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Does component video = HDTV ???

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Anonymous
August 17, 2004 1:46:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

If a television set has component video input jacks (YPbPr), can one
automatically presume that it is HDTV compatible ? Or are manufacturers
putting component video jacks on "standard" TVs as a marketting ploy ?

I have a philips 27" model 27PS55S, manufactured 2002, with both s-video and
component video inputs. The owners manual (and Philips on-line manuals)
mention the component video input but are totally silent on what (if any)
HDTV modes it can handle - i.e., 480i, 480p, etc. Are there any assumptions
I can make based on the age of the set and the fact that it HAS these jacks
?

The end result is, I want to connect my PC to this set to display DVDs and
windows video files. I can do that right now by using the S-Video output of
my ATI rage Pro3D. But I'm thinking of upgrading to an ATI Radeon 9800 which
can output a component video signal, which would seem to only be worthwhile
if this philips set can handle at least 480p ?

Are there any rules-of-thumb I can apply here ?

- FM -

More about : component video hdtv

Anonymous
August 17, 2004 1:46:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Fred Mau" <fred-dot-mau@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:aX9Uc.136112$8_6.62553@attbi_s04...
> If a television set has component video input jacks (YPbPr), can one
> automatically presume that it is HDTV compatible ? Or are manufacturers
> putting component video jacks on "standard" TVs as a marketting ploy ?
>
> I have a philips 27" model 27PS55S, manufactured 2002, with both s-video
> and
> component video inputs. The owners manual (and Philips on-line manuals)
> mention the component video input but are totally silent on what (if any)
> HDTV modes it can handle - i.e., 480i, 480p, etc. Are there any
> assumptions
> I can make based on the age of the set and the fact that it HAS these
> jacks
> ?
>
> The end result is, I want to connect my PC to this set to display DVDs and
> windows video files. I can do that right now by using the S-Video output
> of
> my ATI rage Pro3D. But I'm thinking of upgrading to an ATI Radeon 9800
> which
> can output a component video signal, which would seem to only be
> worthwhile
> if this philips set can handle at least 480p ?
>
> Are there any rules-of-thumb I can apply here ?
>

No. This is a standard analog TV capable of 480, with component inputs for
hooking up a DVD player or other source that uses component. If you do a
Google search for "Philips 27PS55S" you can see many reviews and specs for
the set.
August 17, 2004 2:11:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> If a television set has component video input jacks (YPbPr), can one
> automatically presume that it is HDTV compatible ? Or are manufacturers

Nope. As a bare mininum, it can only be considered "HDTV" if it displays
1080i.
(And many may argue that it also needs to handle 720p, either displaying it
or converting it, as well.)

> putting component video jacks on "standard" TVs as a marketting ploy ?

Well, component feeds break up the signal into three seperate channels,
giving more bandwidth to chroma and luminance -- resulting in a superior
picture. Of course, how "superior" depends on the video source and whatever
is displaying the video. Component connections can be used with either
standard television or high definition television. Component connections
are just that -- connections. What the actual signal going through them
determines if its standard or high definition. Many standard television
(SDTV's) now include component inputs as do many DVD players. Using
component connections between a DVD player and a SDTV is certaintly better
than using composite, so in that sense its not really a "marketing plot".
But, I do have to agree, the way some of the manufacturers word component
capability on SDTV's is all about "marketing" and leads to more confusion
about HDTV.

> HDTV modes it can handle - i.e., 480i, 480p, etc. Are there any
assumptions
> I can make based on the age of the set and the fact that it HAS these
jacks

Neither 480-interlace or 480-progressive are HDTV. A HDTV, as a mininum,
should be capable of displaying 1080i (and perhaps doing something with
720p). There are many other ATSC resolutions as well. (Do a google on
"ATSC resolutions.")

480p scans all the 480 lines "at one pass", while 480i interlaces them by
scanning the odds and then the evens. As a result, 480p has better picture
quality than 480i. Quality is most noticable whenever there is text on the
screen or action in the video. There is less "artifacting".
(For video consoles such as the Xbox, the quality between 480i and 480p is
substantial.)

I don't think anything could be safely assumed about this particular TV set
just because it has component inputs. I would like to say that it could be
assumed that it does 480p, but I wouldn't even assume that. (Are there sets
that have component inputs, but only do 480i?)
I'd ask the manufacturer if it does 480p, or a sales clerk at an audio/video
speciality shop. (I wouldn't trust a sales clerk at one of the large stores
though.)

> The end result is, I want to connect my PC to this set to display DVDs and
> windows video files. I can do that right now by using the S-Video output
of
> my ATI rage Pro3D. But I'm thinking of upgrading to an ATI Radeon 9800
which
> can output a component video signal, which would seem to only be
worthwhile
> if this philips set can handle at least 480p ?

I've only connected PC's (and laptops) to TV's through S-video a few times
and had the usual grainy image with all it's ugly artifacts, but based on
the Xbox with my HDTV -- I'd definetly say 480p should be superior for a
PC-to-television connection over 480i.

Don't know if you are wanting to be "budget minded" by considering a SDTV
(capable of 480p), but it may make better sense in the long run to go with
an actual HDTV monitor. Prices for CRT HDTV monitors have been falling
nicely. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year from from CRT HDTV's are being
retailed for around the same price as CRT SDTV's with the same dimensions.
Related resources
August 17, 2004 2:28:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> Don't know if you are wanting to be "budget minded" by considering a SDTV
> (capable of 480p), but it may make better sense in the long run to go with
> an actual HDTV monitor. Prices for CRT HDTV monitors have been falling
> nicely. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year from from CRT HDTV's are
being
> retailed for around the same price as CRT SDTV's with the same dimensions.

I apologize. After re-reading your post, I read that this particular TV
("Philips 27PS55S") was a set that you already own -- not one you are
considering to purchase.

Also see no mention anywhere of it being 480p capable. Unfortunetly, it's
probably only 480i. If it were 480p capable, that specification would be
plastered all over the specs and the box it came in.

Got anything that outputs 480p to test it with?

(Hope the rest of my reply about HDTV made some sense though.)
August 17, 2004 6:59:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Fred,

Actually, it depends on the scan frequencies utilized in the component video
circuitry. Theoretically, component video can be any resolution.
I have a Hughes high definition satellite/terrestrial receiver that outputs
component video in high definition format (1080i and 720p).
It is hooked into my HDTV set via the component video input (no DVI input on
this set) and works like a charm.
Of course the monitor's component video circuitry has to be able to handle
(decode, if you will) the higher scan frequencies or else you may fry some
of the components. (almost forgot to mention is needs to handle the
interlacing/progressive as well)

While your set cannot handle HDTV signals in any format, using a component
video will give you the best analog picture in the standard NTSC format. In
the analog world, mixing signals always adds noise - component video is the
least "mixed" format (1 luminance & 2 color) and is preferred over S-Video
(brightness + color) which is preferred over composite (all info crammed
together)

Dave



"Mike Rush" <miker@avenuenospamcable.com> wrote in message
news:yPbUc.501$33.16059@eagle.america.net...
> "Fred Mau" <fred-dot-mau@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:aX9Uc.136112$8_6.62553@attbi_s04...
> > If a television set has component video input jacks (YPbPr), can one
> > automatically presume that it is HDTV compatible ? Or are manufacturers
> > putting component video jacks on "standard" TVs as a marketting ploy ?
> >
> > I have a philips 27" model 27PS55S, manufactured 2002, with both s-video
> > and
> > component video inputs. The owners manual (and Philips on-line manuals)
> > mention the component video input but are totally silent on what (if
any)
> > HDTV modes it can handle - i.e., 480i, 480p, etc. Are there any
> > assumptions
> > I can make based on the age of the set and the fact that it HAS these
> > jacks
> > ?
> >
> > The end result is, I want to connect my PC to this set to display DVDs
and
> > windows video files. I can do that right now by using the S-Video output
> > of
> > my ATI rage Pro3D. But I'm thinking of upgrading to an ATI Radeon 9800
> > which
> > can output a component video signal, which would seem to only be
> > worthwhile
> > if this philips set can handle at least 480p ?
> >
> > Are there any rules-of-thumb I can apply here ?
> >
>
> No. This is a standard analog TV capable of 480, with component inputs for
> hooking up a DVD player or other source that uses component. If you do a
> Google search for "Philips 27PS55S" you can see many reviews and specs for
> the set.
>
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 10:16:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote in message
news:10i2r9squft019b@corp.supernews.com...
> I apologize. After re-reading your post, I read that this particular TV
> ("Philips 27PS55S") was a set that you already own -- not one you are
> considering to purchase.
>
> Also see no mention anywhere of it being 480p capable. Unfortunetly, it's
> probably only 480i. If it were 480p capable, that specification would be
> plastered all over the specs and the box it came in.
>
> Got anything that outputs 480p to test it with?
>
> (Hope the rest of my reply about HDTV made some sense though.)


Yeah I had the set for just over a year, but I'm just now getting around to
doing anything with the component video inputs. I've looked at dozens of
sites on the net, including Philips.com, a lot of reviewers give it high
marks for it's size and price range but I haven't seen specific specs.

All I've got to test it with is an RCA RC5215P DVD Player with both
component (YPbPr), and S-video outputs. Running the S-video and YPbPr in
parallel to the Philips TV (AV1 and AV2 inputs), and switching
back-and-forth on a DVD that has both motion and text, I can MAYBE convince
myself that I'm seeing a slight difference between component and s-video,
but it's nothing that jumps right out at me.

But I don't KNOW that the RCA can do progressive scan output, the manual
doesn't indicate. (It seems like it's more difficult than it ought to be to
nail down exact specs on this stuff).

- FM -
August 17, 2004 3:10:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> Yeah I had the set for just over a year, but I'm just now getting around
to
> doing anything with the component video inputs. I've looked at dozens of
> sites on the net, including Philips.com, a lot of reviewers give it high
> marks for it's size and price range but I haven't seen specific specs.
>
> All I've got to test it with is an RCA RC5215P DVD Player with both
> component (YPbPr), and S-video outputs. Running the S-video and YPbPr in
> parallel to the Philips TV (AV1 and AV2 inputs), and switching
> back-and-forth on a DVD that has both motion and text, I can MAYBE
convince
> myself that I'm seeing a slight difference between component and s-video,
> but it's nothing that jumps right out at me.
>
> But I don't KNOW that the RCA can do progressive scan output, the manual
> doesn't indicate. (It seems like it's more difficult than it ought to be
to
> nail down exact specs on this stuff).

It sounds like, unfortunetly, that your DVD player can output only 480i. As
someone else replied, if it did have progressive scan capability then it
would be listed in the specs. It would definetly be in the manual, as most
DVD players require 480p to be manually enabled. It would probably even be
on the DVD player itself, at least something on the front display to
indicate when 480p is enabled. (My DVD player illuminates a "Prog" text
when 480p is enabled.) Progressive playback is a strong "selling point", so
that capability is usually plastered all over. (Specs, on the shipping box,
on the display, perhaps even written on the player itself.)

Yeah, as you noted, the difference between picture quality for S-video and
component connections with 480i is very subtle. Both are definetly much
better than composite video though.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 5:51:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Fred Mau" <fred-dot-mau@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:nphUc.28454$TI1.15058@attbi_s52...
>
> "Eric" <none@nospam.not> wrote in message
> news:10i2r9squft019b@corp.supernews.com...
> > I apologize. After re-reading your post, I read that this particular TV
> > ("Philips 27PS55S") was a set that you already own -- not one you are
> > considering to purchase.
> >
> > Also see no mention anywhere of it being 480p capable. Unfortunetly,
it's
> > probably only 480i. If it were 480p capable, that specification would
be
> > plastered all over the specs and the box it came in.
> >
> > Got anything that outputs 480p to test it with?
> >
> > (Hope the rest of my reply about HDTV made some sense though.)
>
>
> Yeah I had the set for just over a year, but I'm just now getting around
to
> doing anything with the component video inputs. I've looked at dozens of
> sites on the net, including Philips.com, a lot of reviewers give it high
> marks for it's size and price range but I haven't seen specific specs.
>
> All I've got to test it with is an RCA RC5215P DVD Player with both
> component (YPbPr), and S-video outputs. Running the S-video and YPbPr in
> parallel to the Philips TV (AV1 and AV2 inputs), and switching
> back-and-forth on a DVD that has both motion and text, I can MAYBE
convince
> myself that I'm seeing a slight difference between component and s-video,
> but it's nothing that jumps right out at me.

The difference would be most apparent with colored stripes. The component
signal can carry more color detail than the S-video.

> But I don't KNOW that the RCA can do progressive scan output, the manual
> doesn't indicate. (It seems like it's more difficult than it ought to be
to
> nail down exact specs on this stuff).

Your RCA is interlaced scan only. If a DVD player has progressive scan it
will be mentioned in the specs.

> - FM -
>
>
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 12:14:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

RGB and YPbPr component cables handle a range of resolutions, and the mere
presence of RCAx3 or BNCx3 or BNCx5 connectors does *not* tell you what
resolutions the receiving device actually handles.

As for "HDTV". Any monitor or TV that displays the "HDTV" logo is expected
to do something meaningful with all the 18 resolutions specified by the ATSC
specification, which includes 480p, 720p and 1080i. A critical point is that
a display or projector does *not* need to have 1280x720 or 1920x1080 actual
pixels (or more) to be labled as a HDTV device, it only needs to be able to
accept such resolutions as inputs, and scale them as necessary to fit the
display device's actual resolution. The more up-front sales people and
vendors will say "HDTV", but will tell you in plain english that the actual
pixel count displayed is often less (the source is scaled down).

Thomas Gilg
August 20, 2004 3:13:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> As for "HDTV". Any monitor or TV that displays the "HDTV" logo is expected
> to do something meaningful with all the 18 resolutions specified by the
ATSC
> specification, which includes 480p, 720p and 1080i.

It should be expected, but unfortunetly that isn't always the case. There
are sets out there that have the "HDTV" logo, but don't do anything with
720p. (They don't even convert 720p to 480p or 1080i.) With 720p, all you
get is blank screen.

There was such a set that I considered purchasing and asked a salesperson
that very question, "Does it convert 720p?".

He tried to demonstrate that it did convert 720p by tuning to a 720p
broadcast. Of course, I wasn't about to buy into that and had him set the
STB settings so it would put out a 720p signal. (During his
"demonstration", the STB was set to convert 720p to 1080i, so of course it
worked.) When we were greeted to a blank screen, he tried to backpedal by
saying that it didn't matter since the STB does conversion.

Naturally, I didn't purchase that set -- nor did I make a purchase from that
store.
Anonymous
August 20, 2004 8:52:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>(During his
>"demonstration", the STB was set to convert 720p to 1080i, so of course it
>worked.) When we were greeted to a blank screen, he tried to backpedal by
>saying that it didn't matter since the STB does conversion.

Let me ask though - if you have an STB capable of up or downconverting 720p
signals, or a TV capable of doing the conversion itself, what difference does
it make if it can actually display 720p?
August 20, 2004 3:34:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steve Grauman wrote:

>>(During his
>>"demonstration", the STB was set to convert 720p to 1080i, so of course it
>>worked.) When we were greeted to a blank screen, he tried to backpedal by
>>saying that it didn't matter since the STB does conversion.
>
>
> Let me ask though - if you have an STB capable of up or downconverting 720p
> signals, or a TV capable of doing the conversion itself, what difference does
> it make if it can actually display 720p?

It makes a HUGE differance. Most STB's and TV's don't do that particular
conversion very well.

Clay
!