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WHAT ON EARTH ARE ATI PLAYING AT??? R600 SLIPS AGAIN LOL!!!

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  • Graphics Cards
  • Gtx
  • Nvidia
  • ATI
  • Graphics
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February 21, 2007 12:37:05 PM

Q2?

It's already six months late! so much for competing with the GTX!!!



HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Already SIX months behind Nvidia with DX10 and now even longer, by the time R600 and derivatives hit, Nvidia will own the market from top to bottom. Thier top end cards are already getting killed, their mid range is beaten in theto submission by lower cost GTS 320MB's and next month the 8600 Ultra's etc hits. Nvidia will have every decent price point covered.

ATI have lost the plot!

By the time R600 hits Nvidia will have it beat.

Dear of dear oh dear, people hanging on for this red elephant must be nuts.

I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!!

:lol: 

More about : earth ati playing r600 slips lol

February 21, 2007 12:56:08 PM

You're basing your reflexion on future events, or in other words, non-existent data. Yes, the 8800 GTS is a hit. Actually, the only one from nVidia since the 7600GT; ATI has been trumping the mid-high segment with its X1950s for a long time until now. NVidia has currently no choice but to do something better than ATI, which the company has not realized since hum... the geForce 4? It's called trading blows. The FX was a complete blunder and yet nVidia still lives. You can't predict the death of a company based on a few months of superiority. (Else nVidia would be dead since long ago :wink: ).

So, you must be classified as a fanboy.

Speaking of which, the X1950XT is still 70$ cheaper than nVidia's 320MB new hit, here in Canada.
February 21, 2007 1:02:56 PM

Go easy. I'm surprised anyone's touting "DX10" without a platform on which to test.

It would be wise to delay the relase to tweak the die for the 2 or 3 DX10 games coming out, so it can smash on the benchmarks.
February 21, 2007 1:16:49 PM

ummm... good for you? :roll:

If Nvidia does happen to "smash" ATI we are all in trouble, It's called competition, without it we will be buying overpriced 8800GTS' 3 years from now.

From your post it seems you are a huge Nvidia fanboy in denial. Saying that Nvidia will win based on a couple of rumors.
February 21, 2007 1:22:40 PM

Quote:
Already SIX months behind Nvidia with DX10


I guess Ati users will have to wait to play all those DirectX 10 games out there...

...oh yeah, there aren't any yet.

Seriously, DirectX 10 is a non issue until it's playable. As far as performance, sure Ati could be doing better in the high end but it's hardly a death knell yet. :roll:
February 21, 2007 1:49:47 PM

Where did i say that it was the death knell?

Nvidia is battering ATI at the moment and will be for the next few months.

By the way at this time i don't own a GPU as i'm in a new build, and it would be nice to have some competition, i'm not waiting until summer though!

I'm not a fanboy i've owned cards for both companies, but the fact remains that ATI isn't even in the game at this point.
February 21, 2007 1:51:58 PM

As bad as delays are, with no DX10 games and DX9 cards able to run every game out there, this delay honestly doesn't matter that much at all.
February 21, 2007 1:56:36 PM

Arent the people who are buying Nvidia Dx10 cards still waiting for the DirectX10 Drivers to arrive?

Direct10 card is worthless without the drivers.

Who ever started this thread is a moron and this thread should be deleted.
February 21, 2007 1:57:08 PM

Quote:
You're basing your reflexion on future events, or in other words, non-existent data. Yes, the 8800 GTS is a hit. Actually, the only one from nVidia since the 7600GT; ATI has been trumping the mid-high segment with its X1950s for a long time until now. NVidia has currently no choice but to do something better than ATI, which the company has not realized since hum... the geForce 4? It's called trading blows. The FX was a complete blunder and yet nVidia still lives. You can't predict the death of a company based on a few months of superiority. (Else nVidia would be dead since long ago :wink: ).

So, you must be classified as a fanboy.

Speaking of which, the X1950XT is still 70$ cheaper than nVidia's 320MB new hit, here in Canada.


You're making a HUGE overstatement here. With the 6, 7, and 8 series, ATI has come late to the market to match Nvidia. If you think ATI is amazing for bringing out a superior product 6 months later than good for you, but I don't think its anything special. the performance gain from X1800 over the similar 7 series cards was really weak for the amount of time people waitied for them, and if ATI hadn't done a really fast refresh with the X1900 cards things wouldve been bad imo.

You say the 8800gts is the only hit since the 7600gt...lol. Wow they only had to wait one series for another hit what craziness.

The releases of nvidia vs ATI cards is so staggered now its hard to compare them directly. Once ATI releases their cards it might only be 6-8 months before the 9 series. I like this a lot better, I've managed to get high end cards for really cheap because of it. I got my 7800gtx for 400$ before the X18 stuff even came out, and now I have a X1900XTX that I got for 300$.

Its funny how you classify him as a fanboy when you've obviously been rooting for ATI since what...geforce4?
February 21, 2007 2:04:13 PM

Quote:
Where did i say that it was the death knell?


Probably about the same time you said "ATI have lost the plot!"... :roll:

Seriously, Ati has some great products in the sub-$200 category where the real money is made. A couple more weeks delay isn't good at all, but without Dx10 games here it's really not the end of the world.
February 21, 2007 2:10:33 PM

Quote:
As bad as delays are, with no DX10 games and DX9 cards able to run every game out there, this delay honestly doesn't matter that much at all.


It´s not important what is available but what the media makes people believe they need. I think NV gets a lot of customers that go by the "higher is better" mentality or those that bought a ATI XXX series card and can´t play the newer UT-engine based games (R6 Vegas, Splinter Cell), for example. Most of the "future proofing" bunch has to buy NV cards if they build a computer now and it has been like that for months. That´s a lot of cash that could´ve been AMDs but they missed the opportunity. And with the new delay NV can even further milk its DX10 monopoly. :x

I do hope they get their cards done before the first DX10 revision and Nvidias follow up cards.
February 21, 2007 2:11:55 PM

ATI's not in the game? Did you read Cleeve's "The best video cards for the money" for this month? In PCI-Express, 5 nVidia cards, and 5 ATI cards. Obviously you're strongly biased and can't look at the real prices of actual video cards and what they're worth individually.

Quote:
You're making a HUGE overstatement here. With the 6, 7, and 8 series, ATI has come late to the market to match Nvidia. If you think ATI is amazing for bringing out a superior product 6 months later than good for you, but I don't think its anything special.
I did not say ATI was amazing for anything. (Actually, I'd like to know what is the HUGE overstatement you're talking about). What I said is that nVidia, until the G80, hasn't done better than ATI since the geForce4. FX<9000, 6X00=Xx00 (and I'm being generous with nVidia), 7X00=X1K (again, being generous), G80>X2K as it's not out yet. This is to prove that their is no basis for the OPs assumption: that ATI's out of the game.

Quote:
You say the 8800gts is the only hit since the 7600gt...lol. Wow they only had to wait one series for another hit what craziness.
This is not to diss nVidia. This is to say that they did not, and DO not, as the OP seems to assume, own every segment. The 7600GT right now is the low-end; 8800s are the high-end. In the mainstream, ATI is still playing a strong game with the X1950 series. Agreed?
February 21, 2007 2:27:54 PM

DX10 cards are "worthless". But they still kick hard on DX9 games.
February 21, 2007 2:40:23 PM

seriously.

'YOUR 8800 IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DX10 GAMES OUT!!!11one'

uh...? the 8800 slays in dx9 too.

and out of curiosity, how come when i run dxdiag in vista, it says my dx version is dx10?
February 21, 2007 2:46:50 PM

Quote:
and out of curiosity, how come when i run dxdiag in vista, it says my dx version is dx10?


For the last time, just because you have DX10 SOFTWARE installed doesn't mean that you have the HARDWARE to fully utilize it. Yes, you have DX10, but you won't be able to use its DX10-exclusive features without a DX10 compatible card.
February 21, 2007 2:53:04 PM

It's all hype. Vista bombed out - have you seen the performance stats? Who needs DX10 (for now at least). Wait 9 months.
February 21, 2007 2:53:15 PM

ok, i was genuinely curious. people are so strung out here...
February 21, 2007 2:55:02 PM

Count me in on the "competition is good" crowd. I love my 8800GTX, but for the time being, NV is charging the crap out of it because they can. Competition and lower prices are good for everyone.
February 21, 2007 3:00:13 PM

Quote:
ok, i was genuinely curious. people are so strung out here...


yeah i know what you are talking about :evil:  this forum sucks for politeness , i mean they take it for granted that you should know everything :evil: 

Anyway there are some friendly people although most of them are rude .
February 21, 2007 3:01:54 PM

There aer DX10 drivers out..sure they arent gold yet but you can DL the beta build which seems to be holding up relatively well. And regardless if Nvidia has DX10 drivers out yet for the G80 they are kicking ATIs ass in the 9x department also. Oh and that best gaming card for the money where it was split down the middle was done before Nvidia had price drops on the G80 and also before they released the 8800GTS 320mb. So the $300 card which was once owned by ATI is now taken by the 8800GTS 320. And for the record im not an Nvidia Fanboy..i now own 4 rigs 2 of them Nvidia 2 ATI.
February 21, 2007 3:02:27 PM

i guess its a consequence of not having a girlfriend.

kinda like a single cheeseburger trio at mcdonalds. :p 
February 21, 2007 3:05:52 PM

I'm friendly people. :lol:  Actually, most of us are but there are a few crabby ones here and there.
February 21, 2007 3:09:29 PM

Quote:
i guess its a consequence of not having a girlfriend.

kinda like a single cheeseburger trio at mcdonalds. :p 


I like your system specs , pretty nice i am going to be getting the evga 680i mboard myself :) 
February 21, 2007 3:26:59 PM

Instead of trying to interpret what i posted to suit your own ends - try reading it instead.

It isn't a couple of weeks, they haven't a clue when it's coming, or dare'nt speculate beyond the very wooly "Quarter 2" estimate.


ATI does have some great products, both teams do, but ATI is lagging badly.
February 21, 2007 3:36:54 PM

Quote:
Instead of trying to interpret what i posted to suit your own ends - try reading it instead.

It isn't a couple of weeks, they haven't a clue when it's coming, or dare'nt speculate beyond the very wooly "Quarter 2" estimate.


ATI does have some great products, both teams do, but ATI is lagging badly.


i can see your point , i am disappointed in Ati i was lookin foward to the r 600 dont mind certain people , their minds are overclocked :lol: 
February 21, 2007 3:42:42 PM

I mainly meant that for a couple series now ATI has released their cards later than Nvidia. You say nvidia hasnt done anything good since their 4 stuff, and while I agree that the 5 series sucked, the 6 and 7 series did not. The 7 series started what seems like it could become a trend. It came out months earlier than the next ATI refresh, and stomped the old high end ATI stuff. And even tho ATI had a lot mroe time, I wasn't impressed by the X18XX cards performance. They gave a small gain over the nvidia stuff out at the time. Luckily ATI made a fast update to the X19XX cards, which were much better imo. If I remember correctly, even the 6 series were out before the X8XX stuff. As people commonly say around here, of course better stuff will always be out if you wait, and ATI seems to be a perfect example of this. I have no doubt that the R600 will be better than the G80 cards, but will the gain be worth the wait? People thought the X18XX cards would absolutely destroy the 7 series cards, and I don't think that was true at all. DX10 may not be out, but people with 8800 cards are still able to max every DX9 game they have now, with great features and IQ. I'm personally waiting for DX10 stuff to show up first, but I would not be disappointed right now if I had a 8800gtx.

BTW, Supreme Commander is supposed to be DX10 right, and its out right now, but support isnt in for it yet for various reasons, but I would expect ti to happen very soon...
February 21, 2007 3:42:51 PM

Quote:


and out of curiosity, how come when i run dxdiag in vista, it says my dx version is dx10?


Because DX10 is built in in Vista. When I run dxdiag in XP in my girlfriend's PC it also states DX9.0c when in fact she has a ATI 9200 which is a DX8 GPU...it just means that its the version of DX installed, not that your GPU is running in that mode.
February 21, 2007 4:22:40 PM

I was looking forward to making a choice when i got my GPU in April, sadly the choice will be different shades of green only.

I understand how the fanboy thing works, but i don't think anyone can argue that ATI has slipped badly here.

The DX10 thing (that DX10 games aren't out yet) is a bit of a red herring, as ATI wouldn't even have the cards out if they were, also Nvidia is killing ATI in DX9.

Let's not even start on the one sided CPU battle.......

:lol: 
February 21, 2007 4:33:17 PM

I'm so glad I didn't wait for this card. I would be going crazy by now.

Keep in mind that a DX10 patch for Company of Heroes and Supreme Commander is expected to be out this quarter.

If Crysis launches BEFORE the r600 then it's game over.

And I wouldn't feel to confident about a product that's being rushed out the door at the very last minute.
February 21, 2007 4:34:38 PM

Quote:
You say nvidia hasnt done anything good since their 4 stuff, and while I agree that the 5 series sucked, the 6 and 7 series did not.
I said "better than ATI" and not "good". I think the nVidia counterparts of the Xx00 and X1K are very competitive, especially the 6600GT and 7600GT. (While I think in high-end segment of both these generations ATI does a bit better). The only overstatement that was made was the OP, which assumed ATI was quickly slipping out of the competition, and all I set out to prove is that there was no ground for this assumption. It's pretty silly to make speculations on the future, but even more so if they're based on false assumptions about the present.

Now let's agree and leave fanboys to their hopelessness. I got better things to do. :wink:
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2007 4:39:40 PM

Quote:

Already SIX months behind Nvidia with DX10 and now even longer, by the time R600 and derivatives hit, Nvidia will own the market from top to bottom.


Except that the GF8600 doesn't reach market until Q2 either, so the only thing that nV has in the market is the GF8800, and even with it all by itself during the Xmas season no less (where's Kinney to talk about that?) they still got outsold by ATi in the discrete market. So really how much is the Ultra-high end worth?

Quote:
Thier top end cards are already getting killed, their mid range is beaten in theto submission by lower cost GTS 320MB's


The GTS will be the part that matters, because it will get the next 1-3% of the market that shops in the $250+ range. however considering the entire $250+ range is about 5% of the overall market, you gotta wonder if it's going to change things much. The money cards are the $100-200 range, and then of course the OEM gravy train, and those solutions haven't changed a bit other than both companies dropping their prices (which isn't good for either company). The market that will matter is the low and mid-range, and those offerings aren't going to change much until Q2.

[quuote]and next month the 8600 Ultra's etc hits. Nvidia will have every decent price point covered.[/quote]

What you didn't get the memo? GF8600 has been delayed,it was discussed like 2 weeks ago. May is the new due date for the GF8600 too, so sound like there won't be much difference in lead time in that department.

Quote:
ATI have lost the plot!


Sounds like they've got a pretty good grip on it, but you seem to be thinking that this is a 5 minute short film, and not an Epic. It's about the money boy, not about who can shout from the top of the hill. The most profitable segment is still left undefended by nV, and ATi is all over that segment with far too many cards really, and they are cheaper to produce too being on 80nm.

Quote:
I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!!


Hardly. :roll:
And why would anyone think you're a fanboi by your obvious demonstration of such objectivity.
February 21, 2007 4:44:48 PM

Quote:
Instead of trying to interpret what i posted to suit your own ends - try reading it instead.


Coming from the guy who titles his post "WHAT ON EARTH ARE ATI PLAYING AT??? R600 SLIPS AGAIN LOL!!!", that doesn't mean much...

You're complaining about my own ends... exactly what did I say that you disagree with? Or are you just making more of a fuss to stir up more attention? :roll:

You pretend to be objective, but using 'LOL' in your post title kind of gives your fanboyism away, don't you think? :lol: 
February 21, 2007 4:58:38 PM

Quote:
We have just learned that AMD's upcoming and eagerly anticipated R600 graphics processor has been delayed until the second quarter.

Something drastic enough to prevent AMD from launching this quarter has gone wrong, but the company didn't really go into the specific cause of the delay.

We could speculate all day long, but we'll leave that to someone else.

The chip was scheduled to get its first public outing under the lights in the Hanover Messe at this year's CeBIT trade show, but that is starting to look unlikely given this news.


http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02/21/r600_delayed_un...

I think maybe ATI tried to be too cutting-edge and may have a total disaster on their hands. I don't trust the stability of a card that is that big and consumes that much power.

I think the design is faulty and they're desperately trying to resolve their issues while stringing the faithful along with false promises. First January, then March now sometime in Q2.

It's not the end of ATI because like TheGreatGrapeApe said the high end market is only a small fraction of the business.

Anyway, I don't believe the R600 will be released and have fully functional and stable dx10 drivers before Q4.
February 21, 2007 5:20:15 PM

Quote:
The most profitable segment is still left undefended by nV, and ATi is all over that segment with far too many cards really, and they are cheaper to produce too being on 80nm.

"Undefended" is an overstatement, don't you think? Actually nVidia's 7600GT (140$ here) has no worthy competitor from ATI's side in Canada (X1650XTs are ridiculously overpriced), and even in the US the X1650XT is more expensive.
February 21, 2007 5:22:49 PM

Quote:
I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!


No... AMD is doing that.

But you are right, pretty soon ATI is going to fall so far behind that it will never be able to catch up.
February 21, 2007 5:25:21 PM

Well what are ATI playing at?


There card is months late, six months behind the 8800, and they can't even give a firmer release date than Q2????

They're are clearly in a mess with this card.


How do you draw the conclusion that i'm a Nvidia fanboy because i used "LOL"?

How?

I used LOL because ATI are making a laughing stock of themselves at the moment.

I think if you want to find a fanboy you should look in the mirror.

PS - I know why you're suing the "fanboy" tactic by the way, it's because ATI are months behind Nvidia, you have no excuses for their calamitous delays, and you don't like it!

:lol: 
February 21, 2007 5:27:51 PM

Quote:
I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!!


Right... :roll:... Fanboy...
February 21, 2007 5:31:51 PM

Quote:

I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!!

:lol: 


Why clarify that...it's so obvious you're not... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Thanks for bumping all the legitimate threads down with this worthless pieces of $hit thread you efin moron.
February 21, 2007 5:47:34 PM

Go fuck yourself you stupid little fanboy.

It's not my fault ATI can't get their flagship out and have no idea when they'll be able to either.


ATI are a joke at the moment.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
February 21, 2007 5:50:12 PM

Quote:
"Undefended" is an overstatement, don't you think?


Perhaps, but it's close, there is only the one player near that segment, and really the only time the GF7600GT makes sense (it was the best mid-range of 2006 no doubt, don't get me wrong) is when it is out of that price segment and into the sub $100 range, since the X1650XT is now deeply into that segment and outperforms the GF7600GT now for $109, it's not been pushed into the lower segment, heck the X1950GT is at $139, the $200 range is the X1950Pro and cheap old XTs.

Quote:
Actually nVidia's 7600GT (140$ here) has no worthy competitor from ATI's side in Canada (X1650XTs are ridiculously overpriced),


That's our overpriced market, and I don't disgree there, but the market that leads the way is the US, and that's where I'm comparing.

Quote:
and even in the US the X1650XT is more expensive.


And more powerful, but even the cheapest GF7600GT on NewEgg is $90, so it's a question of what market segments are we talking about.

The $100-$250 is the most profitable, the $0-100 is the largest selling, so for what I was talking about that statement is pretty accurate, however I will grant the GF7600GT depending on how the price lines are drawn. Don't get me wrong the GF7600GT is a solid card, and like I've said before anyone looking for an upgrade deal over the last year who didn't pick up a GF7600GT doesn't know what a deal is, but that's different from the point I was making about the segments.

As for the Canadian market, forget about it, doesn't really work well for comparisons outside of our own sandbox, because up here BestBuy and FutureShop can beat most online retailers since there is little competition. The minute NewEgg opened it's doors to Candian orders, places like NCIX, CanadaComputers, MemoryExpress, etc. would all drop their prices by 30+% or be forced out of the business.
February 21, 2007 5:51:47 PM

Nvidia holds the performance crown for Q4 06 and Q1 07 for all DX9. It also has DX10 support now. It's hard to tell if ATI is even doing anything with AMD getting dragged in.


Eventually ATI and Nvidia will start trading blows again.
February 21, 2007 5:53:37 PM

Exactly how does ATI releasing its next-generation card 5 to 6 months after nVidia is bad for them? If you can answer that question taking in consideration what Ape just explained to you then ok you'll have a point. For now you're just acting like a brainless fanboy, so don't be surprised if people call you names.

Why did nVidia release its G80 so early, anyway, except because the company felt it needed something better than the geForce 7 to compete with ATI? Isn't he who's rushing the one in the disadvantageous situation?
February 21, 2007 5:56:43 PM

Quote:

I think if you want to find a fanboy you should look in the mirror.


:roll:

Maybe we got off to a bad start here so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Let's recap:

Your original points are that:

"WHAT ON EARTH ARE ATI PLAYING AT??? R600 SLIPS AGAIN LOL!!!
It's already six months late! so much for competing with the GTX!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I'm not fanboy, but Nvidia are smashing ATI to pieces!!!! "

My counterpoint was that I don't think they're getting smashed to pieces, that yes they are lagging in the high end cards - but Dx10 games aren't here yet, so it's not as big of an issue it would be if, say, Crysis was released.

Your counter to that was that "Nvidia is battering ATI at the moment and will be for the next few months. "

My counterpoint was that Ati's sub-$200 offerings are still very solid and that's where the money is made.

To which your counter is "Instead of trying to interpret what i posted to suit your own ends - try reading it instead."

WTF didn't I read? I've pointed out reasonable facts to counter your sensationalism, and now I'm a fanboy? I've put the Nvidia 8800 on the top of the Best Cards to buy list for months now, but I'm the Nvidia hater. Riiiight.

I'm not the one writing "HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! LOL!!!" about one company or the other... it's pretty obvious who the corporate flag waver is in this thread, methinks... :roll:
February 21, 2007 5:58:42 PM

Quote:
Exactly how does ATI releasing its next-generation card 5 to 6 months after nVidia is bad for them? If you can answer that question taking in consideration what Ape just explained to you then ok you'll have a point. For now you're just acting like a brainless fanboy, so don't be surprised if people call you names.

Why did nVidia release its G80 so early...?

It was supposed to be release about same time as Windows Vista but obviously Microsoft was delayed for whatever reason and Vista is still not "ready." I would wait till SP1 for Vista to mature.
February 21, 2007 6:07:45 PM

Quote:
ok, i was genuinely curious. people are so strung out here...


Sorry if I sounded rude... I guess I was just stressed and exasperated.
February 21, 2007 6:09:13 PM

Malazan, a wise man once told me 2 things and I have never forgotten them
1. A word to the wise is sufficient
2. Don't play in the mud with pigs, cause only the pig will enjoy it

The comments you have made and the way you have responded to those that are trying to give you the truth of the matter tell me that
1. you are not teachable and that
2. I should stay away from your pen.
February 21, 2007 6:10:54 PM

You can probably add Q3 into that too.


Because ATI aren't even sure to have a bloody new card out nevermind the whole new range.

Crysis will be out before the R600 at this rate.

How long will the 1950 range hold up against GTS 320MB nevermind next months Ultra's etc?

Nvidia have three cards that are better than anything ATI has, GTX, GTS x2, and ATI are sat on their hands.

Of course ATI will be back but when? Nvidia have been in front for at least six months and will be for another 3 by the look of it.
February 21, 2007 6:12:56 PM

You can probably add Q3 into that too.


Because ATI aren't even sure to have a bloody new card out nevermind the whole new range.

Crysis will be out before the R600 at this rate.

How long will the 1950 range hold up against GTS 320MB nevermind next months Ultra's etc?

Nvidia have three cards that are better than anything ATI has, GTX, GTS x2, and ATI are sat on their hands.

Of course ATI will be back but when? Nvidia have been in front for at least six months and will be for another 3 by the look of it.
February 21, 2007 6:13:53 PM

Thanks for the clarifiying, Ape. But BTW, Futureshop prices are so wrong its not even funny. Among their current promotions, they have a 6800GT for 650$, on which they offer a 180$ discount, which brings it to 470$ :lol: 
February 21, 2007 6:15:19 PM

Quote:
Already SIX months behind Nvidia with DX10


I guess Ati users will have to wait to play all those DirectX 10 games out there...

...oh yeah, there aren't any yet.

Seriously, DirectX 10 is a non issue until it's playable. As far as performance, sure Ati could be doing better in the high end but it's hardly a death knell yet. :roll:

that is the best reply here.
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