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All-In-Wonder & Vista

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February 9, 2007 2:50:05 AM

I've been running Vista for the last few months, but just removed it and returned to XP since Vista has no All-In-Wonder drivers.

Anyone have any good news from AMD about supporting the ALL-In-Wonder line?

I have 3 expensive boards sitting here with no new driver support.

More about : vista

February 9, 2007 3:49:20 AM

Quote:
I've been running Vista for the last few months, but just removed it and returned to XP since Vista has no All-In-Wonder drivers.

Anyone have any good news from AMD about supporting the ALL-In-Wonder line?

I have 3 expensive boards sitting here with no new driver support.


I thought these were the latest ALL-IN-WONDER drivers:
Click Here to check if these Are AIW Vista drivers you're looking for. 8O

They list the available drivers for the 32bit version of Vista starting from the 9600 All-In-Wonder boards up to the 1900 series.

PS: the 1000 series and up all use the same drivers the 1900's use.
February 9, 2007 4:15:10 AM

No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!
Related resources
February 9, 2007 10:20:32 AM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


THIS REALLY SUX!!!
February 9, 2007 11:04:47 AM

That puts my Vista install off for a while. I'm not that sure I would have good lluck with my x600 AIW anyway, even if there was a good driver.
February 9, 2007 11:30:57 AM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


Thats not true - multimedia works fine on my machine, and has since RC1. Try running driver cleaner and reinstall the driver
February 9, 2007 11:54:43 AM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


Thats not true - multimedia works fine on my machine, and has since RC1. Try running driver cleaner and reinstall the driver

It's true. I'm was running RC1, and it didn't. I moved to RTM, did a clean install, and it's the same. Microsoft says it's AMD's fault for not releasin full drivers for AIW.

Vista loads it's media center, but it does not see the AIW tuner because ATI/AMD has not released the drivers.
Vista will however see the lone tuers like the standalone $49.00 tuners
February 9, 2007 12:00:27 PM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


Thats not true - multimedia works fine on my machine, and has since RC1. Try running driver cleaner and reinstall the driver

It's true. I'm was running RC1, and it didn't. I moved to RTM, did a clean install, and it's the same. Microsoft says it's AMD's fault for not releasin full drivers for AIW.

Vista loads it's media center, but it does not see the AIW tuner because ATI/AMD has not released the drivers.
Vista will however see the lone tuers like the standalone $49.00 tuners

Then explain to me why and how ATI's multimedia center works on my machine with Vista?
February 9, 2007 12:02:43 PM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


Thats not true - multimedia works fine on my machine, and has since RC1. Try running driver cleaner and reinstall the driver

It's true. I'm was running RC1, and it didn't. I moved to RTM, did a clean install, and it's the same. Microsoft says it's AMD's fault for not releasin full drivers for AIW.

Vista loads it's media center, but it does not see the AIW tuner because ATI/AMD has not released the drivers.
Vista will however see the lone tuers like the standalone $49.00 tuners

Then explain to me why and how ATI's multimedia center works on my machine with Vista?

Don't start me lying! ;) 
This reviewer is seeing what I see.

As with previous ATI Catalyst beta releases, ATI Catalyst 7.1 only supports ATI Radeon 9500 series or higher graphics cards on the desktop and mobile-front. AMD ATI All-in-Wonder cards are only supported as a display device, VIVO features are unsupported on All-in-Wonder and VIVO capable cards at the time. ATI Theater 550 Pro based products are also supported, though the release notes make no mention of Theater 650-based products.

http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Releases+ATI+Catalyst+71+f...
February 9, 2007 12:25:18 PM

Why, and how would I start you lying? When I get home from work, I'll post a screen shot.
February 9, 2007 12:37:08 PM

Quote:
Why, and how would I start you lying? When I get home from work, I'll post a screen shot.


Because I'd have to lie to explain to you why your tuner is working and others aren't. Perhaps it's due to new AIW cards using the Theater 650 chip which is not yet supported in Vista.
Who knows, I don't even know whcih board you are using.
February 9, 2007 12:42:23 PM

I had an experience with ATi's All-in-Wonder card, but not specifically relating to Vista. I had it installed in an older machine running WindowsXP, and it worked fine. Then I moved it to another machine, with newer components and running WinXP and the card wouldn't work properly. I could get some very basic functionality, but the software just wouldn't install properly. I was baffled, because both computers were running the same OS. Eventually I pawned the capture card.

Maybe my situation helps explain the disparity between Truisys' and Chicagosoftplan's experiences. I think the All-in-Wonder is flaky to the point of conflicting with other video card drivers (the capture card I had was capture-only. I have a separate video card). The problems Truisys is having may have nothing to do with Vista. Then again, if Truisys is using a digital capture, Vista might require extra fudging of the signal due to DRM protection.

A quick search in Google for "x1800 Vista" results in this page at the top of the list. Apparently, this person contacted AMD and found out that Vista doesn't yet support video-in. Maybe this is specific to this card, but from what I've read Vista is designed to put controls on content copying. Their DRM scheme might take a while for AMD to program around.
February 9, 2007 12:50:05 PM

Quote:

Maybe my situation helps explain the disparity between Truisys' and Chicagosoftplan's experiences. I think the All-in-Wonder is flaky to the point of conflicting with other video card drivers (the capture card I had was capture-only. I have a separate video card). The problems Truisys is having may have nothing to do with Vista. Then again, if Truisys is using a digital capture, Vista might require extra fudging of the signal due to DRM protection.


The problem is ATI/AMD have not released complete drivers for AIW. My AIW boards work fine under XP or 2000.
I have 2 systems running Win2000 with AIW, one running XP, and ran Vista RC1, RC2, and RTM on another. I just deleted Vista from this fourth machine due to it having zero value to me. Wish I could run OS-X!

Go to AMD/ATI website and they acknowledge that the problem is real. First they said they'd release operable drivers when Vista is released. Now they say they will release full Vista AIW drivers "in the future".
February 9, 2007 1:28:22 PM

Quote:
No, it will not install capture or Theater drivers, but only the GPU driver. It treats an All-In-Wonder like a regular Video Card minus all the multimedia options.
AMD/ATI/Microsoft sucks!


Thats not true - multimedia works fine on my machine, and has since RC1. Try running driver cleaner and reinstall the driver

I have an X1900 AIW and can't for the life of me get any TV in function out of it since switching to vista recently. There is driver support, but from what I can tell it is as others have said where it only gives graphics card support and not the other tv tuner functions, etc. What is also frusterating is that I cant seem to get the Remote Wonder to work either, which was nice to have while watching movies and such.

By multimedia, do you mean that you watch mpg's or that your tv tuner is accessible? If you have the multimedia working on your computer, what programs did you install to have it? As far as I can tell, the suite of programs to use the tuner that are available for the AIW are not available for Vista.
February 9, 2007 2:13:09 PM

I've been watching T.V. on it with Vista. I'm not sure which driver I'm using though - it might be the beta and not 7.1. I'll check this evening.
February 9, 2007 2:35:20 PM

This thread is about All-In-Wonders. Sounds as if you don't have one.
February 23, 2007 10:44:43 PM

I e-mailed them and here is what i got:

All in Wonder Radeon Support
Currently, only the graphics portions for All in Wonder cards are supported in Windows Vista. This means that in Windows Vista, the TV tuner functionality of your All in Wonder card will not be available.
ALL-IN-WONDER BOARDS OPERATE WITH AMD'S WINDOWS VISTA-READY DISPLAY DRIVERS UNDER THE WINDOWS VISTA OPERATING SYSTEM. HOWEVER, THERE IS CURRENTLY NO SOFTWARE APPLICATION WHICH PROVIDES TV/CAPTURE FUNCTIONALITY FOR ALL-IN WONDER BOARDS UNDER WINDOWS VISTA
TV Tuner Support
Please note that these TV Tuners support all versions of Windows VistaT. The details are below:
Windows Vista Support Criteria & Availablity
WDM Driver Support Windows Media Center ATI Catalyst Media Center
TV Wonder 650 January 2007 January 2007 Early 2007
TV Wonder 550 Now Now Early 2007
TV Wonder Elite Now Now Early 2007
TV Wonder 200 PCI Mid 2007 No Mid 2007
TV Wonder Pro Mid 2007 No Mid 2007
TV Wonder USB 2.0 Mid 2007 Mid 2007 Mid 2007


For the full e-mail PM me and i will forward it to you (anyone).
February 23, 2007 10:50:45 PM

Thanks for posting.
I've since uninstall that piece of junk Vista and installed Linux.
In the future I will be buying Nvidia Theater cards.
AMD sucks!
February 25, 2007 6:09:43 AM

Quote:
Thanks for posting.
I've since uninstall that piece of junk Vista and installed Linux.
In the future I will be buying Nvidia Theater cards.
AMD sucks!


LOL!

As if nV were any better. Still no NVTV drivers for VISTA either, go to their site it's just XP-MCE, no Vista.

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/endus...**&p_li=&p_topview=1

So like AMD/ATi it's only certain solutions that are supported.
And really the nV theatre products suck hard! Why do people think the competition for AMD/ATi in video capture/tuning is nV? Seriously do some research before you throw more money away. At least AMD/ATi's products compete with the standalones, nV's don't come close, and they aren't about to improve in the near future, they're pretty much pulling out of the market like they did with sound.

The smart thing is to get a serious card like a Hauppauge, and yes most of their products support Vista;
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/vista.html
February 25, 2007 11:57:47 AM

Yeah right. I have two 250s and they work well.
I'll be buying Nvidia because now that AMD has brought ATI they'll end up screwing up the company even worst then they were.
AMD is a habitual loser and AT will be the same.
February 25, 2007 8:24:51 PM

Well buy nV graphics cards, they're good (best high end right now, and the GF8 mid-range will be here by Spring), but their theatre / my cinema products are crap, better to go with the stand alone cards.
March 11, 2007 4:32:23 PM

Spoke on phone with an AMD/ATI customer/tech support person...he said their are currently NO PLANS to to develop AIW tuner drivers for VISTA as that what he has heard the focus will be graphics development mainly and few stand alone tuners--the AMD side wants to develop chipset and CPU solutions only!!!! NOW THAT REALLY SUCKS!!!! :evil: 
March 11, 2007 5:20:21 PM

Makes sense, since according to MS/Vista, you're not allowed to record anything. I imagine the effort required to get TV tuner hardware working in the Vista environment is so great that ATI/AMD has decided it's better to just come out with new hardware to do the job.

Speaking of Vista being used for a media centre PC, does anyone have experience with Vista and 5-channel sound?
March 11, 2007 5:30:22 PM

Quote:
Spoke on phone with an AMD/ATI customer/tech support person...he said their are currently NO PLANS to to develop AIW tuner drivers for VISTA as that what he has heard the focus will be graphics development mainly and few stand alone tuners--the AMD side wants to develop chipset and CPU solutions only!!!! NOW THAT REALLY SUCKS!!!! :evil: 


These large companies hire employees only if they lack common sense and scrupples.
The AIW line was a high margin product. Obviously something within the Theater chipset was/is some non-vista compliant hardware.
Still, AMD/ATI took a less than customer freindly route in supporting this high end expensive product.
It has nothing to do with AMD/Vista recording options. You can do the same with a cheap Win-TV, which is supported.
It's just a sure sign of the absolute "dumbness" and lack of common sense of PC corporate marketing.

I have to admit that includes me as one of their former customers. :( 

I'm running under UBUNTU 6.10 now and it rocks! :) 

During install, it doesn't even ask for any hardware drivers and comes up recognizing everything with all drivers installed.

You can boot off the CD and run everything from there prior to making the decision to load onto your hard drive.

It features built-in Firefox as the internet browser of choice, and evolution as the email client.
The Add/Remove programs/Applications feature is great!
March 11, 2007 6:13:24 PM

I've been running ubuntu 64-bit for my HTPC for some time now. I'm very impressed overall. I sold my all-in-wonder caputre card a year ago because it stopped working (in XP) and support from ATi was non-existant, so I'm not using MythTV functions, but VLC for .avi files, Totem for DVD playback, and XMMS for ogg/mp3 music handles all of the media needs I have. Azureus doesn't hurt either ;) . Oh yeah, and I use transcode for video formatting as needed.

The machine is on 24/7, and I have it dedicated to run Folding@Home in the background.

I have to say I look forward to when I can download shows legitimately and use them the way I want. I somehow expect that those not using Vista will be excluded from download-to-own DRM'd video playback. It seems to me that all this DRM stuff does is make it harder for me to do things legally. For instance, the iTunes music store is useless to me since I have a Creative mp3 player. It's still easier (and usually cheaper) for me to just buy the CD and rip it myself.
March 11, 2007 6:58:54 PM

This is one of the main reasons I am avoiding Vista like the plague. That and the fact that it sucks.

Its funny, my AIW 9800 pro doesn't handle the TV functions right in Ubuntu 6.10 without some additional packages and configuration (which I have NOT succeeded in doing yet). I wonder if it will be different for my x1900 AIW when I get around to installing it there?
March 12, 2007 3:03:20 AM

Quote:
This is one of the main reasons I am avoiding Vista like the plague. That and the fact that it sucks.
Wish some of these "happy" peeps would post over on the "I love Vista" thread -- aka "Don't believe the hype, Use VISTA" -- (or to all the friends I made on the the "Magic Tune and Vista?" thread), so the Vole sycophants could see there really is no joy in Mudville. Keep up the good fight.

BTW hergieburbur, went away for the weekend, can't believe that USB Floppy thread is still going on. The ole' boy's gonna go out kickin'. Jeeez!
March 12, 2007 4:14:18 AM

I've been b!tching about this issue for months, since I first tried RC1.

As for the USB fogey, what can I say, some people refuse to learn or accept progress. I wouldn't keep going at it with him, but its just soooo much fun exposing people like that. :twisted:
March 12, 2007 4:26:02 AM

Quote:
I've been b!tching about this issue for months, since I first tried RC1.

As for the USB fogey, what can I say, some people refuse to learn or accept progress. I wouldn't keep going at it with him, but its just soooo much fun exposing people like that.
I've had almost the exact same experiences on both fronts. (Check out the moron that just "didn't get it" on that Magic Tune thread -- I wanted to quote your sig on one of his replies, but then realized the wisdom of your quote and begged off, less I be confused for the idiot. Now that I have realized the source, I've saved it for later. 8) ) We should start a thread on posters with bad attitudes -- funny how it's usually the ones with fewer than 50 posts. They're like people with some dreaded disease that don't want to face the reality, so they keep going to different doctors until they find the one that gives them the opinion they want to hear. "To hell with learning, I just want to hear what makes me happy." 8O Go figure.
March 12, 2007 4:37:05 AM

I was thinking that to, but it would get locked in seconds.

I think a lot of those people that don't seem to get it are people that think since they've used computers for a while and visited a few tech sites, they are qualified as "experts". No offense to anyone, but there seem to be an awful lot of "experts" here.

Not sure I wanted to open that can of worms.
March 12, 2007 4:53:08 AM

Quote:
I was thinking that to, but it would get locked in seconds.

I think a lot of those people that don't seem to get it are people that think since they've used computers for a while and visited a few tech sites, they are qualified as "experts". No offense to anyone, but there seem to be an awful lot of "experts" here.

Not sure I wanted to open that can of worms.
The Chinese have a saying that "one person can be very smart, but when you put three people together, you have a genius." The point, of course, being that regardless of expertise, a forum should be a place for the open sharing of ideas, and respect in their reception. If you don't like what you hear, a simple "thank you for your time and consideration," then move on would suffice. Admittedly, I immediately bristle when someone fires off, or makes presumptions about me without any background knowledge whatsoever, just because I expressed an opinion they didn't like. But then, I'm preaching to the choir. Maybe someone else will "hear." Have a good one! MM
March 12, 2007 4:57:57 AM

My problem is I don't always follow my own advice.

Have a good one.
March 13, 2007 4:07:18 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have two problems related to this topic. First, I cannot get anything other than a server-generated reply from ATI to my e-mails asking when they will have a Vista compatible software upgrade to allow me to use the input/output functions of my two All in Wonder video cards. I downloaded their Vista driver upgrades. They work just fine, but I am mising all of the multimedia functions that ran under XP. I gather from the various posts that ATI does not plan to support AIW fucntions under Vista. It sounds like a breach of contract and the possible basis for a class action suit against them.

My second problem is that I cannot find any card or external device that will import 1080i HD video from my Hughes Direct TV DVR into my computer. I have a Pyro external breakout box that inputs into my computer through Firewire. It has component inputs, but they appear to be designed for 480 i or p, not HD. That is a great device, but I do not see any signs that they plan to manufacture a new model capable of capturing HD. Some of the professional video editing cards and devices appear to have the capability of importing HD video, but they are very expensvie.

I am not trying to do anything illegal. My Huges HD PVR is full now with HD content I have recorded off Direct TV. I need a way of moving it off the PVR and archiving it, in HD 1080i format, onto a 750 GB hard drive in my computer, so I can play these recordings back through the component or DVI inputs of my television (Sony XBR 40 inch HD CRT with DVI in but not HDMI).

I would apprecitate any leads or advice from your members.

Thanks,

Ron
March 13, 2007 9:24:39 PM

The problem seems to be that in the past, ATI multimedia center was non indows Media Center compliant. In fact, it was proprietary and not a workable solution under Windows Media edition.
Obviously, this has caused great problems for ATI to get the old setup working under Vista. They very likely have to redo everything from scratch whereas Windows Media Center compliant vendors like Hauppauage do not.
March 18, 2007 7:05:10 PM

You need a paradigm shift: It's a dark time for Vista owners.
March 18, 2007 7:34:01 PM

Let's face it. The computer industry is on the decline for developing innovative and full system solutions.
We have dual and quad core CPUs but have no OS or apps to support them.
Gigabit ethernet laying on 200kb/s ISPs.
Vista is a piece of junk. Clearly OSX should be on every desktop, but it's not because Apple fears it would affect their bottom line.

The industry is in entropy, and now consists of nothing but marketing and repackagers.
It is time for a paradigm shift.
March 18, 2007 11:05:54 PM

Amen, brother. You get my vote!
April 30, 2007 12:21:39 PM

I was looking around the web and found this.
http://review.zdnet.com/ATI_All_In_Wonder_X1900/4507-89...

It states
Vista Capability This video card has a TV tuner, and is capable of
supporting the multimedia capabilities of the Home
Premium and Ultimate versions of Windows Vista.

So where did they get the Vista Capability information? ATI? Good Guess?

Before I purchased the card under the ATI website it said that The following products support Windows Vista and the X1900 All-in-Wonder was listed and the little *Note was not on the website (* NOTE: ALL-IN-WONDER BOARDS OPERATE WITH AMD’S WINDOWS VISTA-READY DISPLAY DRIVERS UNDER THE WINDOWS VISTA OPERATING SYSTEM. HOWEVER THERE IS CURRENTLY NO SOFTWARE APPLICATION WHICH PROVIDES TV/CAPTURE FUNCTIONALITY FOR ALL-IN WONDER BOARDS UNDER WINDOWS VISTA)

Lets Stick it to "THE MAN" :D 
April 30, 2007 12:35:14 PM

You are right. It is plain and simple "false" advertising. The AIW does support Vista, but only the video section of the card. AMD is such a messed up company, I don't think they will last as is throughout the year. LOL, I even tryed getting a WinTV to work in Vista but it won't see the Tuner of that either.
I think these computer companies have reached the end of the road for being innovative, and everything just goes down hill from here.
April 30, 2007 4:26:56 PM

So how is what it says on ZDnet's false advertising on the part of AMD? AMDs website clearly says that AIWs currently don't work with Vista (one reason I won't use it) except for video rendering. This is due to a change in the way Vista handles services that locked out the MMC program, requiring a ground-up rewrite for a product that is being discontinued....

Seems pretty clear to me, even if it does really suck...
April 30, 2007 4:36:34 PM

Yes, it says that in small print at the bottom. Most people come to me with these after they purchased them from a distributor who told them they'd be OK. Then the distributor dosn't want to take them back. It's an expensive scam like the Nigerian mail fraud except it's legal form AMD, MS, or Intel to scam you.

For video cards, save yourself some grief and buy NVIDIA.
April 30, 2007 4:40:38 PM

Quote:
Yes, it says that in small print at the bottom. Most people come to me with these after they purchased them from a distributor who told them they'd be OK. Then the distributor dosn't want to take them back. It's an expensive scam like the Nigerian mail fraud except it's legal form AMD, MS, or Intel to scam you.
That's on the distributors, not the manufacturer

Quote:
For video cards, save yourself some grief and buy NVIDIA.
That statement has nothing to do with this topic, especially when people are trying to set up a class action lawsuit against NVidia for false advertising in relation to driver support of their 8800 Series in Vista...

Making such general and uninformed statements ruins your credibility. You should never say one company's products are always better than another...
April 30, 2007 5:19:57 PM

No, manufacturers control distributors, not the other way around.
Product responsibility always ultimately falls to the manufacturer.
I'm not seeking your confidence. Why would I when there is nothing to be gained. This message is a freebie so that others might not experience the same.
April 30, 2007 5:25:10 PM

I kinda have my all in wonder working in vista. I downloaded the RC0 drivers. and install them on a fresh install of Vista(NO ATI UPDATED DRIVER INSTALLED). Then used AMCap to watch TV. The only prob is that the DEMO version will not keep settings, and the aspect ratio is set to widescreen. You can strech it to fit on a non widescreen.

Hopefully ATI/AMD will get a good program to work with Vista. They said Mid 2007 but I hope it is real soon.
April 30, 2007 5:35:03 PM

Good for you. I just spoke to a friend at AMD working on Fusion who tells me that AMD will never provide support for AIW with Vista. In fact, he says that AMD will obsolete all of the AIW series once Fusion is released. Good luck.
April 30, 2007 5:47:56 PM

Quote:
No, manufacturers control distributors, not the other way around.
Product responsibility always ultimately falls to the manufacturer.
I'm not seeking your confidence. Why would I when there is nothing to be gained. This message is a freebie so that others might not experience the same.
You are wrong there though. I've work for and with resellers, and while there are things that are within the control of the manufacturer, ultimately, the distributor determines what they put in their own product listings. Otherwise they would all be the same.

You are free to claim you are providing a public service message, and you somewhat are, but you are also spreading FUD against AMD by claiming false advertising where none exists.

For the Record, its already been stated that the x1900 is the last AIW card and that is extremely unlikely it will ever get Vista support. One more reason I have no use for Vista.
May 2, 2007 11:13:04 PM

I don not think that it is a reason not to go to Vista. I look at it in a way as to NEVER buy ATI again!

I have no problems with Vista. It’s all on ATI's shoulders. They should have created drivers for Vista. I see a lot of other Analog TV tuners that work in Vista. Its just ATI does not care for its Loyal Customers, like the ones that have owned three generations of the All-In-Wonder Line. Just because they have our money they do not care. If I would have known I would have never purchased it. Don’t get me wrong I love the card; it runs great in XP MCE. But I want to use Vista as my primary OS, not XP MCE, I want a dual boot (Vista/Linux) Not a Tri boot.

I understand that a company can’t support every product they sold on a new OS. I could understand if the product was 3-5 years old and the wont support it. But a card that was released just over one year ago? Come on! I have a old HP scanner and I understand that they didn’t make drivers because its over 4 years old. I am fine with that. I think its time for me to get a new scanner. Not a new TV tuner!

Just my $.02
May 2, 2007 11:47:26 PM

I should start out by saying that this is far from my only reason for going to Vista. Lets not get into any kind of debate here on Vista, I'll just say that in my opinion it is inferior software.

I do understand where you are coming from, but I don't think its as simple as you think. At the bare minimum, both parties are at fault. The bad part is, neither will do anything to fix it.

The problem is not because ATI won't write drivers for the cards, as those are out. Plus, most other ATI tuners work OK in Vista. The problem lies in the way the MMC interfaces with the OS. The MMC interacts with Windows XP on the service level. That is no longer allowed in Vista. I think this problem is compounded by the fact that the AIW Tuner is accessed directly through the graphics interface. I believe thats why they can't just modify the existing TV Tuner softwareto work with AIW in Vista. At least thats my understanding. Its also my understanding that there are workarounds out there.

I think it sucks that we won't see Vista support for AIWs, but its not surprising. Its no trivial think to re-write the software from the ground up to work in Vista. Further, MS (and probably ATI), knew this would happen as a result of their new kernel, and weren't overly concerned with it. I think this is because ATI had already leaked that the x1900 series AIW would be the last one in the line, and that they would be discontinuing support at some point.

It sucks, but thats the way it is. And keep in mind, this is coming from someone that has owned several generations of AIW card, going back to the 7500 days.
!