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Luskan hates me. Bug?

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Anonymous
August 31, 2005 12:24:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Hi,

I'm playing trough the OC for the second time and something weird happened
in Luskan. All of a sudden, just about everybody in town seems to hate me
and attacks me on sight. Not just the normal enemy's, but the shopkeepers
and civilians too. The only ones being still nice to me are the guys in the
temple, the people in the brothel and my faithful Grimgnaw.

Or so I thought.

It seems now that when he dies, he becomes part of the anti-player campaign
that holds Luskan in it's grip. As soon as I walk through the portal to pick
him up for more killing and bloodshed he jumps at me and beats me up. Now I
know he likes killing, but this is absurd.

Well, having the entire city hate me is not really a problem. I missed a few
quests, but I'm still able to progress. But when my merc. must stay alive at
all times, it's rather annoying (I mean, who's going to walk up to all those
certain death traps?)

I'm playing the latest version of Neverwinter Nights, and have both
expansions installed. The only 'weird' thing I did was try to attack the
guard who is the first guy you'll encounter on the streets of Luskan. He was
invincible, chased me around for a bit, but let me go later on. Directly
after that, people were still being normal. I've killed a few other harmless
citizens, but that shouldn't be a reason to hate me? Let them blame my
alignment instead!

Has anyone heard of this before and know if there's a reason or a way to fix
it/avoid it? I hope to play chapter 3 without any of this and still be able
to rob and kill folks.

Thanks in advance,

LUH-3417

More about : luskan hates bug

Anonymous
August 31, 2005 12:24:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

LUH-3417 wrote:
>
> I'm playing trough the OC for the second time and something
> weird happened in Luskan. All of a sudden, just about
> everybody in town seems to hate me and attacks me on sight.
....
> The only 'weird' thing I did was try to attack the guard
> who is the first guy you'll encounter on the streets of
> Luskan.

This is why everyone is after you. You attacked a 'friendly' and so have
been marked as a 'hostile'.


> I've killed a few other harmless citizens, but that shouldn't
> be a reason to hate me?

Uh ... it's a pretty darn good reason. It's called "being civilized."


> Has anyone heard of this before and know if there's a reason
> or a way to fix it/avoid it?

Go to a save game before you started attacking those allied with you --
and then stop killing innocent civilians and allies.


> I hope to play chapter 3 without any of this and still be able
> to rob and kill folks.

In case you are serious ... good luck with that. ;) 


- Sheldon, thinking he has just been trolled
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:41:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> schreef in bericht
news:4314B65F.E29BC888@netscape.net...
> LUH-3417 wrote:
> >
>
> This is why everyone is after you. You attacked a 'friendly' and so have
> been marked as a 'hostile'.

That's too bad. The reason I'm killing lots of civilians is that I played
the OC the first time as a good character and am now trying to be as evil as
possible. I still think it's weird that shop-keepers attack me. They haven't
done that in the first chapter, and there I've been just as evil and nasty
(I've cleared out the entire blacklake district, including guards). And what
about Grimgnaw? Why would he join the Luskan-people when he leaves my party
by death, when he should be on my team, among the guys at the temple?

> Uh ... it's a pretty darn good reason. It's called "being civilized."

I'm sorry, I was a little ironic. I just thought the whole idea of my
trusted partner suddenly attacking so weird that I choose my words rather
merrily. But still, I'm playing an evil character and evil characters should
have the option of not being civilized. I just can't see how this thing with
shopkeepers and my merc. is the game's reasonble response to my evilness.
That's why I was thinking it might be a bug.

> Go to a save game before you started attacking those allied with you --
> and then stop killing innocent civilians and allies.

I'm afraid I haven't got a savegame, but it's no big deal. I'll finish the
chapter and try to be a little less evil in the next chapter to see if that
helps.

> - Sheldon, thinking he has just been trolled

You haven't been trolled, I'm sorry if I gave you reason to think so. I'm
just not really experienced as a Neverwinter Nights-player.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:41:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

LUH-3417 wrote:
> "Sheldon England" <sheldonengland@netscape.net> schreef in bericht
> news:4314B65F.E29BC888@netscape.net...
>
>>LUH-3417 wrote:
>>
>>This is why everyone is after you. You attacked a 'friendly' and so have
>>been marked as a 'hostile'.
>
>
> That's too bad. The reason I'm killing lots of civilians is that I played
> the OC the first time as a good character and am now trying to be as evil as
> possible. I still think it's weird that shop-keepers attack me. They haven't
> done that in the first chapter, and there I've been just as evil and nasty
> (I've cleared out the entire blacklake district, including guards). And what
> about Grimgnaw? Why would he join the Luskan-people when he leaves my party
> by death, when he should be on my team, among the guys at the temple?
>
>
>>Uh ... it's a pretty darn good reason. It's called "being civilized."
>
>
> I'm sorry, I was a little ironic. I just thought the whole idea of my
> trusted partner suddenly attacking so weird that I choose my words rather
> merrily. But still, I'm playing an evil character and evil characters should
> have the option of not being civilized. I just can't see how this thing with
> shopkeepers and my merc. is the game's reasonble response to my evilness.
> That's why I was thinking it might be a bug.

You need to be functional evil. :-p Be Michael Corleone, not Jack the
Ripper. Jack wasn't in a position to get quest rewards.

Grimgnaw wants to stop whoever created the plague, for the Silent
Lord--if you demonstrate that you're part of the problem rather than
part of the solution, he'll put you down as casually as he does any of
the thugs you've run into on the street.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:41:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

LUH-3417 wrote:
> I'm sorry, I was a little ironic. I just thought the whole idea of my
> trusted partner suddenly attacking so weird that I choose my words rather
> merrily. But still, I'm playing an evil character and evil characters should
> have the option of not being civilized. I just can't see how this thing with
> shopkeepers and my merc. is the game's reasonble response to my evilness.


It's part of NWN's reputation/faction system. Merchants are part of the
Merchant faction (which makes sense), and they are friendly to the
Commoner faction, so when you start killing commoners, the merchants go
hostile. The thing is, henchmen are also members of the Merchant
faction, so once they leave your employ, they revert to looking at you
with whatever reputation you have with the Merchant faction.

The guys in the Temple have their own faction, so they aren't affected.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:38:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Barry Scott Will" <nwn_usenet@cavecreations.net> schreef in bericht
news:yO-dnZhCUZg_mIjeRVn-2g@comcast.com...

> It's part of NWN's reputation/faction system. Merchants are part of the
> Merchant faction (which makes sense), and they are friendly to the
> Commoner faction, so when you start killing commoners, the merchants go
> hostile. The thing is, henchmen are also members of the Merchant
> faction, so once they leave your employ, they revert to looking at you
> with whatever reputation you have with the Merchant faction.
>
> The guys in the Temple have their own faction, so they aren't affected.
> --
> Barry Scott Will
> Pyric RPG Publications
> http://www.pyric.com/

I knew I should've read the manual better. Now that you explain it, I
remember reading something about it. Thanks, It makes sense now.

Is there anyway to make friends with them again? Will the merchants in the
next chapter share the hostility Luskan feels to me now, or does my
reputation not travel so far?
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:45:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:41:14 +0200, "LUH-3417" <nomail@for.me> wrote:

>That's too bad. The reason I'm killing lots of civilians is that I played
>the OC the first time as a good character and am now trying to be as evil as
>possible. I still think it's weird that shop-keepers attack me. They haven't
>done that in the first chapter, and there I've been just as evil and nasty
>(I've cleared out the entire blacklake district, including guards). And what
>about Grimgnaw? Why would he join the Luskan-people when he leaves my party
>by death, when he should be on my team, among the guys at the temple?

Attack one member of a faction and all members of that faction become
hostile to you.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:45:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:24:00 +0200, "LUH-3417" <nomail@for.me> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm playing trough the OC for the second time and something weird happened
>in Luskan. All of a sudden, just about everybody in town seems to hate me
>and attacks me on sight. Not just the normal enemy's, but the shopkeepers
>and civilians too. The only ones being still nice to me are the guys in the
>temple, the people in the brothel and my faithful Grimgnaw.

It sounds like you attacked a civilian.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

LUH-3417 wrote:
> I knew I should've read the manual better. Now that you explain it, I
> remember reading something about it. Thanks, It makes sense now.
>
> Is there anyway to make friends with them again? Will the merchants in the
> next chapter share the hostility Luskan feels to me now, or does my
> reputation not travel so far?


I know there are certain things that cause your reputation to be reset.
Dying and respawning might be one of them. :)  It might also reset when
you advance to the next chapter. Unfortunately, I just don't know what
triggers the reputation changes.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 4:39:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Barry Scott Will" <nwn_usenet@cavecreations.net> schreef in bericht
news:59KdnQiWp8Axi4veRVn-gg@comcast.com...

>
>
> I know there are certain things that cause your reputation to be reset.
> Dying and respawning might be one of them. :)  It might also reset when
> you advance to the next chapter. Unfortunately, I just don't know what
> triggers the reputation changes.
> --
> Barry Scott Will
> Pyric RPG Publications
> http://www.pyric.com/

I'm in chapter three now and everything seems to be okay. From now on I'll
be more carefull with my evilness. :) 
September 19, 2005 9:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Barry Scott Will" wrote in message
news:yO-dnZhCUZg_mIjeRVn-2g@comcast.com...
>
>
> It's part of NWN's reputation/faction system. Merchants are part of the
> Merchant faction (which makes sense), and they are friendly to the
> Commoner faction, so when you start killing commoners, the merchants go
> hostile. The thing is, henchmen are also members of the Merchant
> faction, so once they leave your employ, they revert to looking at you
> with whatever reputation you have with the Merchant faction.
>

That aspect of the game has caused me to do a lot of scripting I wasn't
expecting to
have to do in my user module. It's been quite a challenge to allow an evil
character
to behave accordingly to his alignment. Probably the most difficult part is
trying to
determine when a victim's faction would reasonably be aware of the
evil-doer's action
and go hostile, and when they would not be aware and still be friendly (to
allow for
sneaky evil behavior).

The other difficulty is when you want a faction to react in a unified way
towards outside threats, but
you want to also allow some individual responses. (For example: letting
the player get in
a bar fight with one guy without the whole town jumping in and putting the
boots to you.)

I've found plenty of ways to make it work for specific situations, but I
haven't yet found a way
to apply a combined individual\social behavior to all the characters in the
game. Giving characters
situational awareness in general has turned out to be quite a challenge.
(although a fun challenge)

Anyway, just singing the module designer's blues.
-bc
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 1:27:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:03:12 GMT, "bc" <bc@nomail.com> wrote:

>I've found plenty of ways to make it work for specific situations, but I
>haven't yet found a way
>to apply a combined individual\social behavior to all the characters in the
>game. Giving characters
>situational awareness in general has turned out to be quite a challenge.
>(although a fun challenge)

Yeah, a while back I had an idea for a module and got bogged down in
this sort of thing. It was critically important to know who observed
an action even if that action was merely a matter of equipment. (It
was a strictly RP type adventure in which you had to behave properly
in public but get away with things behind the scenes.)
Anonymous
September 20, 2005 5:54:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Loren Pechtel wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:03:12 GMT, "bc" <bc@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I've found plenty of ways to make it work for specific situations, but I
>>haven't yet found a way
>>to apply a combined individual\social behavior to all the characters in the
>>game. Giving characters
>>situational awareness in general has turned out to be quite a challenge.
>>(although a fun challenge)
>
>
> Yeah, a while back I had an idea for a module and got bogged down in
> this sort of thing. It was critically important to know who observed
> an action even if that action was merely a matter of equipment. (It
> was a strictly RP type adventure in which you had to behave properly
> in public but get away with things behind the scenes.)

I tried to come up with a similar system once, but while I could picture
a way of making it work, what I really wanted was a way to control not
just who might have seen something, but who they might have told, and
then to putting some "weight" to how much they believed it. While I
could brute force it on a small scale, by pathing the NPC's around and
having them pass flags to each other only when in range of "friendlies",
doing it for dozens or even hundreds of NPC's across dozens of zones,
well, that got to be far too much effort. Then too, I started to
consider what would happen if hostile NPC's were in hearing range of two
friendly NPC's who were passing information to each other, eavesdropping
if you will.

And consider the "telephone" game... how do you account for people
misunderstanding what the original witness was saying, and then
misquoting them? Imagine you're observed giving a candy to a young
mage's apprentice, and then later the prince gives his guards orders to
kill you on sight because its well known that you hired a witch to curse
the town crier!

I've found every module I tried to create got bogged down in something
that the game was not designed for; I'm apparantly incapable of
confining myself to just using the tools that are already available.

And of course, like many others before me, what I've often said is that
I could make really great modules if only someone else would do the
dirty work. Absent paying them, though, there's not really a bunch of
people who enjoy slogging thru the nitty gritty of putting the nuts and
bolts of modules together but lack the big picture ideas.

I'm left hoping that NWN2 has a simpler yet more robust module creation
tool.
September 23, 2005 8:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Loren Pechtel" <lorenpechtel@remove.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8b0j19u9pqkf5ek3jbcq5umv5r2t8doud@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:03:12 GMT, "bc" <bc@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >I've found plenty of ways to make it work for specific situations, but I
> >haven't yet found a way
> >to apply a combined individual\social behavior to all the characters in
the
> >game. Giving characters
> >situational awareness in general has turned out to be quite a challenge.
> >(although a fun challenge)
>
> Yeah, a while back I had an idea for a module and got bogged down in
> this sort of thing. It was critically important to know who observed
> an action even if that action was merely a matter of equipment. (It
> was a strictly RP type adventure in which you had to behave properly
> in public but get away with things behind the scenes.)

Yeah, it's easy to get bogged down in this stuff. I'm determined to finish
this blasted thing, though. I don't know if you're still working on yours,
but one thing I've found useful is to set a faction neutral to itself, and
then handle whether or not an NPC is aware of a player's evil action towards
another member of the faction in a general OnAttacked script. That way, the
whole faction of the person you attacked won't become hostile, only the
members within shouting distance. I haven't got all the kinks worked out of
it, but that's the route I'm trying at the moment.

As far as equipment and such, the only thing I know to do there is to add a
check in the NPC's OnPercieved and OnConversation scripts to check if the
player is wearing the equipment in question. If you're still working on
your module, I might have some scripts you could modify for your own
purposes. Good luck.
September 23, 2005 8:31:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Lance Berg" <emporer@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
news:eLKdne9tD5BW0a3eRVn-og@dejazzd.com...
>
>
>
> I've found every module I tried to create got bogged down in something
> that the game was not designed for; I'm apparantly incapable of
> confining myself to just using the tools that are already available.
>

Yeah, I know the feeling. I've had to disable most of the sub-systems in
the game and re-write my own to try to make it work the way I want it to do.
I've had to scale back somewhat, just because I'd like to finish this thing
some time this century.

> And of course, like many others before me, what I've often said is that
> I could make really great modules if only someone else would do the
> dirty work. Absent paying them, though, there's not really a bunch of
> people who enjoy slogging thru the nitty gritty of putting the nuts and
> bolts of modules together but lack the big picture ideas.
>
Well, I actually like doing the nuts and bolts, but you're right; it
wouldn't be much fun doing it for someone else's big picture ideas. That
being said, if I ever finish this thing, I might have some scripts and
sub-systems in place that you could use for your modules.

> I'm left hoping that NWN2 has a simpler yet more robust module creation
> tool.

Just browsing thru the NWN2 forum, it looks like a lot of what I want will
be added to the toolset. One thing in particular is the ability to pass
variables along with scripts in a conversation file. That way, if you need
to check a skill level against a 10 in one instance and a 20 in another
instance, you don't have to write two different scripts like you do now.
You can write one script and pass in the number you want to check against.
The bad news for me is that there's no Linux version, so it looks like I'm
stuck with NWN1. :( 
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 11:45:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:07:02 GMT, "bc" <bc@nomail.com> wrote:

>Yeah, it's easy to get bogged down in this stuff. I'm determined to finish
>this blasted thing, though. I don't know if you're still working on yours,
>but one thing I've found useful is to set a faction neutral to itself, and
>then handle whether or not an NPC is aware of a player's evil action towards
>another member of the faction in a general OnAttacked script. That way, the
>whole faction of the person you attacked won't become hostile, only the
>members within shouting distance. I haven't got all the kinks worked out of
>it, but that's the route I'm trying at the moment.
>
>As far as equipment and such, the only thing I know to do there is to add a
>check in the NPC's OnPercieved and OnConversation scripts to check if the
>player is wearing the equipment in question. If you're still working on
>your module, I might have some scripts you could modify for your own
>purposes. Good luck.

I never actually started to write code because I didn't see how to
solve the problems. I've done very little with the designer but I'm a
professional programmer.

I'm not worried about attacks, but rather being seen where they aren't
supposed to be or talking to someone they aren't supposed to talk to.
I'll certainly look at the OnPerceived function--I didn't realize
there was one.

As for the scripts--my reply address isn't valid but is easily fixed.
I'm just hiding from the viruses that kept filling my mailbox up.
September 29, 2005 9:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Loren Pechtel" <lorenpechtel@remove.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13e9j1h71n08akpiij585uvlivfkc90vuo@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:07:02 GMT, "bc" <bc@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >As far as equipment and such, the only thing I know to do there is to add
a
> >check in the NPC's OnPercieved and OnConversation scripts to check if the
> >player is wearing the equipment in question. If you're still working on
> >your module, I might have some scripts you could modify for your own
> >purposes. Good luck.
>
> I never actually started to write code because I didn't see how to
> solve the problems. I've done very little with the designer but I'm a
> professional programmer.
>
> I'm not worried about attacks, but rather being seen where they aren't
> supposed to be or talking to someone they aren't supposed to talk to.
> I'll certainly look at the OnPerceived function--I didn't realize
> there was one.
>
> As for the scripts--my reply address isn't valid but is easily fixed.
> I'm just hiding from the viruses that kept filling my mailbox up.
>
I may not have exactly what you want, but I think I have something similar.
I set up an ambush scenario where the monsters would not attack until the PC
walked into a certain area. I set up a user event on the monsters that
would make them attack. I set up the OnPerceived event on the monsters to
check if the player was in the ambush area. If he was, it would trigger the
user event and they would attack. I made an area trigger containing the
ambush area and put a script in the triggers' OnEnter event to signal the
monster's user event also. That handles cases where the monsters percieve
the player in a neutral area and then he walks into the ambush area.

You could do something similar, only instead of attacking, you could have
the user event set a flag on the NPC that they had seen the action. In any
case, you will probably need to combine the events like above. In other
words, have the event (such as equipping an item, talking to someone, or
entering an area) trigger a script to check if any NPC's can see the event,
and also modify the NPC's OnPercieved event to check if the player is
performing the bad action when they first percieve him/her.

I'll try to dig out the scripts in the next couple of days and e-mail them
to you. Right now, I'm just getting things up and running after the storm.
It's easy to take electricity for granted until you go without it for 6
days. I hope Rita was the last of the storms for this year. I'll never
take air conditioning for granted again. Beautiful, beautiful air
conditioning. :) 
!