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Time Warner HD Cable STB

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August 8, 2004 5:32:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

(This is refering to TWC's newest HD Cable box.)

With the STB set at 1080i, does anyone else find the non-HD channels to look
fairly bad?
(Quite a bit of video noise and blur, that is.)

TWC didn't leave a manual for the box, but from the settings menu (holding
'#' down), I found that the output could be set to 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i,
and "Pass". I'm guessing that "Pass" means that the box will simply pass
whatever broadcast resolution the channel is being received on and simply
pass it to the TV. I changed it to "Pass" and now the regular 480i channels
look like they are supposed to, plus the 1080i channels look like they are
supposed to. (There is a now a momentary pause between changing between
regular channels and 1080i HD channels, accompained with a screen flicker.
I'm assuming this is just because the TV has to change modes.)

(Also noticed that if 480i or 480p is chosen, the box still puts at 1080i
for those channels.)

Just keeping it set on "Pass" would be great, except now I can't view the
720p channels without changing the STB settings back to 1080i. (HDTV I'm
using doesn't support 720p). Wouldn't really care and would find this as
just a minor annoyance, except that I do enjoy a couple 720p channels and it
has become quite annoying switching all the time.

Do all STB's create this type of video noise when converting everything to
1080i? I don't see why the box wants to convert 480 to 1080i anyway? It
seems it would make better sense for it to just pass the 480i broadcasts
without any conversion (except to 480p, if you want), pass the 1080i, and
convert 720p to 1080i. (Most HDTV's, it seems now, only support 480i, 480p,
and 1080i. If they do anything with 720p, they convert it to 1080i.
Unfortunetly my HDTV can't do anything with 720p.)

I'm using component cables with the box. This box, however, does have a DVI
output. My HDTV also has HDMI inputs. Would getting a DVI-to-HDMI cable
solve the video noise problem with 480 channels and the box set at 1080i?
I've also read that some cable companies have disabled the DVI outputs on
their boxes if the DVI doesn't support copy protection. I believe this box
does have DVI with copy protection though. When they brought the box, I
asked if the DVI output could be used if I purchased a cable and he really
didn't have an answer. (Actually, I think he didn't even know. Hell, he
didn't even configure the box's screen size. I had to change it from 4:3 to
16:9 myself later.)

Thanks...

More about : time warner cable stb

Anonymous
August 8, 2004 10:06:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Eric wrote:

> (This is refering to TWC's newest HD Cable box.)
>
> With the STB set at 1080i, does anyone else find the non-HD channels to look
> fairly bad?
> (Quite a bit of video noise and blur, that is.)
>
> TWC didn't leave a manual for the box, but from the settings menu (holding
> '#' down), I found that the output could be set to 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i,
> and "Pass". I'm guessing that "Pass" means that the box will simply pass
> whatever broadcast resolution the channel is being received on and simply
> pass it to the TV. I changed it to "Pass" and now the regular 480i channels
> look like they are supposed to, plus the 1080i channels look like they are
> supposed to. (There is a now a momentary pause between changing between
> regular channels and 1080i HD channels, accompained with a screen flicker.
> I'm assuming this is just because the TV has to change modes.)
>
> (Also noticed that if 480i or 480p is chosen, the box still puts at 1080i
> for those channels.)
>
> Just keeping it set on "Pass" would be great, except now I can't view the
> 720p channels without changing the STB settings back to 1080i. (HDTV I'm
> using doesn't support 720p). Wouldn't really care and would find this as
> just a minor annoyance, except that I do enjoy a couple 720p channels and it
> has become quite annoying switching all the time.
>
> Do all STB's create this type of video noise when converting everything to
> 1080i? I don't see why the box wants to convert 480 to 1080i anyway? It
> seems it would make better sense for it to just pass the 480i broadcasts
> without any conversion (except to 480p, if you want), pass the 1080i, and
> convert 720p to 1080i. (Most HDTV's, it seems now, only support 480i, 480p,
> and 1080i. If they do anything with 720p, they convert it to 1080i.
> Unfortunetly my HDTV can't do anything with 720p.)
>
> I'm using component cables with the box. This box, however, does have a DVI
> output. My HDTV also has HDMI inputs. Would getting a DVI-to-HDMI cable
> solve the video noise problem with 480 channels and the box set at 1080i?
> I've also read that some cable companies have disabled the DVI outputs on
> their boxes if the DVI doesn't support copy protection. I believe this box
> does have DVI with copy protection though. When they brought the box, I
> asked if the DVI output could be used if I purchased a cable and he really
> didn't have an answer. (Actually, I think he didn't even know. Hell, he
> didn't even configure the box's screen size. I had to change it from 4:3 to
> 16:9 myself later.)
>
> Thanks...
>
>
>
>
>

As most point out, the best way of
determining whether DVI beats YPbPr is a
comparison. DVI or HDMI is really meant for
all-digital displays such as plasmas or DLP
sets. Other convert the signals to analog
before display.

Many discover that 480i appears best using
S-video out/in, not YPbPr throughout.
Component is best for H/DTV. My Time Warner
older 3100HD only puts out 1080i from YPbPr,
and on my high-end 1080i CRT RPTV, 480i
upconverted by the 3100HD's cheap
upconversion circuit looks fuzzy and washed
out. S-video or even video out looks much
better, not surprisingly since much 480i
doesn't originate as a YPbPr signal but as a
composite analog signal. I've set another
converter up for both 480p and 1080i (DCT6208
from RCN cable). This setting delivers 480p
or 1080i to my RPTV's HD component jacks,
although the 480p is poorly stretched from
4:3 to 16:9. An S-video DCT6208 output,
stretched by my RPTV's circuits, looks better.
John
August 9, 2004 1:02:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> As most point out, the best way of
> determining whether DVI beats YPbPr is a
> comparison. DVI or HDMI is really meant for
> all-digital displays such as plasmas or DLP
> sets. Other convert the signals to analog
> before display.
>
> Many discover that 480i appears best using
> S-video out/in, not YPbPr throughout.
> Component is best for H/DTV. My Time Warner
> older 3100HD only puts out 1080i from YPbPr,
> and on my high-end 1080i CRT RPTV, 480i
> upconverted by the 3100HD's cheap
> upconversion circuit looks fuzzy and washed
> out. S-video or even video out looks much
> better, not surprisingly since much 480i
> doesn't originate as a YPbPr signal but as a
> composite analog signal. I've set another
> converter up for both 480p and 1080i (DCT6208
> from RCN cable). This setting delivers 480p
> or 1080i to my RPTV's HD component jacks,
> although the 480p is poorly stretched from
> 4:3 to 16:9. An S-video DCT6208 output,
> stretched by my RPTV's circuits, looks better.
> John

Thanks. I just looked at my STB from TWC and it is a Pace DC550P.

I'm going to do a full search later and see if I can locate a manual for
this thing.
(I just did a quick google, but most sites just have the "Quick Reference
Guide", which I already have.)

I haven't yet tried using an S-video cable for the regular 480i channels,
but it makes sense why it should give better quality.
(480i going through component looks decent enough though, but if it's
converted to 1080i it looks horrible. Even converting it to 480p with this
STB loses quite a bit of quality as well. Native 480p on this HDTV set
looks great though, judging from a progressive DVD player I use with it and
the X-Box.)

Using both component cables (for 720p/1080i) and an S-video cable (for 480i)
may be an option. The question I would have with that is if the STB outputs
both the S-Video and DVI (for 480i) at the same time. (I.e., could the
STB's setting be set at 1080i for the HDTV channels and then when you switch
to regular channels, all you have to do is use the TV remote to switch from
DVI to S-Video input.) Wouldn't mind doing that, as that would be much less
of annoyance than going through the STB's menu. Hopefully I'll find a
manual.

I wish this HDTV could handle 720p (if not natively display it, at least
convert it.) Then everything would work fine set to "Pass".

I wonder why not many HDTV's support 720p (not even converting)? Doesn't
make much sense with as much 720p broadcasting there is (ESPN, ABC, X-Box,
etc).

Thanks...!
Related resources
August 9, 2004 1:10:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> I'm going to do a full search later and see if I can locate a manual for
> this thing.
> (I just did a quick google, but most sites just have the "Quick Reference
> Guide", which I already have.)

Doh!

First site listed in search, which I overlooked. :^)

http://www.pacemicro.com/products/manuals/Pace_DC-550_O...
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 10:10:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The S-video output is usually active (for vcrs, etc) even when the signal is
being sent through component or DVI on most/all HD cable boxes. S-video is
typically the best setting for 480i since it will use the comb filter in the
display device, which is typically better than the comb filter in the STB
(if it even has one). The reason that most TVs do not have a 720p mode is
that its harder to manufacture a 720p CRT than a 1080i CRT. Typically only
front projection TVs are capable of 720p (in the CRT realm). in the digital
LCD/DLP realm 720p is the more common format.

IMO, the Pioneer V3510HD is the box to have. It can be set to output in
any or all of the SD/HD formats. I have mine set up to output in 480i,
480p, 720p or 1080i depending on what the input signal is. (I have a front
projection CRT.) If you had this box then you could remove 720p from the
list of accepted output formats and the box would convert 720p to 1080i. I
don't understand why more manufacturers don't do this, it provides the best
compatibility with a customer's HD display equipment.

--Brian K. White

"Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:10hdj8apsgodgc9@corp.supernews.com...
> > As most point out, the best way of
> > determining whether DVI beats YPbPr is a
> > comparison. DVI or HDMI is really meant for
> > all-digital displays such as plasmas or DLP
> > sets. Other convert the signals to analog
> > before display.
> >
> > Many discover that 480i appears best using
> > S-video out/in, not YPbPr throughout.
> > Component is best for H/DTV. My Time Warner
> > older 3100HD only puts out 1080i from YPbPr,
> > and on my high-end 1080i CRT RPTV, 480i
> > upconverted by the 3100HD's cheap
> > upconversion circuit looks fuzzy and washed
> > out. S-video or even video out looks much
> > better, not surprisingly since much 480i
> > doesn't originate as a YPbPr signal but as a
> > composite analog signal. I've set another
> > converter up for both 480p and 1080i (DCT6208
> > from RCN cable). This setting delivers 480p
> > or 1080i to my RPTV's HD component jacks,
> > although the 480p is poorly stretched from
> > 4:3 to 16:9. An S-video DCT6208 output,
> > stretched by my RPTV's circuits, looks better.
> > John
>
> Thanks. I just looked at my STB from TWC and it is a Pace DC550P.
>
> I'm going to do a full search later and see if I can locate a manual for
> this thing.
> (I just did a quick google, but most sites just have the "Quick Reference
> Guide", which I already have.)
>
> I haven't yet tried using an S-video cable for the regular 480i channels,
> but it makes sense why it should give better quality.
> (480i going through component looks decent enough though, but if it's
> converted to 1080i it looks horrible. Even converting it to 480p with this
> STB loses quite a bit of quality as well. Native 480p on this HDTV set
> looks great though, judging from a progressive DVD player I use with it
and
> the X-Box.)
>
> Using both component cables (for 720p/1080i) and an S-video cable (for
480i)
> may be an option. The question I would have with that is if the STB
outputs
> both the S-Video and DVI (for 480i) at the same time. (I.e., could the
> STB's setting be set at 1080i for the HDTV channels and then when you
switch
> to regular channels, all you have to do is use the TV remote to switch
from
> DVI to S-Video input.) Wouldn't mind doing that, as that would be much
less
> of annoyance than going through the STB's menu. Hopefully I'll find a
> manual.
>
> I wish this HDTV could handle 720p (if not natively display it, at least
> convert it.) Then everything would work fine set to "Pass".
>
> I wonder why not many HDTV's support 720p (not even converting)? Doesn't
> make much sense with as much 720p broadcasting there is (ESPN, ABC, X-Box,
> etc).
>
> Thanks...!
>
>
>
>
August 9, 2004 2:37:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> The S-video output is usually active (for vcrs, etc) even when the signal
is
> being sent through component or DVI on most/all HD cable boxes. S-video
is
> typically the best setting for 480i since it will use the comb filter in
the
> display device, which is typically better than the comb filter in the STB
> (if it even has one). The reason that most TVs do not have a 720p mode is
> that its harder to manufacture a 720p CRT than a 1080i CRT. Typically
only
> front projection TVs are capable of 720p (in the CRT realm). in the
digital
> LCD/DLP realm 720p is the more common format.
>
> IMO, the Pioneer V3510HD is the box to have. It can be set to output in
> any or all of the SD/HD formats. I have mine set up to output in 480i,
> 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on what the input signal is. (I have a
front
> projection CRT.) If you had this box then you could remove 720p from the
> list of accepted output formats and the box would convert 720p to 1080i.
I
> don't understand why more manufacturers don't do this, it provides the
best
> compatibility with a customer's HD display equipment.
>

Thanks. I wasn't aware that 720p was more difficult to manufacture for
CRT's. That makes sense then.

I picked up an S-Video cable this morning and gave it a try. It does appear
that, with the cable STB set at 1080i for component output, it does simply
just pass 480i through the S-Video for the SD channels. I was hoping to not
have to do anything manual "mode changes" between SD and HD, but I suppose
just hitting the Video mode button on the TV's remote is less cumbersome
than going into the STB's menu everytime to switch between SD and HD. :^)

I take it the Pioneer V3510HD is a cable STB? How is the translation of
resolutions? I'm not too impressed with this Pace DC550P. A google last
night led me web forums where others posted that they weren't too impressed
with conversions either. The STB is small (its touted as the "smallest HD
cable box"), and does have many outputs (DVI, component, S-vid, compostive,
fiber audio, etc) and loop passes, but it's lacking on features that allow
customization of resolution outputs. It would be great if it could be set
to pass 480i straight through the component cable, convert 720p to 1080i,
and pass 1080i. (I didn't notice too much of a difference 480i going
through component versus S-video. S-video may be slightly "better", but its
very subtle.)

Thanks!
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 12:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The Pioneer unit is one of two STBs issued by Time Warner HD cable in my
area.

The Pioneer V3510HD rocks. Picture quality is good (not poor and not
excellent). But the main thing is configurability. You just tell it what
resolutions your television supports and your are done. Note the "S" on
resolutions. In your case, you could simply tell it that your TV supports
480I and 1080I and it would do the rest. 480I and 1080I would be passed
through directly and 720P would be converted to 1080I.

I use component video almost exclusively. Switching to S-Video is more of a
nuisance that the marginal increase in picture quality. For my display,
changing the input source is a major pain in the butt. Although my TV
supports 720P natively (in addition to 1080I), I turned off the 720P to
compare the conversion. IMO 720P converted to 1080I did not look quite as
good as 1080I native but this was not an apples to apples comparison since
there are not any programs broadcast in both formats. (I made my
comparisons using two separate channels.)

--Brian

"Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:10hf30f14k8sn78@corp.supernews.com...
> > The S-video output is usually active (for vcrs, etc) even when the
signal
> is
> > being sent through component or DVI on most/all HD cable boxes. S-video
> is
> > typically the best setting for 480i since it will use the comb filter in
> the
> > display device, which is typically better than the comb filter in the
STB
> > (if it even has one). The reason that most TVs do not have a 720p mode
is
> > that its harder to manufacture a 720p CRT than a 1080i CRT. Typically
> only
> > front projection TVs are capable of 720p (in the CRT realm). in the
> digital
> > LCD/DLP realm 720p is the more common format.
> >
> > IMO, the Pioneer V3510HD is the box to have. It can be set to output
in
> > any or all of the SD/HD formats. I have mine set up to output in 480i,
> > 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on what the input signal is. (I have a
> front
> > projection CRT.) If you had this box then you could remove 720p from
the
> > list of accepted output formats and the box would convert 720p to 1080i.
> I
> > don't understand why more manufacturers don't do this, it provides the
> best
> > compatibility with a customer's HD display equipment.
> >
>
> Thanks. I wasn't aware that 720p was more difficult to manufacture for
> CRT's. That makes sense then.
>
> I picked up an S-Video cable this morning and gave it a try. It does
appear
> that, with the cable STB set at 1080i for component output, it does simply
> just pass 480i through the S-Video for the SD channels. I was hoping to
not
> have to do anything manual "mode changes" between SD and HD, but I suppose
> just hitting the Video mode button on the TV's remote is less cumbersome
> than going into the STB's menu everytime to switch between SD and HD. :^)
>
> I take it the Pioneer V3510HD is a cable STB? How is the translation of
> resolutions? I'm not too impressed with this Pace DC550P. A google last
> night led me web forums where others posted that they weren't too
impressed
> with conversions either. The STB is small (its touted as the "smallest HD
> cable box"), and does have many outputs (DVI, component, S-vid,
compostive,
> fiber audio, etc) and loop passes, but it's lacking on features that allow
> customization of resolution outputs. It would be great if it could be set
> to pass 480i straight through the component cable, convert 720p to 1080i,
> and pass 1080i. (I didn't notice too much of a difference 480i going
> through component versus S-video. S-video may be slightly "better", but
its
> very subtle.)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
!