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digital vs analog satellite quality

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Anonymous
July 8, 2004 2:08:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I originally posted this on the dbs forum, but no one answered, so I thought
I'd give it a whirl here....

I have a 14 year old, 27" sony tv. Always has had a good picture. I also
have a 2 year
old digital panasonic 47" (16x9) rear projection tv that when viewing a 4:3
image has a diagonal image of around 38". This tv looks really really good
when viewing hdtv, non hd digital ota signal or dvds, but the picture is
horrendous when viewing directv. The same complaints that everyone has,
bleeding colors, over compressed, blah blah blah.

The dilemna is, the directv looks great on the analog sony. You can hardly
tell it's an overcompressed digital source. I know the picture is smaller
(only 7% smaller though) which always makes the picture look better, but it
doesn't seem to account for the dramatic difference. The colors stay put
better, the edges seem more crisp, and I don't notice as much of the blocky
shade transitions (though I haven't noticed that as much in general lately).
Is there some tweak for my panny that I haven't discovered? Are panasonics
notorious for displaying directv particularly poorly? Is it the line
doubling? I've had the front panel off and disabled the svm. I've tried
every possible combination of settings in the control panel. I've been in
the service menus and tweaked the gazillion point convergence and all that
stuff, and as I've said, from every other source, the picure is great. I've
got dtv hooked up via component output to the panny, and from the same box
through coax to the sony which is in another room, so it's definitely not a
cabling problem.

I've actually started watching satellite on the sony most of the time even
though it's smaller and save the panasonic for watching other material.

Anyway, I'm through rambling about my earth shattering problem now. If
anyone has any info I'd be forever grateful !!

Thanks, Allison
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 5:46:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Allyb wrote:
> I originally posted this on the dbs forum, but no one answered, so I
> thought I'd give it a whirl here....
>
> I have a 14 year old, 27" sony tv. Always has had a good picture. I
> also have a 2 year
> old digital panasonic 47" (16x9) rear projection tv that when viewing
> a 4:3 image has a diagonal image of around 38". This tv looks really
> really good when viewing hdtv, non hd digital ota signal or dvds, but
> the picture is horrendous when viewing directv. The same complaints
> that everyone has, bleeding colors, over compressed, blah blah blah.
>
> The dilemna is, the directv looks great on the analog sony. You can
> hardly tell it's an overcompressed digital source. I know the
> picture is smaller (only 7% smaller though) which always makes the
> picture look better, but it doesn't seem to account for the dramatic
> difference. The colors stay put better, the edges seem more crisp,
> and I don't notice as much of the blocky shade transitions (though I
> haven't noticed that as much in general lately). Is there some tweak
> for my panny that I haven't discovered? Are panasonics notorious for
> displaying directv particularly poorly? Is it the line doubling?
> I've had the front panel off and disabled the svm. I've tried every
> possible combination of settings in the control panel. I've been in
> the service menus and tweaked the gazillion point convergence and all
> that stuff, and as I've said, from every other source, the picure is
> great. I've got dtv hooked up via component output to the panny, and
> from the same box through coax to the sony which is in another room,
> so it's definitely not a cabling problem.
>
> I've actually started watching satellite on the sony most of the time
> even though it's smaller and save the panasonic for watching other
> material.
>
> Anyway, I'm through rambling about my earth shattering problem now.
> If anyone has any info I'd be forever grateful !!
>
> Thanks, Allison

Your 38" 4:3 image on your 47" set is twice the size of your 27" set:
350 sq-in vs. 693 sq-in. That might be enough for you to start seeing
compression artifacts.

Now, I watch DirecTV on a 46" Pioneer SD set and don't frequently notice
the digital artifacts especially on the better stations like HBO. Many
MLB Extra Inning stations are very, very soft, as are many of the
lesser-watched stations (local networks as well). FX, TNT, HBO, and the
more popular stations tend to have less compression and look pretty
good.



--
David G.
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 7:55:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Allyb" <allyb@a1isp.net> wrote (in part):

>I have a 14 year old, 27" sony tv. Always has had a good picture. I also
>have a 2 year
>old digital panasonic 47" (16x9) rear projection tv that when viewing a 4:3
>image has a diagonal image of around 38". This tv looks really really good
>when viewing hdtv, non hd digital ota signal or dvds, but the picture is
>horrendous when viewing directv. The same complaints that everyone has,
>bleeding colors, over compressed, blah blah blah.
>
>The dilemna is, the directv looks great on the analog sony. You can hardly
>tell it's an overcompressed digital source. I know the picture is smaller
>(only 7% smaller though) which always makes the picture look better, but it
>doesn't seem to account for the dramatic difference. The colors stay put
>better, the edges seem more crisp, and I don't notice as much of the blocky
>shade transitions (though I haven't noticed that as much in general lately).

I suspect the biggest problem is that DirecTV's digitized (and heavily
compressed) picture is converted to analog by the receiver, then back
to digital for display on your Panasonic. Your Sony doesn't need to
reconvert it. My (limited) experience is that the picture can degrade
pretty quickly as you go back and forth.

I'm seeing similar problems, particularly with blotchiness and other
color errors in darker parts of the picture, when I feed an old
DirecTV receiver into the A/V input of my OTA HD receiver/DVR. It
looks better when I feed it directly to my projector, which must also
digitize it again, which probably just shows that some digitizers are
better than others.

E. Ogden <eoyymm@nycap.rr.com>
where yymm is the current year and month
Anonymous
July 8, 2004 9:12:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Allyb wrote:
>
> I originally posted this on the dbs forum, but no one answered, so I thought
> I'd give it a whirl here....
>
> I have a 14 year old, 27" sony tv. Always has had a good picture. I also
> have a 2 year
> old digital panasonic 47" (16x9) rear projection tv that when viewing a 4:3
> image has a diagonal image of around 38". This tv looks really really good
> when viewing hdtv, non hd digital ota signal or dvds, but the picture is
> horrendous when viewing directv. The same complaints that everyone has,
> bleeding colors, over compressed, blah blah blah.
>
> The dilemna is, the directv looks great on the analog sony. You can hardly
> tell it's an overcompressed digital source. I know the picture is smaller
> (only 7% smaller though) which always makes the picture look better, but it
> doesn't seem to account for the dramatic difference. The colors stay put
> better, the edges seem more crisp, and I don't notice as much of the blocky
> shade transitions (though I haven't noticed that as much in general lately).
> Is there some tweak for my panny that I haven't discovered? Are panasonics
> notorious for displaying directv particularly poorly? Is it the line
> doubling? I've had the front panel off and disabled the svm. I've tried
> every possible combination of settings in the control panel. I've been in
> the service menus and tweaked the gazillion point convergence and all that
> stuff, and as I've said, from every other source, the picure is great. I've
> got dtv hooked up via component output to the panny, and from the same box
> through coax to the sony which is in another room, so it's definitely not a
> cabling problem.
>
> I've actually started watching satellite on the sony most of the time even
> though it's smaller and save the panasonic for watching other material.
>
> Anyway, I'm through rambling about my earth shattering problem now. If
> anyone has any info I'd be forever grateful !!
>
> Thanks, Allison


I was able to do a side-by-side comparison - I went from a 32" JVC which
had an excellent picture with the better DTV channels to a 32" HDTV JVC
which degrades all non-HD sources much as you describe.

It seems to be a fact of life with digital TVs.

For my next media room, I'm aiming for a 50" plasma for HD and a 36"
analog set for everything else.
!