Good, evil, so what ?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

What difference does good/evil etc make other than it allows you to use
certain bits of kit ?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Manky Badger wrote:
> What difference does good/evil etc make other than it allows you to use
> certain bits of kit ?

A little thing called 'role playing'.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

> What difference does good/evil etc make other than it allows you to use
> certain bits of kit ?

In NWN I suppose none at all.

Alignment is more about Roleplaying your character as NWN is taken from
Dungeons and Dragons wher the roleplaying is more important than skills,
feats, bits of kit. A Computerised RPG loses a lot of this roleplaying
emphasis and naturally concentrates more on abilities, items, combat, traps
etc making things like alignment less relevant.

Alignment comes down to personal preferences and will restrict prestige
classes and items. Playing outside alignment can have negative consequences
if you change alignment you can lose certain abilities (Paladin) or the
ability to progress in certain classes (Bard?).

User created modules can script any event based on alignment but its not
particularly common.

I never take Evil characters as a personal preference eventhough many
consider them to be cool, I consider them to be Gits or backstabbing
murderous bastards which I have no desire to roleplay at all.

 

[Vellu]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Ever considered trying Lawful Evil? Would not steal, or do any random
evil act...but won't shy away either from doing whatever it takes to
reach his/hers objectives.

>
> I never take Evil characters as a personal preference eventhough many
> consider them to be cool, I consider them to be Gits or backstabbing
> murderous bastards which I have no desire to roleplay at all.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:cq7nsm$jts@library1.airnews.net...
> Manky Badger wrote:
>> What difference does good/evil etc make other than it allows you to use
>> certain bits of kit ?
>
> A little thing called 'role playing'.

Could you elaborate on this?

One can "role play" a character in many different ways, but the alignment
that one chooses for the game seems to have nothing to do with this. Which
is why I asked.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Manky Badger wrote:
> "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cq7nsm$jts@library1.airnews.net...
>
>>Manky Badger wrote:
>>
>>>What difference does good/evil etc make other than it allows you to use
>>>certain bits of kit ?
>>
>>A little thing called 'role playing'.
>
>
> Could you elaborate on this?
>
> One can "role play" a character in many different ways, but the alignment
> that one chooses for the game seems to have nothing to do with this. Which
> is why I asked.
>
>

I mean for your personal role-playing style. You are right to think that
it has little to do with the game, but as you play the game you can get
'in character' by making decisions based on your alignment. Your
alignment can also shift if you do things that aren't consistent with
it, but still it isn't a big part of the game. Just something extra you
can play for yourself. It's better than them leaving it out, at least.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

As far as I read the Lawful Evil it means following the law to the letter to
get your own way. As a student accountant thats pretty much me I suppose. I
cannot break the law (professional misconduct for fear of repercussions as
well as ideologically) but am out for my own ends and will reach them by
whatever necessary (but Lawfull) means.

So I guess I might well try a LE character at somepoint. I usually go with
LG (Rarely) NG (depending on chr and setting) or CG (most likely). I've
tried Neutral but get bored with them easily so might try LE mext NWN / PnP
game.

> Ever considered trying Lawful Evil? Would not steal, or do any random evil
> act...but won't shy away either from doing whatever it takes to reach
> his/hers objectives.
>
>>
>> I never take Evil characters as a personal preference eventhough many
>> consider them to be cool, I consider them to be Gits or backstabbing
>> murderous bastards which I have no desire to roleplay at all.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Alistair Davis" <a_davis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:JZgyd.178$N97.160@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> As far as I read the Lawful Evil it means following the law to the letter
> to get your own way. As a student accountant thats pretty much me I
> suppose. I cannot break the law (professional misconduct for fear of
> repercussions as well as ideologically) but am out for my own ends and
> will reach them by whatever necessary (but Lawfull) means.
>
> So I guess I might well try a LE character at somepoint. I usually go with
> LG (Rarely) NG (depending on chr and setting) or CG (most likely). I've
> tried Neutral but get bored with them easily so might try LE mext NWN /
> PnP game.

I understand that, but how does that affect the game?
As I see it the alignment is all "in the mind" so I can't see why one
selects an alignment for the game at all.
Perhaps I'm being thick.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

the challenge of role playing, is to play a character who's alignment is
different from your own. How easy would it be to role play some exactly like
yourself?. Once you figure out, most likely with some good friends help,
where u sit on the alignment charts. Attempt to play a Character alignment
thats not similiar to your own. The challenge would be to be to keep the
character within that alignment. how does it affect a character, in the Pen
and Paper, alignment shifts are ruff on experience points, and start to
limit your class choices, Paladins must be LG.

...Syn...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Manky Badger" <spam@puritanDOTfreeserve.FULLSTOPcoSPOTuk> wrote in message
news:cqc6qm$bbd$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
\
>
> I understand that, but how does that affect the game?
> As I see it the alignment is all "in the mind" so I can't see why one
> selects an alignment for the game at all.
> Perhaps I'm being thick.
>
NWN can be scripted to actually use alignment. In a well scripted mod Good
NPCs may refuse to talk to Evil characters and will charge higher prices for
characters of alignments different from their own. In tho OC it's
restricted to Good/Evil shifts but later games have Lawful/Chaotic changes
as well. In SoU entering private homes in the frist chapter will cause a
shift toward Chaotic. Most community mods avoid it because of the
difficulty in determining intent and it's best used in multiplayer games
with a DM running things. The roleplay aspect is part of gaming style. If
you don't care to play a part don't worry about it.



P

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Manky Badger wrote:
> I understand that, but how does that affect the game?


Alignment does not affect NWN at all except to, as you suggest,
determine types of kit. In normal PnP games, there are severe
ramifications to violating one's alignment. For example, in NWN,
paladins who cease being Lawful Good merely cannot level up as a paladin
any longer. In PnP, such "fallen" paladins also lose all their special
paladin abilities.

Also, at the DM's discrection, shifting one's alignment can cause you to
lose favor with your deity; perhaps be forced into a quest of atonement,
maybe have the deity send divine (or demonic) assassins after you. Etc.

Some few computer RPGs actually give you a (slightly) different
storyline depending on whether you're of one particular alignment (HotU
and SW:KotOR spring to mind); otherwise, alignment is meaningless in the
context of the game except to determine what classes you may choose and
what equipment you can use.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Alistair Davis wrote:
> As far as I read the Lawful Evil it means following the law to the letter to
> get your own way.

Lawful means ordered, it doesn't actually relate to the law.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Kish wrote:
> Alistair Davis wrote:
>
>>As far as I read the Lawful Evil it means following the law to the letter to
>>get your own way.
>
>
> Lawful means ordered, it doesn't actually relate to the law.

Yeah, the way I see it is that lawful means you are someone who likes
order, rules, patterns, etc. You would make lists and charts and be OCD
about stuff. Chaotic people don't care about any of that.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

John Salerno wrote:
> Kish wrote:
>
>> Alistair Davis wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I read the Lawful Evil it means following the law to the
>>> letter to get your own way.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lawful means ordered, it doesn't actually relate to the law.
>
>
> Yeah, the way I see it is that lawful means you are someone who likes
> order, rules, patterns, etc. You would make lists and charts and be OCD
> about stuff. Chaotic people don't care about any of that.


Exactly. The Mafia would be considered a LE organization, and they most
certainly do steal and break lots of other laws of countries. The
members just don't break the *Mafia's* laws--unless they want to swim
with concrete galoshes.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

> I realize that. I wasn't trying to criticize you but only provide my
> opinion on the merits of using alignment based scripting.

The example of shopkeepers was I think purely an example and probably not to
be taken seriously.

However it would be possible for a LG Paladin to take on a quest to kill an
innocent using basic scripting techniques. Alignment scripting would make it
possible to script the conversation in such a way that the Paladin (or other
Good chrs) is never offered this particular quest. In a campaign you could
give different quests to PC's with different alignments or character
classes. A DM does this automatically in a PnP campaign but it would involve
a lot of scripting in NWN.

Checks for alignment are fairly straightforward in the script editor but
adding all the extra dialogue / quests would be a lot of work. However I do
think it could work quite well. Have to agree with the consistency argument.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Alistair Davis wrote:
>
> However it would be possible for a LG Paladin to take on a quest to
> kill an innocent using basic scripting techniques. Alignment
> scripting would make it possible to script the conversation in such a
> way that the Paladin (or other Good chrs) is never offered this
> particular quest.

Why shouldn't the Paladin be offered it? It seems to me, that Paladins
(and other Good characters) should be subject to temptation (so to
speak). There are cases where it wouldn't be appropriate (from a random
encounter on the street for example), but in other cases it would be.

I'm not against all alignment scripting, but only advocating for it not
to be used carelessly. There should be consequences for a Paladin who
does take the above quest (i.e. an alignment change that looses him his
Paladin status).

> In a campaign you could give different quests to PC's with different
> alignments or character classes. A DM does this automatically in a
> PnP campaign but it would involve a lot of scripting in NWN.

Alignment is a simplistic implementation of a complicated subject. I
think it works better with a DM as the DM can take into other factors
(i.e. how the character is roll-played). Is one character "shifty-eyed"
and arrogant? Is another well mannered and pleasant? The NPC might
assume the first is a better candidate for his assassination request
when the first might have the "heart of gold" and the second one is the
"evil" one. Simplistic example, but hopefully enough to realize what
I'm getting at.

> Checks for alignment are fairly straightforward in the script editor
> but adding all the extra dialogue / quests would be a lot of work.
> However I do think it could work quite well. Have to agree with the
> consistency argument.

Yes, if you put in a "good path" and a "bad path", you're effectively
doubling the size of your module.

- W. Citoan
--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
-- Graffiti

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

> Why shouldn't the Paladin be offered it? It seems to me, that Paladins
> (and other Good characters) should be subject to temptation

Fair comment. I just find it annoying to have uncompleted journal entries so
wouldn't wnat "uncompletable" quests sitting in the journal so try to make
sure that they are not given in the first place. I accept that in some
instances the "temptation" would work very nicely.

> Alignment is a simplistic implementation of a complicated subject. I
> think it works better with a DM

No arguments there. A simple 2 second decision by a DM can take an hour to
script for a module and chances are you won't take into account every
variable. DM's are inherently better than scripting but I prefer to play NWN
rather than DM it.

> Yes, if you put in a "good path" and a "bad path", you're effectively
> doubling the size of your module.

Unless the type of module or storyline inherently lends itself to the 2
paths possibility its probably more work than most module creators want to
do. It wans't necessary in the mod I created so I didn't implement it
except in some VERY minor sidequests.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Alistair Davis wrote:
> > Why shouldn't the Paladin be offered it? It seems to me, that
> > Paladins (and other Good characters) should be subject to temptation
>
> Fair comment. I just find it annoying to have uncompleted journal
> entries so wouldn't wnat "uncompletable" quests sitting in the
> journal so try to make sure that they are not given in the first
> place. I accept that in some instances the "temptation" would work
> very nicely.

I also get annoyed with uncompleted journal entries. But it should be
easy to script around that: a refusal option on the conversation tree
which marks the quest as completed. Something along the lines of

"I was approached by a most unsavory person who asked me to kill Mr.
Hyde. I, of course, promptly refused and sent the despicable fellow
on his way."

As I think more about it, this would actually be a good one for having
two paths - one to accept & perform the assassination; another to refuse
and help the potential victim.

- W. Citoan
--
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers
on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter room three. Christopher
Robin, you have the bridge."
-- Anonymous