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Logo Bug burn in

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Anonymous
July 1, 2004 8:36:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Greetings,

I have a two year old 60" Phillips rear projection HDTV, which sees
12 - 16 hours of use daily.

To date I've been very pleased with the performance, after proper
calibration.

While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!

During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.

While the damage isn't significant, and can only be seen against a
uniform background, it is enough to make me rather upset.

Asides from making sure the brightness and contrast levels are
reasonable, is there anything else I can do to help slow down the
damage?

Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)

Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge

More about : logo bug burn

Anonymous
July 1, 2004 8:59:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 16:36:24 GMT, jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com
(James Lerch) wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>I have a two year old 60" Phillips rear projection HDTV, which sees
>12 - 16 hours of use daily.
>
>To date I've been very pleased with the performance, after proper
>calibration.
>
>While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
>the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>
>During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
>an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
>damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.
>
>While the damage isn't significant, and can only be seen against a
>uniform background, it is enough to make me rather upset.
>
>Asides from making sure the brightness and contrast levels are
>reasonable, is there anything else I can do to help slow down the
>damage?
>
>Take Care,
>James Lerch
>http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)
>
>Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance.
>Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
>Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
>Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
>Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
>Calvin Coolidge

write to ever advertiser on that channel telling them you will avoid
all their products advertised on discovery due to the on screen bugs
damaging your TV, if everyone did this those bugs would soon
disappear.

http://www.msen.com/~mwg/obnoxicons.html
Anonymous
July 2, 2004 1:28:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) wrote in message news:<40e43ace.349955921@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>...
> While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
> the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>
> During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
> an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
> damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.

Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.
Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos forever.
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
July 2, 2004 10:33:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Barring talk of writing letters of complaint and starting
litigation(which is time consuming as well as expensive); you can sell
the set and apply the resale value toward a DLP set (Digital Light
Processing).These sets I have been given to understand do not have
"burn-in" issues ascribed to them.They do have a minor noise problem
associated with them (a whispering motor noise that is subliminal) when
the color wheel is spinning applying the color values to the digital
signal chip that is supplying the image.
I personally do not like the sets for other reasons,but if you do not
like to deal with the problem of after-images it seems like A WAY to
go.....
Anonymous
July 2, 2004 11:48:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <8a529bb.0407020828.6d11fea5@posting.google.com>
mikharakiri_nospaum@yahoo.com (Mikito Harakiri) writes:


>Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.

yes, over time, they do.

>Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos forever.

And probably about the only way it's ever going to happen. One of my pet
peeves in the early AM is the crawler the local NBC affiliate puts on the
bottom of their morning news program. Over time that too will cause
provable damage. Damnit, if I want to watch a channel with a crawler on
the bottom of it I'll tune in to MSNBC or CNN, Fox News, etc.

--
Help Support Satellite Radio!
Your local radio broadcasters through their powerful NAB lobbyiests
are currently pushing a bill through Congress that if passed, would block
the Satellite Radio services from carrying local content (Traffic & Weather)
Please call your elected representatives at (202) 225-3121 and urge them to
Oppose HR 4026. We need your help, please.
<http://www.xmradio.com/grassroots/index.jsp&gt;
Anonymous
July 3, 2004 11:40:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Agreed!! Bloody manufacturers will not even consider warrenty on crts that
have burn-in problem, nor will the plasma manufacturers. Until the system is
changed to a point where the broadcasters, both local and off shore, comply
with diminished brillance levels etc in their non-moving display material.
IMHO:Technology certianly will need to address this problem or the
manufactureres will need to stop producing the crt and plasma displays.
"SAC 441" <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26604-40E60CF8-512@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
> Barring talk of writing letters of complaint and starting
> litigation(which is time consuming as well as expensive); you can sell
> the set and apply the resale value toward a DLP set (Digital Light
> Processing).These sets I have been given to understand do not have
> "burn-in" issues ascribed to them.They do have a minor noise problem
> associated with them (a whispering motor noise that is subliminal) when
> the color wheel is spinning applying the color values to the digital
> signal chip that is supplying the image.
> I personally do not like the sets for other reasons,but if you do not
> like to deal with the problem of after-images it seems like A WAY to
> go.....
>
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:07:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
turning.WRONG!!!
If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
Vietnam Vet
"Mikito Harakiri" <mikharakiri_nospaum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8a529bb.0407020828.6d11fea5@posting.google.com...
> jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) wrote in message
> news:<40e43ace.349955921@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>...
>> While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
>> the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>>
>> During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
>> an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
>> damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.
>
> Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.
> Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos
> forever.
June 10, 2005 1:07:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:07:36 -0400, "vietnam vet" <Vietnam
Vet@comcast.net> wrote:

>It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
>I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
>fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
>turning.WRONG!!!
>If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
> Vietnam Vet

I wish the art directors at all the stations and networks would figure
out that people aren't all that thrilled with all the graphics junk
they paste on the screen. I don't mean just logos.

Sporting events and news stations are the worst.
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 2:12:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Would be a nice solution to an aggravation to the consumer, service, and
manufacturers. However how do you go about filing a "Class Action" against
those nice off shore broadcasters many customers watch via their satellite
dish?<
> Many times this type of damage, including the 1-800 numbers to QVC, Etc
> are a direct result of the viewing habits of the user. Rarely is it the
> result of the product unless there is a failure in the spot kill circuit,
> defelction, etc within the sets.< I personally do not like the "Logos"
> being used because of the inability of the customer to control the result,
> other than dropping the contrast and brightness values to a moderately low
> level. Other option is of course the DLP or LCD Projections sets.
"vietnam vet" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p 5adnWY2UqlDejXfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
> I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
> fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
> turning.WRONG!!!
> If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
> Vietnam Vet
> "Mikito Harakiri" <mikharakiri_nospaum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8a529bb.0407020828.6d11fea5@posting.google.com...
>> jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) wrote in message
>> news:<40e43ace.349955921@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>...
>>> While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
>>> the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>>>
>>> During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
>>> an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
>>> damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.
>>
>> Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.
>> Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos
>> forever.
>
>
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 7:17:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:07:36 -0400, "vietnam vet" <Vietnam
Vet@comcast.net> wrote:

>It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
>I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
>fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
>turning.WRONG!!!
>If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
> Vietnam Vet
>"Mikito Harakiri" <mikharakiri_nospaum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:8a529bb.0407020828.6d11fea5@posting.google.com...
>> jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) wrote in message
>> news:<40e43ace.349955921@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>...
>>> While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
>>> the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>>>
>>> During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
>>> an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
>>> damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.
>>
>> Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.
>> Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos
>> forever.
>
As the OP, I now officially have a permanent emblem of BOTH the Sci-Fi
channel and TNT as a feature of my 60" HDTV.. Great.

However, I will admit, my disabled wife watches at least 16 hours of
TV every day, for the last three years, consistently. I guess I
should be happy that the dang Philips HDTV is still working, which it
has done flawlessly, other than the logo burn in..

So, is the logo burn in a fault of the TV manufacturer, or the
broadcast owners, or the user for knowing it could happen, and still
watching channels with logo emblems?

On the plus side, we have both TIVO and Time Warner's HD-DVR, so at
least we don't pay to watch the broadcast advertising.


Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)

Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 9:39:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Yupper!!Cheers
<happy> wrote in message news:lt1ia1h98q9nis171ffhedmain9jc57eo6@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:07:36 -0400, "vietnam vet" <Vietnam
> Vet@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
>>I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
>>fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
>>turning.WRONG!!!
>>If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
>> Vietnam Vet
>
> I wish the art directors at all the stations and networks would figure
> out that people aren't all that thrilled with all the graphics junk
> they paste on the screen. I don't mean just logos.
>
> Sporting events and news stations are the worst.
>
>
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:55:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <lt1ia1h98q9nis171ffhedmain9jc57eo6@4ax.com>, happy wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:07:36 -0400, "vietnam vet" <Vietnam
> Vet@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
> >I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
> >fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
> >turning.WRONG!!!
> >If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
> > Vietnam Vet
>
> I wish the art directors at all the stations and networks would figure
> out that people aren't all that thrilled with all the graphics junk
> they paste on the screen. I don't mean just logos.
>
> Sporting events and news stations are the worst.
>
>


Do you suppose that this (burn in) isn't happening to their monitors in
the studios??
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:52:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Heinrich Galland wrote:

> ...
>
>Do you suppose that this (burn in) isn't happening to their monitors in
>the studios??
>
>
1) Do you suppose they care if they have to occasionally replace a few
grand in
equipment?

2) How would they know unless they (gasp!) watch something from another
channel?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a perpetual war, isn't it? We'd love to have pure videos we could
record and
show each other without a hint about where they came from. On the other
hand,
we get what we get free but for the small charge for optional channels.
We'd (I'd,
that is) like to actually see the credits at the end of movies without
having them
squished to unreadability beside a blaring promo or news summary -- as I
actually get to
on, e.g., Bravo. On the other hand, any director who's ever been to a movie
theatre knows that almost all their audience would instantly depart for
the washroom
or, worse, another channel when the credits began. We'd like to just
see the news.
On the other hand, if a network in India provides an item to BBC, who
provides it
to CNN, everybody involved wants credit and some future name recognition.
We'd love to see gripping extended coverage of live news of a solemn nature
without the endless crawl across the bottom of the screen, which sometimes
cuts off subtitles etc. -- except for those of us who want always to
have the other
news available while what other people think of as gripping drags on and on.

It's only going to really change if the channels see an actual
significant drop in
their audiences. Meanwhile, we need to go for equipment which minimizes
burn-in.
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 1:16:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Obviously you need to watch some alternate channels besides Fox News
once in a while!

Bill

"vietnam vet" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p 5adnWY2UqlDejXfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought
that
fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
turning.WRONG!!!
If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
Vietnam Vet
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 3:37:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I understand the channels want to get their name out or whatever but maybe
instead of shooting for complete logo elimination how bout some sort of
impossed limit. Say they can show it for a minute after commercial
breaks/start of shows but must then turn it off to protect consumer
investments in HDTV's? That way they still get their logo out but they dont
get to burn it into our systems hehe.

"Anthony Buckland" <buckland@direct.ca> wrote in message
news:SqGdnQl4R86lKjTfRVn-vQ@look.ca...
> Heinrich Galland wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>>Do you suppose that this (burn in) isn't happening to their monitors in
>>the studios??
>>
> 1) Do you suppose they care if they have to occasionally replace a few
> grand in
> equipment?
>
> 2) How would they know unless they (gasp!) watch something from another
> channel?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's a perpetual war, isn't it? We'd love to have pure videos we could
> record and
> show each other without a hint about where they came from. On the other
> hand,
> we get what we get free but for the small charge for optional channels.
> We'd (I'd,
> that is) like to actually see the credits at the end of movies without
> having them
> squished to unreadability beside a blaring promo or news summary -- as I
> actually get to
> on, e.g., Bravo. On the other hand, any director who's ever been to a
> movie
> theatre knows that almost all their audience would instantly depart for
> the washroom
> or, worse, another channel when the credits began. We'd like to just see
> the news.
> On the other hand, if a network in India provides an item to BBC, who
> provides it
> to CNN, everybody involved wants credit and some future name
> recognition.
> We'd love to see gripping extended coverage of live news of a solemn
> nature
> without the endless crawl across the bottom of the screen, which sometimes
> cuts off subtitles etc. -- except for those of us who want always to have
> the other
> news available while what other people think of as gripping drags on and
> on.
>
> It's only going to really change if the channels see an actual significant
> drop in
> their audiences. Meanwhile, we need to go for equipment which minimizes
> burn-in.
>
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 6:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I'm surprised no one in this thread has mentioned the black and white
striping that ESPNHD puts out for its 4:3 programs. It reminds me of the
pattern that zebras evolved over millions of years for the purpose of giving
lions headaches. My first HD set is only 3 months old so I don't know if
this pattern causes burn in, but it is a far more unpleasant sight than any
logos I've ever seen.
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 10:02:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Heinrich Galland <heinrichg@hotmail.com> wrote (in part):

>Do you suppose that this (burn in) isn't happening to their monitors in
>the studios??

I've spent most of my working life at one television facility or
another, and it's been years since I've seen burn-in on a color
monitor. Granted, the one I'm at now doesn't use logos. Most master
control or production control rooms have one or two good quality color
CRT monitors (there's a school of thought that says you only want one
so that nobody will complain that two don't look alike). There are a
raft of black & whites, typically 3 or 4 in a rack width. They're not
there to check the quality of the picture; that's what the color
monitor is for. They just show what's on each line. Many of them sit
on color bars nearly all the time. And they burn in. And nobody
cares.

Oh, and do you think they're replacing all their analog monitors with
digital-input ones as they convert to digital? Nope. Cheaper to buy
separate boxes with maybe 10 D/A converters to drive them.

Del Mibbler
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:10:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

jerryboyle@bellsouth.net wrote:

>I'm surprised no one in this thread has mentioned the black and white
>striping that ESPNHD puts out for its 4:3 programs. It reminds me of the
>pattern that zebras evolved over millions of years for the purpose of giving
>lions headaches. My first HD set is only 3 months old so I don't know if
>this pattern causes burn in, but it is a far more unpleasant sight than any
>logos I've ever seen.
>
>
>
>
Maybe this is available on sets I don't know enough about; more than
likely, given my level of technichal expertise -- but I'd like to see
equipment that offers the option of greying/blacking/whiting out
user-programmable areas like both side bars, the top and bottom
bars, or the bottom area alone (to cover up the news crawl, or to
sacrifice a slice of picture so as not to see a corner logo). And when
I say user-programmable, I mean that I could extend or contract
each such area up to or as far into the picture as I in my wisdom
chose.
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:17:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bratboy wrote:

>I understand the channels want to get their name out or whatever but maybe
>instead of shooting for complete logo elimination how bout some sort of
>impossed limit. Say they can show it for a minute after commercial
>breaks/start of shows but must then turn it off to protect consumer
>investments in HDTV's? That way they still get their logo out but they dont
>get to burn it into our systems hehe.
>
>
...

My recollection is that they used to display logos only briefly at the
beginning of a program segment, but then expanded the period more
and more. Not so much as to remind us every second of whose
broadcasting we were watching, but to make sure our tapes, every
centimetre of them, were irremovably marked as being of their copyright
material (this is dramatic material I'm talking about, mostly).
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 1:15:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:39:40 -0400, Art wrote:

> Yupper!!Cheers
> <happy> wrote in message
> news:lt1ia1h98q9nis171ffhedmain9jc57eo6@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:07:36 -0400, "vietnam vet" <Vietnam
>> Vet@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
>>>I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought
>>>that fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the
>>>logo is turning.WRONG!!!
>>>If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
>>> Vietnam Vet


Turn the brightness down on your set!

I work for a company that has several types, makes and models of HDTVs
that are tuned to the same channel (whom utilizes logos) which have been
on 24/7 and in some cases for up to 3 years and there is not one of them
with a burned in logo.
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 7:40:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

what better a way to advertise your station logo?
no matter what channel you flip to, you will always be reminded
of...........fox
if you sell the set years down the road, the next lucky owner will get a
24/7 fox promo.


"vietnam vet" <Vietnam Vet@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p 5adnWY2UqlDejXfRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> It would be nice if somebody would put a class action lawsuit on logos.
> I have a burn in on my screen.I watch Fox news all the time.I thought that
> fox news logo turns that there will not be a burn in because the logo is
> turning.WRONG!!!
> If I had the money I would file a a class action lawsuit myself.
> Vietnam Vet
> "Mikito Harakiri" <mikharakiri_nospaum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8a529bb.0407020828.6d11fea5@posting.google.com...
>> jlerch@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) wrote in message
>> news:<40e43ace.349955921@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>...
>>> While watching a Discovery HD show on the Blue Angles, I noticed for
>>> the first time that those damn "logo bugs" ARE causing burn in!
>>>
>>> During normal viewing I can't see the damage, but during clips showing
>>> an airplane against a clear blue sky, I could clearly see burn in
>>> damage starting to show in the bottom right corner of the screen.
>>
>> Do the logos cause provable damage to user equipment? No doubt.
>> Class Action Lawsuit is an effective way to get rid of channel logos
>> forever.
>
>
June 12, 2005 7:08:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:17:23 -0700, Anthony Buckland
<buckland@direct.ca> wrote:

> Not so much as to remind us every second of whose
>broadcasting we were watching, but to make sure our tapes, every
>centimetre of them, were irremovably marked as being of their copyright
>material (this is dramatic material I'm talking about, mostly).

Like anyone cares.

It's amazing when they start to believe their own bullshit.
!