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Is the PSU to weak?

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February 27, 2007 3:46:12 AM

Well this is my first time building a comp and I hooked everything up but when i press the power button nothing really happens except it looks like it trys too turn on then powers down very fast.

E6700 Processor
P5n-E Sli Mobo
2G ram
8800GTS
1 LG Optical drive
1 400gb Harddrive
and the case is a Raidmax x-1

well....I replaced the PSU with a 700w OCZ GameXstream
and It did the same thing once I put the video card in. You think the vid card is bad or the PSU is just too weak because i think I burned out the PSU.

Can u guys post a PSU u guys would recommend with enough amps and watts

More about : psu weak

February 28, 2007 4:03:57 AM

The 700w Gamexstream says its 36amps i think
February 28, 2007 4:32:13 AM

so you think my video card might be burning the psu's out??
Related resources
February 28, 2007 1:07:38 PM

the extreme calculator(not sure if I did it right) says 750 watts tho
February 28, 2007 1:50:20 PM

Its not about watts its about amps so forget that calculator.
February 28, 2007 2:49:27 PM

well 750w is a bit excessive for that kinda system. im running mine on a 500w PSU and it has no problems running my setup. Just make sure the +12v lines has enough amps to supply your gfx. GTS shouldnt be as powerhungry as the GTX so i would say you are fine with 500w
February 28, 2007 7:19:22 PM

I have a 550 Watt PSU and I am running

MachSpeed Motherboard
AMD X2 4400 processor
Nvidia GTS 8800 Video Card 640MB (just 1)
2 GB RAM
120 MM Fan
1 160GB Sata Drive
2 IDE drives (1 30GB and other is 160GB)
1 CD Burner and 1 DVD Burner.

I have had very little problems with mine, it shot off on me a couple of times but I having a feeling that it was not becuase of my PSU.

I will let you know more when I find out.
February 28, 2007 7:23:36 PM

habber you rock! n u r right
February 28, 2007 9:35:11 PM

thank u guys so much well i hooked everything up slowly one thing at a time on my 450 that came with the case and everything works fine but the video card So ima go exchange the OCZ Gamexstream for a new one since it blew out but now all I have too do is send the vid card into new egg.
March 2, 2007 3:27:10 PM

CHURCH...mpilchfamily...and this post is the one you want to listen to. dont pay any attention at all to habber (except he has one point on the watts its not really about the watts its about the amps but still you will not get the amps without the watts and thats what he fails to know) he also fails to consider that the fans, HDD"s, FDD, DVD,RAM and such also need power.....so with a 30A PS 1/3 of your power is going to be used there and that does not include your CPU and MOBO about 8-10A each, nor your vid card (average 18A and going up) so you see a 30A PS will struggle fiercly to power that system if at all...read on my friend.....

yes your PS is tooo weak, and unfortunately it may have also taken out your vid card if it did the same with a higher amp PS....get something with 60A+ if it still does it then that first PS may well have taken out either your mobo, pcie bus, or vid card. if the OCZ is rated at 56A then it will be ok but i would still suggest getting away from multiple +12V rails.

although mpilchfamily is correct with most of his posts he is mistaken with telling you that your systems needs at most 34A, aprox usages...cpu 8A, mobo 8-10A (ram and pci cards included), vid card AVERAGE 18A (little higher for the 8800) so right there you have the 34A that he mentioned, but where are you going to get amps to run the dvd, fans, FDD, HDD's, for these items (baring whatever fans your mobo has connectors for) do not run off the mobo power like the ram does. each of these are going to need 1-2 amps (fans will take about 1 amp/4 fans not plugged into the mobo). you need a minimum of 38A just for what you listed on your system config, and that don't count if you left out a floppy (FDD), extra fans etc...
with your system I would recommend at least a 750W with an amp rating of NO LESS than 50A and that will be borderline running at like 85%+ (preferably go with 60A+). why...because power supplies run BEST at 30 - 70% of total output. with that OCZ (if amp rating is 56 your going to run at about the 70% mark)

the FACT is YOUR POWER SUPPLY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE PIECE OF YOUR PC....why because without a GOOD one you will take out other parts...CPU, MOBO, VGA card or others.
DON'T SKIMP ON YOUR POWER SUPPLY!!!!!! OR YOU'LL BE SORRY.

habber may be running ok for now but in time he will be replacing that nice new 680i MOBO and or his CPU, vid card directly dur to his PS. because he IS running that PS of his at, at least 90% and it wont last long there. he is gambling with like $800 worth of parts because he only wanted to spend about $125 on his PS....DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE!!!!!!!

the best ps on the market...PCPower and Cooling
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home/
the 750 quad would do you good with your current system. BUT if you want to sli that video card in the future you want to look at a PS with amp rating of like 80A...8800GTS card NEEDS a PS rating of 26A for 1 card and 56A for 2 cards in sli BARE MINIMUM nVidia recommendations. with the PCPower 750 quad (amp rating at 60A) your system would run at about 60-70% of the PS output... cons....a good PS is going to cost you...plan on spending a Bare MINIMUM of $150 and that just for a half decent BORDERLINE one, a good one will cost you $200+. but when you consider saving $50-$100 on the PS vs that PS taking out $500+ in other stuff like your CPU, MOBO, or vidcard you really spent more in the long run plus got severely pissed off. BUY A GOOD PS!!!!!!

try to stay away from multiple +12V rail PS or at MOST 2 +12V rails, dont even think about 3,4,or 5 +12V rail power supplies. http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/ ....especially #8 at the bottom of the page. also keep that calculator and do the math that mpilchfamily talked about to get the amps or http://www.pcpower.com/technology/power_usage/ and read the bottom where it talks about the 1.5 multiplier but still check the amp rating of the PS)

the downfall to PCpower and cooling....they go from the 750W quad at 60A $200...up to the 1000W at 80A $500...they really need like an 850W 70A or so, they dicontinued it a while ago I guess in favor of the 1000W...if they still had the 850W that's what I would have bought but the 750 quad is borderline for my system. and I didn't have $500 for the 1000W buy if I need to upgrade later you bet your ass that's the one i'm getting.

gigabyte M59SLI-S5 (nvidia 590 chipset)
AMD X2 5200+
2G corsair PC26400C4 (ddr2 800Mhz @ 2.1v 4-4-4-12)
2xWD 250G 3.0Gb/s (caviar RE raid specific) raid 0
8800 GTS 320Mb (single card don't need sli)
POWER---sliverstone 850W 64A ..$220
(completely modular cabling even the main 24 pin), (con 2 +12V rails, but each at 35A with total 64A) if PCpower and cooling still offered something in the 850W with 65+amps i would have gone that way. it may appear that this PS may be slightly more than I NEED but my system needs like 48 -50 amps total and with this PS I am running at about 70 - 75% and may peak at 80-85% when I go full bore like gaming. (damn that means if I choose to sli later I need that pcpower 1000W PS to keep my piece of mind that my PS has plenty of power.)

check out these links for some VALUABLE PS info
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/home/
yes again but notice the choose PS by motherboard link this will give you a minimum rated PS for what that mobo will support in the way of CPU vid card etc. but this does not nessesarily mean that PS is good for sli.

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_build_psu.html
nVidia recommended sli PS's (disregard those with more than 2 +12V rails)

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566
take note of these...just down from top of post, list of PS to stay away from read the post, however some have gotten better like the higher end thermaltakes in the 650W+ range.
and then the list of recommended ps below. you want to be toward the bottom of the recommended list in the $200+ range and the Pc power 850 is no longer available.

hope this helped....

habber..go back to PS 101, then go research for more about PS and stop spreading your bullshit, it's ok if you want to fry your own system but don't feed crap that might cause someone else to fry thiers cuz they listened to your BS.

PS. if this post appeared 2x I appologize, I hit something that caused it to disappear when previewing but didn't see it posted so I did it again.
March 3, 2007 12:18:02 AM

Well lets see.

My PSU is easily capable of delivering the power i need, its not struggling for anything i know ppl that can run this system on less than 500W. anyways my PSU deliver 38A on the 12v rails, and has an efficiency around 85% so i think this will run my comp for atleast 2 years or more. I see no need to get at bigger psu right now as i have no need for it. im not a powerhungry maniac and i dont need to get sli cause the electric bill will just be insane. If you get at good brand PSU you wont have problems running 500W... that said it would be safer to go for something bigger, but safe is not cheap :-)
March 3, 2007 12:31:38 AM

i know...

it was posted under the tech stats where i bought it. anyways i used the calculation and ended up on 401W. so i guess im good for now?
March 3, 2007 1:25:17 AM

Quote:
The 700W OCZ had about 56.66A on it's combined +12v rails. It has enough power to run your system with dual 8800GTXs in SLI, watercooling and a mean OC.


I agree that the GE 700 is plenty for his spec but would not plan on getting more than about 45A out of the +12. According to the specs shown on Jonny Guru, the +3, +5 and +12 rails add up to 680 watts.
March 3, 2007 4:59:29 AM

Quote:
You need to be focused on the wattage going to just the 12v rails. For the 700W OCZ it has 680W on the +12v rails. Divide that by 12 and you get the total amperage on teh combined +12v rials.


I know how to do the calculations, but go look at this closely. You only get 680w on the +12 if the +3 and +5 add up to zero.
March 3, 2007 8:25:48 PM

Pros: bad luck i guess...your problem could lie in your power supply...that PS BARELY meets recommendations for wattage and amps of your system and may not quite meet the req. on amps when your system is running full bore. the 8800 GTS cards require a PS with a MINIMUM amp rating of 26A, your PS (while I can't find and exact rating from raidmax is about 30A and with a system like you have set up that is RISKY BUSINESS taking a chance on frying components. see links in other thoughts

Cons: I think your PS a little too weak .... FACT is your Power Supply is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR PC. without a good one you can/will fry the rest of your components, yet people constantly try to get away with the least expensive PS they can or look at how the PS "LOOKS in the case..BAD MOVE...you really should plan on spending at least BARE MINIMUM $150 on a PS and thats just for a half decent one, actually recommended is $200 and up cuz your NOT going te get what you need for less. there is a reason why those PS are $200 plus.

Other Thoughts: http://www.pcpower.com/technology/power_usage/ http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/ these 2 are PC Power and cooling (the best PS on the market) the first link is a wattage calculator (take the high values)the on second scroll down to #8, read closely multiple +12v rails are NOT what the industry tries to crack them up to be. I personally did get a dual +12V rails PS BUT each rail is 35A, even still a single rail is better, I just could not afford the one I wanted from PCPower (like 1000W @ $500) the 750 quad PS from PCPower would do you good, I only wish they made like an 850w but they jump from 750 to 1000. some VERY valuable info about PS as well look at this link about PS to stay away from..NO JOKE http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566 ... its quite the long page so read it. one more http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..... read most ESPECIALLY the 4th post on the page from user name "mpilchfamily".


Not to distract from the original topic, but thanks for directing me to this topic from Newegg. Blackcurtain meantioned a lot of good info here and there. I just bought a 8800gts, and in the requirements is says, "Minimum 400 watt PSU with 26a on the +12v Rail"

I too strongly feel people too often overlook the importance of the lowly PSU and don't buy good ones. My Coolermaster 450w apparently doesn't quite put out enough steady voltage/wattage to meet the demands of my new card. My old 7800gt it seemed to work fine for.

I used a voltmeter to read my 12v --voltage. It reads 12.02vdc, steady, while idling. When I run Aquamarks, and put the card under load, the voltage starts fluctuating and will dip to about 11.92 vdc. A tenth of a volt is a lot in computer terms. Though it might not translate into burning up components or my house, I can see how it might cause random crashing, or at least a performance decrease since CPU's and GPU's can throttle down to keep from self destructing.

I felt my Coolermaster was a GOOD PSu, but it seems it is borderline or below par for the application. In honestly my perception of what a tiny PSU wire (what are they? 18ga?) is capable of supplying in wattage or amperage makes me question this whole thing. In NEC terms, you would need a 10ga. wire to supply 26amp 12 volts (which is 312 watts)
But the voltage readings.... are the bottom line and it shows my PSU isn't strong enough to supply a STEADY, clean 12.00 vdc.
March 3, 2007 8:31:04 PM

I've been seeing more and more PSU's coming from companies such as OCZ, coming out with their own PSU. I would say the best bet is to avoid these companies. It's probably wiser to buy from a company that solely makes PSU's, Enermax, pcpower, etc. than companies jumping on the bandwagon and putting their name on cookie-cutter PSU's that probably all come from the same factory in China.
March 3, 2007 9:52:21 PM

Quote:
The more I find out about the OCZ PSU the less I like them. It's got borderline ripple and sketchy information about its power output. So basically we are lucky to get 52A out of the +12v rails. So much for trying to power dual 8800s. Guess that accounts for the trouble people have been having with these units.


Mine has been excellent. I used it to run an Opty 170 as high as 2.9GHz with two 1900XTs in XFire OC'ed to the gills, a XFi, a RAID card, two opticals, five fans and 8 HDs and had no problems. When it was in that configuration, I took it into the lab and measured a ripple on the order of 60 +/-10mV. The cable bundle is bulky but that's about my only complaint. The internals look decent but not as high quality as a PCP&C or Mushkin or SeaSonic.
March 3, 2007 9:54:58 PM

Quote:
I've been seeing more and more PSU's coming from companies such as OCZ, coming out with their own PSU. I would say the best bet is to avoid these companies. It's probably wiser to buy from a company that solely makes PSU's, Enermax, pcpower, etc. than companies jumping on the bandwagon and putting their name on cookie-cutter PSU's that probably all come from the same factory in China.


I thought PCP&C, FSP, Mushkin and OCZ were all made in the same plant? Regardless, I see no need to go with a one-dimensional manufacturer.
March 4, 2007 3:19:23 PM

WOW MAN, I'M DEFINATELY IMPRESSED....38A on the +12V...why don't you go check it out...38A is SMALL..the market is flooded with 60A and even some at 80A.

let use your "lets see" comment shall we...
your CPU needs 7-8A, your mobo about 10A (maybe more being its the new 680 havn't check that out yet) and your 8800 at least 18A (18A is the average for vga cards and with the 8800 being new you know its the highest, probably more like 20A for it but can't yet find an exact power consumption all I can find so far is the average) so that said just to power your main componets you NEED 35A. right there you ARE running that PS at 90% of abilities not to mention HDD's, optical drives, FDD (if you have one) and fans not plugged to the motherboard. Ya dude...go research what we are talking about and educate yourself..running a PS at 90% will soon kill it.

as well FACT IS power supplies run best at 30-70% of output.
FACT IS over time a PS loses some of it's output abilities, up 30% over 2 -3 years, so that means that the 2 years you plan on using that PS, by that time it could very well be just like having a 350W 26A PS. DOOH!!!!POOF!!! there goes a mobo, cpu or vga card! like you said may be enough for now but I wouldn't wait long to replace it. I'd give it 6 months or less before that PS goes and good chance of it taking something with it.

so, habber, (or anyone else like him) you can either argue the point and stay ignorant to the FACTS about power supplies, and in time get pissed off cuz you lost your mobo etc...due to running a PS that just was not enough, or you can listen to what we are telling you, go research it for yourself (that way you can feel like you discovered on your own and didn't have to be told or admit that your information was BS) and then spend a few more bucks on a PS that will do 2 things...1 power that system for the next 2 years with no prob and 2 give you piece of mind that your not going to lose a mobo or other to the PS.

whatever your choice is fine by me it's not my tower, it's ok if you want to risk your own tower but stop spreading bullshit that might cause someone else to fry thier stuff cus they listened to someone' BULLSHIT saying that a 500W 38A PS was enough to run a highend rig. 2 years ago this was true, a 500W 38A PS would run damn near any rig out thier, BUT the GPU's out today require a whole lot more than the 2 yr old 6600, as well your not going to run a dual core cpu on the same power you ran a P4 or 3200+ it's just not going to happen faster tech means more power.

for those new to this sort of thing see my other posts ( all are replies to this thread or church's thread, mpilchfamily psu list thread which he links in his posts)or for links about power supply research/references as well as stuff posted by mpilchfamily...you can tell when someone knows what ther are talking about cuz they list things like these links, they didn't pull that stuff out of thier ass, they spend HOURS, DAYS, WEEKS researching it and now are trying to pass on what we have found so the new guy doesn't make the same mistake we once did or may have without knowing the FACTS about it.

ONCE AGAIN...THE POWER SUPPLY IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR TOWER...DON'T SKIMP ON IT OR SOONER OR LATER YOU WILL BE SORRY.
March 4, 2007 4:00:26 PM

I have always said the max theoretical power caluclated is for the most part unattainable in real world usage.

Quote:
BFG GeForce 8800 GTX review, guru3d.com"]We used a new Core 2 Duo X6800 Extreme Processor, the new nForce 680i mainboard, a Zalman cooler, DVD-ROM and WD Raptor drive. All that in combo with the GeForce 8800 GTX summed up to a peak load of roughly 365 Watts.
[/url]

This is measured at the outlet, so we have to consider power factor & efficiency - lets assume the PF is negligible (APFC) and 85% efficient - that would make it 310W on the DC side. In fact, let's put all of that on the +12 for S&G for 26A draw at max (and once again that is unattainable since the crossloading is negelected) so that is less than 70% of the unit's 38A capacity and definitely less if you consider the +5 and +3.3 watts.

We can argue theory all we want to, truth be told - facts are facts. Just like reading on the the kill-a-watt meter - 100% fact and 0% BS.

I have had PSUs not handle my capacity, they don't go blowing up right away. There are telltale signs before it actually happens, and some low cost and innovative ways to deal with it. Personally I would just add another PSU like I did back when I started OCing my 9800 pro.
March 21, 2008 6:46:20 AM

Quote:
doolittle wrote ...This is measured at the outlet, so we have to consider power factor & efficiency - lets assume the PF is negligible (APFC) and 85% efficient - that would make it 310W on the DC side.


most of your post is very true and valid...kudos.

however I think your a little confused about PSU efficiency.
with an efficiency of 85% it DOES NOT mean that the PSU will run at 85% of wattage/amp output the majority of the time. in fact efficiency does not have anything to do with the amount of output such as your 310W reference.

what efficiency DOES mean on a PSU is that upto 85% of the power (volts) coming into the PSU from the wall outlet will be converted into wattage/amperage. and the remaining 15% is lost to heat in the convertion process from volts>>amps

so what this means is that an 85% efficient PSU will use less power to output the 365W, than a 70% efficient PSU will.

they will BOTH achieve and putout the rated wattage/amps for the PSU, but 85%'er will cost you a little less over time on your power bill.

Quote:
BFG GeForce 8800 GTX review, guru3d.com"]We used a new Core 2 Duo X6800 Extreme Processor, the new nForce 680i mainboard, a Zalman cooler, DVD-ROM and WD Raptor drive. All that in combo with the GeForce 8800 GTX summed up to a peak load of roughly 365 Watts.
[/url]

this is a prime example of what I was talking about in above posts.
yes they measured that system running at ~365W(roughly 30A). So, the FACT that a PSU will run better, cooler, more efficient, and with a longer life span when running at 30-70% of output means this: to have a PSU powering a system running at 365W (~30A) you need a 1200W 100A PSU to power the system if you want the PSU running at 30%. while providing that 365W/~30A.

if you want your PSU running at 70%, you need a 550W/45A PSU

a 750W/60A PSU will run at about 50% output when providing the 365W/30A power.

this is the whole point of my posts here.

habber also finally agreed he could do better/safer, but that his PSU was fine for now and safe is expensive...

here's my point. do you want to spend another $100-150 for a safe PSU? or go cheaper, and eventually spend that cash on replacing the components that the "Cheaper" PSU took out when it left???

either way eventually you will be spending that extra cash.
when the cheaper PSU burns up they have been known to catch fire, then thiers the more common pain in the ass....you got no PC while you replace the PSU and whatever it fried...

it's your choice people....buy a good PSU, spending roughly $200-250 for a good 750w+ (way more if you need a 1000W or 1200W). or kick yourself in the ass cuz you didn't.

new update: for those of you jumping on the bandwagon of the new nVidia 9800 GX2 (march 2008), or the ATI 3870 X2, check things out closely first.
these are two power hungry VGA card's....in benches at Tomshardware
these card were both eating up about 250W AT IDLE and 340-350W at full load. if you try running one of these on a piddle ass 550W PSU, the card is toast.

check nVidia SLI zone certified power supplies before buying the card or a PSU to run it. make sure your PSU can handle the card.
they are all 1100W+







March 22, 2008 3:43:18 PM

for a 3 way sli all the certified psu's are 1100+ but there are several psu's around the 700W that are sli approved that can run the 8800 series.
March 22, 2008 5:47:16 PM

Curtain you are taking this aging thing way to seriously. You are listing the absolute worst case scenarios. You also miss the entire point of your argument. A cheap 1000w power supply would blow the OPs system before a high end 600w would, regardless of AMP or WATT specifications. I am sorry to inform you, but you more or less missed the point so that your facts were true, but the point they were backing is wrong. Also if you like to fight with other people about your opinions, no matter the facts they still are opinions, then join a debate team, because your immaturity and blatant insults are not welcome here. In the end, all you have to do is read some reviews on the current power supplies on the market and buy one of the ones that are the most recommended, again buying a 1000w power supply does not insure safety, even if its rated at 100A or higher. Unless you are not planning on running 2x 9800 GX2s or 2x 3870 X2s with a oc'd to the max quadcore with 8+ fans and 4 HDDs, then do not worry about 1000w power supplies, get a high end, Tier 1, power supply that is 150-200w above what your system needs so that you can upgrade and feel safe.

The system should be fine with that power supply, even though it is not the greatest. The most likely problem IS the video card, a lot of video cards end up with damaged PCIE slots, happened to me. Also try another PCIE slot with the card, one might be bad.
March 22, 2008 5:50:37 PM

taofledermaus said:
I've been seeing more and more PSU's coming from companies such as OCZ, coming out with their own PSU. I would say the best bet is to avoid these companies. It's probably wiser to buy from a company that solely makes PSU's, Enermax, pcpower, etc. than companies jumping on the bandwagon and putting their name on cookie-cutter PSU's that probably all come from the same factory in China.


No one makes their own PSUs anymore, as a matter of fact my PC P&C Silencer 750w is actually made by seasonic, PC P&C did not make it.
!