Best calibration Disk for HDTV's...

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ComedyBoyDC <consumer12345@aol.com> wrote:
} I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
} tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
} also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
} the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
} Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
} surround sound audio systems as well?

The best calibration CD is "Avia: home theater calibration DVD". There
is also "Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up" which isn't as good
overall, it doesn't have near as many test patterns, but it's half the
price. The Sound and Vision DVD does have a test tone for setting the
level of the rear center speaker 5.1EX systems, otherwise Avia is superior.


} P.S. Oh, and i am NOT spending $200 to get it professionally
} calibrated...this TV is almost breaking the bank as it is!  

With a direct view you can probably do it yourself.
I was able to get into the service menu on my Toshiba and fix the
geometry problems, but I don't know about fixing the red push.

--

Frank Ball frankb@sonic.net

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

does it take you into the service menu or does it only adjust brightness,
contrast, etc?


<frankb@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:72Kzc.17040$Fo4.221197@typhoon.sonic.net...
> ComedyBoyDC <consumer12345@aol.com> wrote:
> } I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
> } tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
> } also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
> } the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
> } Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
> } surround sound audio systems as well?
>
> The best calibration CD is "Avia: home theater calibration DVD". There
> is also "Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up" which isn't as good
> overall, it doesn't have near as many test patterns, but it's half the
> price. The Sound and Vision DVD does have a test tone for setting the
> level of the rear center speaker 5.1EX systems, otherwise Avia is
superior.
>
>
> } P.S. Oh, and i am NOT spending $200 to get it professionally
> } calibrated...this TV is almost breaking the bank as it is!  
>
> With a direct view you can probably do it yourself.
> I was able to get into the service menu on my Toshiba and fix the
> geometry problems, but I don't know about fixing the red push.
>
> --
>
> Frank Ball frankb@sonic.net

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

oscargrouch wrote:
>
> does it take you into the service menu or does it only adjust brightness,
> contrast, etc?

AVIA or Sound & Vision Home Theater Tune-up (I have/use both) only

goes into the simpler/useful HDTV user menu..... for 6
adjustments..

The TV set service menu, which I have no intention to mess with on
my

Sony 34HS510, can correct the red push (suntan faces).....

>
> <frankb@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:72Kzc.17040$Fo4.221197@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > ComedyBoyDC <consumer12345@aol.com> wrote:
> > } I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
> > } tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
> > } also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
> > } the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
> > } Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
> > } surround sound audio systems as well?
> >
> > The best calibration CD is "Avia: home theater calibration DVD". There
> > is also "Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune-Up" which isn't as good
> > overall, it doesn't have near as many test patterns, but it's half the
> > price. The Sound and Vision DVD does have a test tone for setting the
> > level of the rear center speaker 5.1EX systems, otherwise Avia is
> superior.
> >
> >
> > } P.S. Oh, and i am NOT spending $200 to get it professionally
> > } calibrated...this TV is almost breaking the bank as it is!  
> >
> > With a direct view you can probably do it yourself.
> > I was able to get into the service menu on my Toshiba and fix the
> > geometry problems, but I don't know about fixing the red push.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Frank Ball frankb@sonic.net

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ComedyBoyDC wrote:
> I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
> tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
> also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
> the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
> Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
> surround sound audio systems as well?
>

I have the Sony 34HS510, and I calibrated it along with my
amp/speakers using the Avia disc. It even comes with little color
filters so you can adjust the colors perfectly.

If you also care about adjusting your sound setup to perfecetion along
with your tv, you'll also need a sound pressure meter (available at
your local radio shack).

-Mike

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ComedyBoyDC wrote:
> I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
> tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
> also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
> the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
> Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
> surround sound audio systems as well?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Paul
>
> P.S. Oh, and i am NOT spending $200 to get it professionally
> calibrated...this TV is almost breaking the bank as it is!  

Keep in mind that if you use Avia or Digital Video Essentials (both are
excellent) that unless you have a DVI capable DVD player, you'll may be
calibrating an input on the TV that is different that the one you use
for HD.

You should also be aware that many sets store settings for each input (I
don't think the Sony does). If that's the case, you may need to
propagate settings from the calibrated input to the input used for other
sources.

If you needed to calibrate using a true HD image, you can purchase DVE
on D-VHS in either 1080i or 720p format.


--
David G.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"oscargrouch" <leeYOURjackVIRGINITYmo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jaumqFv8u30U1@uni-berlin.de...
> does it take you into the service menu or does it only adjust brightness,
> contrast, etc?
>
Setup DVDs don't do anything but provide general information along with
video and audio benchmarks. The user can take advantage of those by using
either the user menu or the service menu. To use the service menu, the user
will need to know how to access and manipulate it. The DVD does not have
that information. A service manual plus a setup DVD are the tools for a
decent job. Manipulating service menu settings can be hazardous to your
picture if not done carefully and properly.

Pat

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

i just bought an hdtv from sony and i did not calibrate with any third
party gear. i used my eyes.

here's the thing,,,,everyone sees color differently, or let's at least
say that a particular color may be good for one person and too harsh
for another. in this area, we all have differing tolerances. so in my
opinion, any color calibration gizmo you use is only good for the guy
who sold it to you....unless your tv is totally whacky.

what ALL tv's are horrendous at is their their default setting for the
grey scale. especially for lcd's and plasmas,,,but for all screens in
general, everything is set in high key. in other words, the screens
are WAY too contrasty. if you take a look at the darks on your tv, you
will probably see black blacks. THERE ARE NO BLACK BLACKS IN REAL
LIFE. you only see black blacks if you look at something black in a
pitch black closet, in a black room, at night. other than that, take
a look at anyone in a black suit and you will see that their suit is
lit to a dark grey.

what i did with my sony was to download a grey scale to a memory
stick, and i popped it in the tv. i then set the contrast lower until
i could distinguish between the last two dark bars on the grey
scale(the black and the bar next to it). then i lightened the picture
to what was suitable to me. but basically, when i am watching a show,
i should see some soft detail in the dark areas.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> will probably see black blacks. THERE ARE NO BLACK BLACKS IN REAL
> LIFE. you only see black blacks if you look at something black in a
> pitch black closet, in a black room, at night. other than that, take
> a look at anyone in a black suit and you will see that their suit is
> lit to a dark grey.
>
> what i did with my sony was to download a grey scale to a memory
> stick, and i popped it in the tv. i then set the contrast lower until
> i could distinguish between the last two dark bars on the grey
> scale(the black and the bar next to it).

And that's EXACTLY how the Avia disk controls the black level. They
give you two bars, one completely black, the other a notch above, and
you adjust the black level until you can distinquish the two.

But you're adjusting the wrong setting. "Contrast" adjusts the white
level. IOW, how white is the whitest pixel. "Brightness" controls
black level. The do affect each other, so they need to be done in the
proper order.

How do you set your sharpness, tint and saturation accurately with an
image on a memory stick? You need color filters which are supplied
with the Avia disk to adjust adjust tint and saturation, and you're
going to need proper NTSC color images to adjust them to NTSC
settings.

IOW, you're missing a LOT in just putting a static image on your
screen from your memory stick.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> here's the thing,,,,everyone sees color differently, or let's at least
> say that a particular color may be good for one person and too harsh
> for another. in this area, we all have differing tolerances. so in my
> opinion, any color calibration gizmo you use is only good for the guy
> who sold it to you....unless your tv is totally whacky.

I agree with that to a degree...but it seems to be that a calibration
disk can help make those colors close to what they are SUPPOSED to
look like, regardless of the way each of ours eyes is tweaked. i have
a feeling that if you set your video display perfectly according to a
disk like Avia, and then watch things that way for a while, you will
get used to it, and find it very pleasing. if after repeated viewings
, you don't like it, then create your own reality.

>THERE ARE NO BLACK BLACKS IN REAL
> LIFE. you only see black blacks if you look at something black in a
> pitch black closet, in a black room, at night. other than that, take
> a look at anyone in a black suit and you will see that their suit is
> lit to a dark grey.

I don't agree. Perhaps with many blacks that IS true. With a wool
suit...well, maybe deep gray. But i am a big fan of Star Trek, Star
Wars, Aliens and many other Sci-Fi movies. When i see outer space, i
want to see BLACK BLACK. Not very dark gray. That deep blackness of
space adds so much to the depth of what you're watching.

-Paul

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

here is where i lack technical expertise,,,,,ie,,,where "measured
technical calibrations" is involved.

i am an artist, so i use my eyes. in order for me to distinguish
between the two dark bars on a grey scale, i must use the
picture(contrast) setting for two reasons..... because it is the
contrast that is making the dark bars indistinguishable. and IT IS
ALSO IMPORTANT FOR ME that the blacks on my screen are NOT BLACK. all
my darks are open,,,,because, as i mentioned, there are no "blacks" in
real life. by using contrast, i can open my darks to see soft detail
in the shadows. also,,,,there are no "blacks" in film either. what
might appear black is a matter of value relationships. even when you
film black, the grain of the film will lighten the black to a very
dark grey. a dvd on my screen looks like the movie, and ten times
better than the horrid settings on the demo models at the sony
superstore.

color is a seperate issue altogether. and my first thought, because i
am new to HD, was to use all these jpg's in the memory stick to set my
color. well,,,,,first of all, color is different in all
formats...different between each jpg, different from hd, different
from dvd's,,,it goes on and on. i've seen strong chroma on nbcHD jay
leno, and realistic color on nbcHD crossing jordan. in the end, i
found i didn't have to alter color at all,,,,the default setting was
fine. someone posted about a tv set being set too red in default. not
having seen the color, i would caution against balancing with more
green. the flesh tone you get with that kind of balance is equally
bad. "correct tinting" is a funny thing. people DO, in fact, have
reddish faces(there are many reason), and adding more green makes
flesh tones MORE fake. flesh tones usually go from a reddish to a
paler neutral(greyish) from all the ambient neutrals, but green
doesn't do the trick.

my images are sharp enough that i don't get fake halos around the
edges. i'm not keen on getting images too sharp anyway, because the
images then start to look thin and fragile.

my tints are just right.

my saturation is a good balance between what is "real" and what is
good for fun viewing. in the end, the memory stick was a good start,
and there wasn't much fine tuning needed to set it all right. and
color is always subjective to each person viewing, so there's no need
for calibrated color, imo.

but my issue has always been with values. values(greys) have always
been improperly displayed,,,whether film or print. either they don't
reproduce well or people just can't see them. so i put them in.
"contrast" is good for this. so when people see my hdtv, not only do
they enjoy the realism,,,,,,their eyes don't hurt.

printers should have two grey inks if they want realism in their
color,,,,,but you know what,,,i think people are so used to seeing
loud color in print and film, they can'r see what's in front of them.
i realize "color" is an enjoyable, entertaining thing, so i never get
REALLY too realistic. i have a happy medium on my set.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

well,,,i'm not going to argue about how we prefer to see color, or in
this case,,,,values.

but here i go anyway   . watching deep space is a particular
instance. but most scenes on tv and movies that involve darks will be
interiors and dark clothes. you may have a point about rich darks for
star trek, but that's 1% of all the movies i see....and watching outer
space on a movie screen is not as black as you think. BLACK,,,as you
watch the movie in a theater, is closer to the black curtains that
border the screen,,,which is MUCH darker than the outer space you're
watching.

in any case, we come back to personnal preferences,,,and paying money
for a disk that tells you what's SUPPOSED to be right is iffy. what do
the disks cost,,,,$30?

black black on a screen, with no soft detail, is just dead space with
no atmosphere. your eyes are much more discriminating than a camera
lens. imo, the camera lens can certainly make things eye-popping, but
i see that as a negative where others will like the contrast.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The Avia test disk is good. Joe Kane's Video Essentials disc is better, IMO:
http://www.videoessentials.com/

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>.but it seems to be that a calibration
>disk can help make those colors close to what they are SUPPOSED to
>look like, regardless of the way each of ours eyes is tweaked. i have
>a feeling that if you set your video display perfectly according to a
>disk like Avia, and then watch >things that way for a while, you will
>get used to it, and find it very pleasing. if after repeated viewings
>, you don't like it, then create your own reality.

This is usually the case. I showed 2 people the difference on a Sony RPTV
between the properly calibrated Tritron mode that pushes blue/white and the
properly calibrated NTSC color setting. Most people find the white/blue push
very appealing and that's part of why Sony sells so many sets. But the NTSC
color mode is more accurate, and they noticed this. However, the NTSC color
mode always mkaes things look much Warmer than the Sony would otherwise and
this bothered them at first. It takes time to get used to.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

bruin70@mail.com (b) wrote in message news:<95513a07.0406172343.434cedaf@posting.google.com>...
> here is where i lack technical expertise,,,,,ie,,,where "measured
> technical calibrations" is involved.
>
> i am an artist, so i use my eyes. in order for me to distinguish
> between the two dark bars on a grey scale, i must use the
> picture(contrast) setting for two reasons..... because it is the
> contrast that is making the dark bars indistinguishable. and IT IS
> ALSO IMPORTANT FOR ME that the blacks on my screen are NOT BLACK.

You are not listening. CONTRAST controls the amount of WHITE on the
screen, not the level of black. BRIGHTNESS controls the black level.

> color is a seperate issue altogether. and my first thought, because i
> am new to HD, was to use all these jpg's in the memory stick to set my
> color. well,,,,,first of all, color is different in all
> formats...different between each jpg, different from hd, different
> from dvd's,,,it goes on and on. i've seen strong chroma on nbcHD jay
> leno, and realistic color on nbcHD crossing jordan. in the end, i
> found i didn't have to alter color at all,,,,the default setting was
> fine. someone posted about a tv set being set too red in default. not
> having seen the color, i would caution against balancing with more
> green.

Changing the tint is not how you correctly adjust for red push. You
go into the service menu of most TVs where you can adjust the actual
level for the Red, Green, and Blue guns independantly. This is where
you MUST have a test disk with the proper color filters which you look
through to do this accurately.

> my images are sharp enough that i don't get fake halos around the
> edges. i'm not keen on getting images too sharp anyway, because the
> images then start to look thin and fragile.

Halos are caused by TOO MUCH sharpness, so I don't think you
understand what it's really doing when you say your images are "sharp
enough".

> my saturation is a good balance between what is "real" and what is
> good for fun viewing. in the end, the memory stick was a good start,
> and there wasn't much fine tuning needed to set it all right. and
> color is always subjective to each person viewing, so there's no need
> for calibrated color, imo.

But it's really not subjective, not in this realm. The TV takes a
signal and turns it into light. The objective is to reproduce the
picture which is encoded in the signal exactly. There is only 1
correct way to do this.

> but my issue has always been with values. values(greys) have always
> been improperly displayed,,,whether film or print. either they don't
> reproduce well or people just can't see them. so i put them in.
> "contrast" is good for this. so when people see my hdtv, not only do
> they enjoy the realism,,,,,,their eyes don't hurt.

The only real way to properly adjust grey levels is with a qualified
tech, a bunch of hi tech gear, and a dive into the service menu.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> watching outer
> space on a movie screen is not as black as you think. BLACK,,,as you
Let me bring this thread back to the ORIGINAL topic for just a
moment... Are there any dissenters, or does everyone agree that the
Avia disc is the one i should get for my Sony HDTV direct-view CRT?
The release date says 1999... Is it really that old, or has it been
updated inthe last 5 years? But now on to the other comments.....

> when you watch the movie in a theater, is closer to the black curtains that
> border the screen,,,which is MUCH darker than the outer space you're
> watching.

If we're going to talk about a movie theater, the only reason that the
black theater curtains appear darker than outer space on the movie
screen is because the curtains do not have LIGHT shining on them. In
order to make the rest of the images on the movie screen visible to
the eye, there must be light to project the black of space. But that
is not how deep space looks. If we are trying to re-create the movie
theater experience, we can also add the ocassional flicker, the
changing of the reels, and the smell of nachos and Cherry Coke. Me, i
want my image to be as REALISTIC as possible...Not simply recreate a
movie theater. It certainly has its faults.

As i said, it seems to me that WITHOUT using a calibration disk, you
might not be sure what the correct colors are supposed to be in the
movie you're watching. Wouldn't everyone who has a home theater want
to at least START with what is supposed to be the most accurate image?
It can be tweaked to taste, but why not at least find out what it's
SUPPOSED to look like? Then you can see what the director intended,
and possibly find it pleasing. And again, if you don't like it after
multiple viewings, then change it, but at least give it a TRY...

-Paul

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> The Avia test disk is good. Joe Kane's Video Essentials disc is better, IMO:
> http://www.videoessentials.com/

Steve says that the Video Essentials disc is better than the Avia.
Any opinions? does it have Audio calibration, too?

-Paul

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Are there any dissenters, or does everyone agree that the
>Avia disc is the one i should get for my Sony HDTV direct-view CRT?

I use the Video Essentials disc, religously.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Steve says that the Video Essentials disc is better than the Avia.
>Any opinions? does it have Audio calibration, too?

Yes, it has audio adjustments. See the FAQ here:
http://videoessentials.com/DVEQ&A.htm

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ComedyBoyDC wrote:
>> watching outer
>> space on a movie screen is not as black as you think. BLACK,,,as you
> Let me bring this thread back to the ORIGINAL topic for just a
> moment... Are there any dissenters, or does everyone agree that the
> Avia disc is the one i should get for my Sony HDTV direct-view CRT?
> The release date says 1999... Is it really that old, or has it been
> updated inthe last 5 years? But now on to the other comments.....
>
>> when you watch the movie in a theater, is closer to the black
>> curtains that border the screen,,,which is MUCH darker than the
>> outer space you're watching.
>
> If we're going to talk about a movie theater, the only reason that the
> black theater curtains appear darker than outer space on the movie
> screen is because the curtains do not have LIGHT shining on them. In
> order to make the rest of the images on the movie screen visible to
> the eye, there must be light to project the black of space. But that
> is not how deep space looks. If we are trying to re-create the movie
> theater experience, we can also add the ocassional flicker, the
> changing of the reels, and the smell of nachos and Cherry Coke. Me, i
> want my image to be as REALISTIC as possible...Not simply recreate a
> movie theater. It certainly has its faults.
>
> As i said, it seems to me that WITHOUT using a calibration disk, you
> might not be sure what the correct colors are supposed to be in the
> movie you're watching. Wouldn't everyone who has a home theater want
> to at least START with what is supposed to be the most accurate image?
> It can be tweaked to taste, but why not at least find out what it's
> SUPPOSED to look like? Then you can see what the director intended,
> and possibly find it pleasing. And again, if you don't like it after
> multiple viewings, then change it, but at least give it a TRY...
>
> -Paul

You want either Digital Video Essentials (2003) or the Avia disk. Both
are great and will do the same job helping you calibrate your TV and
your audio.

--
David G.

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Lot's of people view things differently. Televisions adjustments are like
choosing a red or white with fish. Your choice!

Take the show/movie you like best play around with the settings and when you
say WOW! That looks great!

Your done!

I can get my scopes and meters and set every component to spec. I may not
like the picture, but I can comfort myself knowing it's all in spec!




"ComedyBoyDC" <consumer12345@aol.com> wrote in message
news 58a264e.0406151307.43155fa4@posting.google.com...
>I am about to purchase a Sony 34HS510 direct-view CRT. I was told it
> tends to push red slightly, and that with ANY set i purchase, i should
> also get a calibration disk to adjust the color/contrast, etc... So,
> the question is obvious. What do you all think is the best
> Calibration disk for my HDTV? Or perhaps the best one for HDTV and
> surround sound audio systems as well?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Paul
>
> P.S. Oh, and i am NOT spending $200 to get it professionally
> calibrated...this TV is almost breaking the bank as it is!