I dont have the expertise to solve this mystery and I dont like it that a new processor quasi-family can be introduced with no press release and no full specs available.

Is Intel perhaps planning to replace the Celeron name with the Pentium name, since the Pentium name has more value and the Duo / Quad names have replaced Pentium at the top?
Related resources
January 29, 2007 6:11:34 PM

Except there is no source listed, two parts are incorrect (the Core Duo name and the L2 cache size), and lots of specs are left blank.

The T2060 is consistently referred to as Pentium Dual Core not Core Duo in sunday ads, hp shopping, circuitcity.com, etc.

Specifications like 1MB L2 cache fairly consistently, wikipedia has 2MB listed. It seems that wikipedia just copied the T2050 specs and left some unknowns blank, but worse, they list it as a Core Duo brand name, which it is not. That throws all the Core Duo standard features into question.

Look at this link for a Circuit City laptop

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Specifications-of-Gatewa...

They have it listed as 667Mhz fsb and 2MB L2 cache in highlights and 533Mhz fsb and 1MB L2 cache in specifications.

There seems to be no public information on what this chip really is.

Another question is whether this supports 64 bit. It could be an equivalent of some other chip with 64bit disabled and a smaller cache.
January 29, 2007 9:48:49 PM

My bet is that somebody along the advertising agency line screwed up and it got passed down all the way to the retail level. Happens all the time. Most agency types wouldn't know a Pentium from a Pizza. T2060 is not a nomenclature for any Pentium product I've ever heard of. It's a C2D name.
January 30, 2007 12:31:43 AM

Found this:
Quote:
The T2050 is from the Intel Core Duo Family and as pointed out has the following Specs: 1.60Ghz/2MB L2/533FSB. The T2060 is a new Processor midway between a Celeron and a Core Duo. It is called the Pentium Dual Core T2060, it is lower spec'd than the Core Duo and it runs hotter. It is almost akin to having a turbocharged Celeron.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqaZBQZTJLMEf.msMKSDNPIjzKIX?qid=20070123222050AAx4340

So, if this is correct, then it is definately, maybe, not really a Pentium, probably. :? :p 
January 30, 2007 1:04:23 AM

Even if it is based on Core Duo architecture, it would still be nice to know if they disabled half the instruction set and made it run at full wattage all the time on battery. On the other hand, it could be a T2050 with less cache but better in other ways, perhaps using less power, supporting virtualization, etc. There is a big difference between those two scenarios for me.

Also, I am thinking of getting this processor for my sister in a Compaq V6000T. Does anyone know if these processors sit in a socket with a lever and can be upgraded later to other processors offered on this notebook, like a Core 2 Duo. I would be more ok with taking the jump on this unknown processor if an eventual upgrade were possible. The Hpshopping sales guy acted like it is soldered in, but I am not sure if he really knows.
January 30, 2007 12:46:04 PM

I doubt that it's soldered in (although with HP, you can never be sure), and it should be a socket M chip, so a C2D mobile chip should be a drop-in. The chipset should support an upgrade (but, again, HP might have a custom BIOS/chipset, so you can't be sure).

There just isn't enough reliable information yet to give any kind of definative answer.

For what it's worth (not sure how accurate - I don't always trust Wiki) it's listed here (as neokill3r posted earlier):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_microprocessors
January 30, 2007 2:54:48 PM

Quote:
Damn!!!!

IT IS A PENTIUM!!!

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070130PD214.html

What in the name of **** is Intel doing bringing back the Pentium name?

Are they taking marketing lessons from the wizards at AMD? :?


:?
You'd think they would name it after pasta instead. Orzo 2060 sounds pretty good. Or maybe the Couscous 1000. :wink:
January 30, 2007 3:08:05 PM

Ummm... no - the _T_2060 is not a Pentium... The E2000 is.
The first char being T indicates this will be a mobile Core (x) Duo... probably a slightly better follow-on to the 2050, which is a very low-end Core Duo out there currently. (First char of E indicates desktop)

And don't get caught up in the circuit city and other advertisements... honestly, they typically get many parts of the spec wrong, or simply leave them out just b/c they have no clue... it's not technical people that write those, it's advertisers... thus you can see a "Pentium Core Quaddro" if you search around enough :) 
January 30, 2007 3:43:21 PM

According to the model number it should be a core duo. It looks like it just like the T2050 but with VT enabled and only 1mb of cache. They probably just call it a pentium to make it sell better because pentiums are now low end and since theres no c2d celeron yet they need more low end moible cpus
.
January 30, 2007 4:26:32 PM

This is the part number

LF80539GE0251M

Does that help?

Only difference is T2050 ends in 252M. Maybe the 1/2 is the L2 cache.

But I dont know if other Celeron type modifications like speedstep disabling would be in this model number.
February 3, 2007 11:49:04 PM

Quote:
Found this:
The T2050 is from the Intel Core Duo Family and as pointed out has the following Specs: 1.60Ghz/2MB L2/533FSB. The T2060 is a new Processor midway between a Celeron and a Core Duo. It is called the Pentium Dual Core T2060, it is lower spec'd than the Core Duo and it runs hotter. It is almost akin to having a turbocharged Celeron.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqaZBQZTJLMEf.msMKSDNPIjzKIX?qid=20070123222050AAx4340

So, if this is correct, then it is definately, maybe, not really a Pentium, probably. :? :p 
that smells like a weaker pentium 4 and renamed as "pentium dual core"

sort of AMD did to their amd athlon XP ( now Sempron )
February 4, 2007 12:09:50 AM

According to bytes link above, Intel finally added it to the charts. Looks like a T2050 with half the cache. I wonder if Intel had some bad yields on the T2050 and disabled some of the cache. Since all of the Core Duos have 2MB of L2, and the Pentium M's have only one core - I'm wondering if Intel invented the "Pentium dual-core" name to distinguish it - since it belongs in neither category.
February 4, 2007 1:13:17 PM

yes, it is indeed cut-down version of T2060, half-cache, lower bus speed!, maybe for value segment notebooks.
February 4, 2007 4:10:09 PM

I am glad it has speedstep. Regardless of the speed issues, I think it should have as good or better battery performance than the T2050 so that is nice. So far, it appears the smaller cache is the only difference versus the T2050. Hopefully there are no instructions disabled that would not show up in the chart.
February 5, 2007 7:04:25 AM

Quote:
According to bytes link above, Intel finally added it to the charts. Looks like a T2050 with half the cache. I wonder if Intel had some bad yields on the T2050 and disabled some of the cache. Since all of the Core Duos have 2MB of L2, and the Pentium M's have only one core - I'm wondering if Intel invented the "Pentium dual-core" name to distinguish it - since it belongs in neither category.


Yeah, I think you're spot on about the bad yields. They had to do something with the chips so they dusted off the old Pentium name. BAD MARKETING MANEOUVER!!!! SHAME ON YOU INTEL!!!! Couldn't you have called it something else? But then again, their current naming structure was developed by a ferret on hash.
February 9, 2007 3:58:59 AM

How does a bad yield result in exactly half of the cache being missing? Would anything else be wrong with the chip? I guess one day someone can get ahold of these chips and see if all the cache is really there or not.
February 9, 2007 5:33:19 PM

Quote:
How does a bad yield result in exactly half of the cache being missing? Would anything else be wrong with the chip? I guess one day someone can get ahold of these chips and see if all the cache is really there or not.


The L2 is probably in 2 - 1MB banks, so if ther is a defect within either bank - Intel could just "turn it off". I doubt anything else is wrong as Intel (and AMD) have very high and reliable quality testing.

Note: This is all speculation about having bad yields, but it does make sense. Even a higher-end Core Duo with an imperfect cache bank could be "downgraded" to a T2060 - again, just speculating.

@CaptRobertApril -> I'm not sure that going with a Pentium name is really a bad idea. Considering that this chip is going primarily for the budget (non-entusiast) market - I think the Pentium name is stronger in peoples minds than Core Duo.
February 16, 2007 11:24:27 AM

maybe it could be of help..

[..] Despite the resurrection of the Pentium naming, it seams that the "Pentium Dual Core T2060" is little more than a budget Core Duo T2050 with half the L2 cache (the T2050 has 2MB). Performance is estimated to be less than that of the T2050, and on par with the AMD Turion X2 TL-50 (1.6GHz/2x256kb L2).[...]

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3484

If the author's belief is true, what would you suggest to buy between a "Pentium Dual Core T2060" and a "AMD Turion X2 TL-50"?

It is known that AMD mobile CPUs perform worse than Intel Core Duos and C2Ds, but will be this true even with brand new Intel chip?
February 21, 2007 6:25:39 PM

Like people, one is known by the company one keeps.

In this case I've observed that all the laptops using the T2060 for which I've read their specifications, are configured with Intel's 943GML Express Chipset. This is what Intel says about this chipset: "
The Mobile Intel® 943GML Express Chipset is optimized for the Intel® Celeron® M processors and the Intel® Celeron® M ULV processors. The Mobile Intel® 943GML Express Chipset delivers enhanced performance for value based notebook platforms to meet the needs of present and future notebook graphics and OS usage models."
(http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mobile/945_fam.htm)

Also when compared with the 945GM express chipset that is used with Centrino duo technology it states that the 943GML supports up to 2GB of system memory. (http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/showchart.aspx?mmID...). Yet the laptops with the T2060 specify that they support up to 4GB of system memory. This I don't understand.
March 1, 2007 9:06:45 PM

Hopefully this puts everyones thoughts to rest. I have one of these processors, and am posting the CPU-Z ID screen.

I would assume that this is a bad yield chip from Intel as well. No means a bad chip to use, they will make sure it passes ALL tests, it simply must have like one person said, bad 1MB L2 Cache.

CPU-Z IDed my T2060 (Toshiba A135-S2286), as a T2050, with only 1MB of L2 Cache.

March 4, 2007 1:31:14 PM

Thanks toxigenicpoem. How well does it perform?
March 5, 2007 4:54:20 PM

Quote:
Thanks toxigenicpoem. How well does it perform?


Performance is on par with a Dothan 2.0 Ghz.

I just got the *el cheapo* ($600 after rebate - not too shabby) Acer Aspire from CompUSA last week with this same processor.

Couple things to clear up. I've updated the drivers with the latest versions directly from their respective sites. The new Intel Chipset Drivers, once installed, report the Chipset as 945 GM Express - *not* the 943 GM Express as "advertised" in the flyers and other sites. If you're wondering - yes it reported as 943GM Express prior to the installation of the updated drivers.

With regards to the Dothan vs. T2060 comparison - while the T2060 performs on par with the Dothan (the Dothan test machine is my work laptop that was purchased about 2-3 years ago for around $3k) - it should be noted that that's on a *single* thread:

- Both machines turn in times ~42-45 seconds for a 1M Super PI run (on a single thread).
- The Dothan is maxed out CPU wise (100%) - the T2060 hovers around 40%-50% utilization for both cores.

Which leads to the next step - multithreaded testing - which is where the T2060 shines:

- When running Super PI in multiple threads - (i.e. 2 instances) - the Dothan again maxes out @ 100% CPU utilization.
- The T2060 gets up to ~85%-90% CPU utilization on both cores - but never maxes out.
- Running 2 threads at once on the Dothan (1M) takes considerably longer (~1m30s for each thread to complete) vs. the same original length of time on the T2060 (~45s for each thread to complete).

Needless to say - it's rather impressive that I'm able to get a "bargain" laptop today for 1/5th of the price of a "top of the line" laptop I bought on the company's dime 2-3 years ago, and the bargain notebook outperforms it by almost 2-1 on raw CPU calculations.

One other note, I also came close to purchasing a different bargain laptop for around $200-$300 more - which would put me into a T2250 or T2300 - but the marginal difference in the benchmarks (about 1-2 seconds from what I've seen reported on the web) isn't worth it IMHO for your *basic* laptop with regards to browsing / document editing, etc.

OSes in use: bargain book has Vista Ultimate, Dothan has XP Pro.

With regards to application performance - the Vista SuperFetch service makes a noticeable difference. Overall, side-by-side with my Dothan - I'd estimate that starting an application on the Acer is probably, on occasion, a little slower (around 1-2 seconds) depending on the application being loaded. (IE7 loads in the same time - but it appears to be much more *responsive* on the Acer vs. the Dothan - I'm guessing to the possibility that the multithreaded requests in IE are serviced much faster than the Dothan).

However, when closing / re-opening after a few minutes - the SuperFetch makes a huge performance impact where it's loaded nearly instantly, whereas the Dothan has to reload again. I'll be using the $200 I saved on the processor upgrade to upgrade my RAM instead.. :) 

Long story short, it's a bargain-level CPU by today's standards - that performs admirably, especially when compared to older "high-end" technology. When compared to other *newer* technology i.e. Core 2 Duo, etc. it's even more of a bargain considering the fact that, unless you need a CPU for heavy-duty calculations / gaming - then it's certainly worth taking a look at for the price point it comes in at, especially considering that by this time next year - I'll probably be able to upgrade to a "high-end" Core 2 Duo by today's standards for the same price I just paid for this new laptop today.
March 5, 2007 5:07:35 PM

Thank you very much. You couldn't have provided a more complete answer to my question.
March 5, 2007 7:52:00 PM

As quoted earlier intel lists the 943gml express chipset for use with celeron M processors, but the T2060 appears to be a pentium dual-core processor. If the chipset updated to the 945gm then it should be able to have some great future upgradeable options (i.e. the Core 2 Duo line). I am wondering if this system has always had a 945 chipset but loaded with the wrong driver.

Or am I way off on this?

I'd love to get this laptop, but I like to buy systems that can be upgraded in the future.

Any comments appreciated
March 5, 2007 11:14:16 PM

This is the Information report from the Information tab from the Intel GMA driver info screen:

Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator Driver for Mobile Report


Report Date: 03/05/2007
Report Time[hr:mm:ss]: 20:00:55
Driver Version: 7.14.10.1187
Operating System: * , (6.0.6000)
Default Language: English
DirectX* Version: 10.0
Physical Memory: 1013 MB
Minimum Graphics Memory: 8 MB
Maximum Graphics Memory: 224 MB
Graphics Memory in Use: 79 MB
Processor: x86 family 6 Model 14 Stepping 12
Processor Speed: 1595 MHZ
Vendor ID: 8086
Device ID: 27A2
Device Revision: 03


* Accelerator Information *

Accelerator in Use: Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset Family
Video BIOS: 1377
Current Graphics Mode: 1280 by 800 True Color (60 Hz)



* Devices Connected to the Graphics Accelerator *


Active Notebook Displays: 1


* Notebook *

Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Display Type: Digital
Gamma Value: 2.20
DDC2 Protocol: Supported
Maximum Image Size: Horizontal: Not Available
Vertical: Not Available
Monitor Supported Modes:
1280 by 800 (60 Hz)
Display Power Management Support:
Standby Mode: Not Supported
Suspend Mode: Not Supported
Active Off Mode: Not Supported

* Other names and brands are the property of their respective owners.


I don't know how to post images to this site - otherwise I'd post an image of it... :) 

Either way - it's reporting as a 945 GM Express Chipset - which, to my understanding, is upgradeable.

[/img]
March 5, 2007 11:33:59 PM

Yes. Check out the specs on this HP mini PC. Link
March 6, 2007 1:51:04 PM

Of course, I missed the sale. Sold Out! I went to purchase it this morning online and they are all out. They closed our store here in Grand Rapids last week and the closest store with one in stock is over 250 miles away. At least one deal seems to follow another, and one like this will probably show back up in some shape or form. Next time I promise not to procrastinate.

Update: Well, I kept on looking and the CompUSA in Lansing had three in stock this morning. I happen to be heading there this weekend so I purchased it over the phone. Looking forward to finally having a laptop.

BP
March 9, 2007 1:04:47 AM

Hey--wow thanks guys for the info on the t2060, was confused on this processor as well, but not so confused that I didn't know immediately to snag up an acer AS5610-2273 at best buy--they currently have more in stock online too (were sold out online yesterday) For $599 and no silly rebates.. this HAS to be currently the best deal on a laptop anywhere. I was curious though, at compgeeks they have an acer with a sempron 3400+ and radeon xpress 1100 graphics for just $50 more (all other goodies the same, expect only 512ram instead of 1GB ) which is better? Factor OUT tax and factor IN shipping + another hunk of ram, looking at $100 more is it worth it?
March 9, 2007 1:14:38 PM

I would choose the ATI over the 950, BUT the 950 is not a bad card.

The processors a little sticky. Not only are you comparing AMD to Intel. AMD has always failed in providing the highest quality mobile chips. But this entails heat, power, and other efficiency ratings.

Next you are going to be comparing Dual Core vs Single Core. The 3400+ will most likely be faster in single threaded situations. However there is much debate to what this load means on the processor, since in essence you will have 1.6Ghz running windows/system overhead, and 1.6Ghz running your game. If you like to multi-task (burn cds, listen to music, surf the web, chat) all at the same time, T2060 is for you.

However :)  Since both graphics cards are integrated, I'm assuming gaming is not going to be a big deal, casual play ok on either, I would again go with the T2060. Its 1.6Ghz core will be more than enough to play medium on games in the last 3 years. Newer games will run, both video chips are 9.0 compliant, but neither are power horses to accomplish ether polygon count, or shader 2.0 speed of budget desktop cards.

I vote T2060. The extra $100 will most likely not yield better results.
March 22, 2007 10:08:50 AM

I just found out that Intel builds the T2060 as a shelf version or an OEM version, the shelf version only has 1MB of L2 Cache, 533Mhz FSB, and the OEM version built for whom ever ask for it is built with 2MB of L2 cache, it has dual cores, it either uses 512 MB for each core giving it a 1MB total of cache, or the OEM version has 1MB per core giving it 2MB total, this was told to me from Gateway, they called Intel to give me the specs before I made my decision and completed my order. I ordered a new Gateway NX570X notebook, I was very confused about where the 2MB came into the specs of the T2060, so I spent 5 days verifying what my order would come with and the specs on the processor. They do have the T2060 on the Intel website now, you just have to look under the pentium section, it is a dual core not a duo core.

The T5200 is a little different, it has 2MB of L2 Cache used simultaneously by both cores, so which one would be better, has yet to be seen, I went with the T5200 in my new notebook, for a $159.00 extra for the upgrade, I hope I made te right choice.

Hope this helps decipher this new chip.

Jrduck1
March 22, 2007 10:09:08 AM

I just found out that Intel builds the T2060 as a shelf version or an OEM version, the shelf version only has 1MB of L2 Cache, 533Mhz FSB, and the OEM version built for whom ever ask for it is built with 2MB of L2 cache, it has dual cores, it either uses 512 MB for each core giving it a 1MB total of cache, or the OEM version has 1MB per core giving it 2MB total, this was told to me from Gateway, they called Intel to give me the specs before I made my decision and completed my order. I ordered a new Gateway NX570X notebook, I was very confused about where the 2MB came into the specs of the T2060, so I spent 5 days verifying what my order would come with and the specs on the processor. They do have the T2060 on the Intel website now, you just have to look under the pentium section, it is a dual core not a duo core.

The T5200 is a little different, it has 2MB of L2 Cache used simultaneously by both cores, so which one would be better, has yet to be seen, I went with the T5200 in my new notebook, for a $159.00 extra for the upgrade, I hope I made te right choice. The T5200 shares one lump sum of cache, while the T2060 only uses half the advertised cache per core, 512 MB per core= 1MB for the shelf version and 1 MB per core =2MB for the OEM version, which I seen in a Toshiba also, so it must be OEM to which ever notebook manufacturer wants to put it in their machines and they use the shelf version in their retail notebooks, like Best Buy, etc.

Hope this helps decipher this new chip.



Jrduck1
March 22, 2007 12:25:03 PM

Actually the Intel Core Duo chips, don't have a seperated cache, it is not two processors simply slapped together, they share the full cache between both cores.
March 23, 2007 9:55:52 AM

The T2060 is on Intel's web site now, but doesn't have alot of info about it, it's under the pentium section, It wasn't there as of a week ago, but I called Gateway to order a new notebook and had alot of questions about the T2060 processor also and none of the techs or sales people could answer my questions, so my sales lady called Intel and got the break down, there are 2 different versions of the T2060 that I am aware of so far, I will try to find more info and post it when I'm sure of the results of my search. I upgraded to the T5200 because I was leary of the T2060, at least Gateway will upgrade me to a better processor later if I don't like the T5200 for the price of the CPU with no labor cost. But shipping does incure. Will let you know how the T5200 does, will run the test when I get it.
March 23, 2007 6:00:30 PM

Thats a little apples to oranges, considering the T5200 is a T2050 with 64 bit extensions.
April 2, 2007 6:34:32 PM

Intel T2060:
Architecture 65nm
1MB L2 Cache
1.60Ghz
533 Mhz FSB
2 cores
NO intel virtualization technology
NO Hyper-threading
YES enhanced Speedstep technology
NO Intel 64 technology
YES execute disable
=D
!