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Bad HDTV reception

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Anonymous
August 4, 2004 2:58:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a DVD
player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels whether
they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary all
the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which case
the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I use
over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in a
condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is less
than stellar.

Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?
This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
the money I did.

More about : bad hdtv reception

Anonymous
August 4, 2004 2:58:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jay A wrote:
>
> I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a DVD
> player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels whether
> they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary all
> the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which case
> the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I use
> over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in a
> condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is less
> than stellar.
>
> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?


No, but more info from your surroundings & equipment will Help...

What is your 5 or 9 Digit ZIP Code.... ? HDTV Aiming Directions.

What type of Antenna did you use for OTA? Hope not a Terk...

How many miles are you from the HDTV Towers?

Is your home on the 'correct' side of the building....?
related to HDTV Tower direction & indoor antenna.

What Cable Co do you use?



> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
> the money I did.
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 7:56:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

You have way too much time on your hands :) 

Yes, I can actually see Mt. Wilson from my neighborhood. You located me
about a mile or so from my actual location. Can you do my one favor? I have
yet to find a site which states where the HD channels in this area are...VHF
or UHF. I THINK they are all UHF but do you know? I assume that just because
stations here such as CBS, NBC etc broadcast normally on VHF, that this has
nothing to do with where they broadcast HDTV, correct??

Thanks
Related resources
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 7:56:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jay A wrote:
>
> You have way too much time on your hands :) 
>
> Yes, I can actually see Mt. Wilson from my neighborhood. You located me
> about a mile or so from my actual location. Can you do my one favor? I have
> yet to find a site which states where the HD channels in this area are...VHF
> or UHF. I THINK they are all UHF but do you know? I assume that just because
> stations here such as CBS, NBC etc broadcast normally on VHF, that this has
> nothing to do with where they broadcast HDTV, correct??
>
> Thanks


Jay:

As a retired Engr... I have HD time...

Yes, all your DTV stations are UHF....

Try http://www.antennaweb.org & enter your

5 or 9 Digit ZIP Code.... only... 9 is on the money..

Zap the DTV channels only... Read LAST chan Column....

Zap Neighborhood the Map option if you wish...
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 7:56:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jay A wrote:
>
> You have way too much time on your hands :) 
>
> Yes, I can actually see Mt. Wilson from my neighborhood. You located me
> about a mile or so from my actual location. Can you do my one favor? I have
> yet to find a site which states where the HD channels in this area are...VHF
> or UHF. I THINK they are all UHF but do you know? I assume that just because
> stations here such as CBS, NBC etc broadcast normally on VHF, that this has
> nothing to do with where they broadcast HDTV, correct??
>
> Thanks


Analog Tower vs Digital Tower siting Location.........

With DTV moved pretty far along now.... I believe

an Analog Transmitter & Digital Transmitter can be

on the same tower if the Structure 'can bear the weight'...

Many Towers have to be reinforced IF not designed for

added loads.. More Common is two or 3 new Digital stations

building a new common DTV Tower and sharing the Tower cost....

Therefore when Analog TV shuts down... The Analog tower

can be removed/scrapped... Effectively, three

small towers are replaced by one joint & newly designed..


Another fine HDTV Channel Web site...

http://www.hdtvpub.com AND enter your 5 digit ZIP Code..

Read about both OTA Reception & Cable HD availability...
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 11:11:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jay A" <cajay@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AMUPc.1314$P16.246@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
> I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a
DVD
> player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels
whether
> they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary
all
> the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which
case
> the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I
use
> over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in a
> condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is less
> than stellar.
>
> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work
properly?
> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
> the money I did.
>
Digital TV does not require as great a signal to noise ratio for a perfect
picture. A very snowy picture on an analog tv will translate to a perfect
picture on a digital. BUT ghosts, or co-channel (another station on the
same freq skipping in), or too much gain causing harmonic distortion to the
signal can cause a dropout in the picture. While these problems are easy to
see/diagnose and fix on an analog TV, you don't know what problem you have
on a digital TV as it's a perfect picture or it drops out.

For those stations that co-broadcast on frequencies next to each other you
can tune to the analog signal and SEE the problem, then fix it.
Unfortunately most of the time a channel like 3 in analog is something like
52 for the digital channel and is mapped to 3-1 in your TV. That much
difference in freq makes a huge difference in how the signal acts.

For your problem where;" Signal strength will vary all the way from about 80
(out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which case
the video will pixelate and be lost." That sounds like either co-channel or
ghosts. Amplified is not always better, less may be better as the ghost is
less too. The ghost signal must be below the detection threshold of the
receiver.

For antenna amplifiers a must is a variable attenuation control. This will
allow you to fine tune in the case of ghosts. If reducing the gain doesn't
help then a very directional antenna is needed. Rabbit ears have very
little directionality.
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 8:41:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dennis Mayer" <Polaris1@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:41105C83.17241C36@execpc.com...
> Got 16.9 miles as crow flies and did a Topo
> contour graph of the Straight line.....

I am curious how you did this. Are there tools out there I can use? I have
sort of been able to do it with 3Dem. It is a little tricky. I am looking
for something a little easier. If I sent you my coordinates can you do it
easily for me and Mt Sutro?

Brad Houser
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 9:59:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:58:40 GMT, "Jay A" <cajay@verizon.net> wrote:

I heard the 5th generation HD tuners from LG are supposed to help a
great deal with the multipath problem. They should be available pretty
soon from what I understand. But I have no idea exactly when or what
the model numbers may be.

>I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a DVD
>player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels whether
>they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary all
>the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which case
>the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I use
>over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in a
>condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is less
>than stellar.
>
>Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?
>This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
>the money I did.
>
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 12:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Brad Houser wrote:
>
> "Dennis Mayer" <Polaris1@execpc.com> wrote in message
> news:41105C83.17241C36@execpc.com...
> > Got 16.9 miles as crow flies and did a Topo
> > contour graph of the Straight line.....
>
> I am curious how you did this. Are there tools out there I can use? I have
> sort of been able to do it with 3Dem. It is a little tricky. I am looking
> for something a little easier. If I sent you my coordinates can you do it
> easily for me and Mt Sutro?
>
> Brad Houser


Yes I Can... and I'll Ship you the .JPG map results & distance &

Angle.... Give me your home 9 digit Zip Code...
OR Five Digit ZIP Code for less accuracy...

and rough distance & Direction from home to Mt S Towers..


It's all done with Garmin GPS Topo maps on the PC,
a straight line route (home to tower), using
Garmin Mapsource software contour/Topo plotting.
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 11:53:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thanks for all the responses...now a related question...

When I have my cable installation (using Adelphia Cable) instead of over the
air antenna, I see the same problem with NBC. The signal is not
consistent...it will vary between about 85 percent and then down to about 10
percent or so. Lots of pixelation on this station, while the others (FOX,
ABC, PBS seem to come through just fine). The sig strength meter on my LG
receiver varies too when NBC is on.

So the question is, is this an indication that Adelphia is just not picking
up NBC well, or is the problem someplace in my wiring? I'd think that if
Adelphia is coming through ok on other channels then it's not a wiring
issue...so, does a sig strength meter on a customer's receiver tell you when
the station is just not being picked up correctly at the cable company's
end?
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 11:53:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

A day later, and I think I have solved my reception problems. It seems that
the best thing I did, and those of you out there having reception problems
with indoor antennae may want to keep this in mind, was to get the antenna
as high up as possible. I now have it sitting on the top shelf inside a
closet, about 7 feet off the floor, away from view, with a 20 foot cable
running from it to the receiver. When I first hooked up my system the
antenna was sitting at about waist level. Reception is very good now and I
even pick up one station which is located approx. 15 degrees away from the
direction in which most all the other stations in the area are coming from.
Before raising the antenna up I was unable to get that station at the same
time as the others...I had to rotate the antenna.
August 6, 2004 2:44:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jay A" <cajay@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:AMUPc.1314$P16.246@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
> I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a
DVD
> player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels
whether
> they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary
all
> the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which
case
> the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I
use
> over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in a
> condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is less
> than stellar.
>
> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work
properly?
> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
> the money I did.
>
Before you do anything drastic, try something simple. Try an UNAMPLIFIED
UHF antenna, even ifs its just a simple bowtie antenna taped to a window,
or otherwise oriented properly.
From experience, the amplifiers, both indoor and outdoor, do some strange
things to HD signals.
Just try it, and see what happens.

Deke
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 10:27:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Raising the indoor antenna did the trick at my home as well.

"Jay A" <cajay@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:D NGQc.1648$721.884@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> A day later, and I think I have solved my reception problems. It seems
that
> the best thing I did, and those of you out there having reception problems
> with indoor antennae may want to keep this in mind, was to get the antenna
> as high up as possible. I now have it sitting on the top shelf inside a
> closet, about 7 feet off the floor, away from view, with a 20 foot cable
> running from it to the receiver. When I first hooked up my system the
> antenna was sitting at about waist level. Reception is very good now and I
> even pick up one station which is located approx. 15 degrees away from the
> direction in which most all the other stations in the area are coming
from.
> Before raising the antenna up I was unable to get that station at the same
> time as the others...I had to rotate the antenna.
>
>
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 12:09:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Been there, done that...unamplified gives me basically no reception at all.


"Deke" <denkell@starband.com> wrote in message
news:FHNQc.552$qB1.399@fe25.usenetserver.com...
>
> "Jay A" <cajay@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:AMUPc.1314$P16.246@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
> > I just installed an HDTV system using an LG receiver (ATSC, QAMM, plus a
> DVD
> > player) but am having trouble holding reception on the HDTV channels
> whether
> > they be from over the air broadcasts or cable. Signal strenth will vary
> all
> > the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent to about 5 percent, in which
> case
> > the video will pixelate and be lost. Again, it doesn't matter whether I
> use
> > over the air or cable. I AM using an indoor amplified antenna (I live in
a
> > condo and cannot install anything outside) and my cable reception is
less
> > than stellar.
> >
> > Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work
> properly?
> > This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I
spent
> > the money I did.
> >
> Before you do anything drastic, try something simple. Try an UNAMPLIFIED
> UHF antenna, even ifs its just a simple bowtie antenna taped to a window,
> or otherwise oriented properly.
> From experience, the amplifiers, both indoor and outdoor, do some strange
> things to HD signals.
> Just try it, and see what happens.
>
> Deke
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 3:06:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
>the money I did.
>

Sorry to say this..but you should of done some research before you plonked out
the dough.
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 3:29:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Did you read the entire thread, or just respond to my first post?

BTW, I agree with you, but read the entire thread ok?


"Harri85274" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040806190616.16562.00001882@mb-m22.aol.com...
> >This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I
spent
> >the money I did.
> >
>
> Sorry to say this..but you should of done some research before you plonked
out
> the dough.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 9:35:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Jay A wrote:
> .... Signal strenth will vary all the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent
> to about 5 percent, in which case the video will pixelate and be lost. ...
>
> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?
> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
> the money I did.

I find that the signal threshold needs to be about "40" for a picture to be
consistently there without breakup. 33-39 will offer a decoding of the
transmission, but with unviewable pixellation and sound gaps.

This same number seems to be true for MPEG2-DVB satellite signals as well as
terrestial DTV.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 9:35:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 05:35:51 GMT, "D. Stussy"
<kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:

>On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Jay A wrote:
>> .... Signal strenth will vary all the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent
>> to about 5 percent, in which case the video will pixelate and be lost. ...
>>
>> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?
>> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
>> the money I did.
>
>I find that the signal threshold needs to be about "40" for a picture to be
>consistently there without breakup. 33-39 will offer a decoding of the
>transmission, but with unviewable pixellation and sound gaps.
>
>This same number seems to be true for MPEG2-DVB satellite signals as well as
>terrestial DTV.

If you are talking about a off-air HD signal. You may be fading and
need to go higher. Make sure your antenna is pointed correctly. It
seems HDTV requires a good signal. Seems its either on or off.
Anything questionable will partially or completely freeze the picture.
I have had better luck aiming the antenna using a weak analog station
that's slightly snowy.

hdtvfan
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 12:13:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, hdtvfan wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 05:35:51 GMT, "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
> >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Jay A wrote:
> >> .... Signal strenth will vary all the way from about 80 (out of 100) percent
> >> to about 5 percent, in which case the video will pixelate and be lost. ...
> >>
> >> Does HDTV really require a near perfect reception in order to work properly?
> >> This is very frustrating and I am beginning to wonder why on earth I spent
> >> the money I did.
> >
> >I find that the signal threshold needs to be about "40" for a picture to be
> >consistently there without breakup. 33-39 will offer a decoding of the
> >transmission, but with unviewable pixellation and sound gaps.
> >
> >This same number seems to be true for MPEG2-DVB satellite signals as well as
> >terrestial DTV.
>
> If you are talking about a off-air HD signal. You may be fading and
> need to go higher. Make sure your antenna is pointed correctly. It
> seems HDTV requires a good signal. Seems its either on or off.
> Anything questionable will partially or completely freeze the picture.
> I have had better luck aiming the antenna using a weak analog station
> that's slightly snowy.

Yes, my comments were addressing OTA signals (as well as satellite received FTA
signals). A signal strength of "40" appears to be the "magic" threshold.
!