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AMD's Barcelona to "stink" in ORACLE

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February 2, 2007 3:45:45 PM

Quote:
http://kevinclosson.wordpress.com/2007/01/25/amd-quad-c...


To be fair .... here is a negative view on the power of Barcelona in an Oracle Environment


I just replied to that. It looks like the same "AMD can't hit those numbers" crap.

Like I told him, C2D and C2Q in the same mobo shows improvements and everyone says Opteron is not bandwidth saturated so Barcelona will just use more of the existing bandwidth. If they go to HT3, it will have even more bandwidth.

He even suggested that Barcelona is for Socket F rather than Socket F+. His Oracle stuff was interesting up until this.
February 2, 2007 4:36:14 PM

Quote:
i would think that if barcelona was so good they would be showing off some early benches to piss off intel and stem the tide of people buying new systems right now, so they can wait for barcelona.


Good point but if the chips aren't ready/stable enough for benches then how would they get any benches? People are wanting benches for something that is going to be release ~6 months from now. If they were ready now then they would be released in a month or two, not 6.
Related resources
February 2, 2007 4:44:59 PM

Quote:
we havent even seen any benches from barcelona. IMO it is too early to guess at what its going to be like. I suspect it will flop like 4x4 did. they kept 4x4 all secret up until the release also and it bombed. i would think that if barcelona was so good they would be showing off some early benches to piss off intel and stem the tide of people buying new systems right now, so they can wait for barcelona. but then again what do i know


QFX is not a flop. All of you idiots were actually thinking AMD was trying to compete with C2Q. It wasn't. It was a show of innovation and a way to differentiate FX and X4. The only previous difference was an unlocked multiplier.

How could they expect 4 cores to overpower 4 cores that are clock for clock faster? It still may end up my next upgrade if AMD raises the RAM to 8GB.

Barcelona is a 90% new core. The specs have impressed everyone that saw them. Even more info has come out since the first analysis last year. Who are you?

Barcelona is a BEAST. PERIOD! The only way to beat K8 is to have more available sockets. Itanium goes up to 64 and Power goes to 64. They are the leaders of TPC-C.

I think Barcelona at 16 sockets (64 cores) will actually crack at least the Top 20, maybe even the Top 10. It depends on how good their L3 logic is as that and unganging should make that happen. At the minimum L3 will allow eight 1 hop NUMA nodes rather than the 4 possible now.
February 2, 2007 4:49:34 PM

Quote:
is it any farther along than penryn?
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5657
no one knows and that is what worries me


Since when has AMD EVER had the resources to intro things the way Intel does? Considering that May release means going to production now, there will be benches soon with ES chips.
February 2, 2007 4:55:28 PM

Well, but i remember the way K7 was introduced.
They leaked some integer benchmarks (on Tom's, where it was presented as "unknown x86 CPU") where it totally sucked, and then, a couple of months later, bam!, it was trouncing the Pentium 3.
Barcelona, unless they have clock problems, will be awesome. (that's my not-so-uneducated guess)
February 2, 2007 5:02:52 PM

Quote:
Well, but i remember the way K7 was introduced.
They leaked some integer benchmarks (on Tom's, where it was presented as "unknown x86 CPU") where it totally sucked, and then, a couple of months later, bam!, it was trouncing the Pentium 3.
Barcelona, unless they have clock problems, will be awesome. (that's my not-so-uneducated guess)


We agree on that. With the dual planes for CPU/IMC, DDR2 should actually be able to run at the rated speeds with default clocks. At least I hope so. That should increase perf for the dual cores.
February 2, 2007 5:21:43 PM

Quote:
[
QFX is not a flop.


lol
February 2, 2007 5:38:50 PM

Quote:
All of you idiots


Now I see the light. Charming.
February 2, 2007 5:40:38 PM

Quote:
This guy is a loser :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  hes already victimizing himself with everyone. :lol:  :lol: 


I'd hardly say that. If you read through the comments, you'll see the commenter made a math error, called Kevin a moron on another board, only to realize his error. The commenter apologized to Kevin on the message board.
February 2, 2007 5:46:04 PM

Quote:
I blog here about Oracle-specific AMD Quad-core Barcelona topics only to discover that I’m being slashed over in some reader board of volunteer agoraphobic geeks who spend eleventeen hours a day tweaking out on Red Bull and Twinkies playing multi-user PC games.

what the hell is a multi-user PC game?
February 2, 2007 5:55:46 PM

Barcelona- and R600-powered Quad FX 2.0, *commence the drool*
February 2, 2007 6:10:40 PM

Quote:
Barcelona- and R600-powered Quad FX 2.0, *commence the drool*


Commencing HyperDrool 3.0L :lol:  MMmmmm My liquid nitrogen dreams of R600 @ Crossfire and QFX Barcelona
February 2, 2007 6:11:58 PM

Quote:
Well, but i remember the way K7 was introduced.
They leaked some integer benchmarks (on Tom's, where it was presented as "unknown x86 CPU") where it totally sucked, and then, a couple of months later, bam!, it was trouncing the Pentium 3.
Barcelona, unless they have clock problems, will be awesome. (that's my not-so-uneducated guess)


Actually it was sept 1999...and firing squad has a ES sample Athlon..the orginal and it sucked... i remember the INTEL faitheful were laughing like drunk hyenas...until release day...and the p3 got crushed....

people forget all about that ...
February 2, 2007 6:19:14 PM

Quote:
All of you idiots


Now I see the light. Charming.

Did you really think 2 extra cores would make a difference when the 2 cores aren't faster? If so, what can I say.
February 2, 2007 6:21:02 PM

Quote:
Well, but i remember the way K7 was introduced.
They leaked some integer benchmarks (on Tom's, where it was presented as "unknown x86 CPU") where it totally sucked, and then, a couple of months later, bam!, it was trouncing the Pentium 3.
Barcelona, unless they have clock problems, will be awesome. (that's my not-so-uneducated guess)


Actually it was sept 1999...and firing squad has a ES sample Athlon..the orginal and it sucked... i remember the INTEL faitheful were laughing like drunk hyenas...until release day...and the p3 got crushed....

people forget all about that ...

I was hoping you would post in this thread.
:roll:
February 2, 2007 6:36:39 PM

By releasing a quad core type setup not to long after the introduction of commercially available Core 2 Quad chips, you're saying AMD had absolutely no interest in trying to compete with Intel?
February 2, 2007 6:56:38 PM

Quote:
By releasing a quad core type setup not to long after the introduction of commercially available Core 2 Quad chips, you're saying AMD had absolutely no interest in trying to compete with Intel?


Yeah, he's(BM) in a complete state of denial agian...convenient, huh? His logic blows like the wind. :roll:
February 2, 2007 6:57:55 PM

Quote:
Did you really think 2 extra cores would make a difference when the 2 cores aren't faster? If so, what can I say.


If you are CPU bound, then extra cores can help.
February 2, 2007 7:46:48 PM

I think that what the author was pointing out was that Oracle's licensing model was per socket, not per core. The barcelona would have to be more than 100% faster to break even on that licensing model.

The fact that the author doubts that the barcelona can't even make the projected 70% gain is just a side issue.
February 2, 2007 8:26:47 PM

Quote:
It (QFX:edit) still may end up my next upgrade if AMD raises the RAM to 8GB.


Heh... seems that as time goes on you're less and less sure about getting the QFX. I wonder what you're excuse for not wasting your money will be when 8GB of ram is affordable (<$1000).
February 2, 2007 8:47:27 PM

Quote:
we havent even seen any benches from barcelona. IMO it is too early to guess at what its going to be like. I suspect it will flop like 4x4 did. they kept 4x4 all secret up until the release also and it bombed. i would think that if barcelona was so good they would be showing off some early benches to piss off intel and stem the tide of people buying new systems right now, so they can wait for barcelona. but then again what do i know


QFX is not a flop. All of you idiots were actually thinking AMD was trying to compete with C2Q. It wasn't. It was a show of innovation and a way to differentiate FX and X4. The only previous difference was an unlocked multiplier.

*Boggle* How is QFX innovation? We've had multiprocessor Motherboards for years working together to do multiple things at once. How can you say this is innovative when the technology has been around since the 90s effectively.

Quote:
How could they expect 4 cores to overpower 4 cores that are clock for clock faster? It still may end up my next upgrade if AMD raises the RAM to 8GB.


When AMD hypes it that it will be C2Q and doesn't even come close in the fast majority of benchmarks, barely beats in only a couple, and everything else runs pretty much dead heat, one has to wonder.

Quote:
Barcelona is a 90% new core. The specs have impressed everyone that saw them. Even more info has come out since the first analysis last year. Who are you?


Until AMD shows something other than Task Manager, I'm going to wait and see. Right now, AMD isn't showing everyone the best face.

Quote:
Barcelona is a BEAST. PERIOD! The only way to beat K8 is to have more available sockets. Itanium goes up to 64 and Power goes to 64. They are the leaders of TPC-C.


Come back and say this when you have some benchmarks, until you have benchmarks it's all supposition and I hate supposition. Give me facts or leave you conjecture out of it.

Quote:
I think Barcelona at 16 sockets (64 cores) will actually crack at least the Top 20, maybe even the Top 10. It depends on how good their L3 logic is as that and unganging should make that happen. At the minimum L3 will allow eight 1 hop NUMA nodes rather than the 4 possible now.


Again, give me Benchmarks and then we can talk. Until AMD finally releases this for people to play with, I'm going to wait and see. Hard numbers will give me a better idea or not and right now, there's nothing out there.
February 2, 2007 9:08:16 PM

Quote:


Barcelona is a BEAST. PERIOD! The only way to beat K8 is to have more available sockets. Itanium goes up to 64 and Power goes to 64. They are the leaders of TPC-C.

I think Barcelona at 16 sockets (64 cores) will actually crack at least the Top 20, maybe even the Top 10. It depends on how good their L3 logic is as that and unganging should make that happen. At the minimum L3 will allow eight 1 hop NUMA nodes rather than the 4 possible now.


Baron,

For 3 months last year, I argued with the intelliots who were crying "C2D is a BEAST. PERIOD" because they had no factual data to back up thier claims.

You and a few others are now doing the same thing, building on unsubstantiated form AMDs marketeers. The only difference is that last year, you were on the other side of the table, calling the inteliots out when they were making unsubstanciated claims of "60-80% faster", or "2 times faster" or "40% faster". The C2Ds finally made it to market and we now know the truth.

Barcelona isnt jackshit. Barcelona inst going to be jackshit until a retail version is in the hands of a credible individual or organization who can test it fairly and provide results. Then, and only then, it may be proven to be either crap, or the greatest invention since sliced bread.

This situation is shaping up exactly like the pre release of C2D last year. Exactly. He were are in pre ES, and people are making unsubstantiated claims 40%, 3.6 times, 400%...etc. Bullshite. Barcelona does not yet exist out side of prototype silicon and nobody here, you included, knows anything about its true potential. The few AMD engineers or techs who actually do know someing and might possibly read this forum certainly arent going to talk about it, even if they wanted to.

For the love of peace and harmony, lets all just STFU and wait for the news rather than making guesses and fallacious or misguided statements. Lets avoid the same BS that went on last year with C2D, and just wait to see what reality brings, be it good or bad.
February 2, 2007 9:09:46 PM

Quote:
we havent even seen any benches from barcelona. IMO it is too early to guess at what its going to be like. I suspect it will flop like 4x4 did. they kept 4x4 all secret up until the release also and it bombed. i would think that if barcelona was so good they would be showing off some early benches to piss off intel and stem the tide of people buying new systems right now, so they can wait for barcelona. but then again what do i know


QFX is not a flop. All of you idiots were actually thinking AMD was trying to compete with C2Q. It wasn't. It was a show of innovation and a way to differentiate FX and X4. The only previous difference was an unlocked multiplier.

*Boggle* How is QFX innovation? We've had multiprocessor Motherboards for years working together to do multiple things at once. How can you say this is innovative when the technology has been around since the 90s effectively.

Quote:
How could they expect 4 cores to overpower 4 cores that are clock for clock faster? It still may end up my next upgrade if AMD raises the RAM to 8GB.


When AMD hypes it that it will be C2Q and doesn't even come close in the fast majority of benchmarks, barely beats in only a couple, and everything else runs pretty much dead heat, one has to wonder.

Quote:
Barcelona is a 90% new core. The specs have impressed everyone that saw them. Even more info has come out since the first analysis last year. Who are you?


Until AMD shows something other than Task Manager, I'm going to wait and see. Right now, AMD isn't showing everyone the best face.

Quote:
Barcelona is a BEAST. PERIOD! The only way to beat K8 is to have more available sockets. Itanium goes up to 64 and Power goes to 64. They are the leaders of TPC-C.


Come back and say this when you have some benchmarks, until you have benchmarks it's all supposition and I hate supposition. Give me facts or leave you conjecture out of it.

Quote:
I think Barcelona at 16 sockets (64 cores) will actually crack at least the Top 20, maybe even the Top 10. It depends on how good their L3 logic is as that and unganging should make that happen. At the minimum L3 will allow eight 1 hop NUMA nodes rather than the 4 possible now.


Again, give me Benchmarks and then we can talk. Until AMD finally releases this for people to play with, I'm going to wait and see. Hard numbers will give me a better idea or not and right now, there's nothing out there.


You're just one of those can't be pleased people. I'm no even going to respond as it's the same thing I always see.
February 2, 2007 10:46:14 PM

Quote:
You're just one of those can't be pleased people. I'm no even going to respond as it's the same thing I always see.


*Edited By Moderator*
February 2, 2007 11:10:26 PM

Quote:
You're just one of those can't be pleased people. I'm no even going to respond as it's the same thing I always see.

STFU dickhead!
And get a life!
Do you need a refresher course of the forum rules? Or do you think you can just break the rules because you have X number of posts? Posts like this are an embarrassment. :?
February 2, 2007 11:15:31 PM

Quote:
You're just one of those can't be pleased people. I'm no even going to respond as it's the same thing I always see.

STFU dickhead!
And get a life!
Do you need a refresher course of the forum rules? Or do you think you can just break the rules because you have X number of posts? Posts like this are an embarrassment. :?You can counter BS only with BS.
February 2, 2007 11:16:46 PM

Quote:


Barcelona is a BEAST. PERIOD! The only way to beat K8 is to have more available sockets. Itanium goes up to 64 and Power goes to 64. They are the leaders of TPC-C.

I think Barcelona at 16 sockets (64 cores) will actually crack at least the Top 20, maybe even the Top 10. It depends on how good their L3 logic is as that and unganging should make that happen. At the minimum L3 will allow eight 1 hop NUMA nodes rather than the 4 possible now.


Baron,

For 3 months last year, I argued with the intelliots who were crying "C2D is a BEAST. PERIOD" because they had no factual data to back up thier claims.

You and a few others are now doing the same thing, building on unsubstantiated form AMDs marketeers. The only difference is that last year, you were on the other side of the table, calling the inteliots out when they were making unsubstanciated claims of "60-80% faster", or "2 times faster" or "40% faster". The C2Ds finally made it to market and we now know the truth.

Barcelona isnt jackshit. Barcelona inst going to be jackshit until a retail version is in the hands of a credible individual or organization who can test it fairly and provide results. Then, and only then, it may be proven to be either crap, or the greatest invention since sliced bread.

This situation is shaping up exactly like the pre release of C2D last year. Exactly. He were are in pre ES, and people are making unsubstantiated claims 40%, 3.6 times, 400%...etc. Bullshite. Barcelona does not yet exist out side of prototype silicon and nobody here, you included, knows anything about its true potential. The few AMD engineers or techs who actually do know someing and might possibly read this forum certainly arent going to talk about it, even if they wanted to.

For the love of peace and harmony, lets all just STFU and wait for the news rather than making guesses and fallacious or misguided statements. Lets avoid the same BS that went on last year with C2D, and just wait to see what reality brings, be it good or bad.


SO now you have some other non-existent statements to find. I remember the first thing I said when I saw COre benches:

Wow, they have really improved the pre-fetch mechanism. I actually thought the combination of "Smart-Cache" etc was an implementation of RHT.
February 2, 2007 11:17:49 PM

Quote:
You're just one of those can't be pleased people. I'm no even going to respond as it's the same thing I always see.

STFU dickhead!
And get a life!
Do you need a refresher course of the forum rules? Or do you think you can just break the rules because you have X number of posts? Posts like this are an embarrassment. :?You can counter BS only with BS.
Typical response from you. :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
February 2, 2007 11:21:06 PM



:)  One of a many --- my real point is more or less -- double standards. I have no doubt that Barcelona is going to be a big improvment, heck 1/3 of the architectural changes follow in the footsteps of Conroe....

However, AMD doesn't even show a bench mark, just an ambiguous claim of 40% in a range of benchmarks, and it is accepted as fact in many circles (well, to be fair, some HW sites called the claims bold :)  )... but C2D was up, running, demonstrated, and people were allowed to run their own demo files (AnandTech), inspect the bios, check the sys properties, look at what was running, version numbers etc..... and the results were met with immediate and harsh skepticism... I shared some of that skepticism to be sure, but not nearly as feverantly as some....

Technically, I will not trust in whole a body of data and conclusions coming from a company that is trying to sell me something, but I will not outright call them liars as well.... similarly, I will not reject the 40% claim AMD made, but with the ambiguity they have made it.... my skepticism is much more intense than it was with the Spring IDF Conroe benches....

Thanks for the link....

Jack
No problem.. I'm reading it and laughing my ass off. "Benchmarks lie!" ROTFL
February 2, 2007 11:25:40 PM



:)  One of a many --- my real point is more or less -- double standards. I have no doubt that Barcelona is going to be a big improvment, heck 1/3 of the architectural changes follow in the footsteps of Conroe....

However, AMD doesn't even show a bench mark, just an ambiguous claim of 40% in a range of benchmarks, and it is accepted as fact in many circles (well, to be fair, some HW sites called the claims bold :)  )... but C2D was up, running, demonstrated, and people were allowed to run their own demo files (AnandTech), inspect the bios, check the sys properties, look at what was running, version numbers etc..... and the results were met with immediate and harsh skepticism... I shared some of that skepticism to be sure, but not nearly as feverantly as some....

Technically, I will not trust in whole a body of data and conclusions coming from a company that is trying to sell me something, but I will not outright call them liars as well.... similarly, I will not reject the 40% claim AMD made, but with the ambiguity they have made it.... my skepticism is much more intense than it was with the Spring IDF Conroe benches....

Thanks for the link....

Jack
No problem.. I'm reading it and laughing my ass off. "Benchmarks lie!" ROTFL

I would like to get it on the record that there is not one post from me in that 9 pages.
February 2, 2007 11:28:25 PM

True, but there were a couple of people using that same generic avatar. Would've confused a lesser man, but not the Ninja! :p 
February 2, 2007 11:42:22 PM

Quote:
True, but there were a couple of people using that same generic avatar. Would've confused a lesser man, but not the Ninja! :p 


I just hope we can believe now that I never doubt what AMD or Intel says. It's much more fun figuring it out.
February 2, 2007 11:44:27 PM

Quote:


QFX is not a flop. All of you idiots were actually thinking AMD was trying to compete with C2Q. It wasn't. It was a show of innovation and a way to differentiate FX and X4.


Bollocks.
February 2, 2007 11:55:43 PM

Quote:
...before we even see it run a single piece of software :) 

Some people actually believe that if you repeat something enough times that it will become the truth. :D 
February 3, 2007 12:01:08 AM

Here's what Sharikou has to say on the subject of K8L vs Intel's Clovertown + future processors.

Quote:
AMD says K8L will frag Clovertown by 40% on a wide range of benchmarks. Some think AMD was talking about floating point performance, which is simply wrong.

As I have shown here, a dual core Opteron system outperforms a quad core Clovertown system by 14% on SpecFP_rate. That is, 4 Opteron cores are 14% faster than 8 Clovertown cores. Now, we know a K8L is 3.6x faster than a K8 on FP. This would lead to the conclusion that K8L is about 5x the speed of Clovertown, as far as FP performance is concerned.

So, the 40% performance lead has to be integer performance.

In conlusion, K8L will be 400% faster than Clovertown on FP, and 40% faster than Clovertown on integer.

Watch this AMD interview on K8L yourself. Basically, AMD is saying that K8L is so advanced that nothing in Intel's known roadmap can catch up. In other words, not only Clovertown and Conroe will be fragged, the next generation of Intel is pre-fragged.

Intel BK by 2Q08, that what I said in 2006, and that is what will happen in 2Q08.


K8L, even though we have no benchmarks on it yet, is going to pre-frag all Intel's upcoming architectures :lol:  What does Sharikou smoke every day?!?!
February 3, 2007 12:02:17 AM

Quote:

SO now you have some other non-existent statements to find.


First, you are refering to my claim that you refered to C2D as a paper launch. I told you it would take time to sift through your 4000 some odd posts, and it has. I am far from finished, and I have not abandoned the search, nor forgotton about it. Understand that while I do have numerous threads in which you state availaiblity of C2D ranging from sept 06 to sometime in 07, I have not posted them as I claim you said "paper launch"...I did not say you implied paper launch and without the actual words "paper launch", then I am wrong. In all fairness to you I think it behooves me to prove this one way or the other..either validating my claim or giving you the appology which you may deserve.

Quote:
I remember the first thing I said when I saw COre benches: Wow, they have really improved the pre-fetch mechanism. I actually thought the combination of "Smart-Cache" etc was an implementation of RHT.


Second, please note I was NOT refering to the 3 months prior to Jul 27. I was refering to the 3 months AFTER the initial press releases. PRIOR to the C2D ES's release. During which time no one had any formal info/concrete proof and the Intel fanboys were making crap up as they went along.

Which is exactly the same situation we are in now. No one has concrete proof of anything. No Barcelona ESs havent even been released for testing. No one but the people who are working on the chip know anything factual/concrete about the chip. PERIOD
February 3, 2007 12:04:31 AM

Quote:
Here's what Sharikou has to say on the subject of K8L vs Intel's Clovertown + future processors.

AMD says K8L will frag Clovertown by 40% on a wide range of benchmarks. Some think AMD was talking about floating point performance, which is simply wrong.

As I have shown here, a dual core Opteron system outperforms a quad core Clovertown system by 14% on SpecFP_rate. That is, 4 Opteron cores are 14% faster than 8 Clovertown cores. Now, we know a K8L is 3.6x faster than a K8 on FP. This would lead to the conclusion that K8L is about 5x the speed of Clovertown, as far as FP performance is concerned.

So, the 40% performance lead has to be integer performance.

In conlusion, K8L will be 400% faster than Clovertown on FP, and 40% faster than Clovertown on integer.

Watch this AMD interview on K8L yourself. Basically, AMD is saying that K8L is so advanced that nothing in Intel's known roadmap can catch up. In other words, not only Clovertown and Conroe will be fragged, the next generation of Intel is pre-fragged.

Intel BK by 2Q08, that what I said in 2006, and that is what will happen in 2Q08.


K8L, even though we have no benchmarks on it yet, is going to pre-frag all Intel's upcoming architectures :lol:  What does Sharikou smoke every day?!?!
Sometimes I get the feeling that not even he believes the crap spewing forth from his mouth. Its simply.. wow. But to answer the question, its a new flava of herb. Whitish Purple Black tinted Red Green Goblin Puff Dragon Haze Rhino. It'll get you hyphy in no time. 8) :mrgreen:


Edit: I'm not even sure what rule this violates, but someones going to be offended.
February 3, 2007 12:31:11 AM

Quote:

SO now you have some other non-existent statements to find.


First, you are refering to my claim that you refered to C2D as a paper launch. I told you it would take time to sift through your 4000 some odd posts, and it has. I am far from finished, and I have not abandoned the search, nor forgotton about it. Understand that while I do have numerous threads in which you state availaiblity of C2D ranging from sept 06 to sometime in 07, I have not posted them as I claim you said "paper launch"...I did not say you implied paper launch and without the actual words "paper launch", then I am wrong. In all fairness to you I think it behooves me to prove this one way or the other..either validating my claim or giving you the appology which you may deserve.

Quote:
I remember the first thing I said when I saw COre benches: Wow, they have really improved the pre-fetch mechanism. I actually thought the combination of "Smart-Cache" etc was an implementation of RHT.


Second, please note I was NOT refering to the 3 months prior to Jul 27. I was refering to the 3 months AFTER the initial press releases. PRIOR to the C2D ES's release. During which time no one had any formal info/concrete proof and the Intel fanboys were making crap up as they went along.

Which is exactly the same situation we are in now. No one has concrete proof of anything. No Barcelona ESs havent even been released for testing. No one but the people who are working on the chip know anything factual/concrete about the chip. PERIOD


You're right. I should say, all signs point to Barcelona being a BEAST, but give me a break.

What kind of testing are you looking for? If AMD doesn't test it properly or misrepresents the speed of the chip, it's their dime.

I have never doubted anything about Core 2. And to Jack, I have never said Core 2 sux. I don't care if what they say are lies, exaggeration or market-speak.

I would be upset about it though.

The specs speak for themselves, so......
February 3, 2007 1:27:55 AM

Unfortunately you can't tell if the Stink is from Barcelona over the inherent stink of Oracle. Do you ever use Oracle what a POS.
February 3, 2007 2:47:54 AM

OK, let's now get into a bit of Oracle bashing...

In your opinion, what database scales better?

BTW the original author quoted by the original OP was mostly an Oracle fanboi, but did point out the fact that Oracle's licensing model is per socket... NOT per core. So if barcelona didn't scale over 100% perf. increase, per oracle's present licensing model it wasn't cost effective. End of story.
February 3, 2007 4:21:28 AM

Quote:



You're right. I should say, all signs point to Barcelona being a BEAST, but give me a break.

What kind of testing are you looking for? If AMD doesn't test it properly or misrepresents the speed of the chip, it's their dime.


ahHAAaaa...there is the point. We dont actually know what its going to do. Certainly it should perform better, but to what level? We can guess, but no one knows for sure until its out.

Think about this. Intels head shed are no bunch of angels. They hyped crapburst so much and for so long that a lot of people had become indifferent (to some level) to their BS. So had the hyping of C2D last year turned out to be nothing more than BS, it probably wouldnt have suprised or disapointed too many people.

During the same timeframe Inel was trying to convince everyone Crapburst was the "it" CPU, AMD built a reputation as a customer oriented company who delieverd what they said they would. Look at whats happend this year. People are dissapointed with AMD over 65nm and DDR2. Why? For the most part, they achieved what AMD had planned for them. Why did people expect more? One possibility, which I believe does have some bearing is hype. Only AMD didnt hype the stuff, the fanboys did. Somehow, somewhere, for whatever reasons, people came to expect more than AMD was going to deliver, and those people were disappointed when they didnt get what they were expecting.

If people spend the next 2~4 months running around hyping Barcelona, above what may achieve, it has the potential to cause the same if not worse disapointment. If everyone gets a 40% improvement set in their heads, and AMD only delivers 20%, people are likely to blame AMD and say they failed. And the ridiculous thing is, theres absolutely nothing wrong with a 20% improvment. I have seen no offical staements from AMD yet. Ive only seen what others have seen, Some unverified specs, some that Uarch analysis you talked about in another thread, "...some guy who works for AMD said some guy at Dell told him....bla bla bla" and a whole lot of fan boys making a whole lot of claims. Did you know the lost soul Sharikou is claiming a 400% increase?Too many people making to many guesses with far to few facts to back them up.....for now.

AMD doesnt need 'help' like that right now. It looks like they are going to continue lowering their prices. Yes, that will cut into thier 'wallet', but they can deal with that. The benefit of regaining the value crown and continuing to expand market share or retaining it or, worst case slowing its errosion, is much better for them long term then a few more bucks right now. Disapointing people could threaten any progress they make doing this.






Quote:

I have never doubted anything about Core 2. And to Jack, I have never said Core 2 sux. I don't care if what they say are lies, exaggeration or market-speak.

I would be upset about it though.

The specs speak for themselves, so......


I didnt say you did. I said you called BS on the unsubstansiated, overestimated claims the fanboys were making before Intel had said anything other than "C2D is comming". And rightly so. Even if C2D had come out with a 40% improvement, at that point in time there was nothing to indiacte they would. It wasnt for several months after the initial announcements that actual specs and benchmarks started showing up. Prior to that time, everything was just BS and guesses. But again, it was Intel, so who cared.
February 3, 2007 2:05:38 PM

:trophy: :trophy: :trophy:

Great post!
February 3, 2007 2:20:10 PM

Quote:



You're right. I should say, all signs point to Barcelona being a BEAST, but give me a break.

What kind of testing are you looking for? If AMD doesn't test it properly or misrepresents the speed of the chip, it's their dime.


ahHAAaaa...there is the point. We dont actually know what its going to do. Certainly it should perform better, but to what level? We can guess, but no one knows for sure until its out.

Think about this. Intels head shed are no bunch of angels. They hyped crapburst so much and for so long that a lot of people had become indifferent (to some level) to their BS. So had the hyping of C2D last year turned out to be nothing more than BS, it probably wouldnt have suprised or disapointed too many people.

During the same timeframe Inel was trying to convince everyone Crapburst was the "it" CPU, AMD built a reputation as a customer oriented company who delieverd what they said they would. Look at whats happend this year. People are dissapointed with AMD over 65nm and DDR2. Why? For the most part, they achieved what AMD had planned for them. Why did people expect more? One possibility, which I believe does have some bearing is hype. Only AMD didnt hype the stuff, the fanboys did. Somehow, somewhere, for whatever reasons, people came to expect more than AMD was going to deliver, and those people were disappointed when they didnt get what they were expecting.

If people spend the next 2~4 months running around hyping Barcelona, above what may achieve, it has the potential to cause the same if not worse disapointment. If everyone gets a 40% improvement set in their heads, and AMD only delivers 20%, people are likely to blame AMD and say they failed. And the ridiculous thing is, theres absolutely nothing wrong with a 20% improvment. I have seen no offical staements from AMD yet. Ive only seen what others have seen, Some unverified specs, some that Uarch analysis you talked about in another thread, "...some guy who works for AMD said some guy at Dell told him....bla bla bla" and a whole lot of fan boys making a whole lot of claims. Did you know the lost soul Sharikou is claiming a 400% increase?Too many people making to many guesses with far to few facts to back them up.....for now.

AMD doesnt need 'help' like that right now. It looks like they are going to continue lowering their prices. Yes, that will cut into thier 'wallet', but they can deal with that. The benefit of regaining the value crown and continuing to expand market share or retaining it or, worst case slowing its errosion, is much better for them long term then a few more bucks right now. Disapointing people could threaten any progress they make doing this.






Quote:

I have never doubted anything about Core 2. And to Jack, I have never said Core 2 sux. I don't care if what they say are lies, exaggeration or market-speak.

I would be upset about it though.

The specs speak for themselves, so......


I didnt say you did. I said you called BS on the unsubstansiated, overestimated claims the fanboys were making before Intel had said anything other than "C2D is comming". And rightly so. Even if C2D had come out with a 40% improvement, at that point in time there was nothing to indiacte they would. It wasnt for several months after the initial announcements that actual specs and benchmarks started showing up. Prior to that time, everything was just BS and guesses. But again, it was Intel, so who cared.


WTF are you talking about? I have never said anyone was lying about or hyping their architecture. Give it up.

How can you compare NetBurst to Barcelona? Barcelona is a redone K8. Unless they screw up everything it can't help but be as fast as the improvements allow, which they are quoting as 1.8x per dual core (fp) and I would say at least 1.4x (int).

Stop confusing me with other people. Oh I know what it is. You just can't stop. Let these companies do what they do and leave your personal opinions out of it.
February 3, 2007 2:56:12 PM

Quote:


I agree.... bollocks...

BTW, what is the origin of that word?


It's from the medieval period apparently, around 13th century, and at that time it meant 'priest', as well as 'testacles' and 'nonsense' as it does today.... most famously used on the Sex Pistols' album, 'Never Mind The Bollocks', of course.

He is a very inflammatory poster, Baron, isn't he? I don't like to see people bashed, but when you start your post calling people idiots for having certain opinions, what can you expect? Anyway, we've discussed this before so I'll leave it...... :roll:
February 3, 2007 4:07:54 PM

best post ever, bravo!!! *applauds* :D 
February 3, 2007 4:34:57 PM

Quote:

WTF are you talking about? I have never said anyone was lying about or hyping their architecture. Give it up.

How can you compare NetBurst to Barcelona? Barcelona is a redone K8. Unless they screw up everything it can't help but be as fast as the improvements allow, which they are quoting as 1.8x per dual core (fp) and I would say at least 1.4x (int).

Stop confusing me with other people. Oh I know what it is. You just can't stop. Let these companies do what they do and leave your personal opinions out of it.


Baron, Turpit's post was right on the money with this one.

Second your 1.8 and 1.4 is WRT K8, AMD seems to like that 40% and 80% number, high and almost but not quite unreasonable, and just enough to get your hopes up.... remember 40% improvement in 65 nm that got all excited.... show me where they got 40%???? Show me the data :) 


First, it's AMD's thing not mine. Even Xbit believes the "hype." Second, I'm not sure which 40% you mean though. If you mean switching speed from DSL then I would say we have to wait for Kuma for a dual core to dual core comparison with Brisbane.

I didn't agree with his analysis. You can't compare AMD to Intel or Netburst to Barcelona. Just like you said, it is important to execute well and 65nm has been in retail for a while now. That automatically means ~3.4x (2x for 300mm, 1.4x for 65nm) the amount of chips from the same wafer starts. And in this case this is added inventory. This also means that all of the pics floating around combined with the infamous 100% Task Manager demo, means they are ready for volume.

I expect SPEC benches by the middle to end of the month. Let's see if it happens.
February 3, 2007 4:49:02 PM

Quote:
During the same timeframe Inel was trying to convince everyone Crapburst was the "it" CPU, AMD built a reputation as a customer oriented company who delieverd what they said they would. Look at whats happend this year. People are dissapointed with AMD over 65nm and DDR2. Why? For the most part, they achieved what AMD had planned for them. Why did people expect more? One possibility, which I believe does have some bearing is hype. Only AMD didnt hype the stuff, the fanboys did. Somehow, somewhere, for whatever reasons, people came to expect more than AMD was going to deliver, and those people were disappointed when they didnt get what they were expecting.


Great post..... AMD's first ingredient for success was a massively well designed server chip, their second ingredient was filtering that down to the desktop. The third was making the commitment and coming through. Ruiz, brilliantly, transformed that company into a 'Customer-centric' enterprise and with that attitude he brought he was able to form partnerships and, more importantly, trust with the big players in the industry.

AMD's long history is riddled with small short-falls to commitments, it wasn't until after they were able to shake this reputation that thing really started to fly for them.... this is why execution on 300 mm, 65 nm, and Barcelona is so critical for them --- if they do not succeed on these three things then they risk regaining that pre-Ruiz image.

Frankly, I hope they succeed as a world with out AMD would not be good for the industry.... there would be no counterbalance to drive innovation and newer faster gadgets (a hobby I really enjoy). Conversely, we need Intel releasing things like C2D to drive AMD to do the same.....

Jack
going back to AMD's Athlon in response to INTEL's katmai P3


in the last 8 years... when has AMD not responded to INTEL?

i remember hearing how AMD got lucky with the classic athlon and had no response to COPPERMINE

Barcelona will beat CONROE and probally lose to Penryn and the cycle continues
February 3, 2007 5:22:11 PM

Quote:



WTF are you talking about? I have never said anyone was lying about or hyping their architecture. Give it up.

How can you compare NetBurst to Barcelona? Barcelona is a redone K8. Unless they screw up everything it can't help but be as fast as the improvements allow, which they are quoting as 1.8x per dual core (fp) and I would say at least 1.4x (int).

Stop confusing me with other people. Oh I know what it is. You just can't stop. Let these companies do what they do and leave your personal opinions out of it.



:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

I am comparing netburst to K8...didnt you read? Netburst was crap. K8 wasnt. Comparison complete. K8L is a redone K8. How many people are going to expect more than k*l is going to deliver, because they were bombarded with so many opinions thats when the facts do start showing up they wont see them past the mound of fanboy generated BS?

It is mind boggling that you say this:

Quote:

Let these companies do what they do and leave your personal opinions out of it


to me after I said

Quote:

For the love of peace and harmony, lets all just STFU and wait for the news rather than making guesses and fallacious or misguided statements. Lets avoid the same BS that went on last year with C2D, and just wait to see what reality brings, be it good or bad.



I guess you just didnt bother to read. Thats your perogative.

I guess the diference between you and I is that I think everyone should keep their opinions to themselves, while you think everyone should keep there opinions to themselves but you. Thats all you have right now, opinions, because there are no facts yet. Regardless, this is going the same way the C2D pre release went last year, and I guess theres just no stoping it. Que sera sera.
!