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AMD next gen processors

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January 29, 2007 5:57:52 PM

I know AMD is suppose to be releasing something new this year to try and out do what Intel has to offer at the moment, my question is what socket will it use? I believe the socket the AMD 64 X2's use right now is AM2...will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?

More about : amd gen processors

January 29, 2007 6:05:30 PM

Quote:
what socket will it use?
Both Socket F and Socket AM2 and AM2+, Socket F products hit first For K8L.

Quote:
Will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?
Yes, they will use AM2 Sockets but they will be made for AM2+ Sockets, you will be able to drop in AM2+ Processors into AM2 board but will lack the updates provided in the AM2+ socket- Hyper transport 3. etc..
January 29, 2007 6:05:49 PM

They will be compatible but you won't get some bonuses from the socket AM2+ boards
Related resources
January 29, 2007 6:14:36 PM

Quote:
what socket will it use?
Both Socket F and Socket AM2 and AM2+, Socket F products hit first For K8L.

Quote:
Will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?
Yes, they will use AM2 Sockets but they will be made for AM2+ Sockets, you will be able to drop in AM2+ Processors into AM2 board but will lack the updates provided in the AM2+ socket- Hyper transport 3. etc..

Not to start a flaming war, but does this strategy really make any sense. First you shell out $500 or so for a processor and you fit it into an existing AM2 motherboard that costs maybe $80 just to get some of the best features disabled. Sure, it provides an upgrade path for the people that already have an AM2 motherboard, but given the fact that the motherboard represents about 15% of the cost of the CPU, who cares?
January 29, 2007 6:38:06 PM

Quote:
what socket will it use?
Both Socket F and Socket AM2 and AM2+, Socket F products hit first For K8L.

Quote:
Will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?
Yes, they will use AM2 Sockets but they will be made for AM2+ Sockets, you will be able to drop in AM2+ Processors into AM2 board but will lack the updates provided in the AM2+ socket- Hyper transport 3. etc..

Not to start a flaming war, but does this strategy really make any sense. First you shell out $500 or so for a processor and you fit it into an existing AM2 motherboard that costs maybe $80 just to get some of the best features disabled. Sure, it provides an upgrade path for the people that already have an AM2 motherboard, but given the fact that the motherboard represents about 15% of the cost of the CPU, who cares?

Remember Rob, the segment we represent is the only ones who understand this Difference. People who will buy the K8L(most) will buy the AM2+ socket pre-built System or just buy a AM2+ Motherboard with it. But for the suckers who are buying AM2 and will eventually find out they need to upgrade to a new Arc will be happy to know that they can take their computers and dump it at their computer suppliers place and just drop it in. I think this Strategy came into play because most of their market segment is Dell and HP and these people. AMD is Smart. They are playing the "Get it now, Upgrade it later" card. So buying new or using Existing Motherboard is both an option for them. Unlike Intel's Crap-tacular strategy of making the consumer buy a brand new motherboard and a brand new Chipset with in it, and still being unsure if the CPU will run or not. AMD plays better strategy than Intel when it comes to CPU-MoBO Compatibility and Set-up Ease(for Builders and our segment of the market).
January 29, 2007 6:52:54 PM

Quote:
Remember Rob, the segment we represent is the only ones who understand this Difference. People who will buy the K8L(most) will buy the AM2+ socket pre-built System or just buy a AM2+ Motherboard with it. But for the suckers who are buying AM2 and will eventually find out they need to upgrade to a new Arc will be happy to know that they can take their computers and dump it at their computer suppliers place and just drop it in. I think this Strategy came into play because most of their market segment is Dell and HP and these people. AMD is Smart. They are playing the "Get it now, Upgrade it later" card. So buying new or using Existing Motherboard is both an option for them. Unlike Intel's Crap-tacular strategy of making the consumer buy a brand new motherboard and a brand new Chipset with in it, and still being unsure if the CPU will run or not. AMD plays better strategy than Intel when it comes to CPU-MoBO Compatibility and Set-up Ease(for Builders and our segment of the market).


Ya, you make some good points and no one should ever overestimate the savvy of the average consumer as most of them are still looking for the Turbo Button on their C2Q systems. As I do agree that the "Hey, I've got a 775 socket, this has 775 pins, it should work" mentality is also messed up. But this AM2/AM2+ thing does seem a little too confusing. It's kinda like saying that when I trade in my car I only have one choice since I need to transplant my custom headers. Get some new headers!
January 29, 2007 6:54:28 PM

Yes, and it's most relevant for those that already have AM2 and like to be conservative with money.....

One scenario: they drop an AM2+ cpu into their AM2 board, perhaps in 8 or 12 months, and make do with the boost they get for another 5-8 months or so, and then *buy an AM3 board*, all according to plan..... They can re-use the AM2+ cpu in the AM3 board, until they are ready to upgrade to an AM3 cpu when prices are better, etc., etc.

Piecemeal upgrades at relatively modest prices, and all the while being not far off the leading edge, like 80-90% of it.
January 29, 2007 7:00:35 PM

Quote:
Yes, and it's most relevant for those that already have AM2 and like to be conservative with money.....

One scenario: they drop an AM2+ cpu into their AM2 board, perhaps in 8 or 12 months, and make do with the boost they get for another 5-8 months or so, and then *buy an AM3 board*, all according to plan..... They can re-use the AM2+ cpu in the AM3 board, until they are ready to upgrade to an AM3 cpu when prices are better, etc., etc.

Piecemeal upgrades at relatively modest prices, and all the while being not far off the leading edge, like 80-90% of it.


Conservative is fine, but this seems like a relatively minor expenditure as compared to the cost of the CPU itself. There are some air CPU coolers out there that cost as much as an AM2+ motherboard. Can't see buying a V-8 and throttling it down to 4 cylinders. Not for $80 or so. Makes no sense to my addled brain.
January 29, 2007 7:01:54 PM

Other than HTT3, what will be missed by using AM2?
January 29, 2007 7:14:41 PM

Quote:
Other than HTT3, what will be missed by using AM2?


HTT3 at 2GHz vs. 1GHz & separate power planes for CPU and IMC. That's a significant throttledown in my book.
January 29, 2007 7:22:12 PM

That particular feature won't mean a whole lot in desktops, only in servers where HT links really need to blaze. That is the most publicized difference, though. Doesn't AM2+ support PCI-E 2.0?

I think the idea of the modular upgrade will work well for AMD users. Intel is going to get a few more boos if they force people to upgrade motherboards again for Penryn. I mean, they've got the engineering samples working on 965/975 motherboards, but we never know what they're gonna do when they hit the consumer space due to differing voltages.
January 29, 2007 7:27:47 PM

Quote:
That particular feature won't mean a whole lot in desktops, only in servers where HT links really need to blaze. That is the most publicized difference, though. Doesn't AM2+ support PCI-E 2.0?

I think the idea of the modular upgrade will work well for AMD users. Intel is going to get a few more boos if they force people to upgrade motherboards again for Penryn. I mean, they've got the engineering samples working on 965/975 motherboards, but we never know what they're gonna do when they hit the consumer space due to differing voltages.


From what I understand, and I may be wrong (and often are) some 965/975s will work with Penryn and some won't. You can't expect every $75 motherboard on the market to be forward-compatible to that extent. I think that Intel's done a helluva job just keeping it on the 775. As for the AM2+ support for PCI-E 2.0 I'm not sure if it can do that or if they saved that for AM3. Anyone?
January 29, 2007 7:50:19 PM

Quote:
Yes, and it's most relevant for those that already have AM2 and like to be conservative with money.....

One scenario: they drop an AM2+ cpu into their AM2 board, perhaps in 8 or 12 months, and make do with the boost they get for another 5-8 months or so, and then *buy an AM3 board*, all according to plan..... They can re-use the AM2+ cpu in the AM3 board, until they are ready to upgrade to an AM3 cpu when prices are better, etc., etc.

Piecemeal upgrades at relatively modest prices, and all the while being not far off the leading edge, like 80-90% of it.


Conservative is fine, but this seems like a relatively minor expenditure as compared to the cost of the CPU itself. There are some air CPU coolers out there that cost as much as an AM2+ motherboard. Can't see buying a V-8 and throttling it down to 4 cylinders. Not for $80 or so. Makes no sense to my addled brain.

There was a good post today in another recent thread (sorry, I'm not the kind that posts lots of links; but it does have red stars on it -- I voted 5 star), where the person pointed out theorectical situations where the HT difference mattered some, and that was for preium situations (e.g.--dual SLI on big monitor, etc), where the user is already spending a lot anyway, and so will up the motherboard anyway, etc., etc.

But for most of us, just getting 4 cores over 2 in a year, would be nice enough! And sure, if you want to shoot the extra $100, get the MB! OR....in a year, wait just a bit and get the AM3

But, for your metaphor, 8 cylinders down to 4 seems far from accurate. Perhaps 8 down to 7.5 generally, or down to 6.5 in the worst case uses that are uncommon.

In short, my scenario will make sense for many that conserve dollars, like I do.
January 29, 2007 8:06:14 PM

You can happily do without both features. ;) 
HT3.0 does not give any performance benefit on single socket systems (yeah well maybe with quad sli or stuff like that, but i really doubt it).
This because on a single socket board, HT is used only as a system bus, to hook up to PCI-Express.
HT2.0 already offer enough performance for the task.
As for the power features, could you point out to any link?
What i read is only speculative stuff.. but anyway, the split power planes probably are useful only for the quad-core.
Also, i'm not sure i understand the nature of your complaint.
Do you mean AMD shouldn't release AM2+ at all?
January 29, 2007 8:14:01 PM

Quote:
I know AMD is suppose to be releasing something new this year to try and out do what Intel has to offer at the moment, my question is what socket will it use? I believe the socket the AMD 64 X2's use right now is AM2...will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?


so fill me in!! , what are they gonna release this year thats new?? , whats after K8L ??
January 29, 2007 8:34:11 PM

Quote:
what socket will it use?
Both Socket F and Socket AM2 and AM2+, Socket F products hit first For K8L.

Quote:
Will the next gen processors by AMD use the same sockets?
Yes, they will use AM2 Sockets but they will be made for AM2+ Sockets, you will be able to drop in AM2+ Processors into AM2 board but will lack the updates provided in the AM2+ socket- Hyper transport 3. etc..

Not to start a flaming war, but does this strategy really make any sense. First you shell out $500 or so for a processor and you fit it into an existing AM2 motherboard that costs maybe $80 just to get some of the best features disabled. Sure, it provides an upgrade path for the people that already have an AM2 motherboard, but given the fact that the motherboard represents about 15% of the cost of the CPU, who cares?

It really depends on the real performance difference vs theoretical. If it turns out like the early PCI vs AGP, people would be fine without the "performance" of AM2+. It may be this upgrade in HT is coming before it is needed... Any guesses Jack?

And BTW, an enthusiast board isn't necissarily a minor expenditure... $200 bucks (vs. say a $350 e6600) is coming close ot the price of a CPU.
January 29, 2007 8:36:13 PM

Don't get vernandewd started on this subject...apparently a socket that lasts "only" two years isn't good enough. :p  Just playing man.
January 29, 2007 8:54:46 PM

They should bring back the Socket A.
January 29, 2007 9:06:17 PM

Quote:
Yes, and it's most relevant for those that already have AM2 and like to be conservative with money.....

One scenario: they drop an AM2+ cpu into their AM2 board, perhaps in 8 or 12 months, and make do with the boost they get for another 5-8 months or so, and then *buy an AM3 board*, all according to plan..... They can re-use the AM2+ cpu in the AM3 board, until they are ready to upgrade to an AM3 cpu when prices are better, etc., etc.

Piecemeal upgrades at relatively modest prices, and all the while being not far off the leading edge, like 80-90% of it.


Thats feeling pretty much like someone is ripping my guts out :(  when i purchased am2 they promised am3 compatibility,which would have seen me through 45nm in moderate steps.,maybe. :evil: 

Yeah i am a bit upset about getting caught in this trap,and no mention of what K8L will perform like on AM2 so i am left to assume it will be the same or worse.This sux.

Well, while I presumed some of the various architecture things in the chip will come thru on AM2, I've always had my eye on a different part of it -- 4 cores instead of 2! With that kind of boost, the other parts are less important to me.

For someone who actually needs the extra kick, they can get a motherboard anyway.
January 29, 2007 9:19:02 PM

@ halbhh

OK, then, I'll compromise with ya and go from 8 cylinders to 6. I had an old early '80s Cadillac that had a system that would shut down a couple of cylinders to save fuel. It ran about as well as a Fiat 500 on kerosene. I pay for power I want freakin' power! :twisted:

@ Pippero

Google: am2+ planes IMC. There are 38 of them, including Wiki.

@ Heyhey

What's after K8L? A buyout. :lol: 

@ kamel5547

Ok, but name me one sane person (who is not a Baron, other form of royalty, or on AMD payroll) who's gonna shell out $200 on an AM2 motherboard. These days it's kinda like investing in Amiga.

@ kiwik

Nah. Socket A couldn't handle the IMC. Now Super Socket 7! There ya go! A 100MHz FSB that could easily be pushed to 1333!!! :twisted:
January 29, 2007 9:25:02 PM

Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.
January 29, 2007 9:29:34 PM

Quote:
Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.


Damn. I've eaten burgers that cost more than that! 8)
January 29, 2007 9:32:10 PM

Quote:
Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.


Damn. I've eaten burgers that cost more than that! 8)

:)  Hate it when I pay $20 for a burger!
January 29, 2007 9:35:53 PM

Quote:
Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.


Damn. I've eaten burgers that cost more than that! 8)

:)  Hate it when I pay $20 for a burger!

$20? You have to tip more at some of these places. And the worst part is that once you're done you have to go to Burger King to get full. I love that "I AM MAN" TV commercial. "I'm not eatin' chick food anymore!"

OK, so if an AM2 motherboard is $64, the bottom line to slapping an AM2+ chip and losing the features is that it is a valid option for the just plain DEMENTED. :lol: 
January 29, 2007 9:39:35 PM

Quote:

Pip we had this discussion and i cannot disprove what you are saying,but do you honestly believ the l3 on am2+ will be the performance raising feature? AM2+ may have a dual Imc as well,which is not an am2 supported feature.

lets go point by point over the differences.sse extensions will give what level of perf?And the real estate for them will still be below intel.
How will L3 ,and dual imc and the added extensions accomplish what you are implying on am2?

Let's not confuse AM2+ socket with AM2+ processors.
AM2+ as a socket offers very little for performance, if at all.
Now, concerning the improvements of the AM2+ processors (K8L core):
L3 cache? A little, but mostly for 4 core systems. It helps with core-core on die communications
Dual IMC? I'm not aware of that.. AFAIK, a single CPU will still have only one IMC.
Enhanced crossbar switch? Again, will help with core - core communication, but it's not a major point here
SSE4? This will help for future applications, but it's just to match the instruction set of C2D
Improved branch prediction? Will help especially with certain types of integer code. Hard to quantify, without more details about branch prediction hit rates on K8, C2D
Out of Order Loads? Again, will help with certain types of integer code. (non computationally intensive)
Improved TLB? Will help with server / scientific workloads (large datasets)
So where is it the big performance improvement of K8L?
Simple, they basically doubled the width / throughput of the main computational engine, SSEx.
This involves doubling the execution resources (ALUs), the L1 cache ports (2x128bit Loads, or 1x128bit Load + 1x128 bit Store) and buses, the schedulers and even the fetch size (to be able to decode 3 SSE instructions per clock under all conditions, even in 64bit mode, something that it seems C2D can not always do (but there's not reliable data around)) this is probably the biggest factor of increased performance in K8L.
And crunching numbers at twice the speed (theoretically) they'll finally be able to make some use of all that bandwidth which is mostly wasted on AM2 processors.
January 29, 2007 9:48:23 PM

Quote:
Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.


Damn. I've eaten burgers that cost more than that! 8)

:)  Hate it when I pay $20 for a burger!

$20? You have to tip more at some of these places. And the worst part is that once you're done you have to go to Burger King to get full. I love that "I AM MAN" TV commercial. "I'm not eatin' chick food anymore!"

OK, so if an AM2 motherboard is $64, the bottom line to slapping an AM2+ chip and losing the features is that it is a valid option for the just plain DEMENTED. :lol: 
Eh? This is typical "enthusiast" logic at its best... :?
By using an AM2+ CPU on and AM2 board, you will not lose any performance.
*Maybe* you will use a bit more power, but again, can you post here a link which explains more about these split power planes in AM2+?
It's like those people who spend 100$ more on expensive RAM to get 2% more of performance.. wow. :lol: 
January 29, 2007 10:06:45 PM

Quote:
It's like those people who spend 100$ more on expensive RAM to get 2% more of performance.. wow. :lol: 


These are the same people who spend $2500 for wheels, $1800 for a stereo with subs and $1000 on a whaletail. Usually on a $800 Accent. Unfortunately Mommy and Daddy have to foot it when the crash.
January 29, 2007 10:10:16 PM

Quote:
Re the "$200" AM2 MB, Newegg's most popular list top 3 together average around $64.


Damn. I've eaten burgers that cost more than that! 8)

:)  Hate it when I pay $20 for a burger!

$20? You have to tip more at some of these places. And the worst part is that once you're done you have to go to Burger King to get full. I love that "I AM MAN" TV commercial. "I'm not eatin' chick food anymore!"

OK, so if an AM2 motherboard is $64, the bottom line to slapping an AM2+ chip and losing the features is that it is a valid option for the just plain DEMENTED. :lol: 

lol. that's so funny, driving from the restaurant by BK.
January 29, 2007 10:13:29 PM

Quote:

Eh? This is typical "enthusiast" logic at its best... :?
By using an AM2+ CPU on and AM2 board, you will not lose any performance.
*Maybe* you will use a bit more power, but again, can you post here a link which explains more about these split power planes in AM2+?
It's like those people who spend 100$ more on expensive RAM to get 2% more of performance.. wow. :lol: 


OK, let's try this logic out.

On a current, high-performing system, a $1500 pricetag is not uncommon. The "average" motherboard represents approx. 5% of that outlay.

Now if AM2+ offers performance differences that are unnoticeable, they are therefore useless and thus why bother making it.

If, however, there is a valid reason to throw another socket into an ever-growing maze of conflicting and capricious socketry, then why would anyone want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and handicap their shiny new system for an amount that is far less than the sales tax on it?

As for links:

Wiki

And these two are fun too:

VR Zone
Insanetek, forum but informative anyway.
January 29, 2007 10:17:11 PM

Quote:
These are the same people who spend $2500 for wheels, $1800 for a stereo with subs and $1000 on a whaletail. Usually on a $800 Accent. Unfortunately Mommy and Daddy have to foot it when the crash.

Eww... rice..




And super rice:

January 29, 2007 10:40:43 PM

Can you imagine showing up for your drivers license parallel parking test with that teal monster tongue/table/thing sticking five feet out? :lol: 
January 29, 2007 10:41:49 PM

Quote:
These are the same people who spend $2500 for wheels, $1800 for a stereo with subs and $1000 on a whaletail. Usually on a $800 Accent. Unfortunately Mommy and Daddy have to foot it when the crash.

And super rice:



what in the hell is coming out of the front of that car? look like its for scooping up another car
January 29, 2007 10:59:27 PM

Quote:

Not to start a flaming war, but does this strategy really make any sense. First you shell out $500 or so for a processor and you fit it into an existing AM2 motherboard that costs maybe $80 just to get some of the best features disabled. Sure, it provides an upgrade path for the people that already have an AM2 motherboard, but given the fact that the motherboard represents about 15% of the cost of the CPU, who cares?


I totally agree 100%. You have to pay to play. If someone wants to whine about it then maybe they should stop upgrading their PC. Motherboards are el cheapo compared to pretty much all other computer components.
January 29, 2007 11:05:24 PM

Quote:

I totally agree 100%. You have to pay to play. If someone wants to whine about it then maybe they should stop upgrading their PC. Motherboards are el cheapo compared to pretty much all other computer components.


agree as well. but the motherboard is the most cumbersome to replace, as you have to completely dismantle all your components, as well as reinstall your OS and applications.

plus, psychologically, it just feels like such a burden, like your upgrading your whole comp.
January 29, 2007 11:09:29 PM

I read about 3 new Intel sockets coming, but haven't noticed posts about them here in the cpu forum.
January 29, 2007 11:10:44 PM

Quote:

I totally agree 100%. You have to pay to play. If someone wants to whine about it then maybe they should stop upgrading their PC. Motherboards are el cheapo compared to pretty much all other computer components.


agree as well. but the motherboard is the most cumbersome to replace, as you have to completely dismantle all your components, as well as reinstall your OS and applications.

plus, psychologically, it just feels like such a burden, like your upgrading your whole comp.

I agree with it being somewhat of a pain, but I don't see how people can complain and complain and complain about it. PC upgrading is a hobby. If they don't like it, then they should stop.

Not referring to you "chocobocorey."
January 30, 2007 5:45:22 AM

I agree with both choco and Glacier. Yes, the motherboard is a royal pain to swap out, nowhere near as fast and easy as, say, a RAM upgrade. However, it is so relatively inexpensive as compared to the price of the overall system that it is no longer a major expense consideration. That right there shoots the AM2+ strategy right in the foot.

halbhh, as for the new Intel sockets, I understand that Penryn is going to be on 775. Which other sockets have been bandied around? I musta missed that.
January 30, 2007 6:27:55 AM

Quote:

OK, let's try this logic out.

On a current, high-performing system, a $1500 pricetag is not uncommon. The "average" motherboard represents approx. 5% of that outlay.

Sorry, but i disagree twice.
1) 1500$ is a "not uncommon" price tag for a midrange complete new system.
However, a lot of people are upgrading their PCs bit by bit, instead of throwing the old baby away and buying a completely new one.
2) you're referring to a 75$ motherboard, but most enthusiasts / overclockers would probably spend at least twice as that.
Consider how many people today is buying a 150-160$ E4300 / E6300 and pair it with a motherboard that costs roughly the same...


Quote:
Now if AM2+ offers performance differences that are unnoticeable, they are therefore useless and thus why bother making it.

Duh, you know, a single grain of rice makes an unnoticeable difference in the weight of your sushi meal... so start removing them all :lol: 
It's from a sum of "little differences" that you obtain the big differences.
Besides, the main point of AM2+ is another.
AMD wants to introduce HT3.0 in its platform, because for multisocket systems, having a higher bandwidth / lower latency CPU - CPU interconnect it does indeed make a big difference to performance.
HT2.0 has proven to be the main bottleneck in the 4x4 platform, for example.
It's also a marketing thing, of course it's always nice to have a new feature on your checklist.

Quote:
If, however, there is a valid reason to throw another socket into an ever-growing maze of conflicting and capricious socketry, then why would anyone want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and handicap their shiny new system for an amount that is far less than the sales tax on it?

Uhh, let's see...
Guy has an AM2 system with a good motherboard... so he buys a K8L, and pops it in, for let's say, 200 bucks, instead of 350...
BUT!!?!
He loses on the possibility to get a faster interconnect to a second CPU that he does not have (or to the PCI-Express bus, which is far from being saturated)!! 8O
OMG NO WAII!!1! :lol: 


Quote:
As for links:

Wiki

And these two are fun too:

VR Zone

Wikipedia (which BTW is not exactly a reliable source, quoting the Inquirer) says:
Advanced power features summarized as having split power planes, probably one for CPU Cores, and the other for the Integrated Memory controller (IMC), this will help for more advanced power management control.

This is what i meant when i said of the speculative nature of most sources on AM2+.
From here, it is hard to understand whether this is a feature of the CPU, of the socket, or both.

VR Zone is better, thank you for the link:
AMD will enhance C’n’Q with C1E by allowing the CPU to tri-state its IO during system idle and this allows power savings up to 18.3% during idle mode. Chipsets and BIOS are being validated for C1E support right now and so far ATi SB450 and SB600 chipsets are already validated for C1E.

Yep, but both are chipsets which support AM2.
Further:
The Stars processors (Agena, Kuma, Rana, Spica) based on Socket AM2+ supports dual voltage plane to allow control of CPU and NB voltages independently so CPU and NB clocks can be altered accordingly to usage.
So as it seems (and i suspect), this is a feature of the new CPUs, however it may be that it requires chipset and socket support, but again, this is still wild speculation.
Anyway, this feature is more relevant to quad-core CPUs.

So, let's recap:
AMD introduces a new socket with some enhanced multi-CPU and multi-core features.
However, they keep the new CPUs backward compatible with the previous socket, for those who don't really need such features and want a cheap upgrade path.
Dunno about you, but it all makes a lot of sense to me.
January 30, 2007 6:34:14 AM

Quote:

If, however, there is a valid reason to throw another socket into an ever-growing maze of conflicting and capricious socketry, then why would anyone want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and handicap their shiny new system for an amount that is far less than the sales tax on it?

Uhh, let's see...
Guy has an AM2 system with a good motherboard... so he buys a K8L, and pops it in, for let's say, 200 bucks, instead of 350...
BUT!!?!
He loses on the possibility to get a faster interconnect to a second CPU that he does not have (or to the PCI-Express bus, which is far from being saturated)!! 8O
OMG NO WAII!!1! :lol: 


hey, people love to complain. everyone is a benchmark slu!t these days, and they will pay the ca$h for the 2% boost in synthetic benchmarks. if they know that there is some tech out there that is technically more advanced, they will have to buy it.

the rest of us can lay low, and enjoy the massive price cuts going around. -DRAM should finally be getting low again as well, according to toms
January 30, 2007 6:58:42 AM

Hey, what's wrong with quoting the Inquirer? Even gap-toothed, wrinkly old hos deserve some respect!

My current "best price" for my summertime 2xCloverfield system buy is a couple of Quiznos Subs short of $10K. However, I think that you can configure a fairly high-end system for $1500 if you play your cards right, especially in the upcoming pre-Penryn price drops, and as choco sez, if RAM comes down the 20% or more that THG forecasts.

As for the various AM2/AM2+ difference, I think we should agree to disagree on AMD's marketing strategy. I still see it as a hapless answer to a question nobody asked. Walk into a PC shop and choose your CPU according to whether it fits 939/AM2/AM2+/AM3/F??? Or you can just step to the next shelf and take your pick of 775s. Isn't buying a new computer difficult enough for the layman? Does anyone with a life actually have time to research and apply comparative benchmarks/specs/pinouts/etc.? Let's not talk about THG forum participants. We're so far out of humanity's left field that we couldn't see life with Hubble.

Why don't we just start selling PCs the way Hasidic diamond tradesmen do it? One guy tells the other guy the price for a bag of diamonds, they shake hands, turn over the money and the bag, and the buyer walks away without ever looking in the bag! :lol: 
January 30, 2007 12:01:44 PM

That really didn't answer my question. I was asking what other than HTT will be missing with AM2. If it's only HTT, then I don't see the big deal. Current HTT provides more than enough bandwidth.
January 30, 2007 2:15:06 PM

Quote:
That really didn't answer my question. I was asking what other than HTT will be missing with AM2. If it's only HTT, then I don't see the big deal. Current HTT provides more than enough bandwidth.


What we know for sure at this point is that and split power planes. There have been allusions to more but I haven't seen anything definite. And for people who have dual quads in mind for their next system, a 1GHz HTT is a problem.
January 30, 2007 6:18:54 PM

Quote:
What we know for sure at this point is that and split power planes. There have been allusions to more but I haven't seen anything definite. And for people who have dual quads in mind for their next system, a 1GHz HTT is a problem.


For someone that can afford a quad-core, they would not mind buying a motherboard together.

But for someone that only wants a dual-core, an Socket AM2 board is more than enough.
January 30, 2007 7:03:15 PM

Hypertransport 3 will be at 4GHz
January 30, 2007 7:07:49 PM

Quote:
Hypertransport 3 will be at 4GHz


HTT 3 will be 4GMT/s with bi-directional 2GHz lanes only.
The maximum frequency of HTT 3 is only 2.6GHz as HyperTransport Consortium defined.

http://www.hypertransport.org/tech/index.cfm
Quote:
HyperTransport 3.0 extends HyperTransport 2.0’s 1.4 GHz dual data rate (DDR) maximum clock to 1.8 GHz, 2.0 GHz, 2.4 GHz and 2.6 GHz, and delivers a maximum aggregate bandwidth ......


The maximum throughput will be:
32-bit * 2.0GHz * 2 (bi-directional) = 16GB/s
January 30, 2007 7:14:30 PM

The split power plains allow the NB and CPU to operate ate different voltages. this allows the CPU to be throttled down during low usage and leaves the NB alone. This helps with Cool-n-quite, the CPU ramps down and the peripherals controlled by the NB stay the same.
January 30, 2007 7:43:03 PM

It is my understanding that AMD will be moving to DDR3, which will require a change in socket.
January 30, 2007 8:13:05 PM

DDR3 comes with the AM3
January 30, 2007 8:31:53 PM

Quote:

...who's gonna shell out $200 on an AM2 motherboard. These days it's kinda like investing in Amiga.

Don't write off amiga quite yet!

www.amiga.com

I actually set up DUN on an amiga over the phone about 4 years ago.
customer: "I have an Amiga"
me: "Ok. What Operating System is it running?"
customer: "...Amiga is the OS."
me: "...can I put you on hold for a minute?"
!