CPU Cooler for Noise Reduction?

[tcn]

Hi all,

Was wondering if anybody would be able to advise on whether it might be worth purchasing a new CPU cooler just for the purpose of making my machine quieter?

I built my system a couple of weeks ago. I'll give the full specs for reference:

Antec Solo Case ("Ultra Quiet")
Antec NeoHE 500W PSU
Gigabyte 965P-DS4 (rev 1.0)
Core 2 Duo E6600
Corsair TWIN2x2048-6400 (DDR2-800, 2x1GB, CAS5)
MSI GeForce 7900GTO 512MB
2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB drives running in RAID-0 configuration
Hauppauge WinTV Nova-T PCI
Philips 190CW 19 inch Widescreen LCD 5ms

On the whole it runs very quietly, but I'd really like to make the machine as silent as possible. I can't really hear any noise from the PSU, but there is the noise of some fan(s) that's apparent during usage. The only other fans in the system are a large 120mm fan mounted at the back of the case, running on its lowest speed, the fan on the GPU (which speeds up and down depending on load) and the CPU cooler (which is the stock Core 2 Duo cooler and also alters speed depending on load). I was wondering if a Zalman cooler to replace this would be likely to reduce the noise level any further (I've read that they are very quiet). Is the CPU fan likely to be the largest noisemaker?

I don't plan to do any overclocking for the timebeing (as much as I'd like to get the extra performance, the idea of voiding my warranty is too scary), so (for now at least), the purpose would be purely to reduce noise. Is it worth it? Anybody got any experience of how quiet or otherwise these are? Any alternative suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[GigabyteRules]

u cant distroy a core 2 if u keep voltage under 1.4, so voiding ur warrenty is just a silly excuss not to over clock just get a great hsf and overclock, also is ur gfx card silent?

 

[tcn]

Well, it's not so much that I'm worried that the overclocking will kill the processor. More that if the processor were to fail anyway (unlikely, but suppose it was a bad one), if I'd overclocked it I wouldn't have any comeback. I always wonder how they'd know, of course...

I'm struggling to tell how quiet the graphics is. Certainly when it's taxed hard, I can hear the fan on it spin up faster (at least I'm pretty sure it's that fan and not the CPU fan), but as for basic running, it's hard to tell where the noise is coming from. I'll probably take the cover off later today and see if I can figure out what noise is coming from where, but I just thought I'd post here to see what people thought about the differences between the standard CPU fan and others.

 

[GigabyteRules]

they know u overclocked it when u change the voltage and it triggers a short in the cpu and thats how they tell or sumfin along those lines

 

[sruane]

The noise from your PSU fans will resonate through the case and sound like its coming from somewhere else. Try mounting your PSU on a rubber grommet made for this purpose.

Also - I would eschew advice from someone who is plainly unable to write in English.

 

[Fedor]

Yes, of course, take off the cover and try to tell. GPU fans vary quite a lot in their level of noise, so its hard to compare to the stock C2D fan.

If you really wanna make it quiet, change both the CPU and the GPU. An example would be this for GPU:
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/vga2.php?idx=91
and a Zalman for the CPU as you say (like 9500 or even better 9700 model)

 

[tcn]

they know u overclocked it when u change the voltage and it triggers a short in the cpu and thats how they tell or sumfin along those lines

According to the specs, the CPU is designed to run up to 1.3525V anyway, so as long as you stay within that range, there's nothing wrong with the voltage used.

The noise from your PSU fans will resonate through the case and sound like its coming from somewhere else. Try mounting your PSU on a rubber grommet made for this purpose.

Interesting thought - I'll look into it. However, I'm inclined to believe that the PSU is not a major culprit since many reviews I read before buying it commented on how silent it was (one of the things that encouraged me to buy it).

If you really wanna make it quiet, change both the CPU and the GPU

I have to confess that the idea of changing the cooler is rather daunting and also likely to invalidate my warranty (and we've already established how touchy I am about those! )

I'm not in the mood for getting the case out and taking it to bits tonight, but I will do some diagnosing in that area soon.

Edit: oh, the other thing I'll have to weigh up is what will and won't actually fit! (in terms of CPU coolers)

 

[Fedor]

You don't need to take it apart, just open it up whilst its running.

As for invalidating your warranty with an after-market cooler, you can't, especially with the cpu. There is no way for them to know what cooler you run. The graphics cooling is a little more complicated, but even if your card were to die you could just put the stock cooler back on and send it in. No trouble (I've had to do that once, no problems).

 

[tcn]

You misunderstand me. When I say "take it to bits", I just mean "move all the stuff that's in the way and pull it out to where I can access it and then remove the cover".

About the cooler, I didn't make myself clear either. I've got no issue with changing the CPU cooler - afterall, I fitted the stock one to it during installation. It's the GPU that concerns me more since it arrived pre-attached and it's unknown territory as to how easy it would be to remove and also how effective a new cooler would be compared to the stock one - according to a review I read, the stock 7900 GTO/GTX cooler is a "true engineering marvel". It also says it's "efficient and quiet", though I suppose everything is relative.

Sorry for not making myself clear anyway.

 

[Fedor]

Thats no problem, maybe I misunderstood.

The Arctic Cooling company started by making fantastic revolutionary coolers for GPUs, so they are really the best of the best. All of the GPU heatsinks you see nowadays where the air is blown directly out of the case - their idea! Many card makers actually buy coolers from them and then sell them on their cards (ie it comes as the stock one). Could I see the article that you quote regarding your GPU card and fan?

 

[Habber]

If you can get your hands on any Noctua fans they will definetly reduce noise by a good margin. Ofcourse you need to mount it on some sort of heatsink other than the stock one. For my part i felt that the C2D stock cooler was to loud when it got abocve 60% Max RPM. So i shifted to the Noctua solution and the temps dropped around 12-15 degrees which i think is alot. The Fan i so silent that i cant even hear it when its running at a 100% speed when i put ear next to the open cabinet. I literally need to stick my ear almost into the fan to be able to hear it rotating. The fans are also great for mounting inside the cabinet cause they move alot of air without making a sound.

anyways if you need silence noctua it is.

 

[Mondoman]

Definitely open up your case to pin down where the noise that is bugging you is coming from. I'd also go check out the various "Silent PC" type websites, as they specifically rate various components for noise.
At the least, you may want to get a fan controller to be able to manually adjust the speeds of the various fans. First, though, you need to figure out how to monitor the various temps in your system, to make sure you don't turn the fan(s) down too low.
In general, using a larger-diameter fan at a lower rpm will reduce noise while maintaining airflow. There are also certain fans that a quieter than others -- this is where the specialty sites I mentioned come in really handy, as they are serious about noise. Around here, one person's "quiet" is another person's rock concert.

 

[geofelt]

I suspect that you are good as is. I have a similar system(e6600, solo case, 8800gts), and it is hard to tell where the noise(what little there is) is coming from. I took a long cardboard tube from some wrapping paper, and used it to listen to the sounds from several components. No one thing jumped out. On startup, I hear an increase, but I think it is the VGA fan, Since I do not have a cooling problem, I might try undervolting some fans with a Zalmate to see if it makes a difference. The 7900gto cooling approach exhausts the heat out the back of the case, like the 8800gts. I like that. If you get a vga cooler that gets the heat off the vga card more efficiently, but does not exhaust it, then you are simply transferring the problem to the cpu cooler or the PSU. The stock intel cooler is pretty good, and reasonably quiet. I use a scythe ninja + with a 120mm constant slow speed fan. I am not certain that it was necessary, but I think a constant fan speed is less noticeable that a variable one. If you want a truly quiet system, research the zalman reserator. Also there is a good forum for quiet computing at silentpcreview.com.

 

[tcn]

The Arctic Cooling company started by making fantastic revolutionary coolers for GPUs, so they are really the best of the best. All of the GPU heatsinks you see nowadays where the air is blown directly out of the case - their idea! Many card makers actually buy coolers from them and then sell them on their cards (ie it comes as the stock one). Could I see the article that you quote regarding your GPU card and fan?

Sure. If you follow the link back to the previous article on a 7900GTX, you find that the reviewer refers back to another article (again!) on the 7800GTX, which is where the two quotes I listed came from.

The interesting thing I find about the GPU cooler is that whilst the card "idles" (because with Vista I suppose it's always doing something) at 42C and runs at load at around 60-65C (as far as I remember), I can never feel any hot air coming out of the vent at the back at all, even when it's been working hard for a long time.

anyways if you need silence noctua it is.

Thanks for the suggestion: I'll look into it.

Definitely open up your case to pin down where the noise that is bugging you is coming from. I'd also go check out the various "Silent PC" type websites, as they specifically rate various components for noise.
At the least, you may want to get a fan controller to be able to manually adjust the speeds of the various fans. First, though, you need to figure out how to monitor the various temps in your system, to make sure you don't turn the fan(s) down too low.
In general, using a larger-diameter fan at a lower rpm will reduce noise while maintaining airflow. There are also certain fans that a quieter than others -- this is where the specialty sites I mentioned come in really handy, as they are serious about noise.

I'm not keen on turning fans down, since (the CPU at least) is a little warmer than I'd like it to be anyway. The case fan already has a speed switch and is at lowest speed. If you have any particular specialist sites that you can recommend, that would be great.

I suspect that you are good as is. I have a similar system(e6600, solo case, 8800gts), and it is hard to tell where the noise(what little there is) is coming from. I took a long cardboard tube from some wrapping paper, and used it to listen to the sounds from several components. No one thing jumped out. On startup, I hear an increase, but I think it is the VGA fan, Since I do not have a cooling problem, I might try undervolting some fans with a Zalmate to see if it makes a difference. The 7900gto cooling approach exhausts the heat out the back of the case, like the 8800gts. I like that. If you get a vga cooler that gets the heat off the vga card more efficiently, but does not exhaust it, then you are simply transferring the problem to the cpu cooler or the PSU. The stock intel cooler is pretty good, and reasonably quiet. I use a scythe ninja + with a 120mm constant slow speed fan. I am not certain that it was necessary, but I think a constant fan speed is less noticeable that a variable one. If you want a truly quiet system, research the zalman reserator. Also there is a good forum for quiet computing at silentpcreview.com.

Thanks for the suggestions (particularly the website which I will look at later today). I do wonder whether I'm overdoing it since the computer is the quietest I've had to date as it is - I'd just like to make it as silent as possible (in an ideal world, totally so, but that's not going to happen). I know what you mean about a noise on startup - something revs right up for about a second immediately after poweron.

Thanks for all the suggestions people. Keep them coming, and I'll update on my research as I get it done.

 

[Fedor]

Thanks for providing the link. Yeah that type of heatsink for the GPU is like the Arctic Cooling designs anyway, so I don't feel that you will benefit in changing it.

Assuming that is quiet, all you have left is the CPU hsf and case fans. You mentioned that the case fan and that it's on low speed. Didn't you mean to say fans? Or do you only have one case fan? I would have thought that surely you must have at least one intake and one exhaust... But regarding them, tell me their sizes (like 8cm or 9.2cm or 120cm). It may be wise to replace them as well, with fans like the Noctua that was mentioned, although there are other great silent fans too. Also very important is the amount of vibration they make, because as someone mentioned about the PSU fan, its actually true for all fans - they can resonate with the case and create more noise.

Finishing up, yes I say go for it and change the CPU hsf. The Zalman is a great example of a quiet cooler, but there are alternatives as well, such as the Scythe Ninja.

 

[tcn]

Yes, there's only one case fan by default (though there's the facility to install more of them). It's a 120mm Antec TriCool fan and has (as the name suggests) three speed settings, the default being the lowest (which is what the manual recommends to keep things quiet). On the higher settings, the noise is quite noticeable, but it's pretty quiet on the low setting. You can see all the information on my case here, anyway. I would have thought that given it's already a 120mm fan, I'm unlikely to be able to get anything quieter. Opinions? It's looking like the only area that I can really improve in is the CPU fan.

Of course, the other option that I'm weighing up is the very simple one of moving the case from on the desk to under the desk and that might be sufficient to make it seem quiet enough for me (since I really am pushing things trying to make this quieter than it already is). It's just not a particularly convenient option with my desk the way it is.

 

[joedastudd]

If you want the quietest CPU Heastsink and fan I would look into the Thermalright Ultra 120 and the Scythe Ninja Plus. They are both tower coolers so motherboard/case size maybe an issue.
The Ultra 120 doesnt come with a fan, but get a Noctua 120mm fan and you will have of the quietest CPU cooler around.

 

[Fedor]

Right, well from the link you gave for your case, it kinda seems like you have no active intake at all. Thats not great case-flow wise, but if temps are alright then you are alright. As for the 120mm Antec Tricool fan, its decent yup. You can get a quieter one but I'd put good money on the fact that the Tricool isnt the fan thats creating noise at the moment anyway.

A relatively complete set of choices for quiet performance heatsinks for the cpu I'd say is:
Zalman CNPS9700
Noctua NH-U12F (rather than just all the Noctua fans everyone is advertising, they have made a pretty great heatsink as well, the F model comes with their 120mm fan too)
Thermalright Ultra 120
Scythe Ninja-PLUS Rev B (latest model afaik)

I agree with joedastudd that for the heatsinks that don't come with a fan, like the Ultra 120 and Ninja, the Noctua fan would be a great choice for quiet computing.

 

[tcn]

You're correct in that there is no active intake, but I don't think the temperatures are problematic. The "system" temperature (some sensor on the MB - not sure which) is usually about 40C (regardless of what's going on) and the CPU idles at 40-45 and under maximum load is about 60-65.

Thanks for the suggestions from both of you. I still haven't found sufficient time/energy to properly research everything, but I will get around to it at some point.

 

[tcn]

Ok, I've had the case open and been doing some experimenting and it's been interesting...:

Firstly, it's nigh-on impossible to tell what's making how much sound. I am reasonably convinced that most of the sound is from the CPU cooler, however. I tried disconnecting the 120mm fan at the back and couldn't tell the difference in sound. Whether that would be the same with the cover on, I don't know. I did have a nasty shock (not in the electric sense!) while unplugging the fan. It connects via a molex connector, with an input and an output (to connect onto another device). However, I've just had it hanging loose. Turned out that there was a pin sticking out of the edge of the other end of the connector which shorted with the case as I disconnected it (generated a visible spark). Fortunately, the PSU's overcurrent protection immediately jumped in and everything was fine. I've removed the danger now by connecting that fan to the same molex connector powering one of the optical drives and removing the surplus molex connectors from the case altogether (it's a modular PSU).


One of the most frustrating things about the sound being made from the case is the way that the CPU fan is constantly adjusting it's speed. To rectify this, I thought I'd have a play with the fan settings in the BIOS. There are two options: "Smart Fan Control Option" and "Smart Fan Control Method". The options for the first are "Auto" (default), "Intel QST", "Legacy" and "Disable". Under the second is "Auto" (default), "Voltage" and "PWM" - the MB manual says these second lot of settings are dependent on whether you use a 3-pin connector CPU fan or a 4-pin connector. I thought I'd try changing to the "Intel QST" option and sure enough the fan speed became much more constant (and slightly lower: around 1000RPM). However, some weird things happened. Firstly, when I saved the BIOS settings, a message came up about waiting while it applied fan settings before a "hard reset". This lasted about 5 seconds, after which the machine, true to its word, completely turned off for a couple of seconds (rather than the usual BIOS soft reset) and then powered back up. There was then a wait of approximately 10 more seconds before the thing came to life again and began to boot.

I thought this would be the end of the weirdness, but then when Windows was finished loading, it decided it wanted to install some new hardware: "Simple PCI Communications Device" or words to that effect. I also noticed that the idle temperatures seemed about 5 degrees warmer than normal (though I'm beginning to question the reliability of my measure and am now thinking of retesting it). Anyway, I switched back in the end.

One thing that does frustrate me is that there's seemingly no reliable way to measure the CPU temperature - every single application I own gives a different figure (and the BIOS another figure again).

Anyway, this has gone on a bit long, so I'll get back to the question in hand. One final concern I have about a new CPU cooler is whether it'll actually fit! A picture of the inside of my machine: (an old pic, so you can see the molex/fan thing in the bottom left)

Sorry that this isn't particularly easy to see it on, but you can see that there's a Gigabyte heat-pipe thing all around the CPU cooler as it is, not leaving a lot of room. My understanding is that the fans people have been recommending are, on the whole, substantially bigger than my existing one.

Sorry to have gone on so long... :roll:

Oh, P.S. I'm still looking at that SilentPCReview site. There's a lot of useful information on it: thanks!

 

[Fedor]

Just FYI, yes your temps are considerably higher than most C2Ds. That is definitely because not just you have poor airflow, but virtually no directed airflow through your case to speak of. I'm not aiming to alarm you by the way, those temps aren't anywhere near being harmful for your CPU (I've been running a Prescott 3.4Ghz at about 69-74 degrees on load 24/7 for about 2 years now). You can tell the airflow is bad even from the fact that your case temp is almost your idle CPU temp!

As for your changing of the fan speed stuff in the BIOS, sorry can't comment, no experience! But I would change it back, cause as you say the temps are higher now (and you mentioned the fan is slower, so that makes sense).

When I needed to figure out which fans were making the most noise in my computer, I stopped each one individually for just a few seconds (using an eraser and slowly applying pressure to the middle of the fan - not the blades - until it slowed and stopped).

I started looking at the compatibility of your motherboard with the coolers and realised that your motherboard, similar to the one in Thermalright's example, might have a back plate that you will need to remove, which is a bit of a pain:
http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_faq_motherboard_Cooler_Plate_Removal.htm
So I looked up your mobo, and I don't think yours has that, so you should be fine. The good news is if you read that page from Thermalright it says that the Ultra 120 fits just fine on that board except for the backplate business, but what I'm pointing out is that the heatsinks on the motherboard look exactly like yours and if they are the Ultra 120 should fit on yours too.
Then I looked at the Scythe cooler:
http://www.scythe.co.jp/en/cooler/SCNJ1000.htm
http://www.scythe.co.jp/en/cooler/manual/SCNJ1000.pdf
Couldn't really figure out definitively if it will fit on your motherboard...
And Noctua says your board is compatible for sure:
http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_nh_u12f&lng=en
And Zalman doesn't say anything concrete:
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/eng_index.asp (sorry for no direct link, their website is structured that way)
However, the actual heatsink part starts quite high up and I think it would clear your heatsinks.

Long story short, Thermalright is a go, as is Noctua. For Scythe and Zalman, a little more research needs to be done but I'm leaving that to you (personally it looks like they would fit).

Good luck!

 

[Mondoman]

...but you can see that there's a Gigabyte heat-pipe thing all around the CPU cooler as it is, not leaving a lot of room. ...

Now that you've shown us your MB, one consideration to mention is that most aftermarket CPU coolers do not blow air down toward the MB and out in all directions like the OEM Intel and the various "flower-style" coolers. This airflow cools adjacent components and is a secondary function of the CPU cooler. Some MBs are more sensitive to the removal of this cooling flow than are others; since yours has two radiators right by the CPU specifically designed to take advantage of this OEM CPU cooler airflow, I'd be very careful in choosing a stock cooler replacement.

 

[geofelt]

Your wiring is a mess! There is room to tuck the power cables away, and out of the airflow. This will improve your cooling, and possibly even reduce the sound. The front of the case opens for the air filters, and there is room for 2 92mm fans. Get slow turning ones, you don't need much. For a few bucks, you can get a couple of zalman fanmate plus devices which let you adjust your fan speeds. The scythe ninja plus is a big cooler with widely separated fins. This bigger fin separation is what makes it work with slow turning 120mm fans. Also, it directs the air towards the rear, and outside the case. It will fit in the solo case.
If you can put the case on the floor, next to the desk, it will seem much quieter. Try this before anything else. I have put mine on my subwoofer box, and the dvd drawer is now at desktop height.

 

[Fedor]

Thank you, I got so carried away with the research that I forgot to mention what you just did (referring to Mondoman). That was the whole reason I criticised his lack of case flow at the start, cause I was gonna bring up what you just did. With a cooler not blowing on those components, the case temp could go up even more.

The one redeeming thing about his motherboard is that generally speaking, you mount the HSF such that the fan blows air through the fins and then in the direction of the exhaust. This means that it will blow over that one area of motherboard heatsinks that is between the cpu socket and the exhaust fan. And keeping in mind that the whole cooling apparatus on the motherboard is linked via heatpipe, perhaps cooling that one area would be enough.

In your shoes, I'd get myself one of the coolers we recommended, and also a silent 92mm fan (or two - but be sure to get low vibration ones as opposed to just quiet ones) to stick in as an intake if you notice your case temps have increased.

 

[Mobius]

Pssive CPU cooler is what you want.

I'll never install another active CPU cooler - EVER. They're crap. All of them.

Passive is reliable, 100% silent, and won't EVER clog up with dust.