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ATI pissed me off

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February 2, 2007 2:59:20 PM

I know this probably gonna get me in trouble with the partisans, but damn it, ATI really irks me.

Needless to say that Catalyst CCC 7.1 is garbage, and I'm on 6.12. I just switched to a x1950 pro AGP from an 6800gt. What I find most annoying is the two things that is missing. What makes it worse is that nVidia had these two features all along, since like more than two years ago.

1. Color calibration wizard. They help you get the gamma, brightness all tuned as part of the ForceWare system tray widget. Anyone know of a third party tool that is good a calibrating the video card's colors. I have the monitor calibrated already.

2. Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling for LCD panels. What make it even more annoying is that there is some evidence that it exists for some x700 radeon mobility on some laptop somwhere. Granted I got the x1950 pro for the 22" Samsung and for doing Company of Heroes at 1680x1050, it is nonetheless annoying to see the 4:3 aspect ratio of StarCraft stretched to 16:10, which is to say CCC's "Scale Image to Panel Size" is worthless. I wanted the darn thing to scaled to fill 1400x1050 pixels with bars on the side. Is that so hard to do? Heck even 3dMark03/05 which by default runs at 1024x768 gets stretched. That is just annoying.

3. I said two, but heck I'm dual booting XP and Linux. Anyone know of Radeon drive support for x1950 pro, and I mean 3D support even if it gets lousy frame rates.

4. I don't think this really counts, but 3dMark03 has been crashing to desktop occasionally, ususally (50% of the time it happens) on the first run immediately after fresh hard boot/cold boot/hard reset. It doesn't crash in the runs immediately afterwards. I'm not sure if it is board stability or ATI's drivers at fault. Anyone know?

Thanks for any advice and any two cent contributions and comments.

More about : ati pissed

a b U Graphics card
February 2, 2007 5:58:32 PM

You seem to keep bitching about the same issues (or making up new strawmen [don't want to calibrate my monitor when changing hardware :roll: ]) pretending to be surprised by them and that it's something new to you, yet you posted the same thing just months ago;

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

Just visit the forums every time there's a new driver issue for nV to try and balance things out or really what's with the game playing like this is something you didn't know about? You mention the MRX700 because I proved to you it's available on my rig, and if you actually checked the forums you'd see it's available to others, just like I posted last time as well;

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/images/e/e2/F...

That's an X1600, so don't BS about it only being the one.

Don't act like you're surprised trying to convince the n00bs that you're someone who just discovered this. :roll:

As for tweaking your settings, look harder homer, just like last time. And if you were to change from the GF6800 to G80 you would have to change your settings again due to the change in colour palatte, but of course you don't want the best picture you're looking to bitch.

Like your last ranty post, seems like you've got an axe to grind more than any issue you need solved, and based on your posts it seems like an axe provided by nV.
February 2, 2007 6:05:25 PM

Nice catch, Ape.

Funny that in his old post he complained about the .NET framework... now that the Nvidia drivers are using it as well, no more complaint. :roll:
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February 2, 2007 6:15:32 PM

Well lets put you to clowns to the task.

Where the heck is the Catalyst CCC that has that extra radio button "scale image - mainatain aspect ratio" for the x1950 pro? I looked high and low for that version and I can't find.

Show me where the heck I can download that and I'll be quiet. Show it to the rest of the community we can all use the help. The problem is that it isn't available except on your system. I'd say maybe ATI paid you to photoshop that screenshot. Show where to download the thing for x1950 pro and I'll retract the accusation.
a b U Graphics card
February 2, 2007 6:17:03 PM

Yeah, if he had a valid gripe, he'd have followed the original recommendation of contacting ATi or the Catalyst crew at Rage3D.

BTW, is it just me or is calibrating the monitor a natural expectation?

Whether it's my 2 work computers (laptop [intel] and desktop [with intel and S3]) or my home computers, every time I switch I gotta monkey with the settings and use a colour calibrator (heck the intels never drive enough K always have to monkey wih the settings and overbright the display and push the colour temp on the monitor).
February 2, 2007 6:27:58 PM

Quote:
Well lets put you to clowns to the task.


I can figure out how to use drivers, and I'm the clown?

Seriously, if you didn't come in here with an obvious chip on your shoulder I'd be more inclined to help/agree with you.

As it is - with a history of one-sided ranting - it's hard to care enough to take your concern seriously...
February 2, 2007 6:28:55 PM

It centers, but then is is 640x480 or 1024x768 out of 1680x1050. It would be using less than 25% of the screen.
February 2, 2007 6:32:28 PM

Mr. Ape

The monitor is already calibrated against a reference. Now the video card needs its color maps calibrated. Or is it your opinion that the video card doesn't need color calibration and all calibration should be done on the monitor?

And where is that driver, I really would like to be able to get the darn thing to scale the way I want.
February 2, 2007 6:37:17 PM

And Mr. Cleeve,

I don't wish to call you a liar, but last I checked, 93.71 Forceware located here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html

Didn't have a .NET requirement. If it were for nVidia to be so stupid in not producing a competitive AGP card to the x1950 pro AGP, I wouldn't have to be putting up with this kind of crap.

And don't get me started on ATI tech support, I'm way more pissed off at them.
February 2, 2007 6:45:38 PM

.NET is inevitable, it's a requirement for Vista dude.

We can go back and forth all you like but in the end, everybody has to have it... if I'm mistaken and Nvidia is still dragging their feet, it'll soon be rectified.
a b U Graphics card
February 2, 2007 6:45:38 PM

Quote:
.
Where the heck is the Catalyst CCC that has that extra radio button "scale image - mainatain aspect ratio" for the x1950 pro? I looked high and low for that version and I can't find.


It's all of them, you just need to actually have the hardware that grants you the feature, and you can hack it in too, but obviously you didn't follow my first suggestion or you'd know that. Have you to this day even bothered downloading the drivers for your monitor? Oh yeah that's right you don't wanna bother with your mointor. Like I told you last time, read the statement on it and stop ranting about something you already know and pretend you're suprised by.

So once again, why the show to pretend this is news to you?

You've had a chip on your shoulder from the start man, and this game you're playing makes it look like there's an obvious reason for it.

F'in Troll!
February 2, 2007 6:48:29 PM

Well Mr StrangeStranger,

I'll admit I am a newbie, given that haven't had much time with the x1950 pro just yet. But the fact remains, that the monitor may help mitigate the problem , though not my LG 1980, and my Samsung 225bw only seems to scale to full screen for things less than 1050 pixel tall. In any case neither has a on screen menu like the Dell 2007. But it shouldn't be about the monitor, it should be about the video card. Even the lowly 6600gt has this capability.
February 2, 2007 6:48:34 PM

Quote:
Needless to say that Catalyst CCC 7.1 is garbage, and I'm on 6.12. I just switched to a x1950 pro AGP from an 6800gt. What I find most annoying is the two things that is missing. What makes it worse is that nVidia had these two features all along, since like more than two years ago.

2. Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling for LCD panels. What make it even more annoying is that there is some evidence that it exists for some x700 radeon mobility on some laptop somwhere. Granted I got the x1950 pro for the 22" Samsung and for doing Company of Heroes at 1680x1050, it is nonetheless annoying to see the 4:3 aspect ratio of StarCraft stretched to 16:10, which is to say CCC's "Scale Image to Panel Size" is worthless. I wanted the darn thing to scaled to fill 1400x1050 pixels with bars on the side. Is that so hard to do? Heck even 3dMark03/05 which by default runs at 1024x768 gets stretched. That is just annoying.


I'm using an X1900AIW with CCC 7.1 in Windows Vista no less
in Advanced View > Digital Panel Properties > Attributes
i can select "Scale image to full size panel" or "Use centered timings"

your issue is on the monitor, and by now Stargate should have got Widescreen support, if not i'm sure there is a way you can add in your resolution to the game files, do a little research before you speak.
February 2, 2007 7:09:29 PM

Mr. Crazypro,

I've done plenty of research that is why it being brought up here. Just because some laptop ATI mobility has the function doesn't mean it is available to all ATI users. I have a x850xt and 9800xt running that I've been keeping up for the past two years thru all different versions of Catalyst with the Control Panel and now CCC (with .NET that I really didn't want, bloatware), and thru it all, those two things have been missing.

Moreover, we can work around the problem via the monitor or the applications, but at some point it really isn't about the monitor or the applications. It is about ATI implementation of their drivers. I'm not saying nVidia is perfect (For whatever its worth, the 6800gt hardware mpeg acceleration still have some issue auto detecting and handling de-interlacing of the mpeg so I always had to manually override its autodetection when it messes up 10% of DVDs) , but these two should be easy things for an organization like ATI to get right.
February 2, 2007 7:12:13 PM

I am surprised these guys are even trying to help you at all.
February 2, 2007 7:17:35 PM

Calling me a F'introll, a noob, etc. etc. is all nice and wonderful. I respect your right to free speech. Chip on the shoulder or not, my claim is that these things are missing for the x1950pro, can any of you prove me wrong?

I was hoping that someone out here will have the drivers what have the features or know how to turn them on via some registry edit or something. Or a third party app that can help with color calibration. It seems CCC had intended to permit a third party app to do that. I would like to know it such an example exists, because I'm having trouble locating one.

Name the driver, name the app, provide links to them, and these two issues will be off the table for good. I'm not sure you can help with ATI support, but that is whole other problem.
February 2, 2007 7:18:54 PM

Try the omega drivers and see how it fairs for you. I dont use them, but they may have the feature you are looking for. Just out of curiosity, could you explain to me why you hate .NET Framework so much? I have never had a problem with it and see no affects what so ever. Also I have had cards from both card companies (just to clarify that I dont sway one way or the other. I do have favorites as anyone else does, but I always take performance over brand loyalty.) I have always enjoyed ATI monthly driver updates. Keeps me on my toes...lol

http://www.omegadrivers.net/

Best,

3Ball
February 2, 2007 7:25:06 PM

Mr. Ape

You talk about the hardware granting you the feature. Are you suggesting that the bios/flash roms on the x1950 needs to be modified? Or is that the x1950 pro just can't supported and I'm simply plain out of luck? In any case CCC or the drivers maybe unfairly named/targetted, but bottom line is ATI is responsible for producing such a thing.

Tim
February 2, 2007 7:30:35 PM

AHHHHHHHHHH!! LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!







- Gary
February 2, 2007 7:42:16 PM

Quote:
Calling me a F'introll, a noob, etc. etc. is all nice and wonderful. I respect your right to free speech. Chip on the shoulder or not, my claim is that these things are missing for the x1950pro, can any of you prove me wrong?

I was hoping that someone out here will have the drivers what have the features or know how to turn them on via some registry edit or something. Or a third party app that can help with color calibration. It seems CCC had intended to permit a third party app to do that. I would like to know it such an example exists, because I'm having trouble locating one.

Name the driver, name the app, provide links to them, and these two issues will be off the table for good. I'm not sure you can help with ATI support, but that is whole other problem.


sir, the problem here is, you're bitching, whinning to every person that is triying to help you and giving you solutions, in short words..
you're a MORON and you deserve NO HELP.
February 2, 2007 7:48:32 PM

Mr. tamalero

Just how are you trying to help?
February 2, 2007 7:54:49 PM

Don't know if this is still a valid "hack" but you used to be able to install the old control panel (from ATI's archives... its like 5.12 or something) and then update the driver without having to upgrade to the CCC. I don't know if this is anywhere near what your issue is or if it even still works, but I never really liked the CCC because I felt it was bloated, sluggish, and a bit too difficult to work with. Then again they may have fixed that now, I'm talking about the first few revisions of it on my 9800pro. If the CCC vs CP is anything like nVidia's new vs old CP, the old one had more settings/flexibility. Try that. (If you can decipher my ramblings)

-mcg
February 2, 2007 8:05:53 PM

BTW any of you ATI worshippers what to tell me how ATI can get away with a reference design, that has been copied by the likes of Sapphire, Powercolor, GeCube, etc. that doesn't have proper VRM cooling for the x1950 pro? How the heck does ATI let that out the door.

Or how in the past how ATI's boards all required us to up the AGP voltage to be stable? Even the ones that said made by ATI. I'm sure nVidia has problems too, but I've not got bitten this bad by them.
February 2, 2007 8:16:32 PM

Quote:
F'in troll


Well said (I like the smiley, too).

Are you looking for help or are you looking to rant? I've said it before and I'll say it again: rants are for blogs.

I've personally have always liked ATi, mainly because I like the VIVO connection, and Intel chipsets support x-fire. I've actually had more problems with nVidia drivers than ATi.

Neither nVidia nor ATi are without their driver woes. The good thing is that there's a LOT of community support with regards to video driver issues (like Omega drivers, for instance).

Chill out, google a bit, and I'm sure you'll resolve your issues. Insulting the forum veterans (by calling them clowns) is unnecessary. They're both knowledgable and willing to help, as long as you're not a total dickhead.
February 2, 2007 8:19:12 PM

wow, this drama is almost two pages long. Better than the Lifetime channel. :wink:
February 2, 2007 8:20:17 PM

Quote:
BTW any of you ATI worshippers what to tell me how ATI can get away with a reference design, that has been copied by the likes of Sapphire, Powercolor, GeCube, etc. that doesn't have proper VRM cooling for the x1950 pro? How the heck does ATI let that out the door.

Or how in the past how ATI's boards all required us to up the AGP voltage to be stable? Even the ones that said made by ATI. I'm sure nVidia has problems too, but I've not got bitten this bad by them.


You're (knowingly) exaggerating the facts. You need to chill before you get banned and/or get this thread locked. If you want help, ask. Otherwise, expect some lockage on this ASAP.
February 2, 2007 8:20:21 PM

Quote:
wow, this drama is almost two pages long. Better than the Lifetime channel. :wink:


:lol: 
February 2, 2007 8:28:35 PM

WTF? You're bitching about past sins now?

Funny you haven't mentioned the entire dismal FX generation of cards, a blunder which trumps a no-longer relevant AGP voltage issue you claim is a problem. The FX series can still be bought in stores...

Or how about talk about Nvidia's CURRENT DAY drivers that cause mipmap shimmering at default settings?

Or how the new Nvidia control panel is a friggin illogical nightmare, with many of the DVD image sharpening and inverse telecine controls hidden within a nested, advanced 'video color' menu - items that have absolutely nothing to do with color?

More CURRENT DAY stuff.. how SLI'd cards don't work properly with some video playback features? That's right, it's been a year now and SLI setups still won't output 1080i... even SLI'd 8800s.

Seriously dude. I don't even dislike Nvidia, they make great cards... both Nvidia and Ati rock, IMHO... but if you're going to pretend only one manufacturer makes a blunder now & again, I'll be happy to remind you that it's far from a one-sided show.
February 2, 2007 8:28:58 PM

I'll concede I knowingly exaggerated somewhat. But there is certainly truth or half-truths behind them.

That aside, I needed to get the attention of the knowledgeable, so I might find a real solution to the two issues. I have googled, searched, and looked, and it is either really obvious and I'm missing something that is hidden in plain sight or it is really something that does NOT really bother too many people, but nonetheless are still problems. The title of the thread was clearly misleading, but without it, I'd get very little response like this one:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/x1950-Pro-AGP-c...
February 2, 2007 8:32:28 PM

Quote:
Mr. tamalero

Just how are you trying to help?

How was THAT post supposed to help? :roll:

Seriously though. If you let little stuff like that slide and just lighten up a bit you might get more positive replies.

-mcg
February 2, 2007 8:32:36 PM

You don't get the right type of attention from the knowledgeable by rants and fanboyism.
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2007 12:18:59 AM

Quote:
BTW any of you ATI worshippers what to tell me how ATI can get away with a reference design, that has been copied by the likes of Sapphire, Powercolor, GeCube, etc. that doesn't have proper VRM cooling for the x1950 pro? How the heck does ATI let that out the door.


The same way that nVidia let the eVGA GF7900s out the door with their massive issues. There's only so much the IHV can do once the chips are in the board-partners' hands. nV and ATi need the OEMs just as much as they need them, especially with the number of them who have switched or produce both solutions.

Both have their issues, in hardware and software.
As for colour calibration, I'm sure Cleeve and others have had to go through that with multiple vendours, and really it's not that hard to solve. I know I've had to go through it for, 5 different vendours in the last 2 years. Do some research it's easier than you make it out to be.

Quote:
I'll concede I knowingly exaggerated somewhat. But there is certainly truth or half-truths behind them.


Yeah, exactly, for the purpose of trolling. Once again you put on a show like I said before it wasn't to get information it's to grind your little axe.

BTW, the reason your other thread got ignored by the 'knowledgeable' is because they remembered you from last time, and said F'-that noise! :roll:
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2007 1:27:34 AM

(sighs in disbelief at the stupidity of the OP's post and hits back button)
February 3, 2007 5:09:14 AM

Quote:
Mr. tamalero

Just how are you trying to help?

Im not helping, Im giving you a lesson in manners, acting like a retard, a kid, annoying people helping you, will get you NOWHERE.

and like many said here before, a Pro in photography should learn to calibrate already, if not, go buy these cheap PANTONE devices ( less than 90 US for a pro calibration thingie )
but since you said you are a "PRO".. I supose you knew already.. RIGHT?????
February 13, 2007 6:04:19 PM

Mr. Ape,

It's been two weeks, where are the darn drivers?

And too date ATI still has NOT got a color calibration wizard as part of CCC. In any case if I wanted to compare one video card to another using the same monitor as reference, the monitor certainly shouldn't be mucked up for one or the other, as to bias the comparison test. I thought geniuses like you can understand, but then again you are all just a bunch ATI partisan and worshippers. All you do is deem these issue "straw man", belittle them, and say they are not real issues. But it doesn't change the fact that the problems remain.
February 13, 2007 6:17:36 PM

No it doesn't, but the serious problems remain on both sides. So acting like Ati is the only vendor that has issues to work out is kind of fanboyish.

Where's the 8800's certified DirectX 10 driver? Isn't there a lawsuit about that now, it's advertised on the 8800 box and still no driver?

It's still been year now, where's the ability to use 1080i with SLI? Still not supported in the driver...

Nobody's perfect. :) 
February 13, 2007 6:21:10 PM

*point's and laughs*
February 13, 2007 6:32:07 PM

It's most likely operator error. After all, you can't even figure out how to use the reply function.
February 13, 2007 6:50:00 PM

These people are trying to help you and because of your stupitity you insult and berate them. Are you capable of having a normal relationship with anyone?







"Knowledge has never been known to enter the head through an open mouth", Anonymous
February 13, 2007 6:55:51 PM

So... you think some calibration wizard could do a better job than a manual adjustment of your monitor? Unless you've spent hundreds on one of those spider color calibrators you'll always get better results doing it yourself... and nobody who really cares about image quality would buy an nvidia card from the 7000s series when there was an equally priced ati card, unless they were running linux... In which case its your loss since ati has terrible linux drivers and doesn't really care.
a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2007 6:55:54 PM

Quote:
Mr. Ape,

It's been two weeks, where are the darn drivers?


Just curious it's been 4 months, have you installed your monitor drivers yet? :roll:

Have you even bothered contacting AMD/ATi (without the BS, and just a patient rational question?). For all the time you spent here, you should know the answer to your question. But really like I said before, you likely already know the answer because I and others already told you, you just don't really care in getting things working you just want to make noise.

You call people partisans, but like I said, you're the only one here putting on a show for effect.
February 13, 2007 9:01:44 PM

Hey Cleeve

No one is acting as it is only ATI that has problems. It is the interpretation of partisans that gets that kind of notion. nVidia has got nVidia problems, but we are discussing ATI problems here.

And no I am not some uppity snobbish photography nitwit. I work with plenty of those and I am for the most part pretty lousy at distinguishing colors. But is it too much to ask that ATI provide such a simple thing?

Who is being unreasonable here?
February 13, 2007 10:27:27 PM

have you tried the omega drivers yet to see if that does anything???
a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2007 10:27:35 PM

OK I ask myself, whos the bigger fool? Me or the OP? Ive sat and read this whole post and ir goes nowhere. Dude go back to mama, she wont fix it but shell make it alll better. I get the feeling if someone handed you a ton of gold you wouldnt be happy with the color. People here have offered help (at this point I dont know why) such as optional drivers for card and monitor etc. At this point if you cant ake anything anyone here has given you and you cant help yourself, then sell your damn computer and buy a xbox
February 13, 2007 11:27:10 PM

I do not usually post. But, 4skin (or whatever your name is), they have given you some recommendations. And the answer is there.

I have an X1950 Pro with 256 meg memory. I have the expand to screen and centered timing. Yep, aspect ratio did not seem to follow quiet right. I switched to Omega, and OMG, they have an Expand maintain Aspect.

Granted, I am not running such a high resolution monitor as you are. Mine is just an HD TV, 2750W from Viewsonic (and I do not recommend this, get a real comp monitor folks). But for my failing eyesight, it works like awesome.

As for calibration, if you do photos, normally, this is done with the monitor. Most photo geeks know this though, right?

PS: mine is not an ATI, it is a Diamond and the control panels for their software may be why this did not have the maintain aspect ratio. So I looked for alternatives.
February 14, 2007 1:04:26 AM

Quote:
Who is being unreasonable here?


IMHO, it's the guy who titled his post "ATI pissed me off".

You're focusing on brand hatred, not solving a problem. If you had approached this with some tact, your responses would have been much more to your liking.
February 14, 2007 1:30:45 AM

Now, now, Mr. Cleeve.

Where in the original was there plain old brand hatred? If I hated ATI so much, why the heck did I buy a ATI board? Who is that lack a sense of humor? Who was it, Mr. Ape, that had to go drag in old crap from days gone by? I didn't even name anyone in the original post.

For crying out loud if you searched forms for stuff like "sucks" and "pissed" etc. you find endless crapola of the sorts. In beside in the old post, it was opinionated response that the original poster of that thread asked for, so obviously that was going to be rant. But Mr. Ape had to get this one tangled in with that one. Isn't that just hilarious, seems like he had something to prove.

And where ATI falls short, we have to go around it with monitor tweaks, motherboards tweaks, 3rd party apps etc? Come on tell me why should we cut ATI that much slack? When nVidia pisses me off, they'll get the same treatment.
February 14, 2007 1:40:14 AM

S4,

Sorry you found Cleeve to be a clown...

Somehow NOBODY else has found this to be true....

The Ape can be an Ape sometimes but is also extremely knowledgeable about the graphics world.

So in summary,

You come into the community as a new person (can't stand the other reference) and then decide to pick a topic for which Cleeve and Ape can dance circles around most in the industry and then proceed to call them clowns.

Good for you, I am sure you will go places with that attitude.
February 14, 2007 1:58:07 AM

So,have you tried the Omega drivers,or even DNA drivers (for ATi).Who knows you might find what you want/need....try Guru3D
February 14, 2007 1:14:41 PM

Maybe you're right and you shouldn't have used more tact.

Then again, the responses you have garnered would seem to support my conclusion...

As well, other people have had problems with a video card and have not gotten the flavor of replies you have managed to get.

Why do you think that is, if not your candor? The evidence would suggest that something you've written separates yourself from the average person in need of help.

You can't argue with the results.
!