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Will 8800 support future direct x versions? (10.x)

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February 3, 2007 8:44:16 AM

Hello

I am planning on building a new computer with a 8800, and have heard that the current direct x 10 cards from nvidia will not support future direct x 10 versions, like 10.1

This card is a direct x 10 card, in the future can it be that it will not support direct x 10.x? and in how much time from now, if one can know?

Is this true that older direct x 9.b cards did not support direct x 9.c? Someone told me so... if so what were the models? and if this true, then can it be the same with dx10?

Thanks for the answer
February 3, 2007 10:19:44 AM

I don't know about the 8800, but the ATi R600 will support Dx10.1 and it's coming out very very soon! (The ATi card, not the Dx10.1 :p )
February 3, 2007 11:08:47 AM

By 10.1 what do you mean?

Do you mean it supports USA (Unified Shader Architecture)? or something more? because the 8800 also supports that.
Related resources
February 3, 2007 11:24:15 AM

Dx 10.1 supports the following

*Small improvements for important problems
*Limited to small hardware changes
*More VS→GS inter-stage registers, VS input
*Cube map arrays
*Multi-sample control (patterns, alpha to cvg)
*Better multi-sample color & depth access
*Per-render target blending modes
*API/runtime enhancements for multi-core
*Precision improvements

I also heard it makes use of multicore and also features less calls to the CPU for reflections and refractions, making it less CPU dependent.

from the 'limited to small hardware changes' statement we conclude that G80 cant run DX10.1.
February 3, 2007 3:06:39 PM

Well think this example: Remember when the good old ATI 9700 PRO was released? It was the first DX9 card! Well it supported up to DX 9.0b by hardware. The third revision of DX9 is the current DX9.0c. So 9700 couldn't support that but guess what? The first cards that had hardware support for DX9.0c was the nVidia 6 series but that was a good two years after 9700!
Based on that, no i don't think that r600 will support something more then 8800. In fact i don't believe that DX10.x will come out any soon. Imo, this MIGHT happen in q3~4 2008. If anyone knows something more specific ok but i base what i say in past experiences and as we know history tends to repeat itself! :wink:
February 3, 2007 3:23:48 PM

Quote:
Based on that, no i don't think that r600 will support something more then 8800.

ATi doesn't care about what you think or don't think. They said that the hardware of their R600 will have support for Dx10.1 so that means that their hardware will have that support even if you think it won't.
February 3, 2007 10:59:12 PM

What i say is based in real facts. As i said i might be wrong and accept correction. Your attitude isn't very polite though. :roll:
I can't judge that but you are new around so make sure to keep a good name. Btw do you have any official ati announcement that supports your claims of DX10.1 support? If you do, you can post a link so all of us can get informed.
I hope you can keep this in a polite level and respect our community.
February 3, 2007 11:38:49 PM

Quote:
Based on that, no i don't think that r600 will support something more then 8800.

ATi doesn't care about what you think or don't think. They said that the hardware of their R600 will have support for Dx10.1 so that means that their hardware will have that support even if you think it won't.
heh, that's funny, I'd like you to show me what this dx10.1 is, I think everyone here would like to know that ati has something up their sleeve that isn't even heard of...

And in case you didn't know, the 8800gtx has more pipelines than the r600 does, so in case you thought that ati is going to win by introducing unheard of things such as 300pipelines, their not, they will pull off a win due to the fact the xbox360 runs off an ati dx10 card and they already have some experience with dx10 and have had it and are perfecting what they have right now. They will have the superior core (I hope, amd really needs the money) and that is how they will bring in their dough, and they do care about what the public think. If they didn't, they would have simply released some crap with their name on it ***cough***netburst*** and expect people to buy it

As I read all this I couldn't help but hope he does pull some link out of his a**... would make me feel even better about waiting for R600
February 3, 2007 11:51:48 PM

Quote:
Based on that, no i don't think that r600 will support something more then 8800.

ATi doesn't care about what you think or don't think. They said that the hardware of their R600 will have support for Dx10.1 so that means that their hardware will have that support even if you think it won't.
heh, that's funny, I'd like you to show me what this dx10.1 is, I think everyone here would like to know that ati has something up their sleeve that isn't even heard of...

And in case you didn't know, the 8800gtx has more pipelines than the r600 does, so in case you thought that ati is going to win by introducing unheard of things such as 300pipelines, their not, they will pull off a win due to the fact the xbox360 runs off an ati dx10 card and they already have some experience with dx10 and have had it and are perfecting what they have right now. They will have the superior core (I hope, amd really needs the money) and that is how they will bring in their dough, and they do care about what the public think. If they didn't, they would have simply released some crap with their name on it ***cough***netburst*** and expect people to buy it

you also forgot the fact that the R600 as suposedly 64 4 way shaders. Ie complex shaders for 4 operations, while the 8800 has only simple shaders.
February 4, 2007 12:41:29 AM

You should wait until you have total comprehension of the post you are quoting before you shoot your mouth off like a jackass.
February 4, 2007 12:55:00 AM

LOL... I responded with a link and some info... a smar @ss remark and a tubgirl image... and it got censured so... now you know that there was info that I'm not going to post again (you can look it up yourself) and that moderator's hands are very light fingered.
February 4, 2007 12:58:26 AM

You are sick.

Do you even know what ''simple'' pipelines are?!

Taco didn't say that the DX10.1 support comes from the pipelines number, he said that the pipelines are a speed factor! Number of pixel shaders no matter the type can't win alone. 1800Xt and X850 xt have the same pixel shader number. Maybe they perform the same? Do you know at what clock the ATI's shaders will operate?
Also do you know the number, if any, of it's geometry shaders?
How about it's memory interface?
You know only to embarrass yourself and insult this community.
Do you know that around here there are people under 18?
You should be banned for your behavior.
I liked the link you posted. It was very accessible, well informed and above all from a trusted source.
GET LOST



Btw you didn't have to link the picture of your last birthday to convince us!
February 4, 2007 1:03:57 AM

Quote:
You are sick.

Do you even know what ''simple'' pipelines are?!

Taco didn't say that the DX10.1 support comes from the pipelines number, he said that the pipelines are a speed factor! Number of pixel shaders no matter the type can't win alone. 1800Xt and X850 xt have the same pixel shader number. Maybe they perform the same? Do you know at what clock the ATI's shaders will operate?
Also do you know the number, if any, of it's geometry shaders?
How about it's memory interface?
You know only to embarrass yourself and insult this community.
Do you know that around here there are people under 18?
You should be banned for your behavior.
I liked the link you posted. It was very accessible, well informed and above all from a trusted source.
GET LOST



Btw you didn't have to link the picture of your last birthday to convince us!


Obviously you don't understand what the meaning of "sarcasm" is. I do have info about it but I'm no longer posting links so... there's something called "Google" that will help you find info about R600 and it's draft 10.1 unlocking abilities.

Edit: yes... I can be an @ss sometimes...
February 4, 2007 1:09:51 AM

You are a lier too!
You called taco names and the valuable info you say was just a handwrited text like " the ATI will have support for DX10.1 when Microsoft release it in Q2". It had no link and unknown origin!
I was fast enough to read your original post so i give my congratulations to the moderator for it's fast response and drastic action. I didn't know they are stand by and i am really happy that no one can come around here and do what he likes.
February 4, 2007 1:19:31 AM

No... actually a lier no... when I was editing the post to add the link... it disappeared. Also being gay is nothing bad. Is it? So I wouldn't call that being "calling names" unless you're a fascist and think that being different/gay is a bad thing. And FYI: gay = cheery, bright and pleasant. Is that really a bad thing?

Either way... as I mentioned before... use Google and you'll get the info. Google is your friend.
February 4, 2007 2:02:15 AM

I can't tell who is disagreeing with who anymore... and I still don't see any reputable links indicating where this "r600 supports directx10.1" mojo is coming from
February 4, 2007 11:20:59 AM

"you also forgot the fact that the R600 as suposedly 64 4 way shaders. Ie complex shaders for 4 operations, while the 8800 has only simple shaders."

So the R600 has 64 shaders which can perform 4 operations
And the 8800GTX has 128 shaders which can perform 2 operations

Isnt it the same so far?

Now do not forget their clock speed:
I dont know about the R600 but I am guessing something like 675Mhz
And the 8800GTX 1350Mhz

So you see, the 8800 has better specs
a b Î Nvidia
February 4, 2007 4:28:39 PM

OK, WTF is the point of this thread now?
A very similar thread started at [H] with better results;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030583692

The n00b FAQfest is getting really annoying again. :roll:

The R600 being DX10.1 compliant has been a long standing rumour, ATi doesn't confirm/deny it, which is normal for them, especially since if they knew the delays in prod in Nov, they wouldn't tip their hand knowing it just give nV more info for their refreshes. Some people may remeber the old rumours (partially spawned from EB's article IMO);
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/6703/r600_will_be_directx...

As for DX10.1 itself, get yourselves edjucated before posting;
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_c...
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/b/9/5b97017b-e...

The big difference that they are going to address is not multi-core VPUs, but the change in AA functionality and performance improvements. Check slide 30-31;
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/b/9/5b97017b-e...

And OMFG, they're already talkig about DX10.2, whatever will we do!

It's not that important, like every previous generation, by the time anyone exploits the new version well enough to make a difference, there will be better/cheaper harware out there to do it.

Regardless of whether or not the R600 does truely support all of D3D10.1 features, it's unlikely to matter anytime soon. The G80 definitely currently falls slightly short of all the specs, but I doubt it will matter more than theoretically. What will matter most is current performance in games/apps. Just like the GF6600 'supported' SM3.0, but the X800XT clobbered it in gaming. If the top R600 only performs as well as the GF8800GTS, no one will care about future cube-mapping support unless they are keeping the card for 4 years, or are developers who need the features and not performance.

Quote:
"you also forgot the fact that the R600 as suposedly 64 4 way shaders. Ie complex shaders for 4 operations, while the 8800 has only simple shaders."

So the R600 has 64 shaders which can perform 4 operations
And the 8800GTX has 128 shaders which can perform 2 operations

Isnt it the same so far?


No, the G80 is single operation dual issue, the R600 is said to be Vec4 and dual issue. So that would be 2:1, but the question is whether that will be a big difference if there are simple functions. Also the granularity of the R600 may be further reduced/improved over previous generations to improve branching and GPGPU performance, whereas the GF8800 caught up to the X8/X1K series.
It's a theoretical benefit with likely limited early exposure, just like the X1900 3:1 shader difference in the X1800.

Quote:
Now do not forget their clock speed:
I dont know about the R600 but I am guessing something like 675Mhz
And the 8800GTX 1350Mhz


Your guess is well below the current writings of 800+, and no one knows for sure if all parts are synchronous like previous designs, or asynchronous like the GF8800.

Quote:
So you see, the 8800 has better specs


Whatever. :roll:

Commenting on 'better specs' when you obviously don't know the specs one way or the other is just a ridiculous exercise in fanboism.

If anyone is truely concerned, then wait for the launch of the R600, but I doubt it'll matter much for the time being, likely just another checkbox feature at best until 2008.

Oh, BTW, I can guarantee it's not fully DX10.2 capable, so what now? Wait 'til the R680/700 & G90?
a b Î Nvidia
February 4, 2007 4:37:38 PM

Quote:
hmm, i have heard ATI are limiting how well you can overclock the card are they not.


Yeah that has tended to be the case with cards coming out and taking a while to get good OCs after some updating of the tools. Also seems that alot are needing Vmod to get the extra juice too.

There was some talk however that the top end cards would be left alone as they have been, and only the crippled and mid-range will have slight barriers put up to protect marketing categories, similar to the way that CPUs are done nowadays with the high end being unlocked.
a b Î Nvidia
February 4, 2007 4:53:46 PM

Well I'm talking about same generation, not comparing the P4 to C2D or AM64 v AM2.

They usually leave the high end open, whether that matters compared to future products is another story completely.
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