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Friend says X2 4200+. I say C2D. - Page 2

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February 11, 2007 6:48:50 AM

Quote:
My friend is planning on a cheap build coming up soon. He has planned a system with an ASUS mobo (srry don't know which), X2 4200+, and 1 Gb of OCZ DDR2800. I told him the OCZ wouldn't work well with the mobo, and he said he'd think about another brand. But the real issue is the processor. For the same price, he could get a decent mobo w/a E6300. I told him even without ocing the C2D was better, but he won't agree. He says "2.2 Ghz is better than 1.87" and I can't explain why exactly the C2D is faster but I know it is. How do I convince him to get the E6300?


core duo is faster because it is made from 65nm tech while the 4200+ is still 90nm, and because core duo is made of 65nm technology it can have a bigger cache than the 4200+His friend knows more than you. :roll:
February 11, 2007 7:11:09 AM

Quote:
My friend is planning on a cheap build coming up soon. He has planned a system with an ASUS mobo (srry don't know which), X2 4200+, and 1 Gb of OCZ DDR2800. I told him the OCZ wouldn't work well with the mobo, and he said he'd think about another brand. But the real issue is the processor. For the same price, he could get a decent mobo w/a E6300. I told him even without ocing the C2D was better, but he won't agree. He says "2.2 Ghz is better than 1.87" and I can't explain why exactly the C2D is faster but I know it is. How do I convince him to get the E6300?


Intructions per cycle... the C2D executes more insturctions at every cycle.

To use a retarded example, its like two assembly line workers, A works 2200 hours(Ghz), B works 1870 hours(ghz) a year, A finishes three shirts(instructions) per hour and B four. SO over the same one year time period assembly worker one finishes 6600 shirts(instructions), assembly worker two finishes 7480. Simply looking at the hours (Ghz) worked doesn't give you any information unless you know how many shirts (instructions) are finished.

When do the 2 trains leave NYC and LA at different speeds, one being a local, the other express, etc.? :wink:
February 11, 2007 7:13:11 AM

E6300 >> 4200+
It just eats the X2
Related resources
February 11, 2007 7:41:19 AM

Quote:
core duo is faster because it is made from 65nm tech while the 4200+ is still 90nm


If that were the case, the Brisbanes would outperform comparable Windsors, but apparently they don't actually.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/athlon64-b...

Might be a useful comparison for the c2d vs X2 as well. Wasn't really the point of the review, they just had one in there for reference.

I also suspect the article writer wasn't extremely familiar with overclocking, though it was at least attempted.
February 11, 2007 11:09:20 AM

if he goes for a 3800+ am2, that would make much more sense....the price is significantly lower, and he ll have the opportunity to upgrade at the end of the year with the then cheap k8l.......
February 11, 2007 1:12:04 PM

Quote:
Show him this thread, every person here will say that the E6300 is superior to the 4200+ in every way. The E6300 is faster because of the way its built, it can do more in one clock cycle then the 4200+, so the clock speed doesnt need to be as high.


1700 post btw. :D 


this is very true. not to include the amazing things you can do to the e6300 aka oCing :) 
February 11, 2007 9:42:31 PM

Quote:
E6300 >> 4200+
It just eats the X2
As usual(from a fanboy) that is an exageration. It beats the 4200 in many benches, but not all. Overall, the 6300 slots in between the 4200 and 4600..depending on app.
February 13, 2007 4:38:55 AM

Yes buy the C2D. Win the stat battle. AND lose the gaming performance war.
February 13, 2007 4:50:51 AM

ATIisGhostlyBlue is an egotistical moron who only comes on the forums to spread fanboyism. Just take one look at his name and you will see that he is a person who will favor an ATI card over the nVidia card even as it stands that nVidia is on top of the performance chart. I myself also like ATI, but would never spread filth about the other company with no facts what so ever. Notice his comment in the below forum. His post implies that nVidia card manufacturers use re-used parts. Where is the evidence that proves this. He did not display any knowledge on the topic and didn’t help out the original poster what so ever.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&...

It is posters like him that cause many other posters on these forums to be hesitant to ask questions and get help/advise, which is ultimately what this place is for. In this other forum that he posted in you will see how one sided he is. Even though this topic had gotten off task earlier in the forum you can easily tell how uncalled for his post was.

His quote: “Nvidia cards suck; they will drain your psu and their fan db output makes me laugh. Sounds like a freaking jet flying right above my head. Go back and look at nvidia's futile attempts in competing with ATI in the dx9 realm. Poor drivers, inconsiderate customer relations principles, and the lack of innovation are signature staples of Nvidia operation. The core graphics of nvidia have earned the slogan "loud, late, overclocked and underpowered" from true pc gamers. Quanity does not equal quality, and over-marketing ones product is just a sign of apprehensiveness in respect to customer satisfaction. However, if you are trying to create an fire/explosive device out of computer parts alone, i do reccomend putting an Nvidia based card in your motherboard; i just hope you havent grown to attached to your pc. I still havent seen an Nvidia card than can run Doom3 to my standards. Seriously, Nvidia reminds me of a kid in an arcade standing feverishly over the "Whack a Mole" game - and always losing.”

See for yourself: http://forumz.tomshardware.com/card-recommendationsftop...

That is yet another example of no facts display, but rather just ignorance in the form of fanboyism, which is something that we don’t need any more of around here.

If you notice he has very few post on these forums, and when looking at his history most if not all of his posts are either favoring AMD and bashing Intel or favoring ATI and bashing nVidia. I am not saying that having a few posts on the forums is bad as he may have more important or interesting things to be doing with his time. I am merely remarking upon his continued negative posting behavior that he displays consistently throughout all.

In this post he has shown once again no facts what so ever.

Quote: “Yes buy the C2D. Win the stat battle. AND lose the gaming performance war.”

It is well known that C2D is better in gaming. This is just yet again another time where he displays no facts or evidence to support his claim!

Earlier in the post I made a comment joking around, but it was rather none informative and didn’t really help the original poster (I did this because it seemed obvious that someone would easily answer the question because of the obvious answer of C2D being better). I apologize for this so to not hypocritical, but I just want all to remember that whenever someone views a post that is made by ATIisGhostlyBlue to take it with the smallest grain of salt because he is nothing but trouble and it is the posters like him that are tarnishing this forums great name.

Many in this forum who know me, will tell you that I am no fanboy. I have had both nVidia and ATI GPU’s over the past several years, as well as I have had both Intel and AMD CPU’s. I like them both, I go for what is going to give me the best performance at the time. As always stated competition is good for us all, without both of these great companies (AMD and Intel) we would not be where we are today.

P.S. Though he may claim he has alway recommended C2D in this forum, it is painfully easy to see his subliminal message of how C2D performs poorly in games when compared the the Athlon X2, where are the facts Ghost? Here is my evidence of higher performance from C2D, just scam through them if you wish to be enlightened. Just come back when K8L (K10) is out and then you will have your chance to talk about AMD all you want, that is if it turns out as good as we all hope it will.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1...

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 5:00:07 AM

Quote:


I don't make CPU recommendations when AMD is getting spanked.

I talk about fabricated AMD CPU news.

I may tell a person how good a chip may improve their system if it's AMD, but I don't have time for the C2D/X2 arguments because it makes me cry at night.

What difference does it make which CPU a person gets, you won't get a penny either way? <-- so why push AMD so much?

Maybe it's that lack of sef-confidence I notice here...mainly in myself


Fixed! :D 
February 13, 2007 5:04:37 AM

Some people ignore what they don't want to believe. He can look up benchmarks if he's willing and reasonable. Otherwise leave him to it. If he's keen for speed and OC headroom, Intel is the ticket. If not, AMD will work. He wont have much of an upgrade path with current AMD MB's though, but that's his pill to swallow.
February 13, 2007 5:05:58 AM

Nice T-Bird man, that thing is a classic. lol

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 5:12:39 AM

lol exactly how long have you had your current intel cpu friend? If your response is more than a month, you're what I call a SURVIVOR. I personally prefer my computer to not internally morph into a microwave when turned on. in addition, several "processor power" tests such as 3dmark have consistently used technologies that intel cpu's have had (SSE2) while negating those seclusive to amd chips. Why do we even call this line of proccesors C2D when its really a dressed up and ninja'd IMB Cell. PS3 FTW!
February 13, 2007 5:16:36 AM

Chicks dig it! :D 
February 13, 2007 5:21:04 AM

So ignore them and look at real world app performance. C2D wins hands down Ghost........(humming the song Ghostbusters....)
February 13, 2007 5:29:33 AM

Wow shoot yourself in the foot some more why dont ya! Lets see, well Temp problems for Intels have been long gone since the netburst days. My roommate has an FX-55, which his motherboard overvolts to 1.4v minimum and his temps are way higher than my C2D @ 2.80ghz (my load temps = his idol temps...not good eh?), explain that? You mentioned IBM and the Cell huh? Well why dont you call your friends over at AMD and ask them who has been one of their third party partners for years and who is currently helping them develop their metal gate tech? What are the seclusive AMD features that benchmark programs like 3Dmark are negating? If you have an AMD processor without SSE2 then send it back because someone jipped you my friend. So im not sure the point you are trying to make, but I do know that you are once again providing a response to something, which you have apparently no knowledge on and have no facts/proof to support your theories. And yes I have had my processor for less than a month, and have been enjoying it greatly. Just as I did my previous AMD 3700+ Sandy that I had for a year and then the Athlon X2 3800+ that I enjoyed for 3 months before I had the chance to jump over to a C2D system for ~$300 and as a a non ignorant person I seized the opportunity and now have a faster computer that runs cooler, more stable, and uses less power.

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 5:39:26 AM

In my opinion, in real world applications, the Geode processor wins. For those of you who dont know, the Geode is the AMD processor to power the $100 laptop for MIT's One Laptop Per Child (OLPC). What's more real than providing children around the world the opportunity to enchance their sociological awareness? Oh but wait, i forgot you can get a higher number to appear on your computer screen with your intel after running some hapless test program. I respect AMD for caring about PEOPLE over PROFIT.
February 13, 2007 5:42:17 AM

In your last senence, please add the phrase "and sold my soul" and I will atleast have something on which to agree with you.
February 13, 2007 5:44:48 AM

AMD cares about the bottom line just like Intel. AMD is no flowerchild loving saint.
February 13, 2007 5:46:11 AM

Yes hate on a company for attempting to turn a profit. Thats a good argument how bout both companies start selling us new processors for $20 that boast performance gains over previous generations and see how long we have a computer industry. Oh and you think AMD didnt get any cash from that? How then would they acquire the 5.4 billion dollar company ATI?(Not by giving away millions of $ me thinks!!!) They are in it for money just as any one else is. Currently both companies have their fair share of price to performance in different respected performance areas. If you dont believe me then continue to look at the CPU chart. So whats next? AMD is better because their logo is green? Your pathetic man, just let it be what it is and that is Intel is better now and six months from now im sure AMD will have either closed the gap or taken the lead...kudos for you. Its just how these things work.

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 5:48:10 AM

Amd stil has some great processors in the low to mid range,the e6300 is about the same price as a 4600+ x2
February 13, 2007 5:49:41 AM

I agree, AMD does have plenty of good processors to fit many peoples needs. In this case though the better route would be Intel for the OP friend as far as which one is faster and performs better. This getting a bit ridiculous (not refering to you impreza, lol sry!), so I am heading off to bed as I have an 8am class :( , good luck with Ghost guys!

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 5:56:41 AM

Quote:
In my opinion, in real world applications, the Geode processor wins. For those of you who dont know, the Geode is the AMD processor to power the $100 laptop for MIT's One Laptop Per Child (OLPC). What's more real than providing children around the world the opportunity to enchance their sociological awareness? Oh but wait, i forgot you can get a higher number to appear on your computer screen with your intel after running some hapless test program. I respect AMD for caring about PEOPLE over PROFIT.



Queue the sad, tear inducing music.

I suppose that all techies should like Bill Gates(a very-much loathed figure in the tech world)....because of the Bill & Linda foundation?
February 13, 2007 6:04:19 AM

Hmm ever consider the purchasing of ATI as a means to offer a collaberated production partnership between processor and video card which opens the door for innovation and choice for its customers at the lowest price? AMD-Always More Dedicated- to its customer. If Intel is sooo great then why do they have to be over-marketing whores. It's becuase they are NOT confident consumers will buy their product over competition, and they for sure as hell are NOT confident that past experience with their product will steer customers towards another intel purchase. AMD on the other hand build's their customer base more through peer advice and satisfaction stories. This will be my final post in this thread as it has gone its course, but i would like to conclude by stating yes, purchase the C2D. It will definetly make higher numerical digits appear on your screen and boot your computer Xms faster. But don't be suprised when you loose frames viewing a video in your web browser due to CPU usage overload.
February 13, 2007 6:22:01 AM

ROTFL! Just what color is that Sun and sky in your world? Whatever the color :wink: I hope you are happy there
February 13, 2007 7:21:27 AM

HAHAHA... good point!
February 13, 2007 10:53:26 AM

lol, yet again, making fun of a company for operating as a business and advertising a product? This guy will never make it in business if he continues this way of thinking. I guess he really does think that AMD is sitting in its offices thinking what can we do to make the customer happy without turning to much of a profit? I never said anything about Intel being almight, you are putting words in everyones mounth, we need them both as it has been said millions of times. You should accept this asw ell. Did I ever say n e thing about what the purchase of ATI meant? lol, no did I say it was bad, lol no. Wow dude...you have been officially owned and never once did you make a valid point or good argument, nor did you EVER show any PROOF to support anything that you said, which just makes my original post about you all the more truthful. It is time for you to just accept that C2D is just a better performer across the board at this current time. Thx for making it so easy for all of us to show you for what you really are. (You can swing it anyway you want to, but the numbers dont lie kid! Get over yourself.)

The 3 Steps to Ghost Logic: (RE: -disclaimer)

It's concept is very simple and is based on imagination. The amazing results are achieved in few steps:
Step 1: Ignore all facts, techical informations, logical explanations and arguments.
Step 2: Imagine that your hardware is the best and the fastest.
Step 3: Accept your wishes as reality and apply them to your real world.

Best,

3Ball
February 13, 2007 12:28:57 PM

Umm, so your saying don't look at the performance. Instead, buy from the supposedly more moral company. You know, you could at least make you position more believable by not sounding like a hippie.
February 13, 2007 12:50:52 PM

Pro or con, there are a ton more people out there that remember AMD-VIA machines that would lock, overheat and have many general problems in the 90s rather than as the temporary performance leader in the 00's (really, what is this decade called?). I think Intel is more than confident in their ability to maintain customer interest and correctly so; Intel is a powerhouse that has a great marketing team, incredible technology departments, and an aggressive sales force. The price war is to kick AMD when they're down, not because Intel is losing tons of MSS. Even when beaten by AMD (except in mobile), Intel was selling more than twice the numbers of chips in all segments.

CPU usage overload? Wow. That takes the cake for finding something wrong when there isn't anything. It's like reviewing a game and having the only con be "the music was just ok". :p 
February 13, 2007 1:14:29 PM

I agree with some of the guys in the forum either your friend:

a) Does not have internet. Check check www.extremetch.com, they have a full article on the matter.

b) He does not know how to read. At maximumPC they benchmarked core2duo e6600 and a similar athlon 64x2 and in some test the difference was an amazing 50% more performance.

c) He is an AMD fanboy. The debate on clock speeds is...just plain stupid. As some one already stated, AMD 64 ´s probed to be better performers than their similar P4, even though AMD run in lower clock speeds.

Men, information is crucial. If he does not understand, dont listen to him. If you are "your friend", men read!!

Con paciencia y salibita, un elefante le hace el favor a una hormiguita

8)
a c 111 à CPUs
February 13, 2007 2:08:28 PM

If its a scratch build today the C2D is definitely the way to go, thats really a [No Brainer] as one of my friends loves to say.
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