Vista Cool and Quiet support gone...

[Hemi]

Vista Cool and Quiet support gone for anything other than the most recent products? What is up with this???

Vista and Cool 'n Quiet co-existed with RC2 on my board, A8R32-MVP Deluxe, and my friends A8N32-SLI Deluxe (both socket 939 boards). But in the RTM version of Vista, CnQ no longer works. AMD has stated they don't need to release a driver for it to work since it's built into Vista.

Obviously MS changed something but is pointing the finger at AMD and the motherboard manufacturers to fix it.

Could this be a handout from MS to AMD and the motherboard manufacturers to drive sales for their AM2-based products?

Or maybe there was some stability issue that some folks encountered with CnQ in RC2 so MS fixed it in the RTM version which caused it to break on certain systems. But don't you think Asus and other manuf. have the obligation to update their BIOS to comply... especially if those products are still being sold?

 

[Assman]

But in the RTM version of Vista, CnQ no longer works. AMD has stated they don't need to release a driver for it to work since it's built into Vista.

try retail, it has 1500 more drivers than rtm (announced in nov.)

*note: rtm and retail have the same build num., but retail like i said has more drivers built-in.

 

[RoskO]

Yeah, this is getting rediculous. If it's MS fault, then they need to fix it asap. There's just no excuse, c&q should work without having to double check it. Also, asus...nvidia....GET OFF YOUR ARSE and build some good vista drivers, 32 and 64 bit. The betas and RC editions have been out forever, there's absolutely no excuse. Razor mice too.....where's your vista support?

I guess if they don't want to support their products, they'll lose my business altogether. My Hauppuage card, and sound blaster card have drivers that work great. Both of those companies, to my knowledge, have no where near the financial backing that nvidia and asus do.

They think we can't see through the BS?

Oh BTW, I'm running retail vista ultimate edition.

Edit: For those of you that think c&q isn't important, don't even bother replying. I run my system in a desk, door shut, and it's very important. It's a simple formula for silence, if c&q doesn't work, my raptors and cpu heat up the system too much together, and I need to open my door. When I open my door, I hear my raptors. When I hear my raptors....I get angry and find the cause of the problem. I'm not the only one frustrated with this issue....google it.

 

[SEALBoy]

Are you sure you aren't running your PC in Always On power mode? Cuz my Athlon 64 X2 3800 ran at half speed when not being taxed until I switched my PC to Always On. This is under Vista Ultimate.

 

[choirbass]

yeah... i do the same with my tower, have it underneath my desk with a door closed in front of it because of the noise, numerous raptors operating too, with about 8 fans, running vista rtm... a temporary (or permanent) alternative to CnQ that you have more control over than CnQ offers, is to use "Rightmarks CPU Clock Utility"... im using it myself, but, whats useful, is you can individually change voltages and multipliers for different operating modes, which you can configure individually too, a bunch of other settings too... i just have my X2 running at stock speed (2.0GHz), but undervolted as well (1.125v), temperatures are kept down a decent amount then (~43 idle ~50+ load)

 

[RoskO]

I'll double check the power management settings in Vista, but from what I could tell, nothing changed when I saved new settings. I tried going to power saver mode, and going through the advanced settings, but it still runs full boogy 2.6ghz.

 

[RoskO]

Interesting turn of events to fix the issue.

I read on another forum that a guy had installed an older bios (1 rev back) on my A8N32-SLI. Luckily I had my old raptor with XP on it. I booted off the asus flash cd....flashed with the original version of the bios. Booted to XP to flash the system to the 2nd to newest bios, and what do ya know, power management and c&q work fine in vista.

The reason I had to boot to xp was because I don't have a floppy to flash the stupid system, and asus didn't build a util for vista to flash the bios through the os. What great support from these vendors we blow so much money on.

Another issue......in media center on vista, nvidia's driver crashes every so often. I tried the RTM driver from MS, the nvidia driver, and the latest beta from nvidia. All of the suck horribly, and crash in media center. I got it to be semi stable with a codec pack, but it still bombs every once in a while. Vista notifies me that the video driver has failed and recovered successfully.

I'm starting to wonder if nvidia even tests their drivers before releasing to the wild. People use media center all of the time....

 

[Zorg]

Interesting turn of events to fix the issue.

I read on another forum that a guy had installed an older bios (1 rev back) on my A8N32-SLI. Luckily I had my old raptor with XP on it. I booted off the asus flash cd....flashed with the original version of the bios. Booted to XP to flash the system to the 2nd to newest bios, and what do ya know, power management and c&q work fine in vista.

The reason I had to boot to xp was because I don't have a floppy to flash the stupid system, and asus didn't build a util for vista to flash the bios through the os. What great support from these vendors we blow so much money on.

Another issue......in media center on vista, nvidia's driver crashes every so often. I tried the RTM driver from MS, the nvidia driver, and the latest beta from nvidia. All of the suck horribly, and crash in media center. I got it to be semi stable with a codec pack, but it still bombs every once in a while. Vista notifies me that the video driver has failed and recovered successfully.

I'm starting to wonder if nvidia even tests their drivers before releasing to the wild. People use media center all of the time....

Yeah, it's funny isn't it. It seems that a lot of hardware manufactures are having problems supporting Vista. Hey wait, what's the common thread here? VISTA that's what. Maybe you are blaming the wrong companies? Just something to think about.

 

[RoskO]

Maybe you failed to read my full post(s). There's plenty of support and drivers from smaller companies like creative labs and wintv(Haup), so why can't nvidia and asus keep up? You think that the problem is with MS? You sound like someone traveling down the path of "buy a fruity Mac or linux box....luse ur windoze M$ POS" blah blah.

Give me a break, grow up, and realize that Microsoft is here to stay and creates great products. So far, I haven't had any issues with vista itself....no stability issues with the OS, All of the programs run great that are boxed with ultimate (when not hindered by shitty drivers from third parties). The only issues so far are those listed above, and require third party intervention. I paid $180+ for my motherboard, $400+ for my 7800GTX, and it was pushed by asus as "the best" they had ever built, and Nvidia at the time. I think I should receive updates and support don't you? These products have been purchased less than a year ago too...And how bout Nvidia. Go read about how terrible their driver support is for vista. Again, I'm NOT the only one complaining about these issues. I'm just choosing to complain loudly here.

Also Zorg, if you have ever been in software development then you'd know where I'm coming from. Microsoft gave the developers the means to create drivers, and plenty of time to do so. There's zero excuse for companies of this size to ignore what they have sold and built. After all, their bread and butter is Microsoft, and supporting MS customers. Marketing only sells the product, you still have to make it work.

 

[Zorg]

Maybe you failed to read my full post(s). There's plenty of support and drivers from smaller companies like creative labs and wintv(Haup), so why can't nvidia and asus keep up? You think that the problem is with MS? You sound like someone traveling down the path of "buy a fruity Mac or linux box....luse ur windoze M$ POS" blah blah.

Give me a break, grow up, and realize that Microsoft is here to stay and creates great products. So far, I haven't had any issues with vista itself....no stability issues with the OS, All of the programs run great that are boxed with ultimate (when not hindered by shitty drivers from third parties). The only issues so far are those listed above, and require third party intervention. I paid $180+ for my motherboard, $400+ for my 7800GTX, and it was pushed by asus as "the best" they had ever built, and Nvidia at the time. I think I should receive updates and support don't you? These products have been purchased less than a year ago too...And how bout Nvidia. Go read about how terrible their driver support is for vista. Again, I'm NOT the only one complaining about these issues. I'm just choosing to complain loudly here.

Also Zorg, if you have ever been in software development then you'd know where I'm coming from. Microsoft gave the developers the means to create drivers, and plenty of time to do so. There's zero excuse for companies of this size to ignore what they have sold and built. After all, their bread and butter is Microsoft, and supporting MS customers. Marketing only sells the product, you still have to make it work.

I hate to say this, but have you read the link at the top of my sig. Have you read anything about the hardware and driver hell that the video card manufacturers are going through in order to be HDCP compliant? I think not. Read the link. And let me know what you think.

 

[RoskO]

Once again, people like you just don't get it. Does it do any good to complain about it? Does it do any good to say "you made my job harder so I quit". I highly doubt these excuses will last much longer. Harder or not, in a few months all of this will be a thing of the past, people can either shit or get off the pot. If you want to make money selling video cards, sound cards, motherboards, then you might as well expect to support Microsoft. Can you argue with that?

 

[Zorg]

Once again, people like you just don't get it. Does it do any good to complain about it? Does it do any good to say "you made my job harder so I quit". I highly doubt these excuses will last much longer. Harder or not, in a few months all of this will be a thing of the past, people can either **** or get off the pot. If you want to make money selling video cards, sound cards, motherboards, then you might as well expect to support Microsoft. Can you argue with that?

I'm quite certain that they are busting their collective a$$es trying to get their cards released (r600 etc.) and drivers stable because that is how they make their money. And really, do you think they want to hear all the whining. I'm just saying that if people want to whine and complain then they should direct it at the company that is responsible for screwing it up, not the companies that are attempting to comply, with all the BS, because they aren't doing it fast enough. I agree with you, the hardware manufacturers will comply, they have no choice. As for me I'm going to ride the XP train to the last stop. It's funny, early adopters always complain when everything isn't perfect right out of the box, when they all already know that it never is. This is especially true of Vista because of the massive driver re-writes due to the necessity to be HDCP compliant and, from what I understand, the limited access to the kernel. So hang on, ATI and Nvidia will get the drivers straight, just as soon as they get them approved by the MPAA.

 

[RoskO]

I know they will get it right....I just want it to be now, and felt like venting. I also fear that us s939 owners are going to be forced to upgrade to an AM2 or some other BS, simply because they don't feel like updating their bios to work with vista. My 939 runs as good if not better than some AM2 systems, so I sure as hell don't need DDR2 and the new socket just to "be vista certified".

A buddy of mine just read on newegg....another user review warning people not to buy a 939 board and vista, as the mobo manufacturer doesn't want to support it (yet). It's crazy to me that they are selling this stuff, still current on newegg and other sites, brand new, and appear to not support it with vista? Seems to me like any new PC being built would run vista. I was just in compusa, best buy, and circuit city. I only found 2 systems left (display systems open boxed) that are available with XP anymore. Everything is vista now.

Pretty crazy .....I really hope they wake up sooner than later.

 

[russki]

I hate to say this, but have you read the link at the top of my sig. Have you read anything about the hardware and driver hell that the video card manufacturers are going through in order to be HDCP compliant? I think not. Read the link. And let me know what you think.

Zorg, I hate to say this, but have you bothered to read any of the responses to the article, or even the article itself? As for the latter (to take things out of order), it is extremely biased, as for the former, they expose the said article as, if not outright lies, statements that manage to present only porions of the story so as to make MS look bad. It is just said that you read that as gospel. By the way, the funniest thing is that half the contents of the article discuss features already present in XP...

And, the bigget point of all, is that MS's DRM just place the decision in the hands of the content creators, so if you think that you've been wronged, you're actually barking at the wrong tree...

 

[Zorg]

Zorg, I hate to say this, but have you bothered to read any of the responses to the article, or even the article itself? As for the latter (to take things out of order), it is extremely biased, as for the former, they expose the said article as, if not outright lies, statements that manage to present only portions of the story so as to make MS look bad. It is just said that you read that as gospel. By the way, the funniest thing is that half the contents of the article discuss features already present in XP...

And, the biggest point of all, is that MS's DRM just place the decision in the hands of the content creators, so if you think that you've been wronged, you're actually barking at the wrong tree...

Could you quote me a response that shows any outright lies or anything close to outright lies? I am curious. Also, Who are they, M$? As for the article being biased, of course it's biased against M$. The question is, what about it is false. All Gutmann is doing is exposing the "economic" costs associated with Vista's implementation of HDCP, so that is all that he addresses. If you want to marvel about Aeroglass and desktop widgets go read some fluff article and feel good. If you go to M$ site they have the 20 questions and answers. It is a weak rebuttal at best. Read the posts below the Q&A and see what "they" think.

Windows Vista Team Blog : Windows Vista Content Protection - Twenty Questions (and Answers)
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx

And the biggest point of all is that M$ DRM HDCP screws the entire computer industry, so I am placing blame where it belongs. M$ didn't have to implement HDCP, they wanted to.

 

[russki]

Zorg, I hate to say this, but have you bothered to read any of the responses to the article, or even the article itself? As for the latter (to take things out of order), it is extremely biased, as for the former, they expose the said article as, if not outright lies, statements that manage to present only portions of the story so as to make MS look bad. It is just said that you read that as gospel. By the way, the funniest thing is that half the contents of the article discuss features already present in XP...

And, the biggest point of all, is that MS's DRM just place the decision in the hands of the content creators, so if you think that you've been wronged, you're actually barking at the wrong tree...

Could you quote me a response that shows any outright lies or anything close to outright lies? I am curious. Also, Who are they, M$? As for the article being biased, of course it's biased against M$. The question is, what about it is false. All Gutmann is doing is exposing the "economic" costs associated with Vista's implementation of HDCP, so that is all that he addresses. If you want to marvel about Aeroglass and desktop widgets go read some fluff article and feel good. If you go to M$ site they have the 20 questions and answers. It is a weak rebuttal at best. Read the posts below the Q&A and see what "they" think.

Windows Vista Team Blog : Windows Vista Content Protection - Twenty Questions (and Answers)
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx

And the biggest point of all is that M$ DRM HDCP screws the entire computer industry, so I am placing blame where it belongs. M$ didn't have to implement HDCP, they wanted to.

You make a ridiculous point. [as a sidenote, I really don't have time right now to provide you with links, but I'll try to remember to do it at my leisure...]. If they didn't implement DRM and by that prevented HD DVD and Blue Ray altogether, how long do you think HTPC would remain viable? Entertainment notebooks (a huge segment of that market)? You are being retarded, either deliberately or because you don't know any better. MS does not SET the standards, they simply COMPLY with the standards. Talk to RIAA and Co. I am game for MS bashing, I love it as a sport, and don't particularly like the company. But at least do it with good arguments. All you're doing is spreading misinformation.

Besides, who ever mentioned Aero?! If I were to say something pro-Vista I'd be 1) re-written safer modular kernel - long overdue and a huge step in the right direction; 2) rewritten driver model (relates to 1, really); 3) rewritten network stack that is, by all accounts, much more efficient; 4) indexed search; etc. Things of that nature. Interface is just that. Although noone wants an ugly OS shell. Otherwise people would still be luckily typing away in the unix command line shell.

 

[Zorg]

[
You make a ridiculous point. [as a sidenote, I really don't have time right now to provide you with links, but I'll try to remember to do it at my leisure...]. If they didn't implement DRM and by that prevented HD DVD and Blue Ray altogether, how long do you think HTPC would remain viable? Entertainment notebooks (a huge segment of that market)? You are being retarded, either deliberately or because you don't know any better. MS does not SET the standards, they simply COMPLY with the standards. Talk to RIAA and Co. I am game for MS bashing, I love it as a sport, and don't particularly like the company. But at least do it with good arguments. All you're doing is spreading misinformation.

Besides, who ever mentioned Aero?! If I were to say something pro-Vista I'd be 1) re-written safer modular kernel - long overdue and a huge step in the right direction; 2) rewritten driver model (relates to 1, really); 3) rewritten network stack that is, by all accounts, much more efficient; 4) indexed search; etc. Things of that nature. Interface is just that. Although noone wants an ugly OS shell. Otherwise people would still be luckily typing away in the unix command line shell.

First, HDCP has already been rendered not viable due to the fact that it has already been cracked, apparently by someone whose HDCP compliant hardware wouldn't allow them to view HDCP content. Wow, that whole HDCP scheme really lasted a long time before it was rendered useless. Second, so what you are saying is that M$ somehow had some kind of moral obligation to carry the HDCP torch so that HD-DVD and BlueRay could succeed? You are either stupid, a Microsoft shill, or so high that I fear you may never come down. It is a cold world out there and M$ didn't implement HDCP to help anyone but themselves. You actually think they give a rats a$$ about Sony or anyone in the BlueRay consortium or any consortium. You need to get out more, you are as naive as a four year old. It's all about money. If M$ is involved in anything, other than charity, then they are in it for the money and control that their participation affords them. Anyone that thinks otherwise is truly simple. I appreciate all the great security enhancements that have been added to vista (you must have been reading M$ marketing releases) but I would like you to consider this excerpt from the article in my signature, that you supposedly read.

[BEGIN EXCERPT]
On-board graphics create an additional problem in that blocks of precious content will end up stored in system memory, from where they could be paged to disk. In order to avoid this, Vista tags such pages with a special protection bit indicating that they need to be encrypted before being paged out and decrypted again after being paged in. Vista doesn't provide any other pagefile encryption, and will quite happily page banking PINs, credit card details, private, personal data, and other sensitive information, in plaintext. The content-protection requirements make it fairly clear that in Microsoft's eyes a frame of premium content is worth more than (say) a user's medical records or their banking PIN [END EXCERPT]

Thank God for Vista's enhanced security. HaHaHa. Get a clue.

 

[russki]

First off, I'm getting tired of this argument. Either you have made up your mind and nothing will convince you, or you simply lack the ability to comprehend.

Again, MS had to implement DRM to allow playback of protected content. A simple English language analogy - MS is the object, not the subject. Still tough? Here's the logical chain, hope you can follow. Want to be an OS of choice for entertainment PCs => Have to be able to play next gen formats. Since next gen formats require for DRM to be implemented or else you can not play them => must implement DRM. It's really not that difficult. If you notice, implementing DRM is a corollary, and not the premise to being with, which is what you (and Mr. Gutmann) try to purport it to be.

And here is the kicker that disproves all your silly talk. By your logic, MS would force DRM down users' throats no matter what. That is simply not the case. MS has implemented a framework to allow the content creator to force DRM. If the content creator does not wish for that to be the case, MS will allow them to circumvent DRM protocols, again, in contradiction to your premise. Like I said, if you have a problem with anyone, have a problem with RIAA or MPAA. Or Blue-ray consortium, or HD-DVD consortium.

I really can not comment on the excerpt re: paging - I would imagine this, admittedly, somewhat unusual implementation had something to do with requirements imposed on the protected content by content providers. But I really don't know. Suffice it to say that it has really nothing to do with security.

Again, can you read? Security features are the finally modularized OS (by the way the processors were designed for such hierarchical system structure since the days of 386 and the introduction of protected mode, but you wouldn't know anything about that, I'd guess), and other features. Paging memory does not constitute a security breach. I mean, it was in your memory to begin with so if you think somebody can access the file you got to think they would be able to access the memory (if you implement it with the right kind of permissions, but again, I seriously suspect this is over your head).

Finally, I promised you an example of a misleading statement / a lie in Gutmann's article, and, as somebody pointed out, his rant about SACDs presents one. His text implies that Vista prevents SACD playback. In fact, Sony does not license the technology for PC use. Which means that there is no PC (Linux, Mac, WinXP, anything) that could play it. That's the kind of misinformation his article is filled with. Half the time he fails to point out that the features he is discussing are already present in XP, and 99.9% of his audience, that he is trying to convince that Vista is downright evil are XP users. Which means that by their logic, they have been subjecting themselves to the same kind of evil they purport to avoid by not switching to Vista all along in the first place.

Like I said, if you're going to have arguments, have arguments, not FUD.

 

[bourgeoisdude]

Vista Cool and Quiet support gone for anything other than the most recent products? What is up with this???

Vista and Cool 'n Quiet co-existed with RC2 on my board, A8R32-MVP Deluxe, and my friends A8N32-SLI Deluxe (both socket 939 boards). But in the RTM version of Vista, CnQ no longer works. AMD has stated they don't need to release a driver for it to work since it's built into Vista.

Obviously MS changed something but is pointing the finger at AMD and the motherboard manufacturers to fix it.

Could this be a handout from MS to AMD and the motherboard manufacturers to drive sales for their AM2-based products?

Or maybe there was some stability issue that some folks encountered with CnQ in RC2 so MS fixed it in the RTM version which caused it to break on certain systems. But don't you think Asus and other manuf. have the obligation to update their BIOS to comply... especially if those products are still being sold?

Mine works fine, dude. Vista Ultimate on a secondary hdd (boot menu between vista and XP), see sig. below for my specs.

To Russki: Awesome comments about DRM arguments, 100% true as well.

 

[Zorg]

I check and it appears that SACD is not licensed for PC. That certainly does not invalidate the rest of the article. I believe that he was trying to illustrate how outputs need to be shut down to protect the analog hole. I never said that M$ is forcing protected content down the user's throat. What I am saying is that they are forcing the "framework" down our throat. I, and many other users, don't want to play protected content but we are still saddled with all of the overhead required to do so. You would not hear anything from me if there was a version of Vista available that didn't have all of the additional bloat required for HDCP. Alas, I don't think there ever will be. Do you have anything in any areas concerning the following headings?

Elimination of Open-source Hardware Support
Elimination of Unified Drivers
Denial-of-Service via Driver/Device Revocation
Decreased System Reliability
Increased Hardware Costs
Increased Cost due to Requirement to License Unnecessary Third-party IP
Unnecessary CPU Resource Consumption
Unnecessary Device Resource Consumption

It would mean considerably more to me than whether SACD would be playable because that doesn't affect me or the average user at all. If you have any data that would indicate that there were lies in these sections, then I would like to know. And I promise to do diligence with any information that you present me. I'm not anti M$, I like XP for the most part, I just haven't seen anything to refute the substantive claims made in the article. As a matter of fact I have seen the effects already in the video card and driver deployment.

 

[Zorg]

So were you able to Google anything with regards to these other areas of the article. I haven't seen anything so I guess the counter arguments don't exist.

 

[RoskO]

Zorg, would you guys please take your argument to the appropriate (new) thread, it doesn't really belong in this anymore.

An update on the c&q issue, I did get it working as I stated above, with a derev of the bios back one level. I finally got the media center working well too, turned out to be the nvidia driver. I used the beta driver they have out now which isn't great, but works with a different codec pack I downloaded from the great wonder that is the www.

All is cool n quiet now, running vista with no complaints other than those listed above. Nvidia and asus won't get my money again, I'll be buying an R600 soon.

Current specs

X2 4600+ @ 2.64ghz
Corsair 5500 @ DDR500 1T
150gb Raptor Mirror on nvraid
500gb WD Mirror on nvraid
7800gtx ACS3
SB Audigy ZS

I can shut my desk now, and the cpu fan goes between 1000rpm and 2000rpm, very quiet now, even running Media center while web deving.

 

[russki]

As I've stated, I'm done with that silly DRM argument and sorry it hijacked the thread...

I wouldn't write off Nv or Asus for poor driver support for a new system. Although, I did do the same with Abit when XP came out and I was left out without a compatible driver for a new (!) mobo. The point is, driver support is typically poor for a little while when new OS's come out, so...Still, the two companies make very decent products. Sorry for your troubles though.

 

[Zorg]

Zorg, would you guys please take your argument to the appropriate (new) thread, it doesn't really belong in this anymore.

An update on the c&q issue, I did get it working as I stated above, with a derev of the bios back one level. I finally got the media center working well too, turned out to be the nvidia driver. I used the beta driver they have out now which isn't great, but works with a different codec pack I downloaded from the great wonder that is the www.

All is cool n quiet now, running vista with no complaints other than those listed above. Nvidia and asus won't get my money again, I'll be buying an R600 soon.

Current specs

X2 4600+ @ 2.64ghz
Corsair 5500 @ DDR500 1T
150gb Raptor Mirror on nvraid
500gb WD Mirror on nvraid
7800gtx ACS3
SB Audigy ZS

I can shut my desk now, and the cpu fan goes between 1000rpm and 2000rpm, very quiet now, even running Media center while web deving.

Sorry for the hijack, I was just responding to posters complaining about drivers not being ready for Vista. When IMO they have a lot of additional work to get them ready.

 

[RoskO]

You know what, I have no problem with drivers taking a while if the OS was new to nvidia or asus, but the fact remains, they had their hands on the betas for over a year.

NO EXCUSE.....This is the longest beta Microsoft has ever had, there is just no excuse for these select companies to fail to produce drivers that support their products efficiently, when other companies with less resources can product superior drivers on or before the release of vista.

A good example, why do ATI's drivers run games nearly at the same frame rate on vista as it does in XP, yet Nvidia drivers render their cards nearly useless in games on vista? Not to mention the Nvidia driver issues with SLI, and the fact that they weren't even out until after the vista retail launch. Give me a Fukin break.