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AMD R600 Pushed to Q2?

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February 21, 2007 11:06:13 AM

The Inq has an article claiming a call from AMD saying that R600 will now not make this quarter, hence missing their own 'by end of March' promises...

Ouch.

http://www.the-inquirer.com/default.aspx?article=37768

More about : amd r600 pushed

February 21, 2007 11:22:19 AM

Since video cards is in mass production atm, probably this related to full WHQL drivers support. OR maybe some silicon bug found at the last moment and they are working on the fix now. Remember buged first batch of 8800?
February 21, 2007 11:26:23 AM

Disappointing news if true. My entire system build is waiting for the release of this card (if bench marks are good), another delay means low quality settings on my games for a bit longer. :( 
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a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2007 11:38:17 AM

Yeah but the bug was a not in the die itself and only for a batch.

I doubt they actually have to do another revision, that would be bad news. I would say yield or something is the problem.

Anyway, I hope for ATI it wont be delayed to much and that it will have a good enough performance edge on current G80 because it would hurt them pretty bad if it ends up being release at the same time as 8900 wih similar performance...
February 21, 2007 11:45:51 AM

Really disappointing. I was really looking forward to jumping on XTX Crossfire, but now it looks like I'm sticking with nV again. Even if the performance turns out to be 10 - 15% better than 8800 gtx, 5-6 months is way too long a delay. And who knows what "Q2" means... (April, May, June?). At this point, it looks like 8900 might come out before R600 :roll:
February 21, 2007 11:50:17 AM

I was looking for a card faster than the 8800GTX and now I have to wait until March. :( 
February 21, 2007 11:52:48 AM

Quote:
I was looking for a card faster than the 8800GTX and now I have to wait until March. :( 


Try April, May or June ("Q2"). End of March was the last date, before this delay.
February 21, 2007 12:20:25 PM

:cry: 
February 21, 2007 12:54:32 PM

Quote:
I was looking for a card faster than the 8800GTX and now I have to wait until March. :( 


Try April, May or June ("Q2"). End of March was the last date, before this delay.I wasn't thinking when I made the post; now it looks like the 8900GTX may be hitting around the same time as the R600. :?
February 21, 2007 1:08:45 PM

noooooooooooooo! :evil:  :evil:  :(  :( 
I hope it at least beats crysis to market !
February 21, 2007 1:41:53 PM

Remember, Q2 starts in april. From what I understand it's actually getting pushed 2 weeks, not months.

They didn't think production will be sufficient to make it out by the end of March, so it'll be early April, supposedly.
February 21, 2007 4:49:43 PM

It doesn't need to beat Crysis to the market. Since NWN2 I have come to the conclusion that when games come out you should allow about 4 months for the patches to resolve the various bugs and performance isssues, because very often due to time restrictions, developpers have to release their game when it's not even gone through enough testing. Plus, by waiting that time if any issues arise you can find a lot of information on various forums.

If what you were planning to was to jump on both the R600 and Crysis the moment they come out, let me tell you that is not very wise.
February 21, 2007 5:05:23 PM

Quote:
Since NWN2 I have come to the conclusion that when games come out you should allow about 4 months for the patches to resolve the various bugs and performance isssues


4 months after Crysis release? Is that the perfect time to STRIKE?! :lol: 

I'm just not that patient. After reading about, thinking about Crysis for so long I want to tear that sexy plastic wrap right off.

Don't worry, on release day I'll post a review telling you how it's "soooo cooool and unbelievable and you don't know what you're missing man." :p 
February 21, 2007 5:11:13 PM

Quote:
Remember, Q2 starts in april. From what I understand it's actually getting pushed 2 weeks, not months.

They didn't think production will be sufficient to make it out by the end of March, so it'll be early April, supposedly.


Yeah, looks like they're trying to avoid a "paper launch" which is OK in my book.
February 21, 2007 5:25:57 PM

Keep in mind that most industry analysts have been saying the card wouldn't be available for purchase until mid to late April. The only thing new I see with this news is the enthusiast community won't be able to review the card before the end of the quarter. That's disappointing.
February 21, 2007 5:35:50 PM

I find it hard to believe that they won't have a card to demo at CeBIT in March if, based on what you say is true, they're only pushing it back a few weeks. With as much buzz as the R600 has AMD should be able to produce at least one card for demo if the problem only stems from not having enough production for launch. Otherwise they're going to shoot themselves in the foot. It may not be a launch (and it would be better than a paper launch), but at least we might still get some solid info out of CeBIT instead of rumors.

It doesn't change much for the people in the mainstream market as the smart person won't make a purchase until both nV's and AMD's mainstream stuff is out and tested. Key word being smart.
February 21, 2007 6:01:12 PM

Aarrgh... I really would love to see some "reliable" benchmarks for the card. It would make the wait much more barable since we know that we know if it is worth it or not.
February 21, 2007 6:16:17 PM

Quote:
Remember, Q2 starts in april. From what I understand it's actually getting pushed 2 weeks, not months.

They didn't think production will be sufficient to make it out by the end of March, so it'll be early April, supposedly.


Yeah, looks like they're trying to avoid a "paper launch" which is OK in my book.

I think it bears reminding everybody that this is the Inq that said it, and not any announcement from AMD/ATI, at least not from I've read so far. So how often has the Inq been wrong?

So what if it takes a couple extra weeks before hitting the stores? I'll have another paychack by then and it will be easier to buy. And since there is such an underwhelming amount of DX10 games for sale, I won't notice the difference on that end.
February 21, 2007 6:27:17 PM

Perhaps this is all a trick, perhaps DX10 doesn't even exist, that ATi don't have the nerve to tell us, and nVidia hopes we won't find out untill someone buys them out :lol: 

or perhaps they just wait so they'll have a large enough stock of all the models for all to be satisfied when it finally launches, remember there isn't yet a real midrange dx10 card at a midrange price :wink:
February 21, 2007 7:01:11 PM

Does anyone know why the freak they still have not released any info about their cards or any kind of tech demo or benchmarks or anything?
It just make no sense to me at all. :?
February 21, 2007 7:30:26 PM

Quote:
Perhaps this is all a trick, perhaps DX10 doesn't even exist, that ATi don't have the nerve to tell us, and nVidia hopes we won't find out untill someone buys them out :lol: 


I can see it all so clearly. Someone at M$ comes up with an idea; "Lets design a new DX for our new OS, call it DX10, that doesn't really exist. We'll put in DX9 so everyone can run their old video cards and won't be suspicious."

Nvidia comes out with the their 8800 series cards that are supposed to use this new, unwritten DX10, but they naturally cannot write any drivers for something that doesn't exist. But at least they have the fastest DX9 card around.

ATI has been buy trying to write a code for this non-existent DX10, but whatever they try, it doesn't work, so they have to delay their new card.

Then someone, somewhere, finally hacks what is the supposed DX10 coding and finds the wording "You've been had, Sucker!!!"
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2007 8:13:23 PM

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that they won't have a card to demo at CeBIT in March if, based on what you say is true, they're only pushing it back a few weeks. With as much buzz as the R600 has AMD should be able to produce at least one card for demo if the problem only stems from not having enough production for launch. Otherwise they're going to shoot themselves in the foot. It may not be a launch (and it would be better than a paper launch), but at least we might still get some solid info out of CeBIT instead of rumors.


Yeah and that's the thing that has me a little 'beffudled' on this one.

Why would you cancel a PR-PRESS invite only demo day, which can be paper and nothing more, if it wasn't something greated than just having volumes.

The note Tech Power Up posted seems to imply more, like as if they have fundamentally changed an aspect for the better, but at the price of delaying production of even demo products for the Press.

To cancel that to me means it's something significant, and I could speculate to the Nth degree, but with a topic like this too soon that would turn to Fanboi wars.

I'll just say that I get the feeling this is more than just a question of paper launch or not.

And personally I don't care about the high end, as long as the mid-range and mobile parts (from both companies) are on track, I'm happy.
February 21, 2007 8:49:49 PM

Interesting. I just read the techPowerUp! note and it does indeed look like they're canceling the CeBIT demo. :( 

Supposedly ATI told techPowerUp!:

"To better align our strategy with current market opportunities, we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market with an extremely attractive combination of performance, features and pricing, targeting a broader market segment in Q2. With the revised strategy, AMD will be better able to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10, being driven in part by the growing popularity of Windows Vista™."

This was a tough decision to make for us, but a necessary one that will ultimately result in bringing a better product to market."

[Speculation]Sounds like they want to launch (not just demo) a mainstream X2600 product at the same time as the high end or perhaps (though unlikely) an X2800XT version in addition to the X2800XTX?[/Speculation]

Oh well. We should still see an 8600 series demo at CeBIT, right????? Or did this change in the last few minutes???
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2007 9:03:07 PM

I would suspect we'll see the GF8600 series at CeBit, but the thing is that it'll likely be behind closed doors, NDA'ed up the YingYang, since the launch isn't until April/May as well. So it's unlikely nV will show their hand without AMD showing anything.
February 21, 2007 9:44:28 PM

Nv probably has the g90 ready by now. This is getting ridiculous.
February 21, 2007 11:47:48 PM

Hmm, I wonder if AMD/ATI and Valve are secretly run by the same people. :wink:
February 22, 2007 1:05:16 AM

Quote:
Perhaps this is all a trick, perhaps DX10 doesn't even exist, that ATi don't have the nerve to tell us, and nVidia hopes we won't find out untill someone buys them out :lol: 


I can see it all so clearly. Someone at M$ comes up with an idea; "Lets design a new DX for our new OS, call it DX10, that doesn't really exist. We'll put in DX9 so everyone can run their old video cards and won't be suspicious."

Nvidia comes out with the their 8800 series cards that are supposed to use this new, unwritten DX10, but they naturally cannot write any drivers for something that doesn't exist. But at least they have the fastest DX9 card around.

ATI has been buy trying to write a code for this non-existent DX10, but whatever they try, it doesn't work, so they have to delay their new card.

Then someone, somewhere, finally hacks what is the supposed DX10 coding and finds the wording "You've been had, Sucker!!!"



Makes sense to me! :lol: 
February 22, 2007 1:58:11 AM

Quote:
I was looking for a card faster than the 8800GTX and now I have to wait until March. :( 


Try April, May or June ("Q2"). End of March was the last date, before this delay.

Can't really make up my mind if I should wait for ATI. I was originally going to replace the 7600GS stopgap with an 8600 Ultra around April 1st, but I don't like Pure Video, let alone paying for it. Right now, I'm giving the 30 day trial version a spin.

So, I was thinking of going back to ATI for Avivo. I've owned two All in Wonder cards on my Northwood AGP system these past four years and was happy. The $200 ATI DX10 cards were supposed to be delayed only one month after the high end, but they look to be further out.

Might just as well go 8600 Ultra, pay for Pure Video and accept the minor differences in image quality for video playback. I want to do a dual boot with Vista and Windows Media Center 2005, but I won't do that until I get a DX10 card.

Then again, Nvidia might not have a decent Vista DX10 driver out before June anyways...
February 22, 2007 1:59:54 AM

Quote:
Hmm, I wonder if AMD/ATI and Valve are secretly run by the same people. :wink:


that would make sence considering how buggy the 8800 ( fog bug ) are in valvle source games :p 
a b U Graphics card
February 22, 2007 2:22:41 AM

Quote:

Can't really make up my mind if I should wait for ATI. I was originally going to replace the 7600GS stopgap with an 8600 Ultra around April 1st, but I don't like Pure Video, let alone paying for it. Right now, I'm giving the 30 day trial version a spin.


Well the GF8600 will likely also be a Q2 refresh, and from the sound of things the X2600 will launch in the same time frame. So likely you will have the same options.

IMO, I would suggest going with the GF8800GTS, and then sell it if you prefer something later. Of course that's more expensive so if you need the mid-range, then wait for the GF8600U to come out and see what the more realistic dates are for AMD/ATi, I have a feeling that they will be close with nV beating them to market by a week or two.

Quote:
So, I was thinking of going back to ATI for Avivo. I've owned two All in Wonder cards on my Northwood AGP system these past four years and was happy. The $200 ATI DX10 cards were supposed to be delayed only one month after the high end, but they look to be further out.


I doubt the mid-range will get pushed out much more, it's the low-end which is 65nm that has a later launch date.

Quote:
Might just as well go 8600 Ultra, pay for Pure Video and accept the minor differences in image quality for video playback. I want to do a dual boot with Vista and Windows Media Center 2005, but I won't do that until I get a DX10 card.


Not sure what part of PureVideo is ticking you off, but either way, you'll know your options better in 2 months time when both the GF8600 and X2600 are expected, and likely the R600 architecture will be fully known (although doubtlessly no one but the ATi engineers wil know what it means :wink: ).

I would say either get the GF8800GTS-320 now, or if you're going to wait, then you will likely know both options by then.
February 22, 2007 3:02:26 AM

When they do come out, that is what is going in mine. :wink:
February 22, 2007 3:56:29 AM

I am waiting for the intel price drop at the end of april, by then hopefully there will be either the ATI cards out, new Nvidia cards or both. When there is competition, hopefully that will drive the cost of the 8800GTX down, which is what I really want. I want ATI to release their card because I want to potentially drive down the cost of the Nvidia cards.

Competition is the consumer's best friend.
February 22, 2007 4:03:51 AM

Quote:
Competition is the consumer's best friend.


Well said :wink:
February 22, 2007 4:08:41 AM

Quote:
Perhaps this is all a trick, perhaps DX10 doesn't even exist, that ATi don't have the nerve to tell us, and nVidia hopes we won't find out untill someone buys them out :lol: 


I can see it all so clearly. Someone at M$ comes up with an idea; "Lets design a new DX for our new OS, call it DX10, that doesn't really exist. We'll put in DX9 so everyone can run their old video cards and won't be suspicious."

Nvidia comes out with the their 8800 series cards that are supposed to use this new, unwritten DX10, but they naturally cannot write any drivers for something that doesn't exist. But at least they have the fastest DX9 card around.

ATI has been buy trying to write a code for this non-existent DX10, but whatever they try, it doesn't work, so they have to delay their new card.

Then someone, somewhere, finally hacks what is the supposed DX10 coding and finds the wording "You've been had, Sucker!!!"

(if you're joking, please ignore)

i hate to break it to you, but DX10 does exist and it's very real. nvidia released a DX10 demo this week and i've personally tried. it's not terribly impressive, but there are clearly "new" things to DX10 that i've never seen in DX9. look at the water effects in this screenshot i took:



can't do that with DX9.
February 22, 2007 4:15:33 AM

No one cares about water splashing on a rock :tongue:
"Hey, look everyone at my dx10 game, its called water falling on rocks" :p 



joke
February 22, 2007 4:57:44 AM

Quote:

(if you're joking, please ignore)


Yes, I was joking. And I am looking forward to the ATI R600 coming out if for no other reason then to give Nvidia a bit of competion and maybe get some prices down. I'm just not in as desperate a hurry for it to happen as some people are.
February 22, 2007 5:08:38 AM

Quote:


Not sure what part of PureVideo is ticking you off, but either way, you'll know your options better in 2 months time when both the GF8600 and X2600 are expected, and likely the R600 architecture will be fully known (although doubtlessly no one but the ATi engineers wil know what it means :wink: ).

I would say either get the GF8800GTS-320 now, or if you're going to wait, then you will likely know both options by then.


The main part of Pure Video that ticks me off is that I have to pay for it when Avivo comes free with even midrange cards. I almost got the X1600 Pro as a stopgap, but a friend pleaded with me to buy the 7600GS so that I could sell it to him for half price when I upgrade. Then, it turns out that he's come into some money since then and is waiting for the lowest end 8600 (ie not the Ultra) anyways. LOL!

I can't seem to get my H.264 fansubs to be recognized in any player, not Windows Media Player, not Media Center, not DIVX, even though I have the latest Nvidia drivers and Pure Video. I plan on taking the time to troubleshoot it this weekend, and will get it working, but I was under the impression that Avivo and Pure Video installed all the codec etc to allow the latest Windows Media Player to at least play those file types. From what I've read regarding Pure Video, their H.264 support seems aimed at playing Bluray and HD-DVD movies only.

Of course, I have other formats for those unlicensed fansubs, but I downloaded the H.264 this past year and archived them so I could watch at 1280 x 720 resolution on my monitor when I finally had a compatible graphics card. Oh, and it turns out that only certain 7xxx series cards are compatible with the HD features in Pure Cinema and I don't see my card on the list.

Plus, recent comparisons prefer Avivo to Pure Cinema, so even if Nvidia's 8xxx series is a bit better than R600 in framerate in most games (something we don't know yet), I do enough anime fansubs that I spend as much time watching video as playing Oblivion and other CRPGs. Though Alan Wake's not a CRPG, I'm looking forward to it this next year, Spore also.

This board has x8 PCIe only, not x16, would that limit me with a higher end card than the $200 mainstream? I figured I could always build another system with another motherboard later on when I needed x16 bandwidth, but the $89.00 for the decent case and mobo in the barebones made even replacing the PSU worth it. So far, it's a nice little system, albeit low midrange nowadays.

Glad to hear that the X2600 (what is the high end? X2800 or X2900?) will be out shortly after, so I can wait. I can't afford an 8800GTS after this build, it will take 2 to 3 months to replenish my computer upgrade allotment. All I'm getting next month is the Seasonic PSU and another one gig stick of Kingston Value ram from Newegg.

Quote:
No one cares about water splashing on a rock :tongue:
"Hey, look everyone at my dx10 game, its called water falling on rocks" :p 



joke


Funny, yes, but when it's a tsunami of water falling on rocks, and sending them tumbling down the cliff only to fall on a building in a town, causing it to collapse with NPCs running to get away from the damage and guards running to help out, then it will be great. I don't want destructible environments in CRPGs just so I can blow things up real good as if it were a FPS, but I want destructible environments in CRPGs to mimic real life damage situations that might arise from a typical CRPG event of a mysterious volcano erupting, a gate from an otherworld spewing forth fire ball tossing monsters, or a split tree trunk caused by an errant lightning bolt. I want all of this unscripted in real time and first person, as in a TES game. Maybe that's too much to hope for, but I hope DX10 can move us partway there.
February 22, 2007 5:18:56 AM

It could still come out in march like we thought it would. They just want to keep the buzz going and have people talk about the card some more.

And the more people wait, the more they anticipate it on the day of release. Marketing 101. 8)
February 22, 2007 5:28:39 AM

Quote:

Funny, yes, but when it's a tsunami of water falling on rocks, and sending them tumbling down the cliff only to fall on a building in a town, causing it to collapse with NPCs running to get away from the damage and guards running to help out, then it will be great. I don't want destructible environments in CRPGs just so I can blow things up real good as if it were a FPS, but I want destructible environments in CRPGs to mimic real life damage situations that might arise from a typical CRPG event of a mysterious volcano erupting, a gate from an otherworld spewing forth fire ball tossing monsters, or a split tree trunk caused by an errant lightning bolt. I want all of this unscripted in real time and first person, as in a TES game. Maybe that's too much to hope for, but I hope DX10 can move us partway there.


You should write books or make pc games :tongue:
a b U Graphics card
February 22, 2007 2:25:31 PM

Quote:

I can't seem to get my H.264 fansubs to be recognized in any player, not Windows Media Player, not Media Center, not DIVX, even though I have the latest Nvidia drivers and Pure Video.


Not sure if that's a restriction of the GF7600GS or not, I know some PureVideoHD features are disabled for the GS, and the enabling point is the GT (St00pid thing is that the GS is the one that ships with HDMI !!). Hopefully your troubleshooting goes well. I don't think that the packages automatically install codecs, and maybe one does and the other doesn't, and maybe based on the nV model maybe you need to pay 99cents. I don't know. However there are a plethora of codec packs out there and Doom9 wesbsite has a link to some of the best tools and packs that I use.

Quote:
Plus, recent comparisons prefer Avivo to Pure Cinema,


Yeah I've found the balance has tipped back recently and it's pretty even, and depends alot on what you like to do/watch. Sounds like in your case you're in the grey area that isn't supporting your use habits. Also of course there are a few features disabled for the GF7600GS like I mentioned so that would of course tip the balance too. However I doubt there'll be any features not fully enabled on the GF8600, but I could be wrong if they decide to let marketing 'target' certain segments for this stuff.

Quote:
This board has x8 PCIe only, not x16, would that limit me with a higher end card than the $200 mainstream?[


Not unde current applications, and I'm not sure the overall impact for future applications. Two unknowns would be DX10, and then serperate but related, physics and co-processing tasks. Until there's actual apps that can expose all those feature, it's hard to tell what level the bus will be involved. I think overall though for gaming and video playback, even 4X PCIe wouldn't have much impact on a GF8800GTS-320, but it would be there theoretically, probably just not practically, like the difference of overclocking +/- 5% IMO. And I think the impact on the mid-range is likely to be even less. And while we talk about memory not being a big factor, I think for the DX10 and co-processing applications we may see the larger on board memory making a difference, and that may impact what effect the 8X vs 16X has as well since it may be able to do more locally on the card instead of communicating more with the host system.
February 22, 2007 4:41:36 PM

IIRC, the mid-range 8000 series was always going to be a Q2 launch with a CeBIT demo, but I could be wrong.

VR-Zone is hinting that AMD wants a hard launch for the X2900 as well as to finish driver enhancements.

Here's another interesting nV tidbit/rumor from VR-Zone.
a b U Graphics card
February 22, 2007 5:16:23 PM

Quote:
They changed the release date to April/May now? :cry:  I have been waiting for the 8600's and was all ready to get one in March since that was the last I have heard about it as far as when it is to be released.


Yeah it was mentioned last week that it would be pushed back and April sounds optimistic (original was March/April, now it's sounding April-June), I only commented on it and am interested because I hope this doesn't change their laptop plans as nV has been talking about having the mid range GF8 series ready for intel's SantaRosa launch in April. I hope they aren't related and there's no laptop delay, any delay would really push the whole market back IMO, and put no pressure on ATi either. We''ll see, still could surprise and be an earlier launch, but like the R600 that's not the buzz that's going around.

Quote:
Starting to think more and more I should just get a 7900gs or 7950gt to hold me over and then use stepup to get the 8600.


Well it depends on what you're looking for, I wouldn't bother buying a GF79xx if your goal is the GF8600, heck I'd say forget the whole think and just get a GF8800GTS-320 in that case, and then get a cheap GF7300GT for the other rig if you prefer nV or X1600Pro (for $60) if you don't care which. To me those low end with a GF800GTS-320 makes more sense than a GF8600U and GF79xx. Of course that's because I'd want 4-6X the framerate of my visitng friends, but knowing I had the best solution for the money. Just a thought.
a b U Graphics card
February 22, 2007 6:08:45 PM

Ok, was thinking you were buying 2 cards, and that you were somehow paying basically the same as a GTS+low end for two mid-range.

Anywhoo, you could always buy something from eVGA and then use their step-up program with the thiniking that you'll get the GF8600U as soon as you can, and the price at that time will be the same directly from eVGA as from NewEgg. Of course there's still the hassle of returning a card, and being without a card, and not actually having the GF8600U on day one.

Dunno, kinda a tight squeeze,but I'd say wait and see how things turn out, nV may launch early to capitalize on this recent event, but I doubt it.
February 22, 2007 7:13:00 PM

It sux now that R600 (x2800s) is being pushed back all the way to May now. I want new AMDTI vid cards otherwise I'll have to buy Nvidia when April comes around
!