New to HDTV - how reliable is OTA reception with an indoor..

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bruiser" <noth@nks.com> wrote in
news:n7qdnf3Sv9hyfWrdRVn-uA@giganews.com:

> Brand new to HDTV, expecting my new set to be delivered next week. I
> had pretty much assumed I would just let Adelphia hook me up with
> their receiver for the extra $10/month, but their HD-station line up
> is pretty slim (I live in Los Angeles).
>
> I'm thinking now more about getting my own HD receiver and using an
> indoor antenna, but don't know if this would be worth the extra
> expense. The area I live in is surrounded (at least on 3 sides) by
> hills, and even getting a decent cell phone signal in my place is a
> challenge. I know it's impossible to get a definitive answer on this,
> but I'd appeciate any advice or recommendations anyone has.
>
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>
>
>

Start here http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

Go to chose an antenna.

No one can tell you for sure, you'll just have to try.

Dave

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bruiser" <noth@nks.com> wrote in message
news:n7qdnf3Sv9hyfWrdRVn-uA@giganews.com...
> Brand new to HDTV, expecting my new set to be delivered next week. I had
> pretty much assumed I would just let Adelphia hook me up with their
receiver
> for the extra $10/month, but their HD-station line up is pretty slim (I
live
> in Los Angeles).
>
> I'm thinking now more about getting my own HD receiver and using an indoor
> antenna, but don't know if this would be worth the extra expense. The area
I
> live in is surrounded (at least on 3 sides) by hills, and even getting a
> decent cell phone signal in my place is a challenge. I know it's
impossible
> to get a definitive answer on this, but I'd appeciate any advice or
> recommendations anyone has.
> Thanks,
> Bruce

There's an interesting article about this in the August isue of Home
Theater magazine.
Also lots of info here:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I use a small indoor multidirectional antenna hooked to a preamp and then to
the HDTV, and my OTA reception from Atlanta 25 miles to the South comes in
crystal clear. Even the channels that antennweb said I would not get
without a large directional antenna.

"Bruiser" <noth@nks.com> wrote in message
newsaidnQQxO8NZvWTd4p2dnA@giganews.com...
> Thanks for the input. I'll check it out.
>
> B.
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Actually it's a very good indication. I'm in a similar situation, 15 or so
miles from the antenna farm (multiple stations). On a clear night I can
see the beacons (strobes) from the roof of my house, but an indoor antenna
did NOT work and believe me, I tried several.

The TERK models, even the big TERK 55, were worst of all. The Silver
Sensor from Circuit City worked best inside, but still I could only get
two channels reliably.

I ended up putting a Radio Shack yagi-style corner reflector on the roof
and tied it into my sat system with a signal combiner and we now get
magnificent OTA reception on all 9 available OTA (UHF) channels.

Indoor antennas have worked for a few people, but have not worked for
most. Bite the bullet and put up an outdoor antenna. The results are worth
the effort. Your community association can **NOT** prevent you from
putting one up. New Federal laws are in place now that preempt deed
restrictions that forbid ordinary TV antennas. The law even allows you to
put them up on rental property and apartments (within reason).


In article <s-ednd8q2ckGiWbdRVn-pg@giganews.com> "Bruiser" <noth@nks.com>
writes:

>The broadcast tower here is on Mt. Wilson, which is 14 miles north of me.
>Not too far, but I'm not sure how unobstructed the view must be for a decent
>signal.
>
>If I hook up a regular, $25 Radio Shack set-top antenna I used before going
>to cable (which should be getting signals from Mt. Wilson, AFAIK), I get
>basically very poor results, which only a couple of stations coming in OK.
>Perhaps this is comparing apples to oranges, but would this give me any
>indication of what I could expect from an HD set-top antenna?
>
>
>
>Rajendra Gondhalekar wrote:
>>> I use a small indoor multidirectional antenna hooked to a preamp and
>>> then to the HDTV, and my OTA reception from Atlanta 25 miles to the
>>> South comes in crystal clear. Even the channels that antennweb said
>>> I would not get without a large directional antenna.
>>>
>>> "Bruiser" <noth@nks.com> wrote in message
>>> newsaidnQQxO8NZvWTd4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>>>> Thanks for the input. I'll check it out.
>>>>
>>>> B.
>
>

--
Help Support Satellite Radio!
Your local radio broadcasters through their powerful NAB lobbyiests
are currently pushing a bill through Congress that if passed, would block
the Satellite Radio services from carrying local content (Traffic & Weather)
Please call your elected representatives at (202) 225-3121 and urge them to
Oppose HR 4026. We need your help, please.
<http://www.xmradio.com/grassroots/index.jsp>

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <pan.2004.07.19.01.02.10.668623@earthlink.net>,
"Gerry Wheeler" <gxwheeler@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> I use a similar antenna (maybe the same one? Radio Shack U-75R.), and I'm
> picking up DTV stations from 40+ miles away. However, I get MUCH better
> results if I add a preamp to the antenna. I was very surprised how much
> difference it made.
>
The reason for the preamp to help doesn't result only from gain,
but can help to match the antenna/coax and receiver much better.
Good preamps can provide a fairly robust 75ohm input and output impedance
(not very dependent upon frequency or load.)

When a receiver or antenna doesnt' provide a perfect load
(or source), the frequency response of the system can be
very uneven.

Along with providing a very good load, the effect of the antenna
directionality behavior can be made more consistent. For example,
if the load to the antenna isn't 'reasonable', then the antenna
directionality will be poor.

It is VERY VERY possible that a 0dB gain preamp, if it provides
a theoretically correct load and source, will improve reception!!!

Additionally, it is VERY VERY possible that a lossy device (attenuator)
will improve reception if the receiver input is overloaded.

The caveats are that a preamp can add distortion to the signal,
and too much gain is MUCH MUCH worse than too little gain. IMO,
except for the most fringe situation, it is best that a preamp
should have 20dB of gain or less. Even in fringe situations, an
preamp can be overloaded from nearby out-of-band signals.

Off subject too much detail:

For an indoor antenna preamp, I'd specify a device
with 10-15dB of wideband gain, 1dB NF, greater than 10dB return
loss on input and output (in essense, a really good impedance
match), and greater than 13dBm output capability. This can be
achieved by using ONE HP 54143 PHEMT, being powered by a 3V power
supply (actually 6V) at 60ma, and such a device costs
approx $2/each. A more
production worthy design would use two gain devices and two PNP
transistors for rock solid bias stability, to provide more
input/output isolation and some frequency response shaping. I'd
design it for a ROCK SOLID 75ohm input and output impedance.

The amazing thing about the HP device is that it can provide
very good 75 or 50ohm matching, and it's noise match is fairly
close to 75 or 50ohms at UHF frequencies. Negative feedback is
very helpful on this device, because the transconductance is
very high -- unheard-of from vacuum tube (valve) days. (The
transconductance of those PHEMTS is approx 1.0MHO!!!) The
equivalent Triode or Pentode (or JFET/MOSFET) would
have 0.010 MHOS of transconductance. When considering the
very high (and usable) transconductance and the intrinsic
NF of 0.30dB at UHF, these parts open up many design
constraints, and can also provide nearly theoretical matching
characteristics.

In a carefully designed circuit, the
IP3 can be 35+dBm, P1dB of >16dBm, <0.5dBNF and a near perfect
75ohm match over the entire UHF TV band.


John

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

It is not an indicator for me. I can't get a single good analog station OTA
with the same indoor antenna, even with the preamp hooked inline. Digital
signals OTA are perfect. Both are tranmited from towers from the same area,
which is not visible to me.

"Mr Fixit" <MrFixit@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8g5mf0p2vp2m7cckug4rurmmaeg8nhrjtt@4ax.com...
> Actually it's a very good indication. I'm in a similar situation, 15 or so
> miles from the antenna farm (multiple stations). On a clear night I can
> see the beacons (strobes) from the roof of my house, but an indoor antenna
> did NOT work and believe me, I tried several.
>
> The TERK models, even the big TERK 55, were worst of all. The Silver
> Sensor from Circuit City worked best inside, but still I could only get
> two channels reliably.
>
> I ended up putting a Radio Shack yagi-style corner reflector on the roof
> and tied it into my sat system with a signal combiner and we now get
> magnificent OTA reception on all 9 available OTA (UHF) channels.
>
> Indoor antennas have worked for a few people, but have not worked for
> most. Bite the bullet and put up an outdoor antenna. The results are worth
> the effort. Your community association can **NOT** prevent you from
> putting one up. New Federal laws are in place now that preempt deed
> restrictions that forbid ordinary TV antennas. The law even allows you to
> put them up on rental property and apartments (within reason).
>
>
> In article <s-ednd8q2ckGiWbdRVn-pg@giganews.com> "Bruiser" <noth@nks.com>
> writes:
>
> >The broadcast tower here is on Mt. Wilson, which is 14 miles north of me.
> >Not too far, but I'm not sure how unobstructed the view must be for a
decent
> >signal.
> >
> >If I hook up a regular, $25 Radio Shack set-top antenna I used before
going
> >to cable (which should be getting signals from Mt. Wilson, AFAIK), I get
> >basically very poor results, which only a couple of stations coming in
OK.
> >Perhaps this is comparing apples to oranges, but would this give me any
> >indication of what I could expect from an HD set-top antenna?
> >
> >
> >
> >Rajendra Gondhalekar wrote:
> >>> I use a small indoor multidirectional antenna hooked to a preamp and
> >>> then to the HDTV, and my OTA reception from Atlanta 25 miles to the
> >>> South comes in crystal clear. Even the channels that antennweb said
> >>> I would not get without a large directional antenna.
> >>>
> >>> "Bruiser" <noth@nks.com> wrote in message
> >>> newsaidnQQxO8NZvWTd4p2dnA@giganews.com...
> >>>> Thanks for the input. I'll check it out.
> >>>>
> >>>> B.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Help Support Satellite Radio!
> Your local radio broadcasters through their powerful NAB lobbyiests
> are currently pushing a bill through Congress that if passed, would block
> the Satellite Radio services from carrying local content (Traffic &
Weather)
> Please call your elected representatives at (202) 225-3121 and urge them
to
> Oppose HR 4026. We need your help, please.
> <http://www.xmradio.com/grassroots/index.jsp>