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25 minutes to boot - Geek Squad warns of Vista first bootup

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January 31, 2007 8:09:05 PM

TG Daily Writes...


Why on earth would 1.) it take soo long, and 2.) destroy the hard drive? Humm.... Fishy best buy... very fishy.
January 31, 2007 8:18:02 PM

Odd. Very odd.
January 31, 2007 8:32:05 PM

This is first of its kind. Good thing to know. I hope its is the truth. Can casue damage to your HD hmmm. Wierd
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January 31, 2007 8:36:19 PM

well... the initial startup does honestly take quite awhile, less time on faster systems im sure... its because its initializing settings and benchmarking components of your system to see where it stands on a tier basis, and setting other things up too im sure

that it would take longer than 10 minutes on the first boot isnt all that unlikely either in most cases

as far as damaging the hdd, im sure they dont mean physically damage, but just like when installing a service pack or major update, if you cut power to it, or interrupt it like that, data is likely to become corrupted
January 31, 2007 8:37:10 PM

How? People turning off the computer while shaking it violently? It may ruin the OS, or the FAT, but physical? c'mon.
January 31, 2007 8:43:04 PM

Its more likely to damage the OS. Even more likely to damage a Raid array. But I agree physical damage is highly unlikely.

I would imagine its possible however. When you turn the hard drive off properly it parks the head before shutting down. If you kill the power before it has a chance to do that then perhaps shaking the drive enough could cause a head crash and physically damage the drive. Yah never know.

I am damn sure not going to try it out, thats for certain.
January 31, 2007 8:53:52 PM

Quote:
How? People turning off the computer while shaking it violently? It may ruin the OS, or the FAT, but physical? c'mon.

My exact point :)  It will mess up the os. But physical damage with the HD. Its hard to believe.
January 31, 2007 8:58:10 PM

Yeah, no physical damage would occur, I'm sure.

Perhaps the OS is installed on all of the systems en masse, and when it is first turned on it benchmarks, reads specs and compares them to allowed systems so it's not being installed on just any computer, etc.
January 31, 2007 9:00:30 PM

Maybe... just maybe....



When Vista detects you turning off the machine before it even gets to load the first time... microsoft programed a "kill HDD" command to discourage people form being impatient?
January 31, 2007 9:03:47 PM

Quote:
Maybe... just maybe....



When Vista detects you turning off the machine before it even gets to load the first time... microsoft programed a "kill HDD" command to discourage people form being impatient?

Then we would kill microsoft with all the law suites for doing such a thing. :lol: 


JK :) 
January 31, 2007 9:11:48 PM

It's obviously an international conspiracy by all the hard drive manufacturers :twisted: Get your pichforks and torches out - time for protests at ... uhmmm , errr, well ... somewhere.
January 31, 2007 9:13:33 PM

The disc drive heads would park properly whether the system is shut down properly or whether the power is yanked. It makes no difference to the disc drive how power is removed.
As soon as power is removed the heads are parked.

There is no way the drive could be damaged from a power off, data corruption yes, drive damage no.

Sounds like Geek Squad may be using some scare tactics to get them to "professionally" install vista for you.
January 31, 2007 9:49:51 PM

Quote:
The disc drive heads would park properly whether the system is shut down properly or whether the power is yanked. It makes no difference to the disc drive how power is removed.
As soon as power is removed the heads are parked.

There is no way the drive could be damaged from a power off, data corruption yes, drive damage no.

Sounds like Geek Squad may be using some scare tactics to get them to "professionally" install vista for you.


I called India and the Guru said no problem just reboot and press F11. Wait, that's all they ever say... never mind.
January 31, 2007 10:17:48 PM

Quote:
There is no way the drive could be damaged from a power off, data corruption yes, drive damage no.

Sounds like Geek Squad may be using some scare tactics to get them to "professionally" install vista for you.


The Geek Squad no doubt wants your money, but on the other hand is the data corruption. My guess would be that if the process is started but turned off, the data corrupts and the next time you try to boot up, it starts an endless loop or just refuses to try and crashes. Probably a complete disc format would solve the problem, but that would take putting the disc in another machine and formatting it there, then putting it back into the machine that you're trying to install Vista upon.

Then again, I could be wrong and all that could be done is to drop the hard disc into a garbage can and try again.
January 31, 2007 10:30:59 PM

Quote:
There is no way the drive could be damaged from a power off, data corruption yes, drive damage no.

Sounds like Geek Squad may be using some scare tactics to get them to "professionally" install vista for you.


The Geek Squad no doubt wants your money, but on the other hand is the data corruption. My guess would be that if the process is started but turned off, the data corrupts and the next time you try to boot up, it starts an endless loop or just refuses to try and crashes. Probably a complete disc format would solve the problem, but that would take putting the disc in another machine and formatting it there, then putting it back into the machine that you're trying to install Vista upon.

Then again, I could be wrong and all that could be done is to drop the hard disc into a garbage can and try again.

Nah, just put the boat anchor Vista CD in and boot to it, then let it reformat and away you go. What did M$ do between RC1 and RTM? I installed RC1 and with a 2.4 Northwood and 512Meg of ram there was no major lag on the first boot.
January 31, 2007 10:40:00 PM

Some OEM computers have a specialized installation process on a first-boot where they copy over all the included programs and stuff. Vista itself is very fast in installing from scratch, less than 20minutes on a P4 and an amazing <10 minutes in VMware with a C2D system (using an ISO of the Vista disk).
January 31, 2007 10:42:41 PM

Uh... firstly cutting off power abruptly ALWAYS risks damaging your hardware.

Secondly doing so in the middle of an OS configuration usually destroys the configuration.
January 31, 2007 10:45:55 PM

Right, thanks for including reasonings to your blanket statement. In fact, energizing the system almost always ricks damaging your hardware.


And since ME, the OS was able to resume installing if there was a problem and the computer had to be rebooted.
January 31, 2007 10:49:18 PM

I would not doubt that. More business couldn't hurt.
January 31, 2007 11:15:42 PM

Quote:
Maybe... just maybe....



When Vista detects you turning off the machine before it even gets to load the first time... microsoft programed a "kill HDD" command to discourage people form being impatient?




Great way to start a nasty rumour though:

"Vusta 25 minute initial startup mystery unraveled"
"Sources within M$ who wish to remain anonymous today revealed that the 25 minute initial boot time for the new Vusta OS is actually a full HDD format, during which time Vusta physically alters the magnetic properties of the HDD platters. Vusta acomplishes this by imparting a continuos series of sequential overvolted data writes, or "voltage spikes". The purpose of the alteration is to make non M$ formatted data uncompatable with the computers hard drives, thus making it impossible to store unauthorized data. This has been done as part of M$'s efforts to enforce DRM through Vusta. Interupting the overvoltage reformat will result in a partially formated HDD. Due to the difference in the new format as opposed to the old FAT 32 or NFTS file formatting systems, the hard drive will be effectively split into two uncompatable segments. Successive format attempts after a failed Vusta format will return a physical memory size specification that does not match the hard drives capacity as specified by its firmware. This in turns causes successive format attempts to fail prior to commencing, making the HDD unusable."
January 31, 2007 11:16:26 PM

I can attest to the long boot time. It took Vista 11 minutes to boot on my laptop for the first time... and my laptop is bad ass. I can see 25 minutes on older, slower machines.

And I can see how turning off or rebooting ur PC during the first boot could f*uck up the OS.
January 31, 2007 11:24:46 PM

i did the unthinkable... I actually restarted the pc during that "up to 25min" wait. OF crouse, i thought the pc froze during setup (i mean u would too if you stared at a blank screen for 5 minutes). after restart The os installed fine. It works and i haven't had a problem yet.
February 1, 2007 2:06:06 AM

Quote:
i did the unthinkable... I actually restarted the pc during that "up to 25min" wait. OF crouse, i thought the pc froze during setup (i mean u would too if you stared at a blank screen for 5 minutes). after restart The os installed fine. It works and i haven't had a problem yet.


Ahh. You just spoiled what could have been an endless debate and discussion over something most of us will never experience in the first place.
February 1, 2007 2:34:32 AM

Damn you beat me to it.
February 1, 2007 2:42:45 AM

Just go to Compusa, their PSA only claims 20 minutes and they charge 5 bucks less :p 
February 1, 2007 2:44:23 AM

And they will give your money back if you dont like Vista. .... and reinstall your old OS for free too.



I plan to take in a computer running windows 3.1 and attempt to have them UPGRADE the PC to vista. ... then demand they return my PC back to win 3.1 (not 3.11)
February 1, 2007 3:38:32 AM

Quote:
Right, thanks for including reasonings to your blanket statement. In fact, energizing the system almost always ricks damaging your hardware.


And since ME, the OS was able to resume installing if there was a problem and the computer had to be rebooted.


... ok heres the math for my "blanket statement" which I assumed most peopel would know.

1) Disk spins at 7200 RPM
2) Head is a few mm above disk
3) risk of head hitting disk at power off is higher than you might think,despite the advances made... especially on some of the low budget OEM drives (read samsung).
4) You also get other effects (i.e. if in the middle of a write the bits can get written to random locations, possible overwriting good data.


As far as your other statement, I've ahd systems reboot during an OS config (XP) and they did not come back up. THey simply had to be reformatted.

TO be honest I've seen it happen, I assumed it was common knowledge that a system power off in the middle of reading or writing was especially bad for the HDD.
February 1, 2007 3:41:43 AM

Quote:
I assumed it was common knowledge that a system power off in the middle of reading or writing was especially bad for the HDD.


Yeah... it's still not a good idea.
February 3, 2007 3:10:25 AM

Just so everyone knows I have created a new term for destroying a perfectly good computer by installing Vista on it. Vistacide.
February 3, 2007 4:01:51 AM

Even if it is a data corruption .. I think it's very silly thing .

I witnessed tons of sudden power off cases under windows XP .. and none of them caused data corruption to the main OS or anything .. sometimes .. some important system files appear to be corrupted though .

but XP always recognize them and request a Check-disk where he always fix those files .

anyhow .. hasn't anybody tried some viruses under windows Vista .. just to see how it would stand up against threats ?

I am curious to see that !
!