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Penryn Delayed to H1 '08

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January 31, 2007 3:35:57 PM

I am pretty surprised considering the demos Intel had only a week or two ago..... we'd concluded everything was going fine, and if HT really isn't in Penryn now, then surely that means the only new thing is SSE4?

I wonder if this is more a case of Intel dosn't want to release early as opposed to can't..... they have AMD where they want them right now, if they delay the launch of their 45nm stuff then they prolong the life of the 65nm chips - I imagine the last thing they want is to have a similar situation to clearing the Netburst stock once C2 came along.

This gives AMD a bit of breathing space if it turns out to be true. Does this also mean that Nehalem might be delayed? There wouldn't be much of a gap between Penryn and Nehalem if the original roadmap for Nehalem is stuck to.
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January 31, 2007 3:46:15 PM

It would be silly for Intel to give AMD more breathing room with Barcelona & Co. If they're pushing it back (truly, if this isn't just a rumor) it's for a very good reason.
January 31, 2007 3:49:16 PM

That depends I guess - if they know something about Barcelona that we don't, then if they know C2 will hold its own against it, either as it is or by ramping up clock speeds on 65nm, then they could make more profit by holding it back, since they will have to lower their prices on the 65nm line as soon as 45nm comes out.

I can't understand what problems they could have run into considering how everyone was talking about the massive success of the recent demo :?
January 31, 2007 3:51:43 PM

Quote:
That depends I guess - if they know something about Barcelona that we don't, then if they know C2 will hold its own against it, either as it is or by ramping up clock speeds on 65nm, then they could make more profit by holding it back, since they will have to lower their prices on the 65nm line as soon as 45nm comes out.

I can't understand what problems they could have run into considering how everyone was talking about the massive success of the recent demo :?


Outside of leaks in AMD's labs Intel would have no way to know how K8L will perform.
January 31, 2007 4:00:48 PM

Intel always stumbles at somepoint and gives AMD room to breathe


they release a great CPU and this is all suppose to change over night?
January 31, 2007 4:05:29 PM

Yeah I almost choked on my coffee this morning when I read that story. Same old Inquirer, spreading utter nonsense as usual. I suppose I'll file this one under the reverse hyperthreading story they ran. :lol: 

I can assure you Penryn is not delayed. It is still scheduled for Q4.
January 31, 2007 4:05:59 PM

I read thru it. Twice. I didn't see anything calling for a delay. It'll be right on time with Barcelona.
January 31, 2007 4:08:54 PM



That news is at a few other places too. It's the best thing Intel could do. They need to get rid of NetBurst before going to Penryn. It's going to be enough that they will be fire sale pricing most Clovertown SKUs to get more 2P volume.
January 31, 2007 4:52:23 PM

Quote:
Intel always stumbles at somepoint and gives AMD room to breathe


they release a great CPU and this is all suppose to change over night?
Apparently AMD stumbles too, this time they did a face-plant into the pavement. :) 
January 31, 2007 5:00:41 PM

From Anandtech

Could it be that the three fabs won't be ready in time for Q4 '07?
Earlier stories indicated that D1D in Oregon and Fab 32 in Arizona were expected to ramp up production in "second half '07" while Fab 28 in Israel was always slated for "1H 08"

Maybe the two U.S. fabs won't be up and running in time to get Penryn to market by year's end? I don't know, just speculating.

Having a few 45 nm samples up and running is great, but that's a far cry from having mass production in place.

The tech seems solid, but there could be other problems. Labor disputes, work slows, shortages of building materials -- anybody know if all is fine with the construction and retrofitting plans?
January 31, 2007 5:10:41 PM

Then there can be some truth to the matter.
January 31, 2007 5:17:41 PM




Barcelona delayed until 4Q '07.
According to me.

This is easily as credible as the inquirer

Edit: I will now lend credibility to this rumor since digitimes supports it. Seems there may be a possibility of AMD matching (or exceeding) intel's performance for the last half of the year.
January 31, 2007 5:26:51 PM

Quote:
Makes me wonder if high k is coming to a penryn near you and not bieng introduced on nehalem.


Just the thought of that made my knees buckle. A penryn with high k. Holy Hafnium, Batman!!!!

I want one! I want two! I want them NOW!!!!!!!
January 31, 2007 5:30:16 PM

may just be as simple as there is a hiccup in the new process somewhere....

Intel rushing out penryn to meet barcelona and its nots ready would be a costly error.
January 31, 2007 5:38:30 PM



It could actually be true

Quote from Fabtech :
Quote:

A little observation in the Intel release noted that the metal gates and high-k material would give an approximate 20 percent increase in drive current or more than.

Is that all?

I could have sworn that many, many other chip manufacturers at events such as IEDM were talking about double that figure? Otherwise why bother? Especially when straining has yet to reach its limits?

This could mean that Intel has rushed in dual metal gates and made some significant performance compromises. Only last year, Intel was touting more strain over high-ks and metal gates and even tri-gate structures for the 45nm node. I doubt very much that Intel's 45nm process will be anchored; rather it is going to float around a while before a better integration scheme can be utilized, perhaps at the 32nm node and the real benefits of this approach could possibly be seen


And rest of the article is here and is a very interesting read also.

So the delaying rumor might have some substance into it.
January 31, 2007 5:52:46 PM

Are you kidding ??? that's "Mark Osborne" putting Intel capacity to deliver 45 nm in 2007 under a question mark.

That's worth more than 20 Intel press releases, 50 wall street annalist opinions or anything else that new sensation seeking marketing machine from Intel is feeding us.
Think about it! he's chief editor for the world most famous semiconductor industry press magazine. His opinion should weight more than anyone else's.
January 31, 2007 6:16:17 PM

Quote:
Its an opinion;and an opinion by nature is seperate from fact.but loosely based on fact.

He makes a good case,seems well thought out;comes from a great site.definitely more reliable than the brits toilet site.But it does seem a bit ranty ,maybe jaded?

In the end its a blog not a report,even though its serious insider value is not to be condemned;all opinions require questioning. :wink:

better up that to 200 NYtimes articles and 150 wallstreet articles.70 random analyst opinions,and a five year span of inquirer news releases. :wink:

And as far as corporate news goes,they are about 25% more accurate than the inquirer giving a 75% margin of nearly telling the truth,where as the inquirer is abot 50% of near truth.


Agreed. An opinion is still an opinion, I wasn't trying to make anything more out of it and certainly wasn't trying to make it seem like a prediction. It's just an opinion to add to the bunch.

But opinions from people with allot o of weight on their sayings should at least give us something to think about ...
January 31, 2007 6:17:55 PM

Quote:
what did you mean by that reverse hyper threading remark. call me ignorant but what was the point in mentioning it.


Did you miss this one?
AMD Socket AM2 has a secret weapon

Quote:
However, AMD has a counter-attack weapon hidden in its Socket AM2 infrastructure.

It seems that all AM2 CPUs were outfitted with a support for Reverse-HyperThreading, an architectural change which enables software to think that it is working on a single-core alone. By combining two cores, the company has been able to produce the six IPC "core" that will go head to head against four IPC "core" from Conroe/Merom/WoodCrest combo.
January 31, 2007 6:30:35 PM



Complete and utter bull sh*t if i may say so myself.

Please elaborate!

I sure wouldn't want to thing that you're just an Intel marketing victim and buy everything they sell you ...

No word from any other source about Intel delaying Penryn. Considering it's coming from the Inq only i wouldn't believe it ;)  If it came from a more reputable hardware site (anand/digitimes) then i would be inclined to believe it, but as things are i don't.
January 31, 2007 6:35:03 PM

One point to make here - Intel's roadmap has always indicated Penryn would come out in Q1'08....

There was (and still is) a lot of speculation that it would be pulled in to launch in Q3/4 07 (especially after working A0 silicon was shown!!)

Also - much of the information on the 2 fabs in the US beginning production in 2nd half 07 (and a 3rd in Q1'08) has been mis-interpreted as "product launch / release" in 07... just b/c a fab is running wafers doesn't mean the product is launching - remember, there's a ~2-3 month lead time there...

Quite honestly, this isn't news... it's just a bunch of mis-interpretations of what has been said in the past... Not to say I wouldn't like to see Penryn pulled in to Q3'07 or earlier :) 
January 31, 2007 6:35:31 PM

Quote:
dewd i dig the sig,I am a string theory fan,as it effects the description of my views.crazy.

They are in no rush to do otherwise,they dont need to sweat amd for now.


Yeah, but I'm not that patient. I don't care about sweating AMD or anything else. I'm buying a new system this summer and I want dual-quad Penryn 45nm high ks in it! I've been a bad boy. I deserve them! :lol: 

Did you know that papers in string theory are published at a rate greater than the speed of light. This, however, is not problematic since no information is being transmitted. :D 
January 31, 2007 7:26:35 PM



Complete and utter bull sh*t if i may say so myself.

Please elaborate!

I sure wouldn't want to thing that you're just an Intel marketing victim and buy everything they sell you ...

No word from any other source about Intel delaying Penryn. Considering it's coming from the Inq only i wouldn't believe it ;)  If it came from a more reputable hardware site (anand/digitimes) then i would be inclined to believe it, but as things are i don't.

http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070131PD210.html
Digitimes is reporting it too... Fabtech is buying it

u seem real quick to believe INTELS word likes its gospel... you act like INTEL has never done this b4.
January 31, 2007 7:46:57 PM

Quote:
Are you kidding ??? that's "Mark Osborne" putting Intel capacity to deliver 45 nm in 2007 under a question mark.

That's worth more than 20 Intel press releases, 50 wall street annalist opinions or anything else that new sensation seeking marketing machine from Intel is feeding us.
Think about it! he's chief editor for the world most famous semiconductor industry press magazine. His opinion should weight more than anyone else's.


I really hope you forgot the /sarcasm tags. Have you read the other entries in his blog? I bet he writes a lot of those AMDZONE forum posts. roflmao!!! He blog articles are mostly opinionated drivel that have the credibility of dodo bird crap. "Happy Birthday FAB 30" and "Intel won't tell me what runs the machines in their fab, wahhhhhhhh". For an editor in chief of a publication that is at "leading edge of IC fabrication technology coverage" he seems to more interested in Intel and AMD's balance sheet numbers than the technology.

Thank god the actual articles aren't full of his crap.
January 31, 2007 7:50:23 PM

There are no delays to 45nm. Everything is moving ahead of schedule.
January 31, 2007 7:54:06 PM

Quote:
Yep, Fuad, the bastion of accuracy and precision --- the teller of all truth, the holy grail of knowledge:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32948
(K8L in Q1 of 07)


http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32885
(RHT Retraction, at least he got that right -- and wow AMD will only lose the performance crown for a whole quarter, great going Fuad)


You are cherry picking inq's stories that have failed to support you affirmations. Inq isn't wrong ar right all the time, it just is a rumor based publication. Inq can equally be right or wrong about it's stories that's how Inq will always be.

The thing is that other more or less respectable sites have wrote about the same thing.
January 31, 2007 7:55:51 PM

Quote:
There are no delays to 45nm. Everything is moving ahead of schedule.


Please backup that with at least some reasoning if not hard evidence!
January 31, 2007 8:13:23 PM

Quote:
There are no delays to 45nm. Everything is moving ahead of schedule.


Please backup that with at least some reasoning if not hard evidence!

He can't he works for Intel, he would get fired.
Well that's great [:) ], that's exactly what Intel is also saying about .45nm.
But the fact is that usually from first tapeout to first shipped cpu there is a year in time.

Barcelona taped-out last year Q2.
If Penryn taped out now it should come out this time next year.

Also fabtech called Intel's announcement 'vaporware' so you can understand why I don't blindly trust Intel, and I'm thinking about the possibility it might be just pure marketing.
January 31, 2007 8:29:04 PM

Quote:
There are no delays to 45nm. Everything is moving ahead of schedule.


Please backup that with at least some reasoning if not hard evidence!

He can't he works for Intel, he would get fired.
Well that's great [:) ], that's exactly what Intel is also saying about .45nm.
But the fact is that usually from first tapeout to first shipped cpu there is a year in time.

Barcelona taped-out last year Q2.
If Penryn taped out now it should come out this time next year.

Also fabtech called Intel's announcement 'vaporware' so you can understand why I don't blindly trust Intel, and I'm thinking about the possibility it might be just pure marketing.

its funny how people here at times are quick to believe INTEL and Slow to believe AMD just because INTEL SHOULD BE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE with all the dollars they have ,,,,an
January 31, 2007 8:49:22 PM

Quote:
There are no delays to 45nm. Everything is moving ahead of schedule.


Please backup that with at least some reasoning if not hard evidence!

He can't he works for Intel, he would get fired.

That's true.

Employees can't just come right out at a public forum or any other public place and state something. Look what happened to Pat Gelsinger when his internal blog of the google server thing went public.

I personally haven't seen the 45nm process in action, although I know of people who are working at fabs that are developing and testing the process. What it is? Beats me. I work at a totally different fab.

As for delays in Penryn and such. Okay. It was ahead of schedule, as I know, so unless it's delayed till 2H08, there is no delay to speak of.
January 31, 2007 9:45:21 PM

Quote:

Why are so many so blinded by AMD, as a dedicated customer of AMD you should be demanding better answers and better execution than what you have seen.


I personally don't consider myself blinded by AMD just because I tend to look more into the past or the future and not only remember recent events.
I just don't give Intel as much credit as most people do. And I don't give Conroe more than 15% lead ... because the benchmarks have been cherry picked and not done to the extent I wish they were. I'm not saying that AMD is better or anything, just that I'm not satisfied ... but that doesn't make me blind.

I'm not an AMD customer, if I were an AMD customer I'd be using and AMD CPU which I'm not :) . Well actually I am and AMD customer if I think about it, I have an ATI vid card.

Quote:

Over the past year, we have every reason to assume as such.... in Spring 2006, IDF --- Intel stated Conroe would be avaliable and in volume in Q3


Yes for Intel's size 6% of production in Q3 can be called volume. Don't want to dig up numbers but there were 4Mil CPU's to be released in Q3 if I remember corectly.

Quote:

AMD -- well let's see, late on Socket F, tougted QFX superiority that flopped, Dec 5th demoed a computer no one could touch only running task manager, Dec 14th told a group of analysts everything was rosy, the future was bright then promptly borrowed 200 million, then warned, then disappointed even on the warning.... their track record for 2006 in terms of being forthright is not too stellar. They 'launched' 65 nm CPUs but you could not configure one at any system builder nor find any on any shelved until a week or so ago.


AMD had worse times than that and still survived, on the other hand Intel hasn't recovered to 2005 level and it simply isn't bashed for that.
January 31, 2007 10:08:18 PM

Quote:
Tell me what bench marks you want and I will run them for you.


Well I would really like to see a compilation of a large project using Visual Studio 2005 C++ using WPO (whole program optimization) with and background video compression and some archiving of a very large file (> 2 Gigs) like a database backup.

If it gets better that 10% performance clock 4 clock than AMD under 32 bit I will shut up forever about it, no actually I won't :)  I will praise Intel for it. The point that I want to make sure that Conroe doesn't have an Achiles heel and it performs well under stress from multiple applications not just one, multithreaded or not. I think that I, for one, usualy put about 10x more pressure on a PC every day than does a average person in a week. (I don't mean games, I mean concurrent tasks)

Oh, and I definitely want to see some .Net or Java benchs (well maybe not Java but .Net, as .Net 3.0 is used for WPF in Vista)
January 31, 2007 10:26:53 PM

You can compile the .Net itself :) , SSCLI actually, wich the Microsoft shared source of .Net here it is ROTOR 2.0

Also you will also need a perl dist installed and VS 2005 installed. I recomend ActivePerl it installs easily and no config is required. All there is left to do is to open a command promp go to the root dir where you installed ROTOR and type env.bat. You should start building the .Net

[Edit:]
The commands should be :
env.bat
buildall.cmd
January 31, 2007 10:30:18 PM

I'm quite interested in this benchmark too as I do something similar at work and home. Similar in apps.

Thanks Jack!
January 31, 2007 10:32:34 PM

Huston we have a problem :D 
I'll try to find one as I have only P4's at home and at work and a Sempron wich is probably not good.
January 31, 2007 11:04:40 PM

Quote:
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

well since you can niether prove /and disprove them at the same time it makes sense. :lol:  :lol: 

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/x2-3600-Brisban...

check out JGraw's staement on this page.
(Msg. 137) Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: x2 3600+ Brisbane hits 3.1 GHz [in reply to: Retrolock]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just had to register after reading this thread.

First off, You guys are complete morons. Forum posters need to verify their over clocking results because they're ****** forum posters. Professional sites die if they doctor photos, so they generally don't do it. I mean, for Pete's sake, Chris Tom wouldn't have invited you idiots to Tek Republic if he had faked the results!

I hope you all realize that THG and the forumz are the laughing stock of the internet. Every other tech community like Anandtech, Ars, and Tech Report consider you guys to be dumbasses. After seeing the complete and total stupidity and lack of maturity on these forums, I can't say I blame them.


Interesting quote. No doubt anyone who makes a flame is indeed immature, by definition.

I like the quote though, because I haven't tried to find other forums, and perhaps there will be some interesting stuff to see.

Thanks.
January 31, 2007 11:16:26 PM

Penryn was never delayed, some of the folks were hoping it was forwarded to Q4 2007. Only the Extreme versions will see the light before 2008, plans for the rest never changed.

Move along now. Old news.
January 31, 2007 11:28:23 PM

Quote:
Luckily it works with a good old socket 775 but you most definitely need a new chipset. The CPU generation will be known as Wolfdale 45 nanometre.


Funny... Intel didn't seem to have any issues demoing that processor on a i975 chipset. Point is they're making shite up again. Intel hasn't confirmed whether or not Penryn will need a new chipset (at least, not to my knowledge). The only thing they said is they aren't guaranteeing Penryn will work with all existing motherboards.
February 1, 2007 12:18:35 AM

Quote:
Oddd... Penryn looks more ready than Barcelona does.....

Please show me a picture, screenshot, anything of barcelona running anything.....

Here is Penryn
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2087990,00.a...
Running a game, encoder/video editor, on a laptop on a desktop.....

Penryn appears healthy, Barcelona does not....


That's odd... The last I checked, an operating system was a significant and complex program. And even as minimal as it may be, Task Manager is an application. So please stop this line of reasoning. :wink:
February 1, 2007 12:25:07 AM

Quote:
I have always said booting into an OS is a big deal, a major milestone --- but that is different than running software.... and the line of reasoning is sound... if Barcelona was in good shape, a DEMO would have done just that, shown software running....

Do overclockers booting into windows consider that 'stable', if all you do is boot into window??? Nahhhhhh.... run something then talk.

An OS IS software. So IS Task Manager. There is NO difference.
February 1, 2007 12:27:19 AM

Quote:
Oddd... Penryn looks more ready than Barcelona does.....

Please show me a picture, screenshot, anything of barcelona running anything.....

Here is Penryn
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2087990,00.a...
Running a game, encoder/video editor, on a laptop on a desktop..... (besides task manager).

Penryn appears healthy, Barcelona does not....


I bet you that Barcelona is healthy, but if anything, AMD doesn't want to show it off because they know it doesn't exceed the current Conroes performance wise. We knew nothing about Prescott until literally days before it was released(well, we didn't know how Prescott will be different from our imaginations). Alternatively, AMD released a lot of info about Athlon 64's superiority before its release.

As for Penryn, it might be healthy, but it is on a bleeding-edge process technology. They were able to pull Conroe because it was on a mature, known process, but its not true for Penryn. It'll be much harder to pull off both a new chip and a new process technology.
February 1, 2007 12:34:44 AM

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Prim95 though can bring a computer down.....

And could you post CPU temps of your computer running task manager. Laughable.

Software that brings a computer down is STILL software. Do we need an official definition of software here?

Actually... yes... you could post CPU temps of running Task Manager. Does that make it not software?

CPU_temp != Software :wink:
!