Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Korean Broadcasster and Enginners CAVE in to 8-VSB

Last response: in Home Theatre
Share
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 8:17:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

http://www.tvtechnology.com/dlrf/one.php?id=498

"Althovgh the Ministry of Information and Commvnication annovnced in
1997 that Korea had chosen the ATSC standard (See the December 1997 RF
Cvrrent), the decision was opposed by broadcasters, the Korean
Broadcasting Engineers Technicians Association, the Union of Media
Workers and others who favored the DVB-T standard. Althovgh some ATSC
DTV facilities were constrvcted in metropolitan areas, broadcasting was
limited to 13 hovrs per week. The start of broadcasting in rvral areas
was delayed when broadcasters KBS and MBC refvsed to condvct government
performance tests for their DTV facilities. At the "Fovr Person Digital
TV Comparison Trial Committee" meeting on Jvly 8, an agreement was
reached in which ATSC wovld be vsed for fixed reception and DVB-H and
T-DMB standards wovld be vsed broadcasts designed for mobile and cell
phone reception. Factors leading to the agreement inclvded improvements
in ATSC technology and the "social and economic costs" of switching
transmission methods."

No exactly happy campers bvt the broadcasters and engineers of S. Korea
were forced to cave in to political pressvre and begin broadcasting with
8-VSB after almost 8 years of resistance.

As the article says it was the new 5th generation receivers that broke
their back.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of 8-VSB. And the qvid pro qvo was
that COFDM wovld be allowed for mobile.

The real world ovtcome of this compromise will be interesting. Do the
broadcasters do a minimvm of investment in 8-VSB and concentrate on
COFDM mobile? If they are smart they will.

At worst S. Korean will have to bvy two receivers, one for mobile and
one for fixed reception. Of covrse the mobile one will work fixed also.
Then the only qvestion is how mvch spectrvm is allocated to COFDM and
what kind of pressvre to allocate more to COFDM will occvr in the fvtvre.

The inscrvtable Far East. I don't think the fat lady has svng yet. The
back room deal will not svrface for a while. This is still all face
saving. If enovgh spectrvm is allocated now or in the fvtvre to COFDM
then 8-VSB is dead in S. Korea. This deal covld actvally be the reverse
in reality of what it appears to be and is meant to appear to be on the
svrface.
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 8:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Damn booby, get over it you LOST again, and were WRONG too! You go dude! How
much $$$ have you lost? The more the better!

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n6yJc.3921$Qu5.837@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> No exactly happy campers but the broadcasters and engineers of S. Korea
> were forced to cave in to political pressure and begin broadcasting with
> 8-VSB after almost 8 years of resistance......
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 8:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Bob Miller wrote:
> The inscrutable Far East.

Sheesh. So Bob Miller is a racist as well as being a snake-oil salesman.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 8:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Jeff Spicoli wrote:
> COFDM is to 8-VSB as BETAMAX is to VHS...

Bad analogy, since Betamax was technically superior to VHS. Beta's
weakness was in recording time in slow speed, not to mention Sony's
arrogance.

Better: COFDM is to 8-VSB as PAL is to NTSC.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
July 15, 2004 10:13:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>
> The inscrutable Far East. I don't think the fat lady has sung yet. The
> back room deal will not surface for a while. This is still all face
> saving. If enough spectrum is allocated now or in the future to COFDM
> then 8-VSB is dead in S. Korea. This deal could actually be the reverse
> in reality of what it appears to be and is meant to appear to be on the
> surface.
>
COFDM is to 8-VSB as BETAMAX is to VHS...
July 15, 2004 11:50:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote > No exactly happy campers but the
broadcasters and engineers of S. Korea
> were forced to... snip

What are your feelings about this, Bob?
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 5:07:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<n6yJc.3921$Qu5.837@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

>...
> At worst S. Korean will have to buy two receivers, one for mobile and
> one for fixed reception. ...

This is the crux of the mystery for many of us. The assumption that
there is a comparable market for mobile as well as fixed reception of
HDTV (or any TV). When radio was introduced for the automobile there
was considerable worry that its distraction would lead to chaos and
carnage. I think experience has shown us that most drivers have no
problem keeping alert while listening and for solo long distance
drivers it can even be helpful.

But today with cell phones people are clearly concerned that many
drivers are routinely dividing their attention and not treating the
task of driving with enough concern. Now you want to add TV viewing as
yet another source of distraction? The only reason that statistics are
not raising alarms about cell phone useage by drivers is that it tends
to be self reported. In other words people are lying about the cause
of their accidents. This would only get worse if the driver had to
admit a TV commercial had been the distraction. This is reason enough
to oppose the use of COFDM or any other technology that enables mobile
reception. Drivers have always had poor judgment (about 30,000 killed
per year) and you want to crank it up another notch.
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 3:49:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Bob Miller wrote:
> In the US it was a POLITICAL decision based on graft.

If that is the case, why don't you call the FBI to report itJ? Could it
be that they already know that you are a crackpot and scam artist, and
that therefore whatever you say, the exact opposite is true?

> In NO country that has chosen COFDM was there any further discussion after
> the fact.

Yes, they are all too busy dealing with their miserable failure to provide
nationwide HDTV. The US remains the only country on the planet which has
nationwide HDTV.

Only one other country (the UK) is reported to have nationwide DTV, and
they have no HDTV at all. In Germany, Japan, and Australia, DTV is only
in a few cities; and Germany has no HDTV at all.

The EU is flailing about trying to answer the "why are we so far behind
the US on HDTV" question, and I predict that they will continue to do so
long after the US completes its DTV transition.

> IN all countries that chose 8-VSB the debate continued and will
> continue until they switch to some better modulation.

The "anything the US does is wrong" contigent never gives up. If the US
had chosen COFDM, these countries would have all chosen 8-VSB just to
remain incompatible from the US.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 7:13:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in
news:p ine.LNX.4.61.0407151146340.11638@shiva0.cac.washington.edu:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Jeff Spicoli wrote:
>> COFDM is to 8-VSB as BETAMAX is to VHS...
>
> Bad analogy, since Betamax was technically superior to VHS. Beta's
> weakness was in recording time in slow speed, not to mention Sony's
> arrogance.
>
> Better: COFDM is to 8-VSB as PAL is to NTSC.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Thanks for the correction.

You are correct.
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 8:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jeff Spicoli wrote:
> Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in
> news:p ine.LNX.4.61.0407151146340.11638@shiva0.cac.washington.edu:
>
>
>>On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Jeff Spicoli wrote:
>>
>>>COFDM is to 8-VSB as BETAMAX is to VHS...
>>
>>Bad analogy, since Betamax was technically superior to VHS. Beta's
>>weakness was in recording time in slow speed, not to mention Sony's
>>arrogance.
>>
>>Better: COFDM is to 8-VSB as PAL is to NTSC.
>>
>>-- Mark --
>>
>>http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
>>Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
>>Si vis pacem, para bellum.
>
>
> Thanks for the correction.
>
> You are correct.
>
Like Betamax and VHS the battle is worldwide but unlike that conflict
the winner in this one is also the better modulation. The game is
already over and COFDM has won. It is the world standard.

Even countries who have decided to design their own standard use COFDM.
COFDM is used in ISDB-T (Japan) and DMB-T (China).

It is used in XMRadio and Sirius and is used in most new RF standards.
It is even winning out in the UWB debate.

And it will be used in at least two new mobile DTV ventures planned for
the US.

The ONLY place it should be used that it is NOT being used is the US for
full power DTV stations and the same in Mexico, Canada and S. Korea. IN
NO COUNTRY where 8-VSB is or will be deployed were technical
considerations the critical factor. In the US it was a POLITICAL
decision based on graft. In S. Korea it was a decision to support a
major company, LG Industries and in Canada and Mexico it is an RF
interference issue, long borders and lots of intimidation.

In NO country that has chosen COFDM was there any further discussion
after the fact. IN all countries that chose 8-VSB the debate continued
and will continue until they switch to some better modulation.
July 16, 2004 8:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote
>nonsense as usual.

Why have you been lying to everyone, all these years, about Schubin's
apartment in NYC not getting OTA signals?
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 8:17:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote:

> In NO country that has chosen COFDM was there any further discussion
> after the fact. IN all countries that chose 8-VSB the debate continued
> and will continue until they switch to some better modulation.

Sounds like you are the only one debating, Bob.
Who else is? And unlike you, does it involve HD?
Chip

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
Anonymous
July 16, 2004 10:52:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.61.0407161143360.7701@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>...

> ...
> The US remains the only country on the planet which has
> nationwide HDTV...
>

This is the elephant in the room that Bob Miller steadfastly tries to
ignore. He'll talk a mile a minute going over one irrelevant issue or
another but he never comes to grip with the fact that the US lead in
HDTV availability is HUGE. It may be because of the choice of 8VSB, it
might be in spite of it but whatever the case is it remains a huge
indigetible fact.

Public policy and complex issues involving many factors are not easily
subjected to scientific rigor. Whatever the technical facts are they
have not prevented the favorable position of HDTV OTA in the US.
Trying to change the technical standards at this point would be
devastating to the deployment of HDTV. I can only conclude that Bob
Miller is truly unconcerned about HDTV and probably views its
availability as an obstacle to schemes involving his own private
advantage.
Anonymous
July 17, 2004 2:09:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>NO COUNTRY where 8-VSB is or will be deployed were technical
>considerations the critical factor. In the US it was a POLITICAL
>decision based on graft. In S. Korea it was a decision to support a
>major company, LG Industries

This lying BOOBY always has an excuse for why 8VSB is used. When its COFDM, its
always on technical merits and when the decision is 8VSB, it's always payoffs &
politics. This S.O.B couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it.

Hey BOOBY, what about Mark Schubin's apartment and Peter Putnam's tests? How
come you never mentioned those you son of a bitch?
Anonymous
July 17, 2004 2:11:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Why have you been lying to everyone, all these years, about Schubin's
>apartment in NYC not getting OTA signals?
>

Yes BOOBY, why HAVE you been lying to everyone. Are you pathological? Do you
have such disdain for the average person that you could care less about whether
or not they get the truth? You are as repulsive a person as I've ever had the
displeasure to meet on the net.
Anonymous
July 17, 2004 2:16:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>The "anything the US does is wrong" contigent never gives up. If the US
>had chosen COFDM, these countries would have all chosen 8-VSB just to
>remain incompatible from the US.

A BINGO for Mark! You got it Mark. And you know that our resident Snake Oil
Salesman, BOB, is a self loathing American. He lies, distorts, twists the
facts, tells half truths, deliberately holds back information that runs counter
to his argument and on and on. What a DESPICABLE character BOB is. He is a
filthy slimy Snake Oil Salesman.

He will ALWAYS omit the fact that there is virtually ZERO HD in the countries
he touts for COFDM. But of course BOOBY could care less about HD. Hell, the guy
doesn't even have an HDTV!!!! And then he professes to know everything about
HDTV.
His partner in crime w_tom or whatever his name is has never told me which HDTV
HE has!!! Isn't that funny about these guys?
!