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February 7, 2007 5:16:24 PM

I know the title says 'move this thread from here', but my problem is actually CPU related and needs hardware guys;
I do a lot of 3D modeling, rendering and less photo editing, but most of the software I use are open source and also available for Linux. I continuously hear that Linux consumes much less resources, and experience the hunger of XP. I have also found out that 64bit systems improve my performance, so, If I do it, I should transition to a 64bit Linux,...now:
Is moving to a 64bit SUSE Linux going to somehow improve the performance of my current system?!

More about : linux windows

February 7, 2007 5:19:25 PM

Quote:
I know the title says 'move this thread from here', but my problem is actually CPU related and needs hardware guys;
I do a lot of 3D modeling, rendering and less photo editing, but most of the software I use are open source and also available for Linux. I continuously hear that Linux consumes much less resources, and experience the hunger of XP. I have also found out that 64bit systems improve my performance, so, If I do it, I should transition to a 64bit Linux,...now:
Is moving to a 64bit SUSE Linux going to somehow improve the performance of my current system?!


Second me on this thread. I have a very similar question.
February 7, 2007 5:26:24 PM

My quick answer is a question.... What are you more familiar with, Windows or Linux?

Because in the end what good does an OS do if you have to waste a lot of time "getting to know" the OS. Kinda negates your performance gain doesnt it?
Related resources
February 7, 2007 5:26:51 PM

Quote:
I know the title says 'move this thread from here', but my problem is actually CPU related and needs hardware guys;
I do a lot of 3D modeling, rendering and less photo editing, but most of the software I use are open source and also available for Linux. I continuously hear that Linux consumes much less resources, and experience the hunger of XP. I have also found out that 64bit systems improve my performance, so, If I do it, I should transition to a 64bit Linux,...now:
Is moving to a 64bit SUSE Linux going to somehow improve the performance of my current system?!


If you need OpenGL then 64-bit Vista is not an option currently. I know that's not what you asked, but it is relevant to the discussion. :) 
February 7, 2007 5:30:09 PM

Quote:
My quick answer is a question.... What are you more familiar with, Windows or Linux?

Because in the end what good does an OS do if you have to waste a lot of time "getting to know" the OS. Kinda negates your performance gain doesnt it?


For me, I have no option but stick with XP on at least a dualboot system. Job requirement. Won't go with Vista. I'm sure m25 has his own preferences.
February 7, 2007 5:38:01 PM

BTW, this is for a 2xQuad 8GB RAM system. So I know I'd need to use XP 64 which I already have but haven't installed. What I want is CRISP performance on big hogs like Photoshop. So, let's assume that at some point in the future I'll be able to run the CS suite on some Linux flavour, what kind of performance advantage would that gimme?

P.S. I've done enough damage for one day. Time to get back to making believe I'm doing some work. Back tomorrow!
February 7, 2007 5:53:31 PM

Quote:
My quick answer is a question.... What are you more familiar with, Windows or Linux?

Because in the end what good does an OS do if you have to waste a lot of time "getting to know" the OS. Kinda negates your performance gain doesnt it?

No problem about familiarity, I have tried Linux in the past. I just need performance; I'm not a gamer, I'm not afraid of some command line app and not so keen to the bells and whistles of XP and recently Vista, just want to know the resource usage of a Linux system because Windows really sucks.
February 7, 2007 6:02:48 PM

Quote:
BTW, this is for a 2xQuad 8GB RAM system. So I know I'd need to use XP 64 which I already have but haven't installed. What I want is CRISP performance on big hogs like Photoshop. So, let's assume that at some point in the future I'll be able to run the CS suite on some Linux flavour, what kind of performance advantage would that gimme?

P.S. I've done enough damage for one day. Time to get back to making believe I'm doing some work. Back tomorrow!


http://www.knithx.net/2006/07/29/how-to-run-photoshop-c...

Don't have linux, don't know if it works, but you can try.

Centurion
February 7, 2007 7:28:11 PM

Well here are my thoughts, and Im sure some will disagree...

@capt
Man I hate to say it but since you have to stick with Windows it looks like Vista outperforms XP for CS2 by about +5%. And that number should only grow larger over time and the updates start coming in.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page8.html
Dont kill the messenger! :p 

The only other thing I could think of would be going with Windows2003. I use it myself for work apps like CS2. Way less of a resource hog compared to XP. I just finished an installation on a high end workstation and when the OS finished and was up and running the thing was only using 85Mb of memory. In my opinion 2003 is a downright killer OS. Drawbacks are cost obviously $600-$700 for standard x64.

@m25
I think it goes without question that Linux uses far less resources than Windows. Will it be noticeable is another question. Because of the way Linux ties its GUI into the system it often appears to be much slower than its Windows counterpart when opening up apps and so forth. But overall it feels much quicker once you get to your application and start the repetitive nature.

Personally I really enjoy running SUSE. Most people have been downing it since they signed what warring nations would consider a "non-proliferation act" with microsoft, but their apps like YaST definitely make things easier for those switching from Windows to Linux.
February 7, 2007 7:35:53 PM

I would go with Gentoo or maybe even pure Debian instead of SUSE, there alot more customizable and more streamlined then SUSE.
February 7, 2007 10:59:59 PM

Thanks for the details. What you say is really true; It is kind of downside of Linux, the fact that it does not pre-load the applications into memory; less resources consumed, but slower startups. However, I'd like to know something more in terms of pure performance, something like the Vista vs XP review.
And about Windows 2003; it's really nice and because I live in a country where 99.9% of the software are pirate copies, I'd have no problem to get one for $3 but want a 'clean' platform to work on and also give an example to others.
to apt403: Don't know if Gentoo or Debian have 64bit versions, because I am (like almost everybody here) a performance fanatic and want to squeeze x64 too. Since 64 bit systems are pretty expensive, the x64 open SUSE looks a good alternative.
February 7, 2007 11:04:14 PM

Quote:
apt403: Don't know if Gentoo or Debian have 64bit versions, because I am (like almost everybody here) a performance fanatic and want to squeeze x64 too. Since 64 bit systems are pretty expensive, the x64 open SUSE looks a good alternative.


Gentoo has been ported to pretty much every system out there, it supports processors i havent even hear of before. I dont really know how that matters know that i think about it, but yeah, there is a 64bit version.
February 7, 2007 11:16:19 PM

OK, and how is software support; I have heard SUSE has a very large base. and what about a good VM for it; I don;t like do dual boot but don't even want to be p!ssed for some windows only SW.
February 7, 2007 11:26:35 PM

Gentoo software support is pretty good, although im not sure its going to be as good as SUSE. Do you mean a VM to run Gentoo, or run from Gentoo?
February 7, 2007 11:46:36 PM

FROM (because most often I will only need to run some stupid CAD app or something like that on windows).
February 8, 2007 12:25:42 AM

apt,

Do ya think the Gentoo suggestion is appropriate for a Linux newb?

My last dealings with Gentoo (compile a version of the Linux kernel totally tailored to your machine) put it being much more difficult than other distributions (has this changed?).

SUSE and Debian are likely alot easier to install/use/learn.

If m25 wants stability then Centos is good (knockoff of the enterprise edition from Redhat). Centos is very very stable (although not bleeding edge).

Redhat is likely a no go as well since installs have gotten a little better but are still an issue with some hardware.

Please be advised -- that in Linux getting good graphics support/speed can sometimes be difficult. It is an OpenGL platform and can work very very well but can be a pain to squeeze performance out of it.

Hope this helps...
February 8, 2007 12:33:36 AM

Quote:
apt,

Do ya think the Gentoo suggestion is appropriate for a Linux newb?

My last dealings with Gentoo (compile a version of the Linux kernel totally tailored to your machine) put it being much more difficult than other distributions (has this changed?).

SUSE and Debian are likely alot easier to install/use/learn.


Yeah, i guess your right, but he wants speed, and he said that hes not afraid of the command line. Gentoo is pretty much the fastest, most streamlined distro out there because you build it specificly for your hardware.

It hasnt changed, you can just install Gentoo from a cd like any other distro, but to get every last ounce of performance out of a machine installing from the command line is the way to go.
February 8, 2007 12:39:26 AM

Gubuntu ;) 

G stands for Google!!

Here is the link ;)  goobuntu
February 8, 2007 12:46:13 AM

Ive known about Goobuntu for a while, to bad its not avalible to the public...
February 8, 2007 12:46:29 AM

Ironic.. I'm installing Suse on the infamous P2 right now. ~_~
February 8, 2007 12:48:05 AM

Quote:
Ironic.. I'm installing Suse on the infamous P2 right now. ~_~


You installing SUSE on an Intel 80286?
February 8, 2007 12:48:27 AM

Quote:
Ive known about Goobuntu for a while, to bad its not avalible to the public...

I thought it plain didn't exist....
February 8, 2007 12:53:15 AM

Apt,

At this time even Ubuntu folks are saying it is just a story...
February 8, 2007 1:12:40 AM

Quote:
Yeah, i guess your right, but he wants speed, and he said that hes not afraid of the command line. Gentoo is pretty much the fastest, most streamlined distro out there because you build it specificly for your hardware.

It hasnt changed, you can just install Gentoo from a cd like any other distro, but to get every last ounce of performance out of a machine installing from the command line is the way to go.


The beautiful thing is that most distributions are now compiled for i686 architecture, so it makes Gentoo's point moot. I tried both SuSE and Gentoo on my machine and noticed zero difference in speed of the system. Of course, installation of Gentoo took way longer than I cared for. It seemed I poured hours into the installation, and how long before I break even from any additional speed of the system?
February 8, 2007 5:46:17 AM

@ Centurion

The problem with running CS under WINE is that it apparently slows it down a whole whack. That's what I understand anyway. Can't say I've ever tried WINE.

@ sandmanwm

The Win2003 suggestion is very interesting. I certainly won't go to Vista anytime soon as I have several serious problems with the OS and the way it's designed.

@ ches111

The prob I have with going with Gentoo or some other exotic form of Linux is that my system is mission-critical. When I'm on deadline, I can't get up to pee let alone be fudging around troubleshooting or doing an OS reinstall. I need something rocksolid. Ubuntu has a nice reputation, I'll definitely give it that.

@ apt403

Do we know anyone in Google who can get us a copy of Goob for "testing" purposes?

:D 
February 8, 2007 6:17:20 AM

Quote:

@ apt403

Do we know anyone in Google who can get us a copy of Goob for "testing" purposes?

:D 


There have got to be well over 10,000 registered users on this forum, chances are that there are a couple who also work at google. Now, if we could convince one of them to let us "borrow" a copy Goobunutu or not is another story. Although i am the interwebnets*, so im sure i could just snake my way into there computer and run away with a copy of Goobuntu.

*Seriously, i am the interwebnets, my entire being is stored on a server somewhere that has control over everything internet related, and i am in control of that server.
February 8, 2007 6:31:31 AM

Quote:

@ apt403

Do we know anyone in Google who can get us a copy of Goob for "testing" purposes?

:D 


There have got to be well over 10,000 registered users on this forum, chances are that there are a couple who also work at google. Now, if we could convince one of them to let us "borrow" a copy Goobunutu or not is another story. Although i am the interwebnets*, so im sure i could just snake my way into there computer and run away with a copy of Goobuntu.

*Seriously, i am the interwebnets, my entire being is stored on a server somewhere that has control over everything internet related, and i am in control of that server.

Oh yeah? Well, I'm a holograph and I'm interfaced directly to the main computer core thus have exclusive access to all the best pr0n! :lol: 

Come on guys. Let's see if there's some way of sneaking a copy of Goob. It sounds like a lot of fun!
February 8, 2007 2:15:17 PM

Stick with fedora or kubuntu, and you will not have any problems:
during install click to add kde desktop instead of gnome desktop....
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/
http://www.fedoraforum.org/ - for all your questions

my advise to you is use the kde desktop, and not gnome so try kubuntu instead of ubuntu
http://www.kubuntu.com/

there is nothing to fear, if you can use windows you can use linux.... you will notice the speed difference from windows right away.... Linux is very slim.... If you pick the 64 bit version the ony 32 bit app you might want to run is firefox browser.... there is no flash support for 64 bit firefox browser(long story)....

if you don't want to dload alot of gigs you can buy any linux distribution here for like $10.00
http://linuxcentral.com/_v3/
February 8, 2007 2:47:46 PM

Gman,

I already have multiple installs of Linux flavors, from Fedora Core 6 (uuuggghhh) to Centos, to Redhat enterprise edition.

I have been in the NIX arena for many many many years. Man I am old!! :) 
February 8, 2007 2:51:20 PM

Sorry - that wasn't meant for you.... I was trying to reply to '' M25' the guy who asked the original question on what to do....
February 8, 2007 3:49:50 PM

Thanks a lot for the advice. What about driver support, especially modems, because the modem I have does not work on RedHat 8 and SUSE 9.1 I have tried.
February 8, 2007 4:12:59 PM

Chances are the modem you have is what is called a "winmodem".

If you are having difficulty running these you can google for a fix.

Many wireless adapters are similar and have issue with running under Linux.

Many times it is a matter of using a wrapper (like the NDIS wrapper used to make the wireless cards on notebooks work).

Some winmodems actually work in Linux but only after some trial and effort.

Which modem do you have?

Please see HERE!
February 8, 2007 4:41:32 PM

Let me give you the clearest image you'll get:
1- if you work with OpenGL, you have no option but Linux...It is true that some ports of Open GL exist for windows (besides the original windows support for 1.0) but performance wise, you're better off running openGL on Linux..If you want DX on the other hand....go for Windows (no alternative)

2-If you plan on using Nvidia cards, use linux...especially if you want to program your GPU...u need the latest openGL with free support (you'll need it)
If you want ATI, better stick with Windows

3-Driver installation will almost kill you on Linux...LinModems or WinModems or whatever...basically you'll need special drivers for almost every gadget...the good news is, if you're programming, the API for Linux (Nvidia Wize) is great (ATI cut their Linux division a while ago so their drivers aren't top of the line)

4-I still find your question strange..i never met a guy who wants to program cutting edge graphics and found no better place to ask a question than tomshardware forums... there are far more specialized websites, forums, mailing lists etc.... There are Billions spent yearly on graphics programming, every lab, major conference (hundreds each year) has its proceedings detailing the best tweaks and glitches.

5-Overall, if you're a developper, a serious one, not some bored guy trying to impress his GF with a 3D scenegraph.....do some serious research first (again if you want cutting edge)
February 8, 2007 5:02:31 PM

Quote:
OK, and how is software support; I have heard SUSE has a very large base. and what about a good VM for it; I don;t like do dual boot but don't even want to be p!ssed for some windows only SW.


This is something I've wondered about, since I have a spare computer at the moment. I've been thinking about trying a 64 bit version of linux, whether Susie or some other maker, putting it on a new hard disc so if something messes up, I still have the old disc with XP on it. I haven't tried anything with Linux for years, and back then support was pretty bad, but wonder what its like now.
February 8, 2007 5:03:31 PM

Quote:
Ironic.. I'm installing Suse on the infamous P2 right now. ~_~


You installing SUSE on an Intel 80286?
I hope this reply was a joke... a P2 is a Pentium 2, not a 286. Suse Linux is a 32 bit (or 64!) OS and would be impossible to run on a 286 (16 bit) Man, I hope you were kidding when you said that.
February 8, 2007 5:48:34 PM

Thats why i put the question mark at the end, it should be impossible, but i dunno, maybe the Ninja is some crazy hacker and he rewrote the entite OS for 16bit cpus.
February 8, 2007 5:52:25 PM

SSS DDK,

Was that in reference to me or the OP?

If it is the OP please reply to the OP...
February 8, 2007 5:59:38 PM

Quote:
Thats why i put the question mark at the end, it should be impossible, but i dunno, maybe the Ninja is some crazy hacker and he rewrote the entite OS for 16bit cpus.

I think I said somewhere that my programming skills are not as good as I would like them to be.
a b 5 Linux
February 8, 2007 6:23:59 PM

Moving to 64bit linux will improve performance 25-80% on AMD64 hardware vs. 32bit.

On P4 hardware is will be about 2-5% slower.

On intel Core based CPUs it should run faster in 64bit vs. 32bit not sure by how much.


I would recommend both Fedora Core 6 x86_64 and Ubuntu-6.10-amd64 desktop / x86_64.

Fedora Core 6 comes with Blender, K3D, GIMP and many other similar packages and is very easy to use and install.

Ubuntu has the apt repos, all the debian goodness and is quite easy to use as well.

Both have good hardware support and updated quite frequently.

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/FC-6...

http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/6.10/ubuntu-6...


GL :-D




Quote:
I know the title says 'move this thread from here', but my problem is actually CPU related and needs hardware guys;
I do a lot of 3D modeling, rendering and less photo editing, but most of the software I use are open source and also available for Linux. I continuously hear that Linux consumes much less resources, and experience the hunger of XP. I have also found out that 64bit systems improve my performance, so, If I do it, I should transition to a 64bit Linux,...now:
Is moving to a 64bit SUSE Linux going to somehow improve the performance of my current system?!
February 8, 2007 6:25:55 PM

Quote:
I am not a fan of suse, as it seems to be the most system hogging distro that I have found. I recommend using ubuntu, it's based off of debian but is a little more user-friendly.
Here's the link to download the 64bit iso. You won't regret it.
http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/edgy/ubuntu-6.10-desktop-amd64.iso


Speak of the devil... I just finished downloading and burning my Ubuntu 6.10 ISO from that site... man, that's weird. Although I have an AMD X2, I got the 32 bit version as the benchmarks I saw show no difference between the two versions... in fact, the 32 bit version was slightly faster in gaming performance. If I have enough free time and determination I intend to play WoW (if only once) on Linux just to say I've done it. I'm really getting fed up with Microsoft and I guess Linux is my only alternative (please, no pro-Mac replies to this comment)
February 8, 2007 6:36:17 PM

chess111 is right, it is probably a winmodem(software modem).... You need to either do some manually configurations or do what I did - buy a hardware modem.... they usually connect better at higher speeds anyway....
see here: they are $36.00 instead of $20.00
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewproduct.asp?PID=MODEMS-U...

as for red hat 8.0 - that is very old and out of date.... get rid of it.... The newest version is fedora core 6(they don't use the name red hat anymore except for servers).... you can even get winmodems to work if you want to try....
February 8, 2007 6:39:57 PM

Quote:
Moving to 64bit linux will improve performance 25-80% on AMD64 hardware vs. 32bit.

On P4 hardware is will be about 2-5% slower.

On intel Core based CPUs it should run faster in 64bit vs. 32bit not sure by how much.


I would recommend both Fedora Core 6 x86_64 and Ubuntu-6.10-amd64 desktop / x86_64.

Fedora Core 6 comes with Blender, K3D, GIMP and many other similar packages and is very easy to use and install.

Ubuntu has the apt repos, all the debian goodness and is quite easy to use as well.

Both have good hardware support and updated quite frequently.

http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/6/x86_64/iso/FC-6...

http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/6.10/ubuntu-6...


GL :-D




I know the title says 'move this thread from here', but my problem is actually CPU related and needs hardware guys;
I do a lot of 3D modeling, rendering and less photo editing, but most of the software I use are open source and also available for Linux. I continuously hear that Linux consumes much less resources, and experience the hunger of XP. I have also found out that 64bit systems improve my performance, so, If I do it, I should transition to a 64bit Linux,...now:
Is moving to a 64bit SUSE Linux going to somehow improve the performance of my current system?!


thanx a lot for replying on my request! I hope the OP will find it helpful!
February 8, 2007 6:43:23 PM

ati driver support is pretty good for linux since AMD took over:
http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

they come out with a new version every month now.... Yes there is room for improvement, but at least they are really working on it now at a fast pace.
February 8, 2007 7:15:30 PM

i enjoy installing Ubuntu on my Athlon XP 3200, The install in fast and simple, but ubuntu is not the fastest Linux distro, but in my experience it is one of the easiest to work with.

The fastest Distro i know of is Slackware, Its also a simple install, but if you need anything from kernel 2.6 it gets a little bit more interesting, since slack is all about stability. But i know that you can install it on a 2.6 kernel and the creators of the Kernel have already stated that the 2.6 Kernel is extremely stable at this point. So that might work for you.

As far as a video card goes, def go nvidia, its a simple driver install, the latest beta is really good, and with all the CPU power you can install like AIGLX or Beryl for some of the nicest eye candy ever, put you and your box on like OSX status.

But all in all, by in large with 8 CPUs and 8 gigs of ram, any Linux distro will be fast, it will just take some time to get your Linux box up and how you like it, and with like Gentoo it could take a couple days or even a week with all the tweaking you can go there, or with Ubuntu you could be done in a matter of hours.

But if all your programs come with 64 bit versions then def use the 64 bit version, otherwise your waisting your time, and you wont be using all the extra registers.

Also make sure when you install whatever OS it is, make sure you have SMP/SMT support or a SMP kernel installed, because i don't know if Ubuntu will automatically install an SMP kernel if it detects more than 1 CPU, but if it doesn't its really easy with apt. since there are many resources for Ubuntu since its just a face for Debian.
February 8, 2007 7:29:40 PM

Quote:

4-I still find your question strange..i never met a guy who wants to program cutting edge graphics and found no better place to ask a question than tomshardware forums... there are far more specialized websites, forums, mailing lists etc.... There are Billions spent yearly on graphics programming, every lab, major conference (hundreds each year) has its proceedings detailing the best tweaks and glitches.

I was first looking for a general opinion and there were 2 main reasons for chosing the CPU forum
1-It's the only forum I regularly write on; a lot of familiar people :D 
2-Since in my job (modelling, rendering, graphics etc) I need 101% from my hardware, I thought people with a lot of CPU knowledge were the best option for this opinion.

Quote:
5-Overall, if you're a developper, a serious one, not some bored guy trying to impress his GF with a 3D scenegraph.....do some serious research first (again if you want cutting edge)

Nooo, I have to invent other tricks, because my GF is an architect like me and does not get easily impressed by my 3D stuff :D 
I really want to do a serious search and yesterday googled for Linux reviews, but most of them were just descriptive reviews rather than comparative of performance showcasing.... I'll keep looking[/quote]
February 8, 2007 7:34:19 PM

Hey dude, if you have the time and patience then id try out like a couple different versions and find out what your favorite is, like take a weekend or some week when you don't need that one computer and find the best distro for your needs, there is no one perfect one. Linux can do what you want and probably better than windows can, but it will take more work, But in the end its worth it, no real virus concerns, no firewall issues. And every time you install an update you don't have to reboot the whole computer.

And if you don't update your box, its fine, because they only fix little things and if it works then i wouldn't change anything on something mission critical like that.
a b 5 Linux
February 8, 2007 7:35:23 PM

What CPU do you intend to use? How many CPUs? What kind of motherboard?

This will help us help you :-D




Quote:

4-I still find your question strange..i never met a guy who wants to program cutting edge graphics and found no better place to ask a question than tomshardware forums... there are far more specialized websites, forums, mailing lists etc.... There are Billions spent yearly on graphics programming, every lab, major conference (hundreds each year) has its proceedings detailing the best tweaks and glitches.

I was first looking for a general opinion and there were 2 main reasons for chosing the CPU forum
1-It's the only forum I regularly write on; a lot of familiar people :D 
2-Since in my job (modelling, rendering, graphics etc) I need 101% from my hardware, I thought people with a lot of CPU knowledge were the best option for this opinion.

Quote:
5-Overall, if you're a developper, a serious one, not some bored guy trying to impress his GF with a 3D scenegraph.....do some serious research first (again if you want cutting edge)

Nooo, I have to invent other tricks, because my GF is an architect like me and does not get easily impressed by my 3D stuff :D 
I really want to do a serious search and yesterday googled for Linux reviews, but most of them were just descriptive reviews rather than comparative of performance showcasing.... I'll keep looking[/quote]
!