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Basic Newbie HDTV Questions

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July 8, 2004 9:20:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hi,

The plummeting prices on HD Monitors have recently attracted my attention.
I'm not a videophile/audiophile, I'm simply just your average consumer that
is interesting in a new technologies that would make DVD, cable, and even
game console playback "look really good". HDTV was something that I had
read about LONG ago in "Byte Magazine" (around 1987!), but having not
followed it's development, I decided that I would first do research on the
subject before making an implusive purchase. I started out thinking that my
main research would be geared around which type of television (CRT, LCD,
Plasma) -- but needless to say I quickly discovered there is much more to
consider!

I've done extensive researching and reading, but I'm still left with a few
basic questions.

"HD Monitors", of course, don't have built-in tuners. I've come across
posts on the web that criticize HD Monitors as being "fake-HDTVs", but if
one the objectives of manufactures offering these monitors is to attract the
average consumer (thats me), then that makes perfect sense. I'm not
interested in HDTV over-the-air broadcast. I plan on subscribing to HD
cable service. I also already have a 480p DVD player. (I know 480p isn't
HD.) I can't see a reason to get a HDTV monitor with built-in tuner, as the
tuner would get little use -- and may even be obsolete in a couple years.

First question I have is in regard to cable/satellite set-top boxes. Before
I ask the question regarding service-provided equipment, allow me to give me
reason for asking the question.

As I began to research HDTV, I quickly came across the various resolutions
for HDTV sets. 480-interlaced (regular TV), 480-progressive scan,
720-progessive scan, and 1080-interlaced. (I'm aware of all the other ATSC
resolutions, but just going with these to build up to the question.) I
also read about and understand fully why 720p is desirable for fast action,
while 1080i is desirable for broadcast without fast action. It makes sense
why ESPN would chose 720p, as their primary broadcast is fast-paced sports.
It makes sense while PBS would chose 1080i, as their primary broadcast is
documentaries and such.

What doesn't make sense, however, is why so few HDTV's support 720p?
Practically all that I looked at as a possibile purchase support only 480i,
480p, and 1080i. I've read that many of these sets don't display 720p, but
will convert it to either 480p or 1080i. Conversion would definetly be
something that I would consider, as I'm sure I'll be watching ESPN -- and
also playing an XBox on the TV. (Practically all of the HD games for X-Box
are 720p.) I'm finding it to be quite difficult to know if a certain
HDTV/monitor does this conversion, as it's not always clearly spelled out on
the manufacturers' specs. I've sent several emails to different
manufacturers, asking if this done for a few sets I'm considering.

Now, the first question. The service-provided set-top box, do they do this
conversion if the TV doesn't? I.e., if the TV doesn't do 720p, would be
greated to a black screen if you switched to HD EPN? Also, are
cable/satellite HD receivers a seperate piece of equipment -- with an input
coming the cable/satellite box and output to the TV? I'm hoping so, as then
perhaps the HD receiver could be used to convert the XBox's 720p to 480p or
1080i.

In hopes to not start a heated thread, would it be more desirable to convert
720p to 480p or 1080i? I can see the advantages and disadvantges for both.
(Some TV's that I have found that do this conversion convert 720p to 480p,
while others convert to 1080i.)

Please, I'm not wanting to start a 720p versus 1080i debate, as I've read
plenty of them already now. :^) One thing I found that both camps (720p
and 1080i) agree on is that 1080p will be most desirable. I've looked at a
few sets that do 1080p (expensive!), but if I were to consider getting one
I'd defintly wait until 1080p is being broadcasted and on HD-DVD (aren't
they going to be 1080p), but most of all the price is considerably less.
How long of wait would this be?

Finally, I've been reading about D-VHS. Its kind of funny that videotapes
are actually something to be considered again! Very cool though! I imagine
this is just an interim solution until HD-DVD? (Or if you want to do
recording?) D-VHS is actually something I'd consider, but for applications
beyond HD content. As its a digital recording device, I would seriously
consider D-VHS for the capability of backing up PC data. That would be very
cool.

There is much more involved than what I first thought there was, but I'm
slowly getting there. I want to ensure that I'm HDTV wise before going into
a retail store. I'm sure I'll get many half-truths from the sales-kid,
along with the usual pitching for stupid monster cables.

TIA...!
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 8, 2004 1:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

JamesA wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The plummeting prices on HD Monitors have recently attracted my attention.
> I'm not a videophile/audiophile, I'm simply just your average consumer that
> is interesting in a new technologies that would make DVD, cable, and even
> game console playback "look really good". HDTV was something that I had
> read about LONG ago in "Byte Magazine" (around 1987!), but having not
> followed it's development, I decided that I would first do research on the
> subject before making an implusive purchase. I started out thinking that my
> main research would be geared around which type of television (CRT, LCD,
> Plasma) -- but needless to say I quickly discovered there is much more to
> consider!
>
> I've done extensive researching and reading, but I'm still left with a few
> basic questions.
>
> "HD Monitors", of course, don't have built-in tuners. I've come across
> posts on the web that criticize HD Monitors as being "fake-HDTVs", but if
> one the objectives of manufactures offering these monitors is to attract the
> average consumer (thats me), then that makes perfect sense. I'm not
> interested in HDTV over-the-air broadcast. I plan on subscribing to HD
> cable service. I also already have a 480p DVD player. (I know 480p isn't
> HD.) I can't see a reason to get a HDTV monitor with built-in tuner, as the
> tuner would get little use -- and may even be obsolete in a couple years.
>
> First question I have is in regard to cable/satellite set-top boxes. Before
> I ask the question regarding service-provided equipment, allow me to give me
> reason for asking the question.
>
> As I began to research HDTV, I quickly came across the various resolutions
> for HDTV sets. 480-interlaced (regular TV), 480-progressive scan,
> 720-progessive scan, and 1080-interlaced. (I'm aware of all the other ATSC
> resolutions, but just going with these to build up to the question.) I
> also read about and understand fully why 720p is desirable for fast action,
> while 1080i is desirable for broadcast without fast action. It makes sense
> why ESPN would chose 720p, as their primary broadcast is fast-paced sports.
> It makes sense while PBS would chose 1080i, as their primary broadcast is
> documentaries and such.
>
> What doesn't make sense, however, is why so few HDTV's support 720p?


For both early HDTVs and less expensive HDTVs, 720p takes more

electronic 'horsepower' to implement than 1080i.... so 1080i

was used more often... One benefit of 720p is that it takes

up less transmission band width than 1080i.

As for set top boxes, (note OTA, Cable, & Dish boxes are all
different),

these boxes can receive or convert/down convert either
manually(switch) or

automatically (menu) between 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i.

The better HDTV sets can receive all 4 modes... Other sets with a

native preference or less tuner features can handle 3 of the
modes.....

As far as 1080p goes, 1080p60 has too much bandwidth for HDTV
transmission,

1080p30 or 1080p24 are doable but odd balls.




> Practically all that I looked at as a possibile purchase support only 480i,
> 480p, and 1080i. I've read that many of these sets don't display 720p, but
> will convert it to either 480p or 1080i. Conversion would definetly be
> something that I would consider, as I'm sure I'll be watching ESPN -- and
> also playing an XBox on the TV. (Practically all of the HD games for X-Box
> are 720p.) I'm finding it to be quite difficult to know if a certain
> HDTV/monitor does this conversion, as it's not always clearly spelled out on
> the manufacturers' specs. I've sent several emails to different
> manufacturers, asking if this done for a few sets I'm considering.
>
> Now, the first question. The service-provided set-top box, do they do this
> conversion if the TV doesn't? I.e., if the TV doesn't do 720p, would be
> greated to a black screen if you switched to HD EPN? Also, are
> cable/satellite HD receivers a seperate piece of equipment -- with an input
> coming the cable/satellite box and output to the TV? I'm hoping so, as then
> perhaps the HD receiver could be used to convert the XBox's 720p to 480p or
> 1080i.
>
> In hopes to not start a heated thread, would it be more desirable to convert
> 720p to 480p or 1080i? I can see the advantages and disadvantges for both.
> (Some TV's that I have found that do this conversion convert 720p to 480p,
> while others convert to 1080i.)
>
> Please, I'm not wanting to start a 720p versus 1080i debate, as I've read
> plenty of them already now. :^) One thing I found that both camps (720p
> and 1080i) agree on is that 1080p will be most desirable. I've looked at a
> few sets that do 1080p (expensive!), but if I were to consider getting one
> I'd defintly wait until 1080p is being broadcasted and on HD-DVD (aren't
> they going to be 1080p), but most of all the price is considerably less.
> How long of wait would this be?

HD DVDs are still a year away due to defining an acceptable HD format

and copy protection scheme that 'all' can agree upon....

>
> Finally, I've been reading about D-VHS. Its kind of funny that videotapes
> are actually something to be considered again! Very cool though! I imagine
> this is just an interim solution until HD-DVD? (Or if you want to do
> recording?) D-VHS is actually something I'd consider, but for applications
> beyond HD content. As its a digital recording device, I would seriously
> consider D-VHS for the capability of backing up PC data. That would be very
> cool.
>
> There is much more involved than what I first thought there was, but I'm
> slowly getting there. I want to ensure that I'm HDTV wise before going into
> a retail store. I'm sure I'll get many half-truths from the sales-kid,
> along with the usual pitching for stupid monster cables.
>
> TIA...!
July 8, 2004 3:12:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> For both early HDTVs and less expensive HDTVs, 720p takes more
>
> electronic 'horsepower' to implement than 1080i.... so 1080i
>
> was used more often... One benefit of 720p is that it takes
>
> up less transmission band width than 1080i.
>
> As for set top boxes, (note OTA, Cable, & Dish boxes are all
> different),
>
> these boxes can receive or convert/down convert either
> manually(switch) or
>
> automatically (menu) between 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i.
>
> The better HDTV sets can receive all 4 modes... Other sets with a
>
> native preference or less tuner features can handle 3 of the
> modes.....
>
> As far as 1080p goes, 1080p60 has too much bandwidth for HDTV
> transmission,

Hi,

Thanks for the informative reply! I just received a reply earlier from my
"would-be" digital/HD cable provider and their STB does do conversion -- as
you noted above. After thinking about getting an STB myself that would
allow my own inputs to be converted, I realized that the only benefit I
would get from that would be with the X-Box, which seems pretty silly just
for a few 720p games. (I'm sure they look great at 480p anyway.)

It would be nice to get an OTA receiver to pull free local HDTV broadcast
(and perhaps even do conversion), but I was surprised to see how expensive
they are! I'm just going to go with digital cable and pay the extra
$5/month to use their STB. I'm willing to bet that these OTA receivers will
dramatically reduce in the price over the next couple years anyway, as there
is more of a consumer base with HD monitors. When they drop to $100, then
it'll be worthwhile. :^)

Thanks again. I think I'm now comfortable enough to make an informed
decision and do a purchase this weekend! Looking forward to it!
Related resources
July 8, 2004 4:30:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> What doesn't make sense, however, is why so few HDTV's support 720p?
720p requires higher frequency components than 1080i so for CRT based tv
it's more expensive
>
> Now, the first question. The service-provided set-top box, do they do
this
> conversion if the TV doesn't? I.e., if the TV doesn't do 720p, would be
> greated to a black screen if you switched to HD EPN? Also, are
> cable/satellite HD receivers a seperate piece of equipment -- with an
input
> coming the cable/satellite box and output to the TV? I'm hoping so, as
then
> perhaps the HD receiver could be used to convert the XBox's 720p to 480p
or
> 1080i.
better to set xbox for your tv's supported resolutions

!), but if I were to consider getting one
> I'd defintly wait until 1080p is being broadcasted and on HD-DVD
why wait, 1080i would be converted to 1080p and 720p could also be scaled to
1080p with no loss, as it has being converted to 1080i. Assuming of course
your talking about 1080p60 support and not 1080p24 or p30

> Finally, I've been reading about D-VHS. Its kind of funny that videotapes
> are actually something to be considered again! Very cool though! I
imagine
> this is just an interim solution until HD-DVD? (Or if you want to do
> recording?) D-VHS is actually something I'd consider, but for
applications
> beyond HD content. As its a digital recording device, I would seriously
> consider D-VHS for the capability of backing up PC data. That would be
very
> cool.

no random access like dvd or disk based backup

>
> There is much more involved than what I first thought there was, but I'm
> slowly getting there. I want to ensure that I'm HDTV wise before going
into
> a retail store. I'm sure I'll get many half-truths from the sales-kid,
> along with the usual pitching for stupid monster cables.

What I like about expensive cables is there build quality, not there signal
carrying capabilities. I like that they connect securely and wont easily
pull of while im installing other cables next to them and, if I accidentally
set a table or chair on a cable it gets much less deformed or flattened.
I've had several sets of cheap RCA cables get deformed at the connectors
after prolonged use just from the weight of the cables.
July 8, 2004 4:30:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> why wait, 1080i would be converted to 1080p and 720p could also be scaled
to
> 1080p with no loss, as it has being converted to 1080i. Assuming of
course
> your talking about 1080p60 support and not 1080p24 or p30

I'm not sure if I'm following. I can't see how it would possible for a 720p
signal to be converted to 1080i without loss? Doesn't a 720p signal carries
less information than 1080i?

> no random access like dvd or disk based backup

My thinking was that perhaps D-VHS could be used to do a blanket backups,
with no regard to "searching for files" and such. Perhaps I'm in error with
my though process, but I thought if a "blanket backup" was just 0's and 1's
streaming, then it seems possible? Garbage in, garbage out. The D-VHS
would simply just be a dumb recorder. (Do DAT tapes have random access?)
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 9, 2004 3:37:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"JamesA" <nospam@none.not> wrote in message
news:10eq4fa6rsibg0c@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi,

> What doesn't make sense, however, is why so few HDTV's support 720p?
> Practically all that I looked at as a possibile purchase support only
480i,
> 480p, and 1080i. I've read that many of these sets don't display 720p,
but
> will convert it to either 480p or 1080i. Conversion would definetly be
> something that I would consider, as I'm sure I'll be watching ESPN -- and
> also playing an XBox on the TV.

CRT based sets display 1080i, "digital" sets (LCD, Plasma, etc..) offer
720p. This is because LCD and Plasma technology is progressive scan by
design. The differences between 720p and 1080i are hard for the human eye to
detect. Also almost all networks doing HD, broadcast in 1080i. The
exceptions are ABC and ESPN HD. Everyone else (here's the list): INHD,
INHD2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT HD, Bravo HD, NBC, CBS, WB, UPN, PBS,
Showtime HD, HBO HD, is doing 1080i. Also a broadcaster doesn't switch from
one to the other they have either adopted 720p or 1080i. So if you have a
720p set you're going to be watching most of your HD content converted from
it's source format. Again, this is no big deal as one is just as good as the
other really. Yes technically 720p handles motion a little better, but how
much of that can be detected by the human eye is questionable. Go to the
home theater store and LET YOUR EYES BE THE JUDGE compare 720p displays to
1080i displays (find someone shows the same content on both).

If it's native format is 1080i make sure it can also take 720p. If it's
native format is 720p make sure the set can also accept 1080i and you'll be
just fine.


(Practically all of the HD games for X-Box
> are 720p.) I'm finding it to be quite difficult to know if a certain
> HDTV/monitor does this conversion, as it's not always clearly spelled out
on
> the manufacturers' specs. I've sent several emails to different
> manufacturers, asking if this done for a few sets I'm considering.

If in doubt, don't by the set. Call their tech support, if no one there can
tell you this should be a clue not to lay down $1500+ on their product.
Don't trust sales staff at places like BestBuy, Circut City and Sears...If
you're buying from a home theater store you can usually trust the salesman
to at least understand these sorts of things, but doing your own research is
always best.


>
> Now, the first question. The service-provided set-top box, do they do
this
> conversion if the TV doesn't? I.e., if the TV doesn't do 720p, would be
> greated to a black screen if you switched to HD EPN?

To my knowledge all do the conversion inside the box for you. All DirectTV,
Dish Network, VOOM, and cable provider HD boxes most certinally will (if too
much of a hassel for them to inventory different boxes for different types
of sets, etc..).

> Also, are
> cable/satellite HD receivers a seperate piece of equipment -- with an
input
> coming the cable/satellite box and output to the TV? I'm hoping so, as
then
> perhaps the HD receiver could be used to convert the XBox's 720p to 480p
or
> 1080i.
>

No, actually I don't know of any boxes that perform the 720p/1080i
conversion for extenral sources like this. You'll want to make sure the HDTV
you buy supports the conversion inside (if needed).


> In hopes to not start a heated thread, would it be more desirable to
convert
> 720p to 480p or 1080i? I can see the advantages and disadvantges for
both.
> (Some TV's that I have found that do this conversion convert 720p to 480p,
> while others convert to 1080i.)
>

480p is not HDTV. It's been acknowledged by some as "EDTV" or Ehanced
Definition. If you buy a Plasama that supports 480p native and downcoverts
720p/1080i then you need to understand you are not buying an HDTV. I feel
sad for anyone who buys an "EDTV" thinking they are getting HD qaulity, they
aren't.

Here are the resolution differences:
480p = 704x480 = 337920 pixels
720p = 1280x720 = 921600 pixels
1080i = 1920x1080 = 2073600 pixels
(for 1080i divide in half to account for interlacing and it equals 1036800
pixels per frame)

HD formats 720p and 1080i are about 3x the quality of "EDTV"/480p.

..

> Please, I'm not wanting to start a 720p versus 1080i debate, as I've read
> plenty of them already now. :^) One thing I found that both camps (720p
> and 1080i) agree on is that 1080p will be most desirable. I've looked at
a
> few sets that do 1080p (expensive!), but if I were to consider getting one
> I'd defintly wait until 1080p is being broadcasted and on HD-DVD (aren't
> they going to be 1080p), but most of all the price is considerably less.
> How long of wait would this be?

1080p will probably never be broadcasted. OTA it's not going to happen with
the FCC mandated 8VSB (not that it would happen with competiting standards
either), Cable and sat providers will be wiser to use this bandwidth to
squeeze in more 1080i or 720p channels than to wast it on 1080p.

HD-DVD will most probably support 1080p so if you want to hold out for this,
that's fine. I don't think HD-DVD is going to be viable for a very long
time, that's another thead.

>
> Finally, I've been reading about D-VHS. Its kind of funny that videotapes
> are actually something to be considered again! Very cool though! I
imagine
> this is just an interim solution until HD-DVD? (Or if you want to do
> recording?) D-VHS is actually something I'd consider, but for
applications
> beyond HD content. As its a digital recording device, I would seriously
> consider D-VHS for the capability of backing up PC data. That would be
very
> cool.
>

Ok, D-VHS has been a pretty big failure actually. Some more time really has
to pass before that verdict can be handed down and I think the industry has
noted. This is why HD-DVD will take it's sweet time coming to market, we are
on the way there. I wouldn't be so quick to assume the the majority of
HD-DVD players will be read only, it's very possible that the industry will
adopt a standard so that all HD-DVD players offer recording capabilities,
copyright control will be enforced though.


> There is much more involved than what I first thought there was, but I'm
> slowly getting there. I want to ensure that I'm HDTV wise before going
into
> a retail store. I'm sure I'll get many half-truths from the sales-kid,
> along with the usual pitching for stupid monster cables.
>
> TIA...!
>

Good luck. The knowledge is out there. Here's a site I put up, maybe you'll
find something useful there:
http://hdtv.0catch.com Click "cancel" if prompted to install Gator or any
other software, the host provider puts these lame ads in place I have no
control over.
July 9, 2004 4:07:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> CRT based sets display 1080i, "digital" sets (LCD, Plasma, etc..) offer
> 720p. This is because LCD and Plasma technology is progressive scan by
> design. The differences between 720p and 1080i are hard for the human eye
to
> detect. Also almost all networks doing HD, broadcast in 1080i. The
> exceptions are ABC and ESPN HD. Everyone else (here's the list): INHD,
> INHD2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT HD, Bravo HD, NBC, CBS, WB, UPN, PBS,
> Showtime HD, HBO HD, is doing 1080i. Also a broadcaster doesn't switch
from
> one to the other they have either adopted 720p or 1080i. So if you have a
> 720p set you're going to be watching most of your HD content converted
from
> it's source format. Again, this is no big deal as one is just as good as
the
> other really. Yes technically 720p handles motion a little better, but how
> much of that can be detected by the human eye is questionable. Go to the
> home theater store and LET YOUR EYES BE THE JUDGE compare 720p displays to
> 1080i displays (find someone shows the same content on both).
>
> If it's native format is 1080i make sure it can also take 720p. If it's
> native format is 720p make sure the set can also accept 1080i and you'll
be
> just fine.
>
> If in doubt, don't by the set. Call their tech support, if no one there
can
> tell you this should be a clue not to lay down $1500+ on their product.
> Don't trust sales staff at places like BestBuy, Circut City and Sears...If
> you're buying from a home theater store you can usually trust the salesman
> to at least understand these sorts of things, but doing your own research
is
> always best.
>
> To my knowledge all do the conversion inside the box for you. All
DirectTV,
> Dish Network, VOOM, and cable provider HD boxes most certinally will (if
too
> much of a hassel for them to inventory different boxes for different types
> of sets, etc..).
>
> No, actually I don't know of any boxes that perform the 720p/1080i
> conversion for extenral sources like this. You'll want to make sure the
HDTV
> you buy supports the conversion inside (if needed).
>
> 480p is not HDTV. It's been acknowledged by some as "EDTV" or Ehanced
> Definition. If you buy a Plasama that supports 480p native and downcoverts
> 720p/1080i then you need to understand you are not buying an HDTV. I feel
> sad for anyone who buys an "EDTV" thinking they are getting HD qaulity,
they
> aren't.
>
> Here are the resolution differences:
> 480p = 704x480 = 337920 pixels
> 720p = 1280x720 = 921600 pixels
> 1080i = 1920x1080 = 2073600 pixels
> (for 1080i divide in half to account for interlacing and it equals 1036800
> pixels per frame)
>
> HD formats 720p and 1080i are about 3x the quality of "EDTV"/480p.
>
> 1080p will probably never be broadcasted. OTA it's not going to happen
with
> the FCC mandated 8VSB (not that it would happen with competiting standards
> either), Cable and sat providers will be wiser to use this bandwidth to
> squeeze in more 1080i or 720p channels than to wast it on 1080p.
>
> HD-DVD will most probably support 1080p so if you want to hold out for
this,
> that's fine. I don't think HD-DVD is going to be viable for a very long
> time, that's another thead.
>
> Ok, D-VHS has been a pretty big failure actually. Some more time really
has
> to pass before that verdict can be handed down and I think the industry
has
> noted. This is why HD-DVD will take it's sweet time coming to market, we
are
> on the way there. I wouldn't be so quick to assume the the majority of
> HD-DVD players will be read only, it's very possible that the industry
will
> adopt a standard so that all HD-DVD players offer recording capabilities,
> copyright control will be enforced though.
>
> Good luck. The knowledge is out there. Here's a site I put up, maybe
you'll
> find something useful there:
> http://hdtv.0catch.com Click "cancel" if prompted to install Gator or any
> other software, the host provider puts these lame ads in place I have no
> control over.

Hi,

I would like to sincerely thank you for taking the time to make such an
informative reply! It definetly has helped clear up some of the confusion,
and is most appreciated! In fact, I saved a copy of your reply for future
reference. (I have a directory filling up with HDTV reference information
now.) :^)

I think that perhaps I'm starting to read "too far into it" and should now
do just as you say, go see them for myself and allow the eyeballs to
contribute to the final decision. (I'm also with you on taking heeded
caution with Best Buy, Circuit City, Sears, etc.)

I just got a reply from a manufacturer that one of the HDTV's I had on the
top of my list does convert 720p to 1080i, which I found to be very
encouraging.

Planning on seeing the displays saturday.

Thanks again!
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 9, 2004 4:16:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <4VkHc.23518$W6.11775@fe2.texas.rr.com>,
"Jeremy Deats'" <jeremy@nospam.com> writes:
>
> 1080p will probably never be broadcasted. OTA it's not going to happen with
> the FCC mandated 8VSB (not that it would happen with competiting standards
>
Note that 1080p24 is quite within the ATSC standards, and provides all of
the spatial and temporal detail available for film based material (as
good as or better than 1080i30 (30fps) or 1080p60 (60fps) transmission
formats.)

It is often forgotten that ATSC DOES FULLY SUPPORT 1080p24. I agree that
it will unlikely be used, mostly because of the needed mode switching for
commercials an 60Hz interlaced material.

John
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
July 9, 2004 8:17:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"JamesA" <nospam@none.not> wrote in message
news:10eq4fa6rsibg0c@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "HD Monitors", of course, don't have built-in tuners. I've come across
> posts on the web that criticize HD Monitors as being "fake-HDTVs", but if
> one the objectives of manufactures offering these monitors is to attract
the
> average consumer (thats me), then that makes perfect sense. I'm not
> interested in HDTV over-the-air broadcast. I plan on subscribing to HD
> cable service. I also already have a 480p DVD player. (I know 480p isn't
> HD.)

Also, progressive-scan output doesn't really do any good unless you have a
progressive-scan display.

> I can't see a reason to get a HDTV monitor with built-in tuner, as the
> tuner would get little use -- and may even be obsolete in a couple years.

Probably won't be obsolete so long as it has the newer cable compatibility
(or a card slot for that upgrade). The idea behind this is that we could go
back to the way things were with analog cable: your TV/VCR etc. would be
able to receive both over-the-air broadcast and cable without needing a
separate box. (It's probably too much to expect it to support satellite
though.) That's something that went away with the advent of digital cable
and satellite.

> What doesn't make sense, however, is why so few HDTV's support 720p?

It's cheaper to build CRT sets (direct-view or rear-projection) for 1080i
than 720p. And it seems the majority of networks are using 1080i, so it
makes sense for the sets to natively support the most popular format. And

Most sets and set-top boxes should convert from one to the other, but make
sure before buying.

> In hopes to not start a heated thread, would it be more desirable to
convert
> 720p to 480p or 1080i? I can see the advantages and disadvantges for
both.
> (Some TV's that I have found that do this conversion convert 720p to 480p,
> while others convert to 1080i.)

I expect 720p converted to 1080i would produce a better result than
converting to 480p.

Generally, the conversion between HD formats produces a good result, and you
may barely be aware of what the actual source is (so long as it is one of
the two main HD formats). While overall the best result probaby comes with
using a native format, there are also advantages to converting from a higher
resolution down compared to the other way around, especially considering
that color is encoded at 1/2 the resolution in each direction as the
grayscale image, so even on a lower-resolution set, you should be able to
see the increased color resolution.

> Please, I'm not wanting to start a 720p versus 1080i debate, as I've read
> plenty of them already now. :^) One thing I found that both camps (720p
> and 1080i) agree on is that 1080p will be most desirable. I've looked at
a
> few sets that do 1080p (expensive!), but if I were to consider getting one
> I'd defintly wait until 1080p is being broadcasted and on HD-DVD (aren't
> they going to be 1080p), but most of all the price is considerably less.
> How long of wait would this be?

Probably a very long time. I really don't know what format HD DVD will end
up being in most of the time -- 1080p24 would be the most desirable of
course, but who knows (and who knows if HD-DVD or Blu Ray will be
predominant, or both.) There is no 1080p60 defined, so that won't be used
for a very long time. Even 1080p24 probaby won't show up on any kind of
broadcast HDTV for quite a while, though it would make sense for
movie-oriented channels to consider it.
!