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DLP or LCD?

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Anonymous
July 23, 2004 11:51:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.

My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.

Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
money out there than these two.

More about : dlp lcd

Anonymous
July 23, 2004 3:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Chris Fiorentino wrote:
> Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
> choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
> choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
> KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
> Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
> DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
> but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.
>
> My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
> include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
> interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
> the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
> include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
> marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
> for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
> like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
> don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.
>
> Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
> money out there than these two.

The HLN series from Samsung is already being replaced with the new
models, so don't go that route, especially for the money Crutchfield is
charging. Most who own the DLP sets love them. I've seen them and like
them, although I do notice the rainbow effect when I turn my head away
fro mthe set. It's not terrible, but it is noticeable for me.

I've seen the Sony sets and my brother owns the 50" WE610. I think they
are great, and given that the pricing is cheaer for the Sony (at least
where you are shopping) I would go that route.

Or wait for the HD3 and HD2+ sets from Samsung and compare them to the
Sony.




--
David G.
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 4:16:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
news:w8qdnY0iqYKPsJzcRVn-rw@comcast.com...
> Chris Fiorentino wrote:
> > Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
> > choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
> > choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
> > KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
> > Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
> > DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
> > but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.
> >
> > My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
> > include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
> > interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
> > the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
> > include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
> > marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
> > for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
> > like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
> > don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.
> >
> > Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
> > money out there than these two.
>
> The HLN series from Samsung is already being replaced with the new
> models, so don't go that route, especially for the money Crutchfield is
> charging. Most who own the DLP sets love them. I've seen them and like
> them, although I do notice the rainbow effect when I turn my head away
> fro mthe set. It's not terrible, but it is noticeable for me.
>
> I've seen the Sony sets and my brother owns the 50" WE610. I think they
> are great, and given that the pricing is cheaer for the Sony (at least
> where you are shopping) I would go that route.
>
> Or wait for the HD3 and HD2+ sets from Samsung and compare them to the
> Sony.
>
There is a marginally better picture with LCD than light processing in this
generation. There is a beat pattern that happens with some displayed video
frequencies. It's barely noticeable.

Samsung has an economy of scale much greater than Sony's. Parts prices on
the Samsung are very good. Service is easily available TOO. Add to that
the ability of the light processing engine to process more light than LCD
and we have a winner. If I were a businessman I'd be investigating the
possibility of selling a third party lamp for DLP 60 and above sets that has
more light output. Right now the 43" thru I think 70 inch use the same lamp
element in both LCD and DLP. At sizes above 70 inch they use two lamps in
the DLP.

More light in a LCD would wash out the picture as light would bleed thru the
LCD. In the DLP the color wheel filters might saturate allowing some white
thru. I'd guess that they use larger color wheels in the larger sets and
focus the light after going thru the color wheel onto the TI mirror assm.
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Anonymous
July 23, 2004 4:16:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:WvKdnQ2vWfAppJzcRVn-pg@comcast.com...

> More light in a LCD would wash out the picture as light would bleed thru
the
> LCD. In the DLP the color wheel filters might saturate allowing some
white
> thru.

You seem to be suggesting some non-linear mechanism in the filters.
I find this surprising.
What are the filters made of?
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 4:57:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:51:04 -0700, Chris Fiorentino wrote:

> Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
> choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
> choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
> KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
> Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
> DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
> but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.
>
> My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
> include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
> interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
> the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
> include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
> marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
> for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
> like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
> don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.
>
> Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
> money out there than these two.

I bought the 50" Sony a few weeks ago. I couldn't see any difference in
the pictures between the two and I don't like the idea of a motor driven
color wheel, there have been some complaints on this group from people
complaining about the motors becoming noisy after a few months. The color
wheel also harks back to the days of Logie Baird, it wasn't an optimal
solution then and I don't think it is now.
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 5:19:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:WvKdnQ2vWfAppJzcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Samsung has an economy of scale much greater than Sony's. Parts prices on
> the Samsung are very good. Service is easily available TOO. Add to that
> the ability of the light processing engine to process more light than LCD
> and we have a winner. If I were a businessman I'd be investigating the
> possibility of selling a third party lamp for DLP 60 and above sets that
has
> more light output. Right now the 43" thru I think 70 inch use the same
lamp
> element in both LCD and DLP. At sizes above 70 inch they use two lamps in
> the DLP.
>
> More light in a LCD would wash out the picture as light would bleed thru
the
> LCD. In the DLP the color wheel filters might saturate allowing some
white
> thru. I'd guess that they use larger color wheels in the larger sets and
> focus the light after going thru the color wheel onto the TI mirror assm.

Can you post the prices for the replacement boards for the Samsung. I can
dig up the prices on the Sony. It would be interesting to make a
comparison. It would also give people an idea of the cost of repair on
these newer technologies which will be dominated by board cost, as opposed
to the dominance of labor cost where component level repairs are conducted.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 5:57:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Pete Fraser" <pete@rgb.com> wrote in message
news:10g2f6sn3mso927@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:WvKdnQ2vWfAppJzcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>
> > More light in a LCD would wash out the picture as light would bleed thru
> the
> > LCD. In the DLP the color wheel filters might saturate allowing some
> white
> > thru.
>
> You seem to be suggesting some non-linear mechanism in the filters.
> I find this surprising.
> What are the filters made of?
>
> The color wheel in the DLP is what you would expect of an optical filter.
Light shines thru what looks like a yellow material with reflected light but
with light thru the filter (blue and green filtered out) is RED. Same with
ther other two filters on the wheel. the wheel spins at 9000 RPM and has
two sets of white, red, green, blue, pass filters. Shine enough white thru
the filter and some colors that you do not want will get thru.
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 7:07:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard G. Caillouet" <lcaillo_ns_@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:eObMc.10153$%S4.6658@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:WvKdnQ2vWfAppJzcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> > Samsung has an economy of scale much greater than Sony's. Parts prices
on
> > the Samsung are very good. Service is easily available TOO. Add to
that
> > the ability of the light processing engine to process more light than
LCD
> > and we have a winner. If I were a businessman I'd be investigating the
> > possibility of selling a third party lamp for DLP 60 and above sets that
> has
> > more light output. Right now the 43" thru I think 70 inch use the same
> lamp
> > element in both LCD and DLP. At sizes above 70 inch they use two lamps
in
> > the DLP.
> >
> > More light in a LCD would wash out the picture as light would bleed thru
> the
> > LCD. In the DLP the color wheel filters might saturate allowing some
> white
> > thru. I'd guess that they use larger color wheels in the larger sets and
> > focus the light after going thru the color wheel onto the TI mirror
assm.
>
> Can you post the prices for the replacement boards for the Samsung. I can
> dig up the prices on the Sony. It would be interesting to make a
> comparison. It would also give people an idea of the cost of repair on
> these newer technologies which will be dominated by board cost, as opposed
> to the dominance of labor cost where component level repairs are
conducted.
>
> Leonard
>
Can't tell prices as I signed an non-disclosure agreement. The DMD board
(it has the TI mirror chip on it)is the most expensive . The major
components include 4 boards one ballast power supply one Lamp and a color
wheel. all except one under $200
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 9:43:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I chose the LCD technology over DLP after auditioning both with analog
content. I still watch a good deal of SD programming and the Sony was more
tolerant than were the Sammy's I looked at. However, both
technologies/implementations still have some gotchas. For now, the LCD won.
In another generation (this year) or 2, I might choose differently
especially since there'll be more digital and less analog around. Since
October, I have been quite happy, the Superbowl in HD was awesome!
DiscoveryHD, PBS, and the INHD channels are superb. Weekly episodes of shows
like CSI set the bar.

YMMV
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 11:16:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Seems they are a lot of sales people on here.
I have the Hitachi 50V500 LCD, and I have the brightness turned way down,
it's capable of terrific brightness compared to the Mitsubishi , I never did
like the picture!
As far as the Sony LCD put it next to a Hitachi and make up your own mind.
I'm Disabled and NOT a sales person, and I never liked Hitachi, but
seeing is believing. My next choice was a Samsung, but that was DLP, and
don't want no color wheel, that goes back to the first TV I seen when TV
started.

"MrMike6by9" <MrMike6by9@tepidmail.com> wrote in message
news:p tSdnQunpKcOG5zcRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
> I chose the LCD technology over DLP after auditioning both with analog
> content. I still watch a good deal of SD programming and the Sony was more
> tolerant than were the Sammy's I looked at. However, both
> technologies/implementations still have some gotchas. For now, the LCD
won.
> In another generation (this year) or 2, I might choose differently
> especially since there'll be more digital and less analog around. Since
> October, I have been quite happy, the Superbowl in HD was awesome!
> DiscoveryHD, PBS, and the INHD channels are superb. Weekly episodes of
shows
> like CSI set the bar.
>
> YMMV
>
>
Anonymous
July 23, 2004 11:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:l4-dnTbC1sVP_JzcRVn-uA@comcast.com...

> Can't tell prices as I signed an non-disclosure agreement. The DMD board
> (it has the TI mirror chip on it)is the most expensive . The major
> components include 4 boards one ballast power supply one Lamp and a color
> wheel. all except one under $200

Your non-disclosure agreement says that you can't provide parts prices? How
will you ever do an estimate? How will you ever sell anything? Contracts
with manufacturers have some degree of confidentiality, but pricing? That's
silly. You don't have to provide dealer prices, just tell us what you would
sell them for.

I just saw a Sharp price for a DMD board (they call it a formatter board)
for ~$2700 dealer cost. Is the Samsung similar?

KF60WE610 approximate prices that we would sell parts for repair for our
customers:

9 minor boards between $35-100
$180 A board, interfaces to most other boards
$1250.00 Optical Unit with Main & LCD engine micros
$160 Lamp power supply block
$925 DIC video processing
$165 G1board (power supply)
$240 Lamp

People need to get prices on the major parts and discuss service procedures
with their dealer. Sony supplies complete scematics for most of the boards
along with parts lists. Some others do not. We will attempt to repair all
boards possible at the component level, but this will not be possible on
many of the major boards in many of the newer technology products. Most
manufacturers and most servicers consider these products to be board level
repair only, which will result in much higher repair costs than people have
been accustomed to.

Which boards are going to be most likely to break? How often? Which brands
will be most reliable? No one can know. I will say that my experience with
Samsung CRT based RP products leaves me very much unimpressed on all levels.
I have not found their parts prices to be that great, nor the quality and
design. DLP vs LCD? Hard to say, but if someone would post some prices for
the DLP products we could at least compare prices. Can't wait to see the
Mitsubishi DLP stuff that is coming.

Interesting also, is that I have seen virtually no discussion of the Optoma
DLP RP products here. They seem to be very impressive to me, better than
the Sony LCD RPs (which are the best I have seen) and better than the
Samsungs (which I personally don't like as much as the better LCD units).
They are more costly, but seem to be significantly nicer in pix quality.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 5:22:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:22:00 -0400, "David G."
>
>The HLN series from Samsung is already being replaced with the new
>models, so don't go that route, especially for the money Crutchfield is
>charging. Most who own the DLP sets love them. I've seen them and like
>them, although I do notice the rainbow effect when I turn my head away
>fro mthe set. It's not terrible, but it is noticeable for me.
>
>I've seen the Sony sets and my brother owns the 50" WE610. I think they
>are great, and given that the pricing is cheaer for the Sony (at least
>where you are shopping) I would go that route.
>
>Or wait for the HD3 and HD2+ sets from Samsung and compare them to the
>Sony.



If it isn't too much trouble, can you tell me the difference between
the CURRENT samsung HLN model's chips and the newer one that you're
referring to, perhaps the HD3, in the above quote?

Do they do something different, or just "improved?"

If they are improved, is it a substantial amount, or would the average
Joe not see any appreciable difference, and therefore be happy with
the current ones (at substantial discounts right now?)

I can't afford to waste the price of one of these sets to get one now
and find out I've shot myself in the foot by not waiting a little bit.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to this newbie type question.
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 5:24:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
just the bigger sets?

Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?

Any FAQ's on these units in general?

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:57:42 -0400, General Schvantzkoph
<schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 07:51:04 -0700, Chris Fiorentino wrote:
>
>> Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
>> choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
>> choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
>> KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
>> Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
>> DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
>> but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.
>>
>> My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
>> include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
>> interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
>> the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
>> include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
>> marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
>> for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
>> like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
>> don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.
>>
>> Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
>> money out there than these two.
>
>I bought the 50" Sony a few weeks ago. I couldn't see any difference in
>the pictures between the two and I don't like the idea of a motor driven
>color wheel, there have been some complaints on this group from people
>complaining about the motors becoming noisy after a few months. The color
>wheel also harks back to the days of Logie Baird, it wasn't an optimal
>solution then and I don't think it is now.
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 10:35:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jeff Rigby wrote:
>
>>Can you post the prices for the replacement boards for the Samsung. I can
>>dig up the prices on the Sony. It would be interesting to make a
>>comparison. It would also give people an idea of the cost of repair on
>>these newer technologies which will be dominated by board cost, as opposed
>>to the dominance of labor cost where component level repairs are
> conducted.
>
> Can't tell prices as I signed an non-disclosure agreement. The DMD
board
> (it has the TI mirror chip on it)is the most expensive . The major
> components include 4 boards one ballast power supply one Lamp and a color
> wheel. all except one under $200

That's very interesting. How much specialized knowledge and/or
equipment is required to work with these parts? Are there specialized
alignment and color tweaking activities that go along with them? Or is
is just a question of swapping parts in and out?

I'm just wondering whether or not a reasonably technical amateur could
repair or update his/her own DLP set.

I'll have a technician here in a couple of weeks to do the warranty
audio/video/sync update to my Samsung. I think I'll try to take a good
look at the process involved.
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 10:48:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bouncer wrote:

> Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
> just the bigger sets?

All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.

> Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
> such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
>
> Any FAQ's on these units in general?

Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
many other forums on various HDTV topics.
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 1:20:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:C4ednS9Sna3spp_cRVn-oA@adelphia.com...
> Jeff Rigby wrote:
> >
> >>Can you post the prices for the replacement boards for the Samsung. I
can
> >>dig up the prices on the Sony. It would be interesting to make a
> >>comparison. It would also give people an idea of the cost of repair on
> >>these newer technologies which will be dominated by board cost, as
opposed
> >>to the dominance of labor cost where component level repairs are
> > conducted.
> >
> > Can't tell prices as I signed an non-disclosure agreement. The DMD
> board
> > (it has the TI mirror chip on it)is the most expensive . The major
> > components include 4 boards one ballast power supply one Lamp and a
color
> > wheel. all except one under $200
>
> That's very interesting. How much specialized knowledge and/or
> equipment is required to work with these parts? Are there specialized
> alignment and color tweaking activities that go along with them? Or is
> is just a question of swapping parts in and out?
>
> I'm just wondering whether or not a reasonably technical amateur could
> repair or update his/her own DLP set.
>
> I'll have a technician here in a couple of weeks to do the warranty
> audio/video/sync update to my Samsung. I think I'll try to take a good
> look at the process involved.

Good questions, Jim. The standard response from a tech or a manufacturer is
likely to be that there is a lot more to it than swapping boards, and to
some degree this is true. Much of the necessary skill is in diagnosing
which board is bad, which even a lot of techs have trouble doing. Also,
there may be difficulties in disassembly/assembly, and some alignments to
do. Compared to a CRT based set, the alignments are minor. In terms of the
skills needed for proper diagnosis, that varies with the problem and the
design of the set. The short answer is my usual one...it depends.

I can't tell you much detail about repairs on the Samsung, other than what I
get from friends who service them as ASCs. We decided to pass on the
Samsung DLPs, based on what we had seen in the repairs and quality of their
other products and the quality being similar overall to more mature LCD
technology. Given what we have seen in DLP projectors, there is a great
deal of refinement coming in the DLP products and we are hopeful that the
next year or so will bring some very good quality to the more affordable
price ranges in RP.

As for your repair, ask the tough questions, but don't be surprised if the
answers are weak.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 6:30:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:48:48 -0400, Jim Gilliland
>
>Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
>comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
>many other forums on various HDTV topics.


Thanks for the lead, I'll tune in over there.
Anonymous
July 24, 2004 8:37:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 23 Jul 2004 07:51:04 -0700, CFioren317@excite.com (Chris
Fiorentino) wrote:

>Right now I am getting close to a purchase and have narrowed my
>choices down to 2, from online retailer "Crutchfield.com". The
>choices are the Samsung HLN617W 61" DLP for $3999 and the SONY
>KF60WE610 60" WEGA LCD for $3499. I will be using the TV mainly for
>Comcast HDTV broadcasts, including HBO, sports, and my collection of
>DVD's. I am assuming it will be used for some analog OTA broadcasts,
>but I don't really watch much TV other than sports and movies.
>
>My question is, which TV should I buy? My factors for purchase
>include the $$$ difference, durability, flexibility (I would be
>interested in hooking my computer up to the TV to watch movies down
>the road), and others which I am sure I don't have the knowledge to
>include. $500 is not a deal-breaker for me, so if the DLP is even
>marginally better, I would purchase it. I have had a Sony Wega 32"
>for 6 years and like it so Sony was first on my list, but DLP sounds
>like a better/newer technology so I am not sure which way to go. I
>don't want my TV to be an 8-track within 6 months.
>
>Also, please let me know if you think there are better TV's for the
>money out there than these two.

Go to the AVS forum and see this thread re: Samsung DLPs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?s=&action=showr...

Almost half of the people in this poll (121 respondents right now)
have said their DLP required some service, was DOA, or have issues
regarding picture quality. That's not a good, IMHO.
---------------

Remove 24 to reply.
Anonymous
July 25, 2004 3:27:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Dan P. wrote:
>
> Go to the AVS forum and see this thread re: Samsung DLPs:
>
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?s=&action=showr...
>
> Almost half of the people in this poll (121 respondents right now)
> have said their DLP required some service, was DOA, or have issues
> regarding picture quality. That's not a good, IMHO.

Well, I don't know. As far as I can tell, nearly every HD set has a
significant number of people who claim issues regarding picture quality
or other service needs. It's certainly not limited to Samsung.

Most of the Samsung owners are probably concerned about a well-known
issue with audio/video sync. The good news is that Samsung has been
VERY upfront about it, and is providing a fix that basically brings the
earlier sets up to the level of the current generation. They didn't
have to go as far as they have to resolve this, but they've chosen to
take the high road. Many manufacturers aren't anywhere near as
concerned about customer sat as Samsung seems to be.

I'm delighted with my Samsung - even though I currently have a warranty
service call scheduled to fix the sync issue. It's a great set.
Anonymous
July 25, 2004 4:36:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:gPidnVkMab0qtZ7cRVn-pQ@adelphia.com...
> Dan P. wrote:
> >
> > Go to the AVS forum and see this thread re: Samsung DLPs:
> >
> >
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?s=&action=showr...
> >
> > Almost half of the people in this poll (121 respondents right now)
> > have said their DLP required some service, was DOA, or have issues
> > regarding picture quality. That's not a good, IMHO.
>
> Well, I don't know. As far as I can tell, nearly every HD set has a
> significant number of people who claim issues regarding picture quality
> or other service needs. It's certainly not limited to Samsung.
>
> Most of the Samsung owners are probably concerned about a well-known
> issue with audio/video sync. The good news is that Samsung has been
> VERY upfront about it, and is providing a fix that basically brings the
> earlier sets up to the level of the current generation. They didn't
> have to go as far as they have to resolve this, but they've chosen to
> take the high road. Many manufacturers aren't anywhere near as
> concerned about customer sat as Samsung seems to be.
>
> I'm delighted with my Samsung - even though I currently have a warranty
> service call scheduled to fix the sync issue. It's a great set.

Samsung is trying really hard to by a large share of the DLP market and keep
it when others start coming out with sets. They have been quite aggressive
about taking care of the DLP customers. Far more so than the customers with
other products. I wonder how far that support will go once the sets are out
of warranty. I somewhat doubt that they will be as supportive as say
Mitsubishi with their liberal coverage of out of warranty problems or
Hitachi with their open access to technical support. They have had the same
kind of CRT coolant leakage problems as Hitachi and Mitsubishi (and Zenith,
and Philips, and Thomson) but I know of at least two customers who got no
satisfaction on sets no more than two years old with these problems. I know
of dozens of Hitachis and Mitsubishis older than that repaired under
warranty or replaced.

In the end, I suspect we may see Samsung hurting trying to support all of
the DLPs they sold at optimistic pricing to buy their market share.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 5:49:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:Qc6dnaEOytkFo5_cRVn-iw@adelphia.com...
> Bouncer wrote:
>
> > Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
> > just the bigger sets?
>
> All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.
>
> > Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
> > such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
> >
> > Any FAQ's on these units in general?
>
> Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
> comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
> many other forums on various HDTV topics.


Samsung is supposed to do away with the color wheel in their next generation
of DLP, but I haven't heard anything specific on when that will be.
Honestly, it isn't an issue. The only time I've ever seen the "rainbowing"
effect the color wheel produces was when I darted my eyes rapidly over a
test image of a white circle on a black background. In a moving image with
more colors, I don't see it.

DLP vs. LCD?
-DLP has no burn-in.
-DLP is half the weight or less.
-DLP is significantly cheaper
-DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to be.

I have a Samsung 43-inch DLP (HLN43-something, I think....). I'd buy
another one. I won't call it a "sammie" though.......

Cody
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 6:15:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

All DLP rear projectors use a color wheel and will continue to do so due to
cost. The only DLP projectors not using a color wheel (i.e., using 3 DLP
chips with one for each primary color) are very high end front projectors
whose price starts at $25,000 and goes up from there. Color wheels will
continue to be used in all consumer and business DLP projectors for at least
the next several years.

Ron Jones
www.dtvmax.com

"Cody k" <codykg@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5HTUc.22015661$Of.3669281@news.easynews.com...
>
> "Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
> news:Qc6dnaEOytkFo5_cRVn-iw@adelphia.com...
> > Bouncer wrote:
> >
> > > Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
> > > just the bigger sets?
> >
> > All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.
> >
> > > Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
> > > such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
> > >
> > > Any FAQ's on these units in general?
> >
> > Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
> > comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
> > many other forums on various HDTV topics.
>
>
> Samsung is supposed to do away with the color wheel in their next
generation
> of DLP, but I haven't heard anything specific on when that will be.
> Honestly, it isn't an issue. The only time I've ever seen the
"rainbowing"
> effect the color wheel produces was when I darted my eyes rapidly over a
> test image of a white circle on a black background. In a moving image with
> more colors, I don't see it.
>
> DLP vs. LCD?
> -DLP has no burn-in.
> -DLP is half the weight or less.
> -DLP is significantly cheaper
> -DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to be.
>
> I have a Samsung 43-inch DLP (HLN43-something, I think....). I'd buy
> another one. I won't call it a "sammie" though.......
>
> Cody
>
>
Anonymous
August 22, 2004 6:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:49:53 GMT, "Cody k"
<codykg@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
>news:Qc6dnaEOytkFo5_cRVn-iw@adelphia.com...
>> Bouncer wrote:
>>
>> > Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
>> > just the bigger sets?
>>
>> All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.
>>
>> > Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
>> > such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
>> >
>> > Any FAQ's on these units in general?
>>
>> Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
>> comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
>> many other forums on various HDTV topics.
>
>
>Samsung is supposed to do away with the color wheel in their next generation
>of DLP, but I haven't heard anything specific on when that will be.
>Honestly, it isn't an issue. The only time I've ever seen the "rainbowing"
>effect the color wheel produces was when I darted my eyes rapidly over a
>test image of a white circle on a black background. In a moving image with
>more colors, I don't see it.
>
>DLP vs. LCD?
>-DLP has no burn-in.

Neither do LCDs.

>-DLP is half the weight or less.

Panasonic LCD weight (50") = 80 lbs.
Sammy DLP weight (50") = 80 lbs.
Sony GW LCD weight (50") = 82 lbs.

>-DLP is significantly cheaper

Sammy DLP = 3.5K
Panasonic LCD = 2K (Tweeter)
Hitachi LCD= 3.3K
Sony GW LCD= 3.3K
(50" screens quoted at Circuit City)

>-DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to be.

+ clay faces, rainbows, motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise,
poorer blacks than CRTs, bad SD performance compared to LCDs and
CRTS.....

>
>I have a Samsung 43-inch DLP (HLN43-something, I think....). I'd buy
>another one. I won't call it a "sammie" though.......
>
>Cody
>
LOL....fanbois never check the facts. DLPs are a promising technology
that is badly flawed. Then again, I think everyone should invest in
them though so the developers can improve the technology :-)
---------------

Remove 24 to reply.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 4:11:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dan P." <silverho24@charter.net> wrote in message
news:D oqhi01a0fgv92ndinq21u6ae3i91d3ljd@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:49:53 GMT, "Cody k"
> <codykg@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
>>news:Qc6dnaEOytkFo5_cRVn-iw@adelphia.com...
>>> Bouncer wrote:
>>>
>>> > Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
>>> > just the bigger sets?
>>>
>>> All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.
>>>
>>> > Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
>>> > such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
>>> >
>>> > Any FAQ's on these units in general?
>>>
>>> Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
>>> comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
>>> many other forums on various HDTV topics.
>>
>>
>>Samsung is supposed to do away with the color wheel in their next
>>generation
>>of DLP, but I haven't heard anything specific on when that will be.
>>Honestly, it isn't an issue. The only time I've ever seen the
>>"rainbowing"
>>effect the color wheel produces was when I darted my eyes rapidly over a
>>test image of a white circle on a black background. In a moving image with
>>more colors, I don't see it.
>>
>>DLP vs. LCD?
>>-DLP has no burn-in.
>
> Neither do LCDs.
>
>>-DLP is half the weight or less.
>
> Panasonic LCD weight (50") = 80 lbs.
> Sammy DLP weight (50") = 80 lbs.
> Sony GW LCD weight (50") = 82 lbs.
>
>>-DLP is significantly cheaper
>
> Sammy DLP = 3.5K
> Panasonic LCD = 2K (Tweeter)
> Hitachi LCD= 3.3K
> Sony GW LCD= 3.3K
> (50" screens quoted at Circuit City)
>
>>-DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to be.
>
> + clay faces, rainbows, motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise,
> poorer blacks than CRTs, bad SD performance compared to LCDs and
> CRTS.....
>
>>
>>I have a Samsung 43-inch DLP (HLN43-something, I think....). I'd buy
>>another one. I won't call it a "sammie" though.......
>>
>>Cody
>>
> LOL....fanbois never check the facts. DLPs are a promising technology
> that is badly flawed. Then again, I think everyone should invest in
> them though so the developers can improve the technology :-)
> ---------------
>
> Remove 24 to reply.

Okay, so I was wrong about the price issue. As far as checking the facts, I
researched this for months, went to multiple retailers, looked online,
checked with friends about their HD experiences, looked at forums like this.
I was actually opposed to the DLPs before seeing them in action.
LCD = visible pixellation at any range. You mention motion artifacts and
support LCD? You obviously haven't looked at the TVs I have.....
LCD = dropped pixels. So they don't burn in. They burn out.
All types of TV are inferior to CRT in terms of black level. All HDs are
weak when viewing SD broadcasts. That's like dipping an orange in apple
juice and expecting it to taste like an apple.

Fanboi? Me? F you. I'm not the only one who favors the TV I own. A little
group called Consumer Reports named the Samsung DLPs as the best HDTVs on
the market.

Cody k
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 10:05:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:11:25 GMT, "Cody k"
<codykg@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>"Dan P." <silverho24@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:D oqhi01a0fgv92ndinq21u6ae3i91d3ljd@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:49:53 GMT, "Cody k"
>> <codykg@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Qc6dnaEOytkFo5_cRVn-iw@adelphia.com...
>>>> Bouncer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Can you tell me if ALL the samsungs use this motorized color wheel, or
>>>> > just the bigger sets?
>>>>
>>>> All of the Samsung DLPs use a color wheel.
>>>>
>>>> > Will it say anything about it in the specs, or would a guy just learn
>>>> > such things by hanging out in this group for awhile?
>>>> >
>>>> > Any FAQ's on these units in general?
>>>>
>>>> Spend some time on the http://www.avsforum.com/ board. There's a very
>>>> comprehensive forum there covering rear projection HDTVs, along with
>>>> many other forums on various HDTV topics.
>>>
>>>
>>>Samsung is supposed to do away with the color wheel in their next
>>>generation
>>>of DLP, but I haven't heard anything specific on when that will be.
>>>Honestly, it isn't an issue. The only time I've ever seen the
>>>"rainbowing"
>>>effect the color wheel produces was when I darted my eyes rapidly over a
>>>test image of a white circle on a black background. In a moving image with
>>>more colors, I don't see it.
>>>
>>>DLP vs. LCD?
>>>-DLP has no burn-in.
>>
>> Neither do LCDs.
>>
>>>-DLP is half the weight or less.
>>
>> Panasonic LCD weight (50") = 80 lbs.
>> Sammy DLP weight (50") = 80 lbs.
>> Sony GW LCD weight (50") = 82 lbs.
>>
>>>-DLP is significantly cheaper
>>
>> Sammy DLP = 3.5K
>> Panasonic LCD = 2K (Tweeter)
>> Hitachi LCD= 3.3K
>> Sony GW LCD= 3.3K
>> (50" screens quoted at Circuit City)
>>
>>>-DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to be.
>>
>> + clay faces, rainbows, motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise,
>> poorer blacks than CRTs, bad SD performance compared to LCDs and
>> CRTS.....
>>
>>>
>>>I have a Samsung 43-inch DLP (HLN43-something, I think....). I'd buy
>>>another one. I won't call it a "sammie" though.......
>>>
>>>Cody
>>>
>> LOL....fanbois never check the facts. DLPs are a promising technology
>> that is badly flawed. Then again, I think everyone should invest in
>> them though so the developers can improve the technology :-)
>> ---------------
>>
>> Remove 24 to reply.
>
>Okay, so I was wrong about the price issue. As far as checking the facts, I
>researched this for months, went to multiple retailers, looked online,
>checked with friends about their HD experiences, looked at forums like this.
>I was actually opposed to the DLPs before seeing them in action.
>LCD = visible pixellation at any range. You mention motion artifacts and
>support LCD? You obviously haven't looked at the TVs I have.....
>LCD = dropped pixels. So they don't burn in. They burn out.
>All types of TV are inferior to CRT in terms of black level. All HDs are
>weak when viewing SD broadcasts. That's like dipping an orange in apple
>juice and expecting it to taste like an apple.
>
>Fanboi? Me? F you. I'm not the only one who favors the TV I own. A little
>group called Consumer Reports named the Samsung DLPs as the best HDTVs on
>the market.
>
>Cody k
>
>
You were wrong about the weight issue, wrong about price, wrong about
burn-in (implying LCD has it).....all of your objective, measureable
bullet points, you were wrong. As far as your opinion about the Sammy
DLP being better than LCDs (and citing Consumer Reports), go to
CNET.com and see where they put the Sammy vs. the LCDs. I'll save you
the time....they rate it behind the LCDs. Opinions are like a$$holes,
everyone has one. DLPs are the most flawed technology of all the
major tech players.......and I stated why. Clay faces, rainbows,
motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise, poorer blacks than CRTs, bad
SD performance compared to LCDs and CRTS. No other tech has a laundry
list like this. Oh, BTW, DLPs have their own 'pixel'
problems......it's called stuck mirrors and they look alot like stuck
or dead pixels in LCDs. Maybe you should take a close look at your
unit......bet you see some.
---------------

Remove 24 to reply.
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 11:56:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dan P." <silverho24@charter.net> wrote in message
news:84qsi0phvol7rk80arivkf3590n7jcmm1g@4ax.com...
> You were wrong about the weight issue, wrong about price, wrong about
> burn-in (implying LCD has it).....all of your objective, measureable
> bullet points, you were wrong. As far as your opinion about the Sammy
> DLP being better than LCDs (and citing Consumer Reports), go to
> CNET.com and see where they put the Sammy vs. the LCDs. I'll save you
> the time....they rate it behind the LCDs. Opinions are like a$$holes,
> everyone has one. DLPs are the most flawed technology of all the
> major tech players.......and I stated why. Clay faces, rainbows,
> motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise, poorer blacks than CRTs, bad
> SD performance compared to LCDs and CRTS. No other tech has a laundry
> list like this. Oh, BTW, DLPs have their own 'pixel'
> problems......it's called stuck mirrors and they look alot like stuck
> or dead pixels in LCDs. Maybe you should take a close look at your
> unit......bet you see some.

This is a misleading post which is incorrect on several points. DLP is not
as mature a technology as LCD, but they are coming along very rapidly. The
issues that you mention are, to some degree, overstated, and not atypical of
both LCDs and PDPs.

The clay face problem is likely more related to digital processing than the
DLP process itself. We don't see it as a problem at all on the best sets.

Rainbows are mostly a problem with slower color wheels and those with less
segments.

Motion artifacts are, also, more related to digital processing than the DLP
design and is visible on any type of display, worse on lower end fixed-pixel
displays of all types.

Spurious noise is quite vague and could be any number of things, but is
likely either low level variations in activation potential of pixels or
cells and is related to the "clay faces" effect. It is worse on PDPs than
any other technology.

Poor black level is a problem with all technologies and varies greatly with
the quality of each type of product. The best DLPs are better than the best
PDPs and LCDs in this regard.

After selling dozens of DLP front and rear projection systems, we have had
not a single complaint of stuck pixels. Reports from manufacturers selling
DLP as well as other technologies are that the problem is less significant
with DLP than with either LCD or PDP sets, and is in the order of phosphor
defects in CRTs, which are virtually zero these days. I have examined many
units closely for stuck pixels on display, in installations, and when the
units come in for service and have seen none at all on any set. We have had
many LCD panels over the years with dead pixels and fields of dead pixels
(mostly blue) because the are sensitive to ineffective UV filtering and
heat. We have had two plasma panels with dead pixels.

The latest sets from Optoma and Mitsubishi look quite good. As the
technology matures and applications are refined, I believe that DLP will
largely replace LCD for projection applications, and eventually compete with
CRT based sets in terms of cost and performance. I agree that the Samsung
is not a great example of DLP implementation. Given that Samsung has been
pushing hard to buy market share early, however, it is not surprising that
there have been issues with the sets. Other companies like Mitsubishi and
Toshiba have been more conservative in bringing the sets to market and will
likely prove to be better applications of the technology. Optoma has had
some superior sets for a year or so, but have been at higher price points
than the Samsung. A number of much higher performance DLP front projection
systems have been available for some time. It is faulty to assume that
problems with the lowest end of the market represents the capability of a
technology. If this were sensible, we would be comparing DLPs to the
cheapest CRT based sets, and you would likely find more to like about DLP.
In a few years you will not be able to buy many CRT and LCD based projectors
and few people will be missing them.

Your post is hardly as objective as you may have been trying to imply with
your language and reeks of the same kind of misleading partial truths and
misconceptions that Bob Miller uses in his silly promotion of COFDM.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 12:06:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:56:32 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>
>"Dan P." <silverho24@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:84qsi0phvol7rk80arivkf3590n7jcmm1g@4ax.com...
>> You were wrong about the weight issue, wrong about price, wrong about
>> burn-in (implying LCD has it).....all of your objective, measureable
>> bullet points, you were wrong. As far as your opinion about the Sammy
>> DLP being better than LCDs (and citing Consumer Reports), go to
>> CNET.com and see where they put the Sammy vs. the LCDs. I'll save you
>> the time....they rate it behind the LCDs. Opinions are like a$$holes,
>> everyone has one. DLPs are the most flawed technology of all the
>> major tech players.......and I stated why. Clay faces, rainbows,
>> motion artifacts, lots of spurious noise, poorer blacks than CRTs, bad
>> SD performance compared to LCDs and CRTS. No other tech has a laundry
>> list like this. Oh, BTW, DLPs have their own 'pixel'
>> problems......it's called stuck mirrors and they look alot like stuck
>> or dead pixels in LCDs. Maybe you should take a close look at your
>> unit......bet you see some.
>
>This is a misleading post which is incorrect on several points. DLP is not
>as mature a technology as LCD, but they are coming along very rapidly. The
>issues that you mention are, to some degree, overstated, and not atypical of
>both LCDs and PDPs.
>
>The clay face problem is likely more related to digital processing than the
>DLP process itself. We don't see it as a problem at all on the best sets.

I see them with the Samsung....they exist...Scooby Doo DVD (which I am
very familiar with....I had to bring something to demo the DLPs)
played through a progressive DVD player on the Samsung. And it's not
just me who reports this problem.

>
>Rainbows are mostly a problem with slower color wheels and those with less
>segments.

They exist with the Sammy HLN and HLP.....I've seen them myself. I
refer you to this link that contains a poll on the AVS forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?s=&action=showr...

Almost half of the respondents see them, almost one-quarter returned
their set because of them. One-quarter!!!!! That's incredible.

>
>Motion artifacts are, also, more related to digital processing than the DLP
>design and is visible on any type of display, worse on lower end fixed-pixel
>displays of all types.
>
>Spurious noise is quite vague and could be any number of things, but is
>likely either low level variations in activation potential of pixels or
>cells and is related to the "clay faces" effect. It is worse on PDPs than
>any other technology.

I call it 'shimmering.' Bright lit points of light that exist with
bright scenes. I see them all the time. Tried to adjust it out and
failed. Again, go the AVS forum and lots of people mention the same
thing.

>
>Poor black level is a problem with all technologies and varies greatly with
>the quality of each type of product. The best DLPs are better than the best
>PDPs and LCDs in this regard.

With respect to black levels, CRT>DLP>LCD in terms of performance. We
agree that DLPs outperform the LCDs on this matter. It is the single
biggest flaw in LCD technology, IMO.
>
>After selling dozens of DLP front and rear projection systems, we have had
>not a single complaint of stuck pixels.

Reports of stuck mirrors:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&thread...

and

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&thread...

>Reports from manufacturers selling
>DLP as well as other technologies are that the problem is less significant
>with DLP than with either LCD or PDP sets,

I agree the incidence level is probably less among DLPs than LCDs

>and is in the order of phosphor
>defects in CRTs, which are virtually zero these days. I have examined many
>units closely for stuck pixels on display, in installations, and when the
>units come in for service and have seen none at all on any set. We have had
>many LCD panels over the years with dead pixels and fields of dead pixels
>(mostly blue) because the are sensitive to ineffective UV filtering and
>heat. We have had two plasma panels with dead pixels.
>
>The latest sets from Optoma and Mitsubishi look quite good. As the
>technology matures and applications are refined, I believe that DLP will
>largely replace LCD for projection applications, and eventually compete with
>CRT based sets in terms of cost and performance. I agree that the Samsung
>is not a great example of DLP implementation. Given that Samsung has been
>pushing hard to buy market share early, however, it is not surprising that
>there have been issues with the sets. Other companies like Mitsubishi and
>Toshiba have been more conservative in bringing the sets to market and will
>likely prove to be better applications of the technology. Optoma has had
>some superior sets for a year or so, but have been at higher price points
>than the Samsung. A number of much higher performance DLP front projection
>systems have been available for some time. It is faulty to assume that
>problems with the lowest end of the market represents the capability of a
>technology. If this were sensible, we would be comparing DLPs to the
>cheapest CRT based sets, and you would likely find more to like about DLP.
>In a few years you will not be able to buy many CRT and LCD based projectors
>and few people will be missing them.

I own a Pioneer Elite and not only was it one of the best HD sets ever
produced, they aren't returned for picture flaws like DLPs. CRTs have
been around forever. The kinks have been ironed out. They still have
problems with viewing angles and bright rooms. But, in a dimly lit
room with HD or good DVD material, the Elite is a slamdunk winner.
The DLP is an emerging technology with kinks in picture quality that
need to be ironed out. That's a simple fact. I don't care how old
the technology is. People ran out in droves to buy CDs when they
first came out...."perfect sound forever." Their sound was *badly*
flawed.

>
>Your post is hardly as objective as you may have been trying to imply with
>your language and reeks of the same kind of misleading partial truths and
>misconceptions that Bob Miller uses in his silly promotion of COFDM.
>
>Leonard
>
This is quite hilarious. Read back through the thread. My response
was prompted by the claim that DLPs are cheaper, lighter, and not
susceptible to burn in like LCDs (LCDs are not susceptible to burn
in). All patently false (and you say *I'm* misleading!) My response
centered on the claim that DLPs were superior to LCDs for these
reasons. And my other criticisms of the technology were in response
to "DLP is just as bright and beautiful as I could expect an HDTV to
be." False. There are better, much better HD TVs around. I
mentioned CRTs but plasmas are also better. If I had 7K to burn, I'd
spend it on the 50" Pioneer plasma.....for picture quality only....not
the current state of the technology.
---------------

Remove 24 to reply.
September 3, 2004 10:55:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hey, whoever wrote the original post, let me give you a piece of
advice...well, I think it's great because it's what I do. Anyway, go to an
electronics store where you can see dlp's, lcd's, plasmas, or whatever your
fancy. Look at all the models you can. You don't have to have a salesman
spend an hour demoing, just look. Once you find one that strikes your fancy
research it online. Check out what owners and various consumer reports say
about it. If it checks out, go back and buy it. If not, look at other
models.

I've looked at dlp, plasma and lcd. All of them have their pro/cons and
their is no "best of all" technology. It's which one you like the most and
can live with. Personally, I liked plasma better than anything out there but
couldn't live the the burn-in issue.
!