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DVD on HDTV

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Anonymous
July 28, 2004 3:37:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Forgive my newbie question, but...
If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image have the
same clarity as the HDTV picture?
If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?

--
Rich Raine
Rich@pantseRaine.com
remove pants for email
www.eRaine.com

More about : dvd hdtv

Anonymous
July 28, 2004 3:37:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Rich Raine" <rich@pantseraine.com> wrote in message
news:AdMNc.11475$3k3.404@trndny02...
> Forgive my newbie question, but...
> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image have
the
> same clarity as the HDTV picture?
> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?

DVD is inherently a lower resolution source and while it is possible to
convert the scan frequencies to HD levels, the "clarity" will likely not be
as good as HD sources. Clarity is a vague term, however, and can vary
greatly depending on the nature of the images being viewed. Some images may
be very "clear" but have very little resolved detail. Other images that are
resolving very fine detail may not appear to have "clarity" because of
grain, lack of contrast, or properties of the display device.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 3:37:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Rich Raine wrote:
> Forgive my newbie question, but...
> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?

DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look great on
HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native resolution of your
fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD resolution.

--
David G.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 3:37:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:zqMNc.2885$yW5.849@lakeread08...
>
> "Rich Raine" <rich@pantseraine.com> wrote in message
> news:AdMNc.11475$3k3.404@trndny02...
> > Forgive my newbie question, but...
> > If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image have
> the
> > same clarity as the HDTV picture?
> > If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>
> DVD is inherently a lower resolution source and while it is possible to
> convert the scan frequencies to HD levels, the "clarity" will likely not
be
> as good as HD sources. Clarity is a vague term, however, and can vary
> greatly depending on the nature of the images being viewed. Some images
may
> be very "clear" but have very little resolved detail. Other images that
are
> resolving very fine detail may not appear to have "clarity" because of
> grain, lack of contrast, or properties of the display device.
>
> Leonard
>
Adding to the above; If you have a progressive scan DVD you can connect to
the component in and following the directions for your DVD enable
progressive scan. The difference (480p instead of 480i) will show with some
DVD media a slightly richer in detail picture. I see freckles in faces
where is was smooth before.

When you truly have a HD over the air picture you will see what Leonard is
saying. There is no comparison.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 2:17:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:

> Rich Raine wrote:
>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
>> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>
> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look great
on
> HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native resolution of your
> fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD resolution.

Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most players
CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it. Progressive scan
players convert it to 480p. With the current state of the DVD art,
though, there is no data on them with enough resolution to do much better
than 480p anyway. When a format is standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be
time to get new players and new DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).

Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching the
same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've had a chance
to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings movies have been on
in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic widescreen. The difference is
noticeable, but not nearly as noticeable as the difference from an SDTV
4:3 letterbox.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 4:42:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Dave Oldridge wrote:
> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
> news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
>
>> Rich Raine wrote:
>>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
>>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
>>> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
>>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>>
>> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look
>> great on HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native resolution
>> of your fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD resolution.
>
> Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most
> players CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it.
> Progressive scan players convert it to 480p. With the current state
> of the DVD art, though, there is no data on them with enough
> resolution to do much better than 480p anyway. When a format is
> standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be time to get new players and new
> DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).
>
> Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
> decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching the
> same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've had a
> chance to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings movies
> have been on in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic widescreen. The
> difference is noticeable, but not nearly as noticeable as the
> difference from an SDTV 4:3 letterbox.

It may be digital, but it's still NTSC. It's just a high quality 480i
source. All DVDs are enocoded in interlaced MPEG2 format. I stand by my
statement.

--
David G.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 9:35:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
news:ndednRMgMN2gHZXcRVn-gw@comcast.com:

> Dave Oldridge wrote:
>> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
>> news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
>>
>>> Rich Raine wrote:
>>>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
>>>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
>>>> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
>>>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>>>
>>> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look
>>> great on HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native resolution
>>> of your fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD resolution.
>>
>> Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most
>> players CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it.
>> Progressive scan players convert it to 480p. With the current state
>> of the DVD art, though, there is no data on them with enough
>> resolution to do much better than 480p anyway. When a format is
>> standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be time to get new players and new
>> DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).
>>
>> Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
>> decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching the
>> same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've had a
>> chance to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings movies
>> have been on in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic widescreen. The
>> difference is noticeable, but not nearly as noticeable as the
>> difference from an SDTV 4:3 letterbox.
>
> It may be digital, but it's still NTSC. It's just a high quality 480i
> source. All DVDs are enocoded in interlaced MPEG2 format. I stand by my
> statement.

This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of considerably
more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC analog signal and
SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage of that, especially if
you use component (or even Svideo) connections. A good progressive scan
player feeding a high quality TV set will typically give a much better
picture than any OTA or cable analog signal. Of course digital
compression does take its toll. I'm advising people who want HDTV to
hold off buying expensive new DVD players until there really is some HDTV
DVD standard, though. The cheap players are almost as good as the better
ones and the HD ones will cost more and play different DVDs that won't
play on the current players, so it's probably better to wait for the real
article...


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
July 29, 2004 3:12:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

If Hollywood has its way, you'll need bifocals long before there's an HD
DVD.


"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns9534E62BF86BFdoldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
> news:ndednRMgMN2gHZXcRVn-gw@comcast.com:
>
> > Dave Oldridge wrote:
> >> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
> >> news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
> >>
> >>> Rich Raine wrote:
> >>>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
> >>>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
> >>>> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
> >>>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
> >>>
> >>> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look
> >>> great on HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native resolution
> >>> of your fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD resolution.
> >>
> >> Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most
> >> players CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it.
> >> Progressive scan players convert it to 480p. With the current state
> >> of the DVD art, though, there is no data on them with enough
> >> resolution to do much better than 480p anyway. When a format is
> >> standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be time to get new players and new
> >> DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).
> >>
> >> Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
> >> decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching the
> >> same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've had a
> >> chance to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings movies
> >> have been on in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic widescreen. The
> >> difference is noticeable, but not nearly as noticeable as the
> >> difference from an SDTV 4:3 letterbox.
> >
> > It may be digital, but it's still NTSC. It's just a high quality 480i
> > source. All DVDs are enocoded in interlaced MPEG2 format. I stand by my
> > statement.
>
> This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
> firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of considerably
> more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC analog signal and
> SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage of that, especially if
> you use component (or even Svideo) connections. A good progressive scan
> player feeding a high quality TV set will typically give a much better
> picture than any OTA or cable analog signal. Of course digital
> compression does take its toll. I'm advising people who want HDTV to
> hold off buying expensive new DVD players until there really is some HDTV
> DVD standard, though. The cheap players are almost as good as the better
> ones and the HD ones will cost more and play different DVDs that won't
> play on the current players, so it's probably better to wait for the real
> article...
>
>
> --
> Dave Oldridge+
> ICQ 1800667
>
> A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
>
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 3:45:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Dave Oldridge wrote:
> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
> news:ndednRMgMN2gHZXcRVn-gw@comcast.com:
>
>> Dave Oldridge wrote:
>>> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
>>> news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
>>>
>>>> Rich Raine wrote:
>>>>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
>>>>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the
>>>>> image have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
>>>>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>>>>
>>>> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look
>>>> great on HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native
>>>> resolution of your fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD
>>>> resolution.
>>>
>>> Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most
>>> players CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it.
>>> Progressive scan players convert it to 480p. With the current state
>>> of the DVD art, though, there is no data on them with enough
>>> resolution to do much better than 480p anyway. When a format is
>>> standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be time to get new players and new
>>> DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).
>>>
>>> Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
>>> decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching
>>> the same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've
>>> had a chance to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings
>>> movies have been on in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic
>>> widescreen. The difference is noticeable, but not nearly as
>>> noticeable as the difference from an SDTV 4:3 letterbox.
>>
>> It may be digital, but it's still NTSC. It's just a high quality
>> 480i source. All DVDs are enocoded in interlaced MPEG2 format. I
>> stand by my statement.
>
> This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
> firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of
> considerably more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC
> analog signal and SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage
> of that, especially if you use component (or even Svideo)
> connections. A good progressive scan player feeding a high quality
> TV set will typically give a much better picture than any OTA or
> cable analog signal. Of course digital compression does take its
> toll. I'm advising people who want HDTV to hold off buying expensive
> new DVD players until there really is some HDTV DVD standard, though.
> The cheap players are almost as good as the better ones and the HD
> ones will cost more and play different DVDs that won't play on the
> current players, so it's probably better to wait for the real
> article...

But S-Video only transmits NTSC. It's like downconverting a HD image
from your STB to NTSC for display over s-video. The PQ looks like a DVD
because the source was so pristine, but it's still NTSC. If DirecTV and
the cable companies reduced compression on their digital stations, the
pictures would look like DVDs. But they all reside in the same standard
and the same resolution, even if some of the images look better than
others.

--
David G.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 10:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
news:c6udnTlYHvwzhpTcRVn-oA@comcast.com:

> Dave Oldridge wrote:
>> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
>> news:ndednRMgMN2gHZXcRVn-gw@comcast.com:
>>
>>> Dave Oldridge wrote:
>>>> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
>>>> news:BoidncRQ1eCaIZrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Rich Raine wrote:
>>>>>> Forgive my newbie question, but...
>>>>>> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the
>>>>>> image have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
>>>>>> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?
>>>>>
>>>>> DVD is just a high-quality 480i NTSC source. While it does look
>>>>> great on HD sets when deinterlaced to 480p (or the native
>>>>> resolution of your fixed-pixel display), it is far short of HD
>>>>> resolution.
>>>>
>>>> Uh, point of order here. DVD is an MPEG2 digital source. Most
>>>> players CONVERT the data on the CD into 480i to display it.
>>>> Progressive scan players convert it to 480p. With the current state
>>>> of the DVD art, though, there is no data on them with enough
>>>> resolution to do much better than 480p anyway. When a format is
>>>> standardized for HD-DVDs, it will be time to get new players and new
>>>> DVD's for your favorite movies (sigh!).
>>>>
>>>> Still, a good DVD with anamorphic widescreen on an HDTV that does a
>>>> decent job of upconverting 480p will be MUCH better than watching
>>>> the same movie in a 4:3 "chopped for TV" version. Recently I've
>>>> had a chance to compare the two, as the first to Lord of the Rings
>>>> movies have been on in HDTV and I have them in anamorphic
>>>> widescreen. The difference is noticeable, but not nearly as
>>>> noticeable as the difference from an SDTV 4:3 letterbox.
>>>
>>> It may be digital, but it's still NTSC. It's just a high quality
>>> 480i source. All DVDs are enocoded in interlaced MPEG2 format. I
>>> stand by my statement.
>>
>> This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
>> firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of
>> considerably more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC
>> analog signal and SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage
>> of that, especially if you use component (or even Svideo)
>> connections. A good progressive scan player feeding a high quality
>> TV set will typically give a much better picture than any OTA or
>> cable analog signal. Of course digital compression does take its
>> toll. I'm advising people who want HDTV to hold off buying expensive
>> new DVD players until there really is some HDTV DVD standard, though.
>> The cheap players are almost as good as the better ones and the HD
>> ones will cost more and play different DVDs that won't play on the
>> current players, so it's probably better to wait for the real
>> article...
>
> But S-Video only transmits NTSC. It's like downconverting a HD image
> from your STB to NTSC for display over s-video. The PQ looks like a DVD

S-Video does transmit an interlaced 480i image, but its resolution can
still exceed OTA analog signals by about double. The reason being that
modern TV's can actually handle video of this bandwidth, which would be
scraped off before ever modulating a VHF or UHF transmitter with it
(necessarily because of government regs about how wide the signal can
be).

> because the source was so pristine, but it's still NTSC. If DirecTV and
> the cable companies reduced compression on their digital stations, the
> pictures would look like DVDs. But they all reside in the same standard
> and the same resolution, even if some of the images look better than
> others.

True, you're not going to get more than 480 lines of usable VERTICAL
resolution (even line doubling only interpolates really and adds no
information). But DVD players and modern TVs, using component or even S-
video can easily exceed the bandwidth of a regular NTSC TV signal which
is supposed to suppress pretty much everything past about 5.8mhz from the
suppressed video carrier of a transmitter. The protocol for display is
the same, but the bandwidth of a wire is not restricted by government
rules for transmitters. That's all I'm really saying here. Depending on
compression, you will get much more bandwidth out of a standard DVD,
especially an anamorphic wide-screen one than you will out of a similar
broadcast on-air.

What you will NOT get is HDTV resolution. Not yet, anyway.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 10:36:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Curmudgeon" <biteme@nospam.com> wrote in
news:at8Oc.987$_e3.957@bignews2.bellsouth.net:

> If Hollywood has its way, you'll need bifocals long before there's an
> HD DVD.

Hollywood is not the only place to make films these days.
If the demand is there, they will either meet it or someone else will.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:23:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Curmudgeon" <biteme@nospam.com> wrote:

>If Hollywood has its way, you'll need bifocals long before there's an HD
>DVD.

Yeah, but they would rather have sold their mothers down the river
than see DVD burners in computers --
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 7:18:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Rich Raine" <rich@pantseraine.com> wrote in
news:AdMNc.11475$3k3.404@trndny02:

> Forgive my newbie question, but...
> If I have a HDTV and I view a DVD with my DVD player does the image
> have the same clarity as the HDTV picture?
> If not is there anyway to view a DVD with HDTV clarity?

Incidentally, I saw a news blurb today that said that both NEC and one
other company are planning to release true HDTV capable DVD players next
year.


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
August 5, 2004 1:15:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:35:57 GMT, Dave Oldridge
>
>This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
>firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of considerably
>more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC analog signal and
>SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage of that, especially if
>you use component (or even Svideo) connections. A good progressive scan
>player feeding a high quality TV set will typically give a much better
>picture than any OTA or cable analog signal. Of course digital
>compression does take its toll. I'm advising people who want HDTV to
>hold off buying expensive new DVD players until there really is some HDTV
>DVD standard, though. The cheap players are almost as good as the better
>ones and the HD ones will cost more and play different DVDs that won't
>play on the current players, so it's probably better to wait for the real
>article...


we have a samsung hd-931. although not true hd,, the upconversion
outputted through a dvi connection to our 42" plasma is impressive to
us. looking forward to the real thing (if i live that long :-) )
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 12:55:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

hound <hound@hound.net> wrote in
news:85k2h0l61a0qt08sibmv0jug883mj51lp7@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:35:57 GMT, Dave Oldridge
>>
>>This is incorrect. It's not NTSC until it's turned into 480i by the
>>firmware in the DVD player. Most DVD players are capable of
>>considerably more bandwidth than that occupied by a standard NTSC
>>analog signal and SOME TVs, especially HDTV sets, can take advantage
>>of that, especially if you use component (or even Svideo) connections.
>> A good progressive scan player feeding a high quality TV set will
>>typically give a much better picture than any OTA or cable analog
>>signal. Of course digital compression does take its toll. I'm
>>advising people who want HDTV to hold off buying expensive new DVD
>>players until there really is some HDTV DVD standard, though. The
>>cheap players are almost as good as the better ones and the HD ones
>>will cost more and play different DVDs that won't play on the current
>>players, so it's probably better to wait for the real article...
>
>
> we have a samsung hd-931. although not true hd,, the upconversion
> outputted through a dvi connection to our 42" plasma is impressive to
> us. looking forward to the real thing (if i live that long :-) )

Heh-heh. That upconversion is probably the same as in my Samsung Tantus
HDTV set. It's only a 27" Dynaflat 4:3 screen (but with 1080i
capability). For someone who watches TV from a distance just beyond
where you can see the actual dots on the tube, that's not much of a
problem.

Maybe if I get really rich and they come down in price, I'll get one of
the DLP machines eventually.

Samsung really does have some decent upconversion technology.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
!