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Will a X1650Pro be sufficient ?, please help

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February 21, 2007 4:36:54 PM

Hello buddies,
Below is my system config:
Core 2 Duo E6300
Intel 965RY Mobo
1GB Corsair DDR2 ram ( 2 , 512 sticks )
Mercury 400W generic PSU

Im planning to get a PCI express card to play these games,
FEAR, HL2, DooM3, Quake4, Far Cry,Splinter Cell : Chaos Theory etc
at say 1024X768 with 4 x AA & 8 x AF with HDR if it supports.

Will a X1650Pro suit my need? Im not into OC-ing.

More about : x1650pro sufficient

February 21, 2007 4:45:41 PM

You should go for an X1650 XT or 7600 GT at least for those games.

Both should be about $120 on newegg.com
February 22, 2007 12:16:26 AM

Yes, since they are first-person shooters you want to ensure a high framerate, something the X1650Pro can probably do in HL2 and its sequels, maybe Far Cry, but not FEAR, Quake 4, or Splinter Cell: CT. Up the ante a little bit as Cleeve said and go for an X1650XT.
Related resources
February 22, 2007 1:01:16 AM

Buy the 7600gt and buy a 500watt psu with 20amps on the 12v rails

Dahak

AMD X2-4400+@2.6 S-939
EVGA NF4 SLI MB
2X EVGA 7800GT IN SLI
2X 512MB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX DDR500
WD300GIG HD
ACER 22IN WIDESCREEN LCD 1600X1200
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER 850WATT PSU
COOLERMASTER MINI R120
February 22, 2007 10:23:55 AM

Quote:
Yes, since they are first-person shooters you want to ensure a high framerate, something the X1650Pro can probably do in HL2 and its sequels, maybe Far Cry, but not FEAR, Quake 4, or Splinter Cell: CT. Up the ante a little bit as Cleeve said and go for an X1650XT.


Well, check out this link buddies. Im not sure how true they are,

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x...

Radeon X1600XT provides 38FPS for FEAR at 1280 x 1024, ansion 16X.
So won't X1650Pro deliver a better performance at 1024 x 768, forget the HDR part.
February 22, 2007 12:17:50 PM

It looks fine indeed, but I'd point out that the X1650XT did 10fps better in average, not a negligeable feat. In Chaos theory, it does 48fps compared to the X1600XT's 34fps. You know, you get that "edge" instead of the strict acceptable minimum. That "edge" ensures the framerate doesn't bog down to anything unacceptable in particularly graphical-intensive scenes. Knowing that the X1650XT is only 20$ more, I'd take it.
February 22, 2007 12:26:43 PM

Ok pal. I will definitely take that into consideration. You pointed out smthn cool, thank you.

Does the X1650XT or 7600GT need any special connector?.
Well im going to buy a PCI Express card first time in my life (was on agp all this while), read smwhere that X1950pro needs a 6pin power connection.
Will my 400W Mercury PSU have that 6 pin? And am I missing out on smthng?. Want to use that PSU itself if possible.

Tried extreme power calculator & the need is around 340W for both x1650XT & 7600GT.
February 22, 2007 12:49:03 PM

Neither the X1650 XT or 7600 GT requires a special power connector, they draw all of their power from the PCIe slot.
February 22, 2007 1:21:37 PM

I suggest for you to spend a little more and get a card that has a 256bit memory interface, such as the 79xx series or X19xx series.
February 22, 2007 1:50:53 PM

Quote:
I suggest for you to spend a little more and get a card that has a 256bit memory interface, such as the 79xx series or X19xx series.


They were fine with me pal.
" Extreme power calculator
X1950Pro - 370W
7900GS - 350W "

But I have no idea whether my PSU ll support them (I have a 400W Mercury generic one). Plus Im not sure whether it has a 6 pin pci-e connector. Right now not in a state to fish out money for a new PSU.

Does 7900GS need that 6 pin PCI-E connector?
February 22, 2007 1:58:43 PM

Neither the 7900 GS nor the X1950 PRO requires a PCIe connector, I believe,

If you can afford the $170 or so to boy them, they are much better cards.
February 22, 2007 2:06:52 PM

Quote:
Neither the 7900 GS nor the X1950 PRO requires a PCIe connector, I believe,

If you can afford the $170 or so to boy them, they are much better cards.


Can u check out this link : http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/idea-ftopict225...

He says >> " I got a radeon 1950pro w/o realizing I needed the 6pin power connection. "

So i guess 1950pro does require one :(  .

I am waiting for updates on 7900GS, whether it needs that connector or not :)  .
February 22, 2007 2:24:29 PM

Quote:
Neither the X1650 XT or 7600 GT requires a special power connector, they draw all of their power from the PCIe slot.


Sorry to dissapoint you, but my Asus EAX1650XT does require an additional power connector from the psu. But my Enermax 350w psu handles the 1650xt fine with an A64 3200+ 939 and 1 gb ddr400.
February 22, 2007 2:29:58 PM

Quote:
Neither the X1650 XT or 7600 GT requires a special power connector, they draw all of their power from the PCIe slot.


Sorry to dissapoint you, but my Asus EAX1650XT does require an additional power connector from the psu. But my Enermax 350w psu handles the 1650xt fine with an A64 3200+ 939 and 1 gb ddr400.

Oh !! So depending on the brand it may or may not require a power connector, is that so?

:?:
February 22, 2007 2:46:28 PM

I've seen a review of the Ati X1650XT and it doens't require a PSU connector.

But I was wrong about the X1950 PROs, looks like they all need a power connector from the reviews I'm looking at.
February 22, 2007 2:59:03 PM

Quote:
I've seen a review of the Ati X1650XT and it doens't require a PSU connector.

But I was wrong about the X1950 PROs, looks like they all need a power connector from the reviews I'm looking at.


From the reviews i saw on the net, the Asus 1650xt is the only x1650xt who needs and extra power connector from the psu. Maybe that is the reason that the card makes so much noise in 2d, and even in 3d.
February 22, 2007 3:15:18 PM

Once you decide on the card that you want to install in your computer, the safest thing to do is to go to the manufacture's website, pull up the specs on the card and under "requirements" you will see if a 6-pin power connection is required. That way you can know for sure directly from the maker of the card.
February 22, 2007 3:19:22 PM

ok fine. Thanks on Asus X1650Xt, i ll keep in mind that it requires a power connector.

What about 7900GS does it require one?

If I were to purchase a X1650XT or a 7600GT which brand would you guys recommend?
February 22, 2007 5:36:21 PM

HIS for the X1650XT, whatever for the 7600GT (BFG, EVGA mainly).
February 22, 2007 9:22:02 PM

I purchased an HIS X1650XT Turbo Edition (overclocked from HIS) and it's working really well. I "borrowed" a 7600GS from CompUSA for a couple weeks while I was getting the money together for the X1650XT. I get great performance out of it - better than the 7600GS, I can run BF2142 at max settings and I'm getting 50-60 FPS, and that's with a lower end system - AMD Sempron 3000+, 1GB PC3200 RAM, SLOW Western Digital UDMA HDD, nothing special, but great performance from the graphics card. I also play Marvel:Ultimate Alliance, with all settings maxed, but shadows are on low, it runs great. The card supports FSAA and HDR simultaneously, and honestly, I haven't noticed slowdown from the HDR, it doesn't seem to degrade performance more than maybe 1FPS at most. If you don't want to upgrade your PSU and mess with all that, it's a great no hassle card.

A word of warning though: the Turbo Edition of the HIS X1650XT is overclocked from the factory - 630MHZ core instead of 575MHZ and 1460MHZ GDDR3 instead of 1380MHZ. While it has worked flawlessly for me in most games, I do have to use ATI Tool to underclock the card to factory core speed to play some games (for example Star Wars: Empire at War). I still play that game maxed out and get very good performance from it, but without underclocking for that game, the card crashes the computer. It's worth the performance increase (check out the HIS website and the specs of the Turbo vs. the standard 1650XT), but you'll have to tweak it down on some games.
February 22, 2007 10:05:25 PM

I just looked at the specifications for the 7900 GS and from what I see (at least with the eVGA cards) They do require the 6 pin connector. If your PSU doesn't have a 6 pin connector, you may still be able to use the card. This will only work if you have an extra HDD power dongle. The card comes with an adapter which converts it to a 6 pin connector.

As far as choices go,any of the three will play the games you want though each is slightly more expensive than the last. 7600GT<X1650XT<7900GS or so I believe. In the US, the 7600 GT can be found for under $100 on sale. Ths X1650XT can be found for under $135. The 7900GS for under $150, which to me makes it the best price/performer.
February 23, 2007 7:55:38 AM

Thank you very much for ur reply buddies.

Yup 7900GS does need a connector, happened to check out that yday.

Want to get a good price : performer card.

Will keep in mind what Dr_Asik pointed out,
HIS for X1650XT - Not sure whether its available in our part of the country.
BFG/EVGA for 7xxx series cards.

Will go for a 7900GS if its only say around 2000Rs higher than a 7600GT. ( 2000Rs = 45$ , here pci cards are marked up by 35-45% , insane, isnt it :(  )
Plus 7900GS consumes less power than a X1950Pro, 20W diff b/w em.
February 23, 2007 11:26:42 AM

Pretty much fixed my eyes on 7900GS (suitable for my 400W PSU n more value for money)

Just two final questions,
7900GS = 20 pixelshaders
X1950Pro = 36 pixelshaders

Does that difference affect much in the gameplay?.
Can the Intel 965RY mobo overclock?.
February 23, 2007 12:57:57 PM

Quote:

Just two final questions,
7900GS = 20 pixelshaders
X1950Pro = 36 pixelshaders

Does that difference affect much in the gameplay?.
Can the Intel 965RY mobo overclock?.


Not as much as you'd thinik, there's more at play:

7900 GS: 20 shaders, 20 TMUs
X1950 PRO: 36 shaders, 12 TMUs

The X1950 has a pixel shader advantage, but the 7900 GS has the texturing advantage. In the end they perform pretty closely, at stock speeds the X1950 PRO does have a bit of an advantage though, especially in new shader-heavy games.
February 23, 2007 3:05:27 PM

BFG , EVGA - 7900GS or someother brand?

Anything peculiar about them?
February 23, 2007 10:06:59 PM

Not really, I believe they both offer similar warranties. Evga does offer the step-up program that allows you to upgrade to a higher-level card (through them) within 90-days. You pay the difference between your old card and the new one. May not be available in your country though. Other than that, I'd get whichever one is cheaper.
February 24, 2007 4:35:34 AM

Quote:
Not really, I believe they both offer similar warranties. Evga does offer the step-up program that allows you to upgrade to a higher-level card (through them) within 90-days. You pay the difference between your old card and the new one. May not be available in your country though. Other than that, I'd get whichever one is cheaper.


Woow that wud have been gr8, if my retailer had provided such a service.

By the way, yesterday happened to come across something.
Read from BFG & EVGA specs of 7900GS that, it should have a minimum of 20A on the 12V rail, whereas i have only 14A, how big of a headache is it going to be if im planning to use my Mercury 400 W generic PSU itself ?

I have

14A on 12V1 &
13A on 12V2

are they asking for combined one or on 1 rail?

Will my psu be able to deliver?
February 24, 2007 6:42:09 PM

It's hard to say without more information. You need to know how much wattage BOTH 12V rails output (not the Max output of the entire PSU) together. Then divide that number by 12 (the voltage of the 12V rails) and it will give you the combined amperage across the 12V rails.

I checked Mercury's website and they didn't offer much info on the only 400W PSU listed on their site. I would say give it a shot. Do some heavy gaming once you put the card in. If the PSU is inadequate, thats where it will fold. Most likely the system will just restart. That being said, it could work just fine for a few months but as parts inside the PSU degrade over time with some heavy usage, the PSU will fold later on down the road.

For normal 2D stuff (i.e. non-gaming) it should work just fine with the 7900GS so you could limp along with the Mercury while saving up some extra cash for a better unit.

PC Power & Cooling make some of the best but they're very expensive. FSP (Fortron Source) make excellent units and can be reasonably priced. Antec's higher lines (TruePower and up) can be really good too. Stay away form the Antec SmartPower series as there have been a lot of people having issues with within a year of purchase. I've heard a lot of good things about the Mushkin Enhanced series of PSUs as well and I currently own their HP-550 model. I've only owned it for about a month so I cannot attest to it's long term reliability just yet. I think Clue69Less has owned one for quite awhile though.
February 25, 2007 5:20:45 AM

Thanks for the detailed explanation buddy.

Combined wattage (power) is given as 385W.

Wattage under, voltage column = 130 + 168 = 298W

so , 298/12 = ~25A , is that so?

{
under voltage column across 12V1 its given 14A and
under current column across 12v2 its given 13A
}
February 25, 2007 4:53:12 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation buddy.

Combined wattage (power) is given as 385W.

Wattage under, voltage column = 130 + 168 = 298W

so , 298/12 = ~25A , is that so?

{
under voltage column across 12V1 its given 14A and
under current column across 12v2 its given 13A
}


wont that be sufficient for a 7900GS :?: :?:
February 26, 2007 2:03:37 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation buddy.

Combined wattage (power) is given as 385W.

Wattage under, voltage column = 130 + 168 = 298W

so , 298/12 = ~25A , is that so?

{
under voltage column across 12V1 its given 14A and
under current column across 12v2 its given 13A
}


wont that be sufficient for a 7900GS :?: :?:

Can smone comment/suggest on this, please?
February 26, 2007 4:15:30 PM

No, either should have at least 18A individually. Even for a 7600GT. Which doesn't mean you need to buy an expensive PSU. I had to upgrade mine to an FSP-450 which costed 40$ and is plenty for what I have. Should also be enough for a 7900GS.
February 26, 2007 5:33:16 PM

Would it be possible to list all of the wattage, amperage & voltage data listed on the PSU label? That way we can be sure that you're using the right data to calculate the 12V rail info.

Remember, you ONLY calculate using the wattage listed as available on the 12V rails. Not all PSUs list the wattage available to each rail as well as what is available to the combined 12V rails.

If we find out that you correctly (don't take offense to this) figured the 12V info, then yes your current Mercury 400W PSU should be able to handle the 7900GS with your current setup.
February 27, 2007 5:09:48 AM

Well half of my headache subsides when I see posts by u pals, wont take it offensive.

Ok here goes,

Under, Voltage column across 12V1 its given 14A , power = "168W"
Combined power under, voltage column(taking 3.3V & 5V (130W)) = 130 + "168" = 298W

Under, Current column (here its given 12V2) across 12V2 its given 13A, power = 156W

Aggregate power is given as 385W.

Will that suffice?
February 27, 2007 6:44:34 AM

sorry to barge in, but in my opinion the correct answer should be : 168w (12V1)+156w (12V2)=324w and 324w/12 = ~ 27A ??

am i wrong?
February 27, 2007 3:09:39 PM

Quote:
sorry to barge in, but in my opinion the correct answer should be : 168w (12V1)+156w (12V2)=324w and 324w/12 = ~ 27A ??

am i wrong?


Im not sure too, waiting for the more experienced resources to comment :D 
February 27, 2007 5:41:16 PM

If any of the individual +12V doesn't have at least 18A then you will need to upgrade your PSU for any of the cards that have been discussed under this thread. It's not the sum of rails that count, it's what a single rail can deliver. Amperage on different rails do not add up, it partially adds up and partially splits between the rails. 18A on individual +12V is the minimum reccomended for modern video cards, all taken into consideration.
February 28, 2007 8:43:17 AM

Quote:
If any of the individual +12V doesn't have at least 18A then you will need to upgrade your PSU for any of the cards that have been discussed under this thread. It's not the sum of rails that count, it's what a single rail can deliver. Amperage on different rails do not add up, it partially adds up and partially splits between the rails. 18A on individual +12V is the minimum reccomended for modern video cards, all taken into consideration.


What you are saying is that we should look at a PSU with big per +12V rail Amps, and not to calculate the max Amps that that PSU can take from the both rails.

But why mpilchfamily in his thread PSU Reference List (US) shows us the PSUs with the total Amps that each PSU can take, and not the both +12V rails with their max Amps??

What should we believe? To buy a PSU with big +12V amps/rail or a PSU with big amps (25-30 amps and bigger ) per total on both rails?

My 350w Enermax PSU with max 26amps total (only one +12v rail) can handle right now A64 3200+ 939, 1.5 Gb ddr400, x1650xt Asus with extra power connector, 2 hdds, 1 optical drive, 1 tv tunner, 1 soundblaster live 24bit, and as mpilchfamily said in an old thread of mine, the same psu can handle even an C2D with ddr2 and an 7600gt.
February 28, 2007 3:28:15 PM

OK, I'm sure Dr Asik won't agree with me here but that is his call and I respect his input.

However, nemo2u PMd me asking me for more information what to do about this. Here was my initial response:

Quote:
I think if you look carefully, most of the those Power Requirements you've read indicate 20A on the 12V, not 20A on a single 12V rail. What I mean is that those requirements you've been reading are asking for a total of 20A of 12V power, whether it come from one rail, or multiple rails.

As long as those numbers you listed came directly from the label your PSU has sufficient power across the 12V rails to run the 7900GS. However, that can change over time as parts of the PSU degrade over time. I personally think from a numbers standpoint you're fine for now. It's the quality standpoint that you may run into issues over time.

I would use the Mercury for now but save up some cash for a good quality unit down the road as well as always be on the lookout for any good deals on the brands I listed in the post. A quality 500-600W PSU will last a long time and can be used in future builds as long the industry standards (currently ATX 2.0) stay the same and you don't get too crazy with SLI/Crossfire video card setups.


Later I told him to hold off while I get someone to confirm my advice. They did, so I'm sticking with the above advise.

Here's the deal, my advice still stands. Your current Mercury 400W unit will suffice as far as the numbers go. You see, more and more devices these days are running off of the 12V rails which is why everyone is recommending high powered units with high amperage on the 12V rails. However, according to Dr. Asik the 7900GS consumes 45W of power. The Conroe E6300 is rated at 65W, but that number looks to be closer to closer to 45W as well. For the sake of argument I'll pad those numbers and use 65W as the base number for the CPU.

GPU: 50W
CPU: 75W

For a total of 125W

125 / 12 = 10.5A (that's an approx number rounded up)
I'm being very generous on those numbers.

The smallest 12V rail you listed was at 13A while the other was at 14A. Even if you're not sure of which component was going on which rail your pretty well covered power wise.

If you didn't already have a PSU, then I would be telling you exactly what Dr. Asik is recommending but you already have one and I don't see the point in spending additional money right now if you can't. Especially if all you end up getting is another generic unit that has higher wattage and amperage numbers. Use this one for now and save up for a really good one like an PC Power & Cooling or a FSP a few months down the road. Right now the only thing I question with the Mercury is it's quality, meaning I wouldn't trust it to last for very long, so save up in the meantime and get yourself a good unit that is trustworthy.

Also, you haven't mentioned anything about overclocking but I doubted it based on your motherboard of purchase. If overclocking is involved, then I definitely recommend getting a quality PSU before you attempt any overclocking.
February 28, 2007 3:53:43 PM

wow AnooBis , simply wow !! applauds....

In such short time u gathered so much info for me, cool 8)

As u mentioned, eventhough it ll suffice my need right now we have no idea on how much long it ll hold on. Should go for a branded psu with ample resources in 3 or 4 months time.

I ll get my pci-e card in a few days & ll get back to u after sm hours of intense gaming.

Im extremely happy that i dont have to keep my fingers-crossed all the while with my current psu & can go on blasting in FEAR, Quake IV, HL2, DooM 3 n all w/o bogging my head on whats happening inside my psu :wink:
February 28, 2007 5:43:27 PM

If you're PSU is a generic unit, not a quality branded one like FSP, Antec, Seasonic, etc. AND if the +12V rating is less than 18A then you are absolutely taking a risk by plugging a 7900GS in that. 13A is very low. And I really did not say nor implied the 7900GS had a power consumption of 45W.

Please read: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... before doing anything stupid. A quality 400W unit like the FSP-400 packs 18A and 16A on respective +12V rails for a total of 25A, that's not for nothing.
February 28, 2007 6:01:55 PM

Quote:
And I really did not say nor implied the 7900GS had a power consumption of 45W.

You're absolutely right. That's my bad. The OP cross-posted the question here and jaguarskx indicated it with an Xbit link. I mixed up the info and I apologize for the confusion.
March 1, 2007 5:40:15 AM

Quote:
If you're PSU is a generic unit, not a quality branded one like FSP, Antec, Seasonic, etc. AND if the +12V rating is less than 18A then you are absolutely taking a risk by plugging a 7900GS in that. 13A is very low. And I really did not say nor implied the 7900GS had a power consumption of 45W.

Please read: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=... before doing anything stupid. A quality 400W unit like the FSP-400 packs 18A and 16A on respective +12V rails for a total of 25A, that's not for nothing.


I understand that a generic one wont do good if its for a long term purpose.
But as Anoobis pointed out, (lets be generous on those figures)
Consider CPU = 75W ( i have a core 2 duo E6300 )
GPU = 50W

125/12 = ~10.5A

The least one I have is 13A across 12V2, so with all due respect, cudnt that be taken into consideration , Dr_Asik?.

Or is it like, we have to see 18A labelled sticker on our psu across a 12V rail ?
And if its so bad, the outcome ll affect only my psu,rt? ll my card n mobo get burnt up?
March 1, 2007 5:40:55 PM

BFG 7900GS OC

Minimum system requirements:

A 350W PCI Express compliant system power supply (with 12V current rating of 22A or more)

http://www.bfgtech.com/7900GS_256_PCIX.html

So, please don't plug this in a 13A rail. :roll: Yes it can explode and damage your computer, and I don't guarantee something worse couldn't happen.

Quote:
You're absolutely right. That's my bad. The OP cross-posted the question here and jaguarskx indicated it with an Xbit link. I mixed up the info and I apologize for the confusion.
No offense taken. :) 
March 1, 2007 6:08:01 PM

The PSU can take out the motherboard and other components when it goes. It has happened and is a risk you take with generic or faulty units and is why we caution people on using generic units. Usually you will get warning signs beforehand though. Strange restarts for no reason, the system won't turn on immediately or will take several attempts pushing the power button to turn it on. If it cannot handle the video card, it will most likely restart during heavy 3D applications like games.

Another indicator are fluctuating voltages. Most motherboards have some sort of voltage monitoring capabilities. You might be able to set min and max values for these to trigger an alarm. The general rule of thumb is no more than a +-10% variance of the indicated voltage. Some people prefer a tighter tolerance of like +-5%, but the onboard voltage monitoring system may not be that accurate. If you set your min and max values using those guidelines and you start getting alarms that the voltage is fluctuating outside of them it's a good sign of either a poor quality PSU, or one that's about to go.
!