Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Sony SAT-HD300 video problem

Last response: in Home Theatre
Share
Anonymous
July 12, 2004 12:35:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
a strange video glitch:

After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
(5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.

A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
set and viewing DirecTV stations.

The effect felt enough like an NTSC color encoder problem (something drifts
and is then reset?) that I decided to look at the Y component of the component
output (running 480i of course) as a mono signal. It does not display the
distortion and does not experience the "glitch" when switching stations
(after first confirming that the guide text is in the distorted state by
looking at the composite output). To pursue this further I fed the component
outputs through a transcoding TBC and viewed the composite output. Now I had
color and again there was no distortion and no glitch on switching stations.
(There was some general picture instability which makes me wonder about the
HD300's overall system timing--the TBC is usually pretty tolerant.) Of course
that didn't really prove anything since the TBC could have been covering up
the problem. So I switched to the TBC's composite input (and the HD300's
composite output) and again was able to see the glitch on switching stations
with the guide text in the distorted state. The glitch looked a bit different
(presumably the TBS's input reacts somewhat differently from the XBR100's) but
it was definitely there. Still not conclusive, but it certainly seems like an
encoder problem.

If anyone is still reading at this point and has an HD300 to play with I'd
really appreciate any data to help me decide whether there is something wrong
with my HD300 or there is a general design defect. I hate to start talking
with Sony's support people (who will no doubt ask me which channel I have
the RF out set to and suggest that I remove and re-insert my access card
many times) unless there is some chance that a replacement HD300 will help.
(In the past I would have assumed that a problem like this could not be basic
to the design, but after the SAT-AD2 frame mismatch bug I'm no longer so
sure. :( ) If it is a design problem I'll be better off trying to find a
"simple" external component to NTSC encoder.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Anonymous
July 12, 2004 12:35:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in message news:<1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>...
> I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
> tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
> seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
> a strange video glitch:
>
> After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
> (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
> you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
> up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
> for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
> picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
> examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
> with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
> visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
>
> A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
> even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
> number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
> goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
> the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
> is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
> set and viewing DirecTV stations.
>
> The effect felt enough like an NTSC color encoder problem (something drifts
> and is then reset?) that I decided to look at the Y component of the component
> output (running 480i of course) as a mono signal. It does not display the
> distortion and does not experience the "glitch" when switching stations
> (after first confirming that the guide text is in the distorted state by
> looking at the composite output). To pursue this further I fed the component
> outputs through a transcoding TBC and viewed the composite output. Now I had
> color and again there was no distortion and no glitch on switching stations.
> (There was some general picture instability which makes me wonder about the
> HD300's overall system timing--the TBC is usually pretty tolerant.) Of course
> that didn't really prove anything since the TBC could have been covering up
> the problem. So I switched to the TBC's composite input (and the HD300's
> composite output) and again was able to see the glitch on switching stations
> with the guide text in the distorted state. The glitch looked a bit different
> (presumably the TBS's input reacts somewhat differently from the XBR100's) but
> it was definitely there. Still not conclusive, but it certainly seems like an
> encoder problem.
>
> If anyone is still reading at this point and has an HD300 to play with I'd
> really appreciate any data to help me decide whether there is something wrong
> with my HD300 or there is a general design defect. I hate to start talking
> with Sony's support people (who will no doubt ask me which channel I have
> the RF out set to and suggest that I remove and re-insert my access card
> many times) unless there is some chance that a replacement HD300 will help.
> (In the past I would have assumed that a problem like this could not be basic
> to the design, but after the SAT-AD2 frame mismatch bug I'm no longer so
> sure. :( ) If it is a design problem I'll be better off trying to find a
> "simple" external component to NTSC encoder.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com

Mine works fine. Return yours and get ir replaced.
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 12:43:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <ecba8b59.0407120734.2337a1b9@posting.google.com>, hpp@linkline.com (harry parrell) writes:
| ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in message news:<1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>...

| > After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
| > (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
| > you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
| > up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
| > for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
| > picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
| > examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
| > with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
| > visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
| >
| > A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
| > even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
| > number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
| > goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
| > the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
| > is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
| > set and viewing DirecTV stations.

[...]

| Mine works fine. Return yours and get ir replaced.

Did you try going into the guide (after having been tuned to one station for
a while) changing the station, and looking for the glitch? I ask because the
distortion is kind of subtle (and may depend on the particular tv set), but
the flash (and subsequent lack of flash on additional channel changes) is fairly
distinctive.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Related resources
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 12:43:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mine also works fine it that respect. Mine however has another
problem. Twice in the last couple of weeks it has had fits where a
remote button press takes MNAY seconds until the unit responds.
Eventually, it goes into channel scan and then everything clears up.

AFJ

On 12 Jul 2004 20:43:58 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

>In article <ecba8b59.0407120734.2337a1b9@posting.google.com>, hpp@linkline.com (harry parrell) writes:
>| ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in message news:<1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>...
>
>| > After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
>| > (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
>| > you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
>| > up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
>| > for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
>| > picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
>| > examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
>| > with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
>| > visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
>| >
>| > A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
>| > even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
>| > number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
>| > goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
>| > the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
>| > is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
>| > set and viewing DirecTV stations.
>
>[...]
>
>| Mine works fine. Return yours and get ir replaced.
>
>Did you try going into the guide (after having been tuned to one station for
>a while) changing the station, and looking for the glitch? I ask because the
>distortion is kind of subtle (and may depend on the particular tv set), but
>the flash (and subsequent lack of flash on additional channel changes) is fairly
>distinctive.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 12:44:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <6s56f0p0p68edtulelrt0f978srmu2ncur@4ax.com>,
airforcejayhawk@comcast.net says...
> Mine also works fine it that respect. Mine however has another
> problem. Twice in the last couple of weeks it has had fits where a
> remote button press takes MNAY seconds until the unit responds.
> Eventually, it goes into channel scan and then everything clears up.

Mine does that, except that I circumvent the process by pressing the
reset button (next to the access card) when it seems slow. Problem
seems to be happening more lately.
Anonymous
July 13, 2004 5:36:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <6s56f0p0p68edtulelrt0f978srmu2ncur@4ax.com>, airforcejayhawk@comcast.net (Air Force Jayhawk) writes:
| Mine also works fine it that respect.

So perhaps there is some value in asking Sony to do something. I assume they
will send me a scratched-up "refurbished" unit to replace my shiny new one,
but I guess it would be worth it if it actually fixed the glitch. Just to be
sure now, you are using composite or Svideo and can't see any glitch/blink/flash
when switching stations by moving left to the station number in the guide after
being tuned to the previous station for, say, 20 minutes?

| Mine however has another
| problem. Twice in the last couple of weeks it has had fits where a
| remote button press takes MNAY seconds until the unit responds.

I just noticed mine doing that. Also, while moving through the guide listing
the yellow highlight will vanish completely for a while when it gets behind,
and then reappear after a few seconds. It was increasing behavior like this
(followed by crashes and loss of custom stations) in the HD200 that provoked
me to "upgrade" to the HD300. The life of these receivers seems to be getting
shorter and shorter...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@dalan.*com
Anonymous
July 14, 2004 10:38:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

[following up to my own post]

In article <1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) writes:
| I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
| tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
| seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
| a strange video glitch:
|
| After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
| (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
| you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
| up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
| for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
| picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
| examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
| with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
| visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
|
| A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
| even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
| number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
| goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
| the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
| is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
| set and viewing DirecTV stations.

I've found a possibly less subjective way to identify the "bad" vs "good"
states. With the monitor connected to the HD300's composite output, enter
the guide and press "info" to call up the detail page. If the system is
in the "bad" state (i.e., has been tuned to the same station for long enough)
there is some great dot crawl on the borders of the detail box. If you have
changed stations recently the border lines are rock solid.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 10:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have the Hughes HTL-HD which is essentially the same receiver less
RF remote capability. After the recent software upgrade mine has been
very stable and does not have any problems of significance as far as I
can tell. The avsforum has many threads discussing this LG built
DirecTV HDTV Receiver. Go to the avsforum HDTV Hardware section and
read about the issues. The LG LST-3200A is also the same basic
receiver.

Chris

ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote in message news:<1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>...
> I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
> tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
> seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
> a strange video glitch:
>
> After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
> (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
> you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
> up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
> for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
> picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
> examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
> with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
> visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
>
> A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
> even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
> number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
> goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
> the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
> is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
> set and viewing DirecTV stations.
>
> The effect felt enough like an NTSC color encoder problem (something drifts
> and is then reset?) that I decided to look at the Y component of the component
> output (running 480i of course) as a mono signal. It does not display the
> distortion and does not experience the "glitch" when switching stations
> (after first confirming that the guide text is in the distorted state by
> looking at the composite output). To pursue this further I fed the component
> outputs through a transcoding TBC and viewed the composite output. Now I had
> color and again there was no distortion and no glitch on switching stations.
> (There was some general picture instability which makes me wonder about the
> HD300's overall system timing--the TBC is usually pretty tolerant.) Of course
> that didn't really prove anything since the TBC could have been covering up
> the problem. So I switched to the TBC's composite input (and the HD300's
> composite output) and again was able to see the glitch on switching stations
> with the guide text in the distorted state. The glitch looked a bit different
> (presumably the TBS's input reacts somewhat differently from the XBR100's) but
> it was definitely there. Still not conclusive, but it certainly seems like an
> encoder problem.
>
> If anyone is still reading at this point and has an HD300 to play with I'd
> really appreciate any data to help me decide whether there is something wrong
> with my HD300 or there is a general design defect. I hate to start talking
> with Sony's support people (who will no doubt ask me which channel I have
> the RF out set to and suggest that I remove and re-insert my access card
> many times) unless there is some chance that a replacement HD300 will help.
> (In the past I would have assumed that a problem like this could not be basic
> to the design, but after the SAT-AD2 frame mismatch bug I'm no longer so
> sure. :( ) If it is a design problem I'll be better off trying to find a
> "simple" external component to NTSC encoder.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 7:22:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

(following up to my own posting)

In article <1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) writes:
|
| I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
| tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
| seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
| a strange video glitch:
|
| After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
| (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
| you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
| up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
| for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
| picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
| examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
| with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
| visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
|
| A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
| even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
| number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
| goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
| the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
| is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
| set and viewing DirecTV stations.
[...]
| If anyone is still reading at this point and has an HD300 to play with I'd
| really appreciate any data to help me decide whether there is something wrong
| with my HD300 or there is a general design defect. I hate to start talking
| with Sony's support people (who will no doubt ask me which channel I have
| the RF out set to and suggest that I remove and re-insert my access card
| many times) unless there is some chance that a replacement HD300 will help.

After going round with Sony for a bit (and performing the expected power
cycles, removals/insertions of access card, NVRAM reset, etc. to no avail)
they decided that something is probably wrong. Unfortunately, since the unit
is now (just) over 30 days from purchase the best they will do is a refurbished
replacement some unspecified time after I ship my unit to them. Disturbingly,
they kept asking why I hadn't purchased an extended warranty on such an
expensive product. :( 

Now if we were talking about an an advanced replacement with a refurbished unit
I wouldn't mind since I could I could reject the refurbished unit if it turned
out to be worse than the one I have. Or if it were a new replacement I'd
figure there wasn't much to lose. But with this deal I think there is a good
chance that I'll end up with a unit that (a) was returned for some other
obscure problem that has not actually been fixed, (b) is dented/scratched, and
(c) still has the problem I'm observing (which I'm beginning to think is a
design defect visible only on select monitors). Should I take the gamble?

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
Anonymous
August 20, 2004 11:51:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.dbs,rec.video,alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

[again following up to my own article]

In article <1331069@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) writes:

| I recently "upgraded" my Sony HD200 to an HD300 because I was getting
| tired of the constant spontaneous guide resets. The HD300's picture
| seems a little darker and noiser than that of the HD200 and there is
| a strange video glitch:
|
| After the unit has been tuned to a particular station for a while
| (5-20 minutes) there is a very brief flash of color much like what
| you see on an OTA analog broadcast when an interfering station syncs
| up well enough for the set to lock onto the wrong color subcarrier
| for a moment. Once this has happened there is a subtle change in the
| picture. It's hard to describe, but if you bring up the guide and
| examine the text of a program description it will look a bit distorted
| with the bottoms of letters pushed to the left. This is particularly
| visible with lower case m's and n's whose "legs" curve to the left.
|
| A correct picture can be restored by switching to a different station,
| even from within the guide (by moving the cursor left to the sation
| number). There is again that brief flash of color and the guide text
| goes back to undistorted for a while. Switching stations again while
| the guide text is undistorted does *not* result in a flash. The effect
| is the same for composite or Svideo outputs. I am using a Sony XBR100
| set and viewing DirecTV stations.

The story continues... Since Sony was backordered on the refurbs I decided to
buy a new unit in the meantime. I figured I could always use the original one
for a second receiver after Sony exchanged it. The new unit does not have the
problem, so I was starting to be optimistic about the replacement. Today I
received the refurb replacement for the original unit. The refurb _does_ have
the problem, though the timing is a bit different and artifacts on the detail
page exist (slightly) even in the "good" state. I notice that the replacement
has a manufacture date of 9/2003 just like my original unit. The good/new
unit has a 2004 date (I forget the month). So either there were production
issues around the 9/2003 time frame (and the refurb process ignores the problem)
or maybe there was a design change between the bad units and the good one. I'm
not sure what to do now...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
!