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[R/S][COL][Eventually FR/LG] So... what's good?

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Anonymous
June 27, 2004 3:28:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

I'm a bit out of the loop now as far as modern Pokémon strategy goes.
My only opponent in link battles is my ten-year-old brother (whose
entire strategic knowledge comes from what he's picked up from me, so
there's not much I can learn from battling him--we mostly just try to
counter each other's strategies), and I've just about reached the
limits of what battling the Colliseum computer can teach me. And it
doesn't help that I haven't been around here much.

So... how good are the new moves (especially the TMs)? Which new
Pokémon are worth raising seriously, and which ones should I just
daycare, evolve, and abandon? Which types tend to be more useful than
others? What do I need to think about in single battles now? How
much different are double battles--what doesn't work, and what extra
things do I need to look out for?

As far as specific questions, is Illumise or Volbeat worth raising
(and which one)? What do Helping Hand and the Plus/Minus abilities
actually do? Which Pokémon demand my elemental stones now, and where
do I get the stones to use on them? And how do I get this goddamned
Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?

In short, what's been going on for the past year or so?

-Andrusi &&
Sanity not included.

More about : col eventually good

Anonymous
June 28, 2004 12:13:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

"Andrusi" <asverner@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote in message
news:D 95427ae.0406271028.2b4c0a72@posting.google.com...
> I'm a bit out of the loop now as far as modern Pokémon strategy goes.
> And it doesn't help that I haven't been around here much.

Hi! Long time no read!
I don't even get to battle in link battles, so you ahead of me there.

> So... how good are the new moves (especially the TMs)? Which new
> Pokémon are worth raising seriously, and which ones should I just
> daycare, evolve, and abandon? Which types tend to be more useful than
> others? What do I need to think about in single battles now? How
> much different are double battles--what doesn't work, and what extra
> things do I need to look out for?

I'm sure that (many) someone (s) will answer these. Please? ;) 

> As far as specific questions, is Illumise or Volbeat worth raising
> (and which one)? What do Helping Hand and the Plus/Minus abilities
> actually do? Which Pokémon demand my elemental stones now, and where
> do I get the stones to use on them? And how do I get this goddamned
> Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?

I don't know about the bugs, but apparently Wurmple is a random evolver.
You could just cruise around the Woods for a Cascoon, or trade one from the
other game. I also am very vague on Plusle/Minus.

But from Beth I got a list of Stone Evolve pokes and such:

" I believe that there is one of each stone hidden in the game, and that
additional stones can only be obtained from wild Pokemon (usually in
the form of Shards, but Solrock/Lunatone carry Sun and Moon stones,
respectively).

These are the Pokemon that require Stones or other items to evolve:

Lombre - Water Stone
Nuzleaf - Leaf Stone
Gloom - Leaf/Sun Stone
Staryu - Water Stone
Vulpix - Fire Stone
Pikachu - Thunder Stone
Jigglypuff - Moon Stone
Skitty - Moon Stone

Seadra is the only Pokemon that requires a Dragon Scale to evolve.

Clamperl evolves into one of its two forms when equipped with a Deep
Sea Tooth or Deep Sea Scale and traded, but you can only get one of
those items per game, and they aren't carried by any of the wild
Pokemon."

Somewhere else I got a list of Items on wild pokes that you can Thief or
Covet:

Blue Shard: Clamperl (ocean floor)
Yellow Shard: Chinchou
Green Shard: Relicanth (horribly rare on the ocean floor)
Red Shard: Corsola (fish in the larger sea areas)
Moon Stone: Lunatone (Sapphire only)
Sun Stone: Solrock (Ruby only)

You take the Shards to the guy on the island just outside of Mossport, he
gives you Stones.

Evolution items:

Metal Coat: Magnemite and Magneton (New Mauville)
Dragon Scale: Horsea (fish in the long sea stretch) and Bagon (Meteor Falls)
King's Rock: Hariyama (Victory Road)

Money items:

Nugget: Grimer (Fiery Path)
Stardust and Star Piece: Staryu (fish...Lilycove)
Big Pearl: Gulpin (above Slateport)

Power-ups:

Light Ball: Pikachu (Safari Zone)
Soft Sand: Trapinch (Desert)
Sharp Beak: Doduo and Dodrio (both in the Safari Zone)
Poison Barb: Cacnea (Desert) and Roselia (the route outside the Daycare
Center)
Hard Stone: Aron and Lairon (various caves)
Twistedspoon: Abra (Granite Cave)

Miscellaneous items:

Heart Scale: Luvdisc (fish in the larger sea areas)
Smoke Ball: Koffing (Fiery Path)
Quick Claw: Sandshrew (Desert)
Everstone: Geodude and Graveler (Rock Smash and in various caves)
Spell Tag: Shuppet, Banette, Duskull and Dusclops (around Mt Chimney and
in the Sky Pillar)

Berries:

Sitrus Berry: Linoone (various mid-game routes in grass)
Pecha Berry: Poochyena (various early routes in grass)
Rawst Berry: Numel (routes surrounding the Fiery Path) and Vulpix (foot of
Mt Chimney)
Oran Berry: Zigzagoon (EVERYWHERE >:o ), Pikachu (Safari Zone) and Linoone
(various mid-game routes in grass)
Persim Berry: Girafarig (Safari Zone)
Chesto Berry: Kecleon (visible with Devon Scope), Whismur (the cave
connecting Venderturf to Rustboro), Loudred (Victory Road) and Spinda (the
dust-covered route)
Leppa Berry: Skitty (not worth the bother)


For the Evolved Pokes you will notice that you need TWO Moonstones. Only
one is found in the game AFAIK, so you need to get one from a Lunatone in
Sapphire (or trade for one).

This was longer than I expected. I hope whoever does the moves is as wordy.
I would like to know what others think of the moves now that we are all used
to them.

But I am looking forward to FR/LG for my favourite move, Payday (with Amulet
Coin attached!)

daramark
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 3:21:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

"Andrusi" <asverner@unity.ncsu.edu> wrote in message
news:D 95427ae.0406271028.2b4c0a72@posting.google.com...
> In short, what's been going on for the past year or so?

Naturally, EVERYTHING's different now. Asking for a summary of RS/Coli/FL
strategy is like asking for a brief explanation of "science". Narrowing it
down might help, but just for fun, I present you with...

Iceduck's Top Ten Things That We've Learned From The Advanced Generation!

10: Splash ISN'T useless!

That's right - the move Splash DOES have a use other than filler. It's a
good move to use in contests! Contests are a different way of challenging
your Pokémon, and the rules are very different from normal battling.

9: Pikachu isn't catchable in every game!

Coli became the first Pokémon RPG EVER that doesn't allow you to own a
Pikachu without trading.

....and this is also true of Magnemite. Sorry.

8: Berries are an endangered species.

Hoenn is obsessed with entrusting you with their super-rare berries, because
you're the only person in the country with a watering can, so the survival
of berries lies solely in your hands.

7: Kanto is surrounded by small islands!

And no, Tech, they're NOT the tops of mountains in a flooded Hyrule.

6: Babies are weird.

Wynaut learns extra moves and Azurill's a Normal type. What a world.

5: There are two new Unown!

Yes, a question mark and an exclamation mark. We still don't have an
apostrophe. Unown grammar is attrocious.

4: Earl wasn't popular enough to make it into the new games.

Pokémon's gone so mainstream.

3: Exploring new areas is fun! ...assuming there's no ocean in the way.

Despite the exitement of a whole new continent, it took a year for most PW!
characters to get to Hoenn.

2: Foreign PokéDexes are primitive!

I have a Bayleef and a Chickorita in Sapphire. The Dex refuses to
acknowledge this, and even their data screens refuses to admit that they're
real Pokémon with their own PokéDex numbers. I have to wait until FL to
unlock the National PokéDex.

1: Stantler is repulsively and unforgivably dull.

It's a good thing that there's only one Stantler in the entire series of
games. As long as you get your brother to dump it in the daycare centre
until it's purified, you don't even have to look at it once you've caught
it.

> So... how good are the new moves (especially the TMs)?

It seems you need a whole education. Check out websites and such for moves.

> Which new
> Pokémon are worth raising seriously, and which ones should I just
> daycare, evolve, and abandon? Which types tend to be more useful than
> others?

Specific Pokémon choice is a case of trial and error, but feel free to ask
about specific monsters. No point going through all 135 new ones one by
one, though.

As for types, special-based types are in control again. Ice, Electric and
Grass mainly, in my experience. Your team should certainly have at least
one Fire move too, although choice of Fire types is much more limited
nowadays.

> What do I need to think about in single battles now? How
> much different are double battles--what doesn't work, and what extra
> things do I need to look out for?

You really ought to be able to work out both from playing RS and Coli, even
just against the computer. Coli's particularly good, since the better
trainers tend to use real strategy. You may even be inspired by some of
those ideas.

> As far as specific questions, is Illumise or Volbeat worth raising
> (and which one)?

Not really. They're both pretty brittle, and with pretty weak types. There
are some fun new Bug types, but I doubt you'll see much use from either of
those two.

> What do Helping Hand and the Plus/Minus abilities
> actually do?

Helping Hand boosts the strength of the move your partner is using, and
therefore always goes first in battle. It's useless in 1vs1 battles.

If you have a Plusle and a Minun out at the same time in a 2vs2 battle, they
will BOTH become stronger because of their abilities. However, I find it
silly to have two Electrics on your team just to strengthen one another. I
guess they're just a gimmick to promote 2vs2 fighting.

> Which Pokémon demand my elemental stones now, and where
> do I get the stones to use on them?

Skitty needs a Moon Stone, Lombre needs a Water Stone and Nuzleaf needs a
Leaf Stone. Moon Stones and Sun Stones can be Thieved from Lunatone and
Solrock respectively. The rest are found all over the world, and if you can
find Shards, a collector will trade you them for evolution Stones.

FL sells the four elemental Stones, though. Moon Stones and Sun Stones are
therefore the rarest Stones.

> And how do I get this goddamned
> Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?

Catch a Cascoon in the forest if it's that annoying.

--
Steffan
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Anonymous
June 28, 2004 3:21:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004, Steffan Alun wrote:
> As for types, special-based types are in control again. Ice, Electric and
> Grass mainly, in my experience. Your team should certainly have at least
> one Fire move too, although choice of Fire types is much more limited
> nowadays.

...but the three (6 including the evos) new Fires are, well, quite
awesome. :)  Okay, so Numel/Camerupt (Water/Ground) goes down to even the
tiniest drop of water, and both they and Torkoal are
slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, but otherwise they've got great stats and
movesets. Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken (Fire/Fighting) is among the best
(non-Legendary, anyway) 'mons in the game, IMHO.

> > And how do I get this goddamned
> > Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?
>
> Catch a Cascoon in the forest if it's that annoying.

Yeah. You're not really gonna want to use them for battle anyways. If it
wasn't for Ralts, though, Dustox would be fairly attractive early on in R/S
because of Confusion...

--
"...there are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot
easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes into
work every day and has a job to do." [Terry Pratchett, "Small Gods"]
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~aa343/index.html
Anonymous
June 28, 2004 11:24:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

Thanks to everyone who replied. Sonic Adventure's post was the
funniest, though, so it gets a reply.

"Steffan Alun" <sha3@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<cbnkp8$ccs$1@sparta.btinternet.com>...
> 1: Stantler is repulsively and unforgivably dull.
>
> It's a good thing that there's only one Stantler in the entire series of
> games. As long as you get your brother to dump it in the daycare centre
> until it's purified, you don't even have to look at it once you've caught
> it.
XD Actually I probably *will* see it again... my brother's the one
who technically owns Coli, and it's on his memory card (mine is full),
so in theory he should be the one playing it, but mostly what's
happening is I'm doing all the work and he's reluctantly agreeing to
let me have a few of the Pokémon he doesn't like when he's done
trading all the good ones over to his Ruby version.

> > So... how good are the new moves (especially the TMs)?
>
> It seems you need a whole education. Check out websites and such for moves.
Yeah... I'm just trying to figure out what works well in practice.

> As for types, special-based types are in control again. Ice, Electric and
> Grass mainly, in my experience. Your team should certainly have at least
> one Fire move too, although choice of Fire types is much more limited
> nowadays.
That more or less matches up with what I was doing, though I do have a
bit of an ice shortage. (Easily solved though... I have Sapphire.
:p )

> > As far as specific questions, is Illumise or Volbeat worth raising
> > (and which one)?
>
> Not really. They're both pretty brittle, and with pretty weak types. There
> are some fun new Bug types, but I doubt you'll see much use from either of
> those two.
I had raised both of them for a while to see if either of them ever
evolved into the other, and I wanted to know if I could get any use
out of them. Guess not. ::box::

> > What do Helping Hand and the Plus/Minus abilities
> > actually do?
>
> Helping Hand boosts the strength of the move your partner is using, and
> therefore always goes first in battle. It's useless in 1vs1 battles.
More or less as I thought, then.

> If you have a Plusle and a Minun out at the same time in a 2vs2 battle, they
> will BOTH become stronger because of their abilities. However, I find it
> silly to have two Electrics on your team just to strengthen one another. I
> guess they're just a gimmick to promote 2vs2 fighting.
What I'm trying to figure out is "stronger how?" Does it increase
their attack? Their special attack? Critical hit ratio? Is it like
Helping Hand?

> > Which Pokémon demand my elemental stones now, and where
> > do I get the stones to use on them?
>
> Skitty needs a Moon Stone, Lombre needs a Water Stone and Nuzleaf needs a
> Leaf Stone.
*Water* Stone. Ohhhhhh.

> Moon Stones and Sun Stones can be Thieved from Lunatone and
> Solrock respectively. The rest are found all over the world, and if you can
> find Shards, a collector will trade you them for evolution Stones.
Yeah, I figured out the Shards, but it seemed too contrived to really
be "how you get evolution stones". Then again, getting Azurill or
Wynaut is pretty contrived too.

> FL sells the four elemental Stones, though. Moon Stones and Sun Stones are
> therefore the rarest Stones.
Ah. I was worried they might have changed that, after they went to so
much work to make the stones a pain in the ass to get in R/S (and I
have yet to see evidence that they even EXIST in Coli).

> > And how do I get this goddamned
> > Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?
>
> Catch a Cascoon in the forest if it's that annoying.

....D'oh.

-Andrusi &&
Sanity not included.
Anonymous
June 30, 2004 8:04:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

asverner@unity.ncsu.edu (Andrusi) wrote in message news:<d95427ae.0406280624.65445fae@posting.google.com>...
> > 1: Stantler is repulsively and unforgivably dull.
> >
> > It's a good thing that there's only one Stantler in the entire series of
> > games. As long as you get your brother to dump it in the daycare centre
> > until it's purified, you don't even have to look at it once you've caught
> > it.
>
> XD Actually I probably *will* see it again... my brother's the one
> who technically owns Coli, and it's on his memory card (mine is full),
> so in theory he should be the one playing it, but mostly what's
> happening is I'm doing all the work and he's reluctantly agreeing to
> let me have a few of the Pokémon he doesn't like when he's done
> trading all the good ones over to his Ruby version.

Stantler doesn't evolve, though, so one you have its Dex entry,
there's no need to ever acknowledge its existence again.

Again, it's make my life a lot more awesome if I knew whether or not
Sapphire kept track of all the GS Pokémon it gets, or whether I'll
have to get them all AFTER unlocking the National Dex.

> > > So... how good are the new moves (especially the TMs)?
> >
> > It seems you need a whole education. Check out websites and such for moves.
>
> Yeah... I'm just trying to figure out what works well in practice.

Stat moves are incredible now. Remember Curse? It's back! In
no-speed-loss form! It's called Bulk Up, and is one of many moves
that boost two stats up one stage. Calm Mind boosts both Special
Attack and Special Defense, for instance, so it works like Growth did
in RBY. These moves are worth remembering, therefore, if you want a
random example of good moves.

> > As for types, special-based types are in control again. Ice, Electric and
> > Grass mainly, in my experience. Your team should certainly have at least
> > one Fire move too, although choice of Fire types is much more limited
> > nowadays.
>
> That more or less matches up with what I was doing, though I do have a
> bit of an ice shortage. (Easily solved though... I have Sapphire.
> :p )

Ice is very important again, since many of the better new monsters are
part-Ground, -Dragon or -Flying. The new Ice types aren't exactly
uber, but they're quite fun. I love the idea of Glalie, for instance,
which is a four-foot evil ice face. If Kruton designed Pokémon...

> > > As far as specific questions, is Illumise or Volbeat worth raising
> > > (and which one)?
> >
> > Not really. They're both pretty brittle, and with pretty weak types. There
> > are some fun new Bug types, but I doubt you'll see much use from either of
> > those two.
>
> I had raised both of them for a while to see if either of them ever
> evolved into the other, and I wanted to know if I could get any use
> out of them. Guess not. ::box::

Heh, nah, they're equivalents of one another, like Tauros and Miltank.
There's no relation other than that, as far as I know.

That said, I've found them tougher to shift than most Bugs in Coli, so
in-game I guess they could do well. Bugs won't do that well in
general in human-to-human battles, though - everyone's aware of the
evil that is Shedinja, so you won't find a team that haven't got at
least two counter-measures for Bugs.

> > If you have a Plusle and a Minun out at the same time in a 2vs2 battle, they
> > will BOTH become stronger because of their abilities. However, I find it
> > silly to have two Electrics on your team just to strengthen one another. I
> > guess they're just a gimmick to promote 2vs2 fighting.
>
> What I'm trying to figure out is "stronger how?" Does it increase
> their attack? Their special attack? Critical hit ratio? Is it like
> Helping Hand?

Ah, I see.

I'm not actually certain, now that you mention it, but I think it's a
safe bet to assume that they boost each other's talent at using
Electric moves in some way, so either the abilities are like Helping
Hand or they boost one another's Special Attack, I'd say. How much
difference it makes, though, I don't know.

I think I'll trade a Minun to Coli at some point to try them out.

> > > Which Pokémon demand my elemental stones now, and where
> > > do I get the stones to use on them?
> >
> > Skitty needs a Moon Stone, Lombre needs a Water Stone and Nuzleaf needs a
> > Leaf Stone.
>
> *Water* Stone. Ohhhhhh.

Yes, Lombre's a weird one. He seems to be more plant than aquatic,
and I also initially thought it'd evolve with the Leaf Stone.

> > Moon Stones and Sun Stones can be Thieved from Lunatone and
> > Solrock respectively. The rest are found all over the world, and if you can
> > find Shards, a collector will trade you them for evolution Stones.
>
> Yeah, I figured out the Shards, but it seemed too contrived to really
> be "how you get evolution stones". Then again, getting Azurill or
> Wynaut is pretty contrived too.

Heh, yes.

The Shard collector is basically the new Bill's Grandfather, but since
you can Thief Shards from various Pokémon, there's an unlimited amount
of them for one who has the patience.

Myself, I've used up my Stones on filling up the Pokédex, so if I want
to actually raise a Ninetales or something, I'll be using FL.

> > FL sells the four elemental Stones, though. Moon Stones and Sun Stones are
> > therefore the rarest Stones.
>
> Ah. I was worried they might have changed that, after they went to so
> much work to make the stones a pain in the ass to get in R/S (and I
> have yet to see evidence that they even EXIST in Coli).

They don't exist in Coli, no.

RS basically makes things a pain so you appreciate them more in FL, I
think. I mean, using a Ditto to breed almost seems like CHEATING now,
and I went through a phase of wondering whether Ditto would be left
out of FL altogether. For the most part, though, FL plays exactly the
same as RB, even to the point that Golbat and Chansey won't evolve
until you've defeated the Elite Four. After beating the Elite, the
wider world gets opened up, and you can start trading with RS and
catching new Pokémon and such.

> > > And how do I get this goddamned
> > > Wurmple to evolve into a Cascoon instead of a Silicoon?
> >
> > Catch a Cascoon in the forest if it's that annoying.
>
> ...D'oh.

Heh, it's what I did anyway. The alternative, as I did with Tyrogue
back in the GS days, is to have a team of five of them, and have one
powerful Pokémon knock out high-level Pokémon while you rotate the
Exp. Share. Assuming you have access to Victory Road or the Sky
Tower, you ought to be able to evolve one per wild Pokémon, seeing as
you only need to get them to :L7.

Steffan
!