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Mitsubishi Red Color Problem

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Anonymous
August 9, 2004 5:22:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
raised.

in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
color his picture looks pretty bad.

he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.

can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?

tia...
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 11:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Skeets" <skillet3232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:756b5cd1.0408090022.5eb5e0d6@posting.google.com...
> my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
> reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
> bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
> raised.
>
> in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
> color his picture looks pretty bad.
>
> he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
>
> can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
> defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
>
> tia...

There is a model number on the back of the set.

Is the growth of the splotch to the right of the red in the image? Your
description is not very clear.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 11:22:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Possible the crt{s} are becoming weak and you are seeing solarization due to
loss of emission within the crts.
"Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:CYIRc.16385$Bb.199@lakeread08...
>
> "Skeets" <skillet3232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:756b5cd1.0408090022.5eb5e0d6@posting.google.com...
> > my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> > when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
> > reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
> > bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
> > raised.
> >
> > in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
> > color his picture looks pretty bad.
> >
> > he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
> >
> > can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
> > defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
> >
> > tia...
>
> There is a model number on the back of the set.
>
> Is the growth of the splotch to the right of the red in the image? Your
> description is not very clear.
>
> Leonard
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 12:24:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Skeets" <skillet3232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:756b5cd1.0408090022.5eb5e0d6@posting.google.com...
> my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
> reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
> bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
> raised.
>
> in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
> color his picture looks pretty bad.
>
> he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
>
> can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
> defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
>
> tia...
RED video smearing to the right on high contrast scenes (or high color).
Turning the contrast or brightness down eliminates the problem. Can be
caused by weak RED CRT, low screen voltage or RED drive set too high.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 1:55:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I also had this problem with a 65" Mits I got two years ago. The problem
showed up when I used the NTSC tunner built into the set. DVD's were fine.
The problem was eliminated with a DirecTV HD tuner. Now I use the
tuner in the Zenith HDSAT 520 for all Signals and the picture is great. The
tuner outputs 1080i over component video for all inputs; DirecTV, OTA
(HD and SD), and cable.

Hope this helps.
Mike Jones

"Skeets" <skillet3232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:756b5cd1.0408090022.5eb5e0d6@posting.google.com...
> my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
> reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
> bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
> raised.
>
> in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
> color his picture looks pretty bad.
>
> he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
>
> can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
> defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
>
> tia...
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 5:36:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

sorry for the not clear descriptions. it doesn't matter where the red
is - it can be lips, a shirt, a car - doesn't matter. the splotching
occurs all over the screen - wherever the red is.

i think the "solarization" response is probably the one that most fits
what is happening here - but if anyone has any other input, please do
tell...

tia...

skillet3232@yahoo.com (Skeets) wrote in message news:<756b5cd1.0408090022.5eb5e0d6@posting.google.com>...
> my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
> reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
> bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
> raised.
>
> in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
> color his picture looks pretty bad.
>
> he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
>
> can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
> defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
>
> tia...
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 8:27:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

This is a seemingly common problem with Mitsubishi sets. A friend had 2 Mitsus
(1 tube and 1 RPTV) both exhibited this problem, and it usually gets worse over
time.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 8:27:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040809122722.19243.00002974@mb-m04.aol.com...
> This is a seemingly common problem with Mitsubishi sets. A friend had 2
Mitsus
> (1 tube and 1 RPTV) both exhibited this problem, and it usually gets worse
over
> time.

So what was the diagnosis and the solution? What were the model numbers?
How old were the sets?

Leonard
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 10:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>So what was the diagnosis and the solution?

Beats me. But I know the tube needed to be repaired in regards to this exact
problem at least twice, most recently about 2 months ago.

>What were the model numbers?

I don't know off-hand. The tube is a 34-inch, I believe, and from the
mid-1990s. The RPTV is a smallish unit (as far as RPTVs are concerned), under
60-inches and about 3 years old. It's an analog 4:3 set.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 10:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040809140951.19192.00003062@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >So what was the diagnosis and the solution?
>
> Beats me. But I know the tube needed to be repaired in regards to this
exact
> problem at least twice, most recently about 2 months ago.
>
> >What were the model numbers?
>
> I don't know off-hand. The tube is a 34-inch, I believe, and from the
> mid-1990s. The RPTV is a smallish unit (as far as RPTVs are concerned),
under
> 60-inches and about 3 years old. It's an analog 4:3 set.

Just curious. I have been servicing Mitsubishi television sets since 1979
and CRT problems are rare, particularly with the larger direct view CRTs
(that unfortunately they no longer make). With RPTV, tube problems are also
rare, though a few sets have had bad focus assemblies that cause CRT
failures or will confuse a servicer into thinking that the CRT is bad.
Many CRTs will "flare" near the end of their useful life (in terms of
emission at the cathode). The only service that is possible on a CRT for
this problem is sometimes "restoration" or "rejuvenation". If the set was
serviced twice for the problem it was likely a video drive problem rather
than the actual CRT, particurly at the age described.

It is certainly not a typical problem for mitsubishi sets, IME.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 11:35:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Skeets" <skillet3232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:756b5cd1.0408091236.d980128@posting.google.com...
> sorry for the not clear descriptions. it doesn't matter where the red
> is - it can be lips, a shirt, a car - doesn't matter. the splotching
> occurs all over the screen - wherever the red is.
>
> i think the "solarization" response is probably the one that most fits
> what is happening here - but if anyone has any other input, please do
> tell...

Not much more input unless you can supply a model number...

Leonard
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 2:17:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>It is certainly not a typical problem for mitsubishi sets, IME.
>

I'll take your word for it - as a tech. I just know that this same family had 2
different Mitsu TVs exhibit pretty severe problems involving red "splashing"
and "haloing", etc... and that the tube needed to be repaired twice in regards
to this problem. I've always found Mitsubishi TVs to be very red and it's kept
us from having one here at home, so I don't have any first-hand experience with
their reliability. However, the newer Platinum Series sets with the 9-inch CRTs
are very attractive and I wonder if an ISF calibration would have as much
effect on one of the Mitsus as it has had on the Sony and Pioneer Elite RPTVs
I've seen.
August 10, 2004 6:14:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 9 Aug 2004 01:22:11 -0700, skillet3232@yahoo.com (Skeets) wrote:

>my friend has a 65" mitsubishi hd 1080 series tv (bought 1999 - 2001).
> when the color level is raised beyond about 1/6th of the way up, the
>reds "splotch" - not sure what the technical term is. it is like a
>bright spot appears within the red and will grow as the color level is
>raised.
>
>in order to mitigate this red splotching, he has to lose so much
>color his picture looks pretty bad.
>
>he's had a tech out to look at the tv and they didn't know much.
>
>can anybody give me an idea of what is happening here (is it a
>defective red gun?) so I can help out my friend?
>
>tia...


Sounld like it might be the "Red Push" as it was once called. Home
theatre spot forum has a thread on this.

Here is a link to one thread, it a list a parts you can get a radio
shack to solve this, if it is the "Red Push". cost under $10


http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?...
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 6:38:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Sounld like it might be the "Red Push" as it was once called. Home
>theatre spot forum has a thread on this.
>

Red Push does not cause bleeding, it's a term used to refer to sets that have
very "warm" color temperatures, which consequently make reds look over
pronounced.
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 12:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"fred" <nus@tenretni.moc> wrote in message
news:k33gh0t6cdv692e2h55st289mcgs6ho973@4ax.com...

> Sounld like it might be the "Red Push" as it was once called. Home

Red push is a very slight shift in the color decoding toward red, giving
things a slightly more red tint. It would not be causing this kind of
problem, though it might exacerbate it.

Red push is a very overstated problem.

Leonard.
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 12:27:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard G. Caillouet" <lcaillo_ns_@devoynet.com> wrote in message
news:%iORc.1394$zt3.1006@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040809122722.19243.00002974@mb-m04.aol.com...
> > This is a seemingly common problem with Mitsubishi sets. A friend had 2
> Mitsus
> > (1 tube and 1 RPTV) both exhibited this problem, and it usually gets
worse
> over
> > time.
>
> So what was the diagnosis and the solution? What were the model numbers?
> How old were the sets?
>
> Leonard
>
>
MGA had, 2 years ago on their proj tv's, a problem with a couple of auto
kinebias transistors shorting when the picture tube arced. That caused too
much brightness. If someone reduced the screens to compensate rather than
replacing the bad transistors that could cause the problem. "SCREEN control
too low"
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 2:34:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sOOdnejNkPHeIoXcRVn-rg@comcast.com...
>
> "Leonard G. Caillouet" <lcaillo_ns_@devoynet.com> wrote in message
> news:%iORc.1394$zt3.1006@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> >
> > "Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040809122722.19243.00002974@mb-m04.aol.com...
> > > This is a seemingly common problem with Mitsubishi sets. A friend had
2
> > Mitsus
> > > (1 tube and 1 RPTV) both exhibited this problem, and it usually gets
> worse
> > over
> > > time.
> >
> > So what was the diagnosis and the solution? What were the model
numbers?
> > How old were the sets?
> >
> > Leonard
> >
> >
> MGA had, 2 years ago on their proj tv's, a problem with a couple of auto
> kinebias transistors shorting when the picture tube arced. That caused
too
> much brightness. If someone reduced the screens to compensate rather than
> replacing the bad transistors that could cause the problem. "SCREEN
control
> too low"

Correct and a good possibility since he said it was serviced more than once.
With a model number someone could have checked for more specific
information.

BTW, MGA was a trade name that is no longer. Mitsubishi has been Mitsubishi
Digital Electronics America for some time. Ironically, it is probably one
of the closest to being a US TV manufacturer that we have anymore.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 3:47:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Red push is a very overstated problem.

I find it to be a very BIG problem, as I'm sensitive to color shifts and the
red push that Mitsu sets tend to exhibit bothers me. However, I've seen Sony
and Pioneer Elite sets tuned to *perfection* despite their own color issues,
after an ISF calibration. Any serious owner who has invested thousands of
dollars into a display should pay to have the calibration performed.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 3:47:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040810194743.15036.00001302@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >Red push is a very overstated problem.
>
> I find it to be a very BIG problem, as I'm sensitive to color shifts and
the
> red push that Mitsu sets tend to exhibit bothers me. However, I've seen
Sony
> and Pioneer Elite sets tuned to *perfection* despite their own color
issues,
> after an ISF calibration. Any serious owner who has invested thousands of
> dollars into a display should pay to have the calibration performed.

Many people confuse improper gray scale tracking with color decoding
problems. Once properly aligned, red push is a minor issue. If you still
don't like it you should not tolerate it. You should, however, understand
where it comes from and its relative significance. Also, Mitsubishi has
largely eliminated the red push problem and has included RGBCYM settings in
the consumer menus on the last two chassis designs, making it possible to
set the color to virtually anyone's preference.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:25:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>Many people confuse improper gray scale tracking with color decoding
>problems

I'm generally pretty good at picking out color-decoding issues, but I may have
made a mistake or two in my identification.

> Once properly aligned, red push is a minor issue

I agree...to an extent. How minor it is depends on how prevalent it is and how
bothersome I find it. However, Sony sets tend to have a *very* minor red push
with a much more pronounced white/blue push and I've seen those issues
corrected entirely with calibration. Pioneer's Elite sets (among my favorites)
tend to come off a little yellow/green occasionally (thanks in large part to a
native color temp. of 6500k) but I've seen them corrected to perfection as
well.

>If you still
>don't like it you should not tolerate it.

Of course not. The entire reason why so many TV manufacturers can exist is
because they all have different pictures to cater to different viewers.
However, we should all recognize that Sony, Pioneer, Mitsubishi and even
Hitachi all make a very high-quality RPTV and that with calibration any of them
can be set to near-perfection and throughly even the playing field.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 4:25:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040810202521.06719.00002896@mb-m13.aol.com...
> >Many people confuse improper gray scale tracking with color decoding
> >problems
>
> I'm generally pretty good at picking out color-decoding issues, but I may
have
> made a mistake or two in my identification.
>
> > Once properly aligned, red push is a minor issue
>
> I agree...to an extent. How minor it is depends on how prevalent it is and
how
> bothersome I find it. However, Sony sets tend to have a *very* minor red
push
> with a much more pronounced white/blue push and I've seen those issues
> corrected entirely with calibration. Pioneer's Elite sets (among my
favorites)
> tend to come off a little yellow/green occasionally (thanks in large part
to a
> native color temp. of 6500k) but I've seen them corrected to perfection as
> well.
>
> >If you still
> >don't like it you should not tolerate it.
>
> Of course not. The entire reason why so many TV manufacturers can exist is
> because they all have different pictures to cater to different viewers.
> However, we should all recognize that Sony, Pioneer, Mitsubishi and even
> Hitachi all make a very high-quality RPTV and that with calibration any of
them
> can be set to near-perfection and throughly even the playing field.

I agree completely, only I'd not consider Hitachi a near competitor but an
equal to any of them. The higher end Toshiba sets have some nice qualities
as well. Each has subtle pros and cons and these can vary model to model.
Of course, these generalizations are for CRT based products and may not
carry over to LCD and DLP based sets.

Leonard
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 5:29:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040809223806.25422.00003137@mb-m29.aol.com...
> >Sounld like it might be the "Red Push" as it was once called. Home
> >theatre spot forum has a thread on this.
> >
>
> Red Push does not cause bleeding, it's a term used to refer to sets that
have
> very "warm" color temperatures, which consequently make reds look over
> pronounced.

It isn't the color temperature (grayscale), it is the color decoder
emphasizing red. Sometimes it is done to compensate for a grayscale that is
too blue, so that skin tones remain a pleasant pink. It can cause bleeding
of red if the saturation (color) is turned up high enough to give the proper
levels of blue and green.

I do not know if this is what the original poster was experiencing.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 7:46:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>The higher end Toshiba sets have some nice qualities
>as well.

>The higher end Toshiba sets have some nice qualities
>as well.

I really, really like Toshiba's Cinema Series HD-tubes and I very much like
their RPTVs as well. All of these are good companies.

>Of course, these generalizations are for CRT based products and may not
>carry over to LCD and DLP based sets.

Of course. I personally don't really like Plasma, LCD or DLP sets, my
preference still sits with tube and CRT-Lens based RPTVs, so I rarely ever
bring the others into the conversation.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 7:47:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> It can cause bleeding
>of red if the saturation (color) is turned up high enough to give the proper
>levels of blue and green.

I've never seen the color alone cause bleeding in a tube or RPTV.
!