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Choice for OS for new gaming computer

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February 27, 2007 9:06:51 PM

Windows Vista? XP? XP Professional 64? Just looking to find out what you guys are using if you build a computer today.

More about : choice gaming computer

February 27, 2007 9:35:45 PM

Quote:
Windows Vista? XP? XP Professional 64? Just looking to find out what you guys are using if you build a computer today.


Get some form of XP, with the upgrade coupon for Vista. You've got until 3/15 to buy it from newegg. Wait a while to install Vista.....bugs, drivers, program compatibility,...all issues right now with Vista.
February 27, 2007 10:42:03 PM

^^^ seconded. XP + free upgrade FTW!

IMO, the best gaming os right now is xp 32-bit. Sure it won't run DX10 games. How many DX10 games are out now?
Related resources
February 27, 2007 10:48:13 PM

I don't see any reason to buy vista right now or even in march. There is only one reason any of us would get it and that is DX10. And how many games are out there that run in DX10, none and we don't even know the release date of the most anticipated one, Crysis. I guess you could get xp pro with the upgrade coupon and get vista before the experation and not install it until it's worth it (like after SP1 is released)
February 27, 2007 11:53:53 PM

the reason to buy in march is because more diverse dx10 cards are coming out and dx10 games are getting closer... basically the whole dx10 thing is ramping up. and that is really the only reason i'd consider switching to vista. for dx10.
a b 4 Gaming
February 28, 2007 12:09:33 AM

Quote:


Get some form of XP, with the upgrade coupon for Vista. You've got until 3/15 to buy it from newegg. Wait a while to install Vista.....bugs, drivers, program compatibility,...all issues right now with Vista.


Ditto
February 28, 2007 12:16:48 AM

But what is dx10 worth if there is no software that uses it?
February 28, 2007 12:19:26 AM

XP Pro.

Screw Vista, it's a hardware hog and bad excuse for a hardware upgrade.
February 28, 2007 12:26:13 AM

Quote:
But what is dx10 worth if there is no software that uses it?


i'm not saying that you NEED dx10 in march, i'm just saying that its starting to ramp up some more. i won't be buying into either vista or dx10 for a bit now, but thats simply because i don't have the money to do so. would i if i had the money at this moment? well, probably not. but the 8600 ultra looks damn good for someone whose using an ancient agp card right now.

but RJ basically said all thats needed; thats the best rout imo.
February 28, 2007 1:21:34 AM

Quote:
But what is dx10 worth if there is no software that uses it?


i'm not saying that you NEED dx10 in march, i'm just saying that its starting to ramp up some more. i won't be buying into either vista or dx10 for a bit now, but thats simply because i don't have the money to do so. would i if i had the money at this moment? well, probably not. [bold]but the 8600 ultra looks damn good for someone whose using an ancient agp card right now.
[/bold]
but RJ basically said all thats needed; thats the best rout imo.anything from 7600/ x1650 and above looks damn sexy to me and my x800pro :cry: 
March 1, 2007 12:19:54 AM

Quote:
anything from 7600/ x1650 and above looks damn sexy to me and my x800pro :cry: 


your x800 pro looks damn sexy compared to my 9550 agp

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

omg the sad thing is that i can play 2142 on med/high o_0
March 1, 2007 3:20:02 AM

ACk, that's what I play at with my x800 and it barely chugs along. I can't imagine what your FPS are with a 9550 8O
March 1, 2007 5:28:49 AM

The reason to get Vista in March is that it is a free upgrade. If you buy XP, get the Vista upgrade coupon. Jump through the hoops and you get a copy of Vista to install when ever you like, like next year?? You then will get Service packs free.
March 1, 2007 6:57:40 AM

Had you not said 'gaming' system, I'd have said: Linux (and even then, depending on the games you want, Linux+Cedega may just do the trick).

If you want to get Vista later (the coupon is indeed an idea), save yourself the pain and ensure your upgrade coupon is for Home Basic: no 3D interface, thus lighter drag on the hardware. It does support DX10 though. It also costs a hundred bucks less than Home Premium.
March 1, 2007 7:32:01 AM

Quote:
anything from 7600/ x1650 and above looks damn sexy to me and my x800pro :cry: 


your x800 pro looks damn sexy compared to my 9550 agp

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


:(  Meh...[Sorry Ninja :wink: ]

How about a faulty Radeon 9550 and now, borrowed no-name FX5200 128MB and AMD Venice 3000+?
March 1, 2007 8:49:13 AM

Wow. These guys all give horrible advice. I'm a bit surprised. If you're building a good system...get Vista Premium.

You don't want to upgrade from XP, I heard there are issues with it. You want a full version Vista Premium. The "beta" drivers won't be beta long, and XP still runs you $80 or more. OEM's are selling Vista loaded PC's. Do yourself a favor and save yourself the $80. I imagine that within a year more than half of us will be on Vista. The rest of us can't afford it.
March 1, 2007 9:06:15 AM

Of course you don't want to install Vista directly over XP, but it isn't exactly that hard to back up what you want to keep and do a clean install of Vista anyways. But your advice is horrible too; until there is an actual need for Vista, i.e. DX10, you don't want to slow yourself down with a bloated OS any more than you have to.
March 1, 2007 9:08:18 AM

Crysis. Coming soon. Vista will play your DX9 games. An 8800GTS card and a Core2Duo will run your games fluidly. Who cares if it's "bloated?"

Upgrade CD = MUST HAVE XP installed. Maybe you don't understand what "upgrade" means.
March 1, 2007 9:45:24 AM

You said nothing of using an upgrade version; seems you're unable to read your own posts correctly.
Quote:
You want a full version Vista Premium.


Anyone and everyone should care that the software they use is bloated. Face it, if software developers would spend a bit more time to optimize their programs you wouldn't need to upgrade quite so often. Also, Crysis is delayed until the summer which is ~3 months away at the earliest, not exactly soon.
March 1, 2007 10:50:10 AM

Quote:
You said nothing of using an upgrade version; seems you're unable to read your own posts correctly.
You want a full version Vista Premium.



how about you read the thread properly, people were advising getting XP with the upgrade coupon, the upgrade coupon gets you the Upgrade version of the Vista CD which = must have XP installed for it to upgrade

the upgrade process is a nightmare and will leave you crying that nothing works right

anyway... if you're building a PC in the next month or so, I'd have to go vista, driver support is a bit poor right now, but it will save you hassle in the long run of building up XP just how you like it, to then have to clean install of Vista (for which you'd also have to buy a whole new licence or be left in VistaUpgrade hell)

I'll be installing Vista, clean install, the same day my first DX10 game lands on my doorstep
March 1, 2007 11:16:55 AM

If get XP w/ my new system & I just install a few games on it, can I just wipe my HD clean w/ a fresh install of vista when I'm ready to switch?

Or, will XP leave my system confused when trying to upgrade to vista even w/ a clean wipe? (pls excuse my PC ignorance :wink: )
March 1, 2007 11:24:05 AM

i have a dualboot of vista and xp, didnt plan on it, but i have almost fully moved to vista, including all my games, it just feels "snappier" for some reason.. and all my games run flawlessly on it.

some games even tend to run smoother under vista for some reason, the memory management is also superb.. i dont care what ppl say, it screams with my lowly 1gb ram.

It does seem superior to XP Pro, although i dont think i'd go out and buy it just yet, mine was free through my IT Dept at school.
March 1, 2007 11:40:44 AM

Quote:
If get XP w/ my new system & I just install a few games on it, can I just wipe my HD clean w/ a fresh install of vista when I'm ready to switch?

Or, will XP leave my system confused when trying to upgrade to vista even w/ a clean wipe? (pls excuse my PC ignorance :wink: )


if you get a full version of Vista (e.g. not an upgrade copy), you'll be able to format the drive before you install vista, thus wiping all evidence of XP from the machine

on a side note; I think I read somewhere that you can trick the upgrade disk in to acting as a clean install, but it took a very prescribed set of steps to do this (and I can't now find the link to these instructions)
March 1, 2007 11:50:01 AM

Quote:
Crysis. Coming soon. Vista will play your DX9 games. An 8800GTS card and a Core2Duo will run your games fluidly. Who cares if it's "bloated?"

Upgrade CD = MUST HAVE XP installed. Maybe you don't understand what "upgrade" means.

Dude, he can get the OEM version of XP and get a free upgrade to Vista. What will he get when that arrives? An OEM version of Vista. In effect you get two licenses.
March 1, 2007 12:00:22 PM

Here is a good bit of reading that has given many people the bad taste about Vista. Claims that may contradict personal experience are supported in these articles. As a leecher, I am extremely hesitant to make the switch from Xp. Some of the points brought to light may in fact disuade you from doing the same.

Good luck in your decision.

Vista vs. Xp Benchies

Vista's Skeletons

...And another more recent


Gaming in Vista
March 1, 2007 12:34:24 PM

Quote:
Crysis. Coming soon. Vista will play your DX9 games. An 8800GTS card and a Core2Duo will run your games fluidly. Who cares if it's "bloated?"

Upgrade CD = MUST HAVE XP installed. Maybe you don't understand what "upgrade" means.

Dude, he can get the OEM version of XP and get a free upgrade to Vista. What will he get when that arrives? An OEM version of Vista. In effect you get two licenses.

not true, we build systems here at work and what the customer gets is a normal upgrade CD for vista, which de-registers the XP licence when you validate it (making the XP licence invalid)

the free upgrade to vista with OEM copies is the same coupon that ships with pre-built systems from people like Dell etc.
March 1, 2007 1:20:15 PM

Quote:
Crysis. Coming soon. Vista will play your DX9 games. An 8800GTS card and a Core2Duo will run your games fluidly. Who cares if it's "bloated?"

Upgrade CD = MUST HAVE XP installed. Maybe you don't understand what "upgrade" means.

Dude, he can get the OEM version of XP and get a free upgrade to Vista. What will he get when that arrives? An OEM version of Vista. In effect you get two licenses.

not true, we build systems here at work and what the customer gets is a normal upgrade CD for vista, which de-registers the XP licence when you validate it (making the XP licence invalid)

the free upgrade to vista with OEM copies is the same coupon that ships with pre-built systems from people like Dell etc.

I'm looking at the Vista DVD that I just got from Moduslink as a free upgrade. While it does indeed state that it must be used on the same machine with the original XP licence (even though there's a way around that), it still fulfills the OP's needs: An XP licence to use today with an upgrade to Vista whenever he feels like it. He pays the OEM price, gets XP, and also gets the free Vista upgrade. I see that you're a new member to this community. You should know that most people here build their own systems and have been buying OEM versions of Windows to use with their builds for years. You don't pay retail if you build your own system and you don't really have to even if you don't build it. The difference is you don't get tech support.
March 1, 2007 1:26:22 PM

The 'clean install' procedure for an 'upgrade' of Vista is simple:
- Install Vista on the blank HD. Don't enter a serial number yet, it will allow you to run the OS for 60 days. Preferably, choose the same version than the one you want to upgrade to. If it still asks you for a key, look for a Vista trial key. Those have the same effect.
- do a Vista upgrade from the Vista DVD. Now you can enter your serial number.

There! Clean Vista Upgrade!

Going back to my Free 3D desktop now.
March 1, 2007 2:15:45 PM

Quote:
Crysis. Coming soon. Vista will play your DX9 games. An 8800GTS card and a Core2Duo will run your games fluidly. Who cares if it's "bloated?"

Upgrade CD = MUST HAVE XP installed. Maybe you don't understand what "upgrade" means.

Dude, he can get the OEM version of XP and get a free upgrade to Vista. What will he get when that arrives? An OEM version of Vista. In effect you get two licenses.

not true, we build systems here at work and what the customer gets is a normal upgrade CD for vista, which de-registers the XP licence when you validate it (making the XP licence invalid)

the free upgrade to vista with OEM copies is the same coupon that ships with pre-built systems from people like Dell etc.

I'm looking at the Vista DVD that I just got from Moduslink as a free upgrade. While it does indeed state that it must be used on the same machine with the original XP licence (even though there's a way around that), it still fulfills the OP's needs: An XP licence to use today with an upgrade to Vista whenever he feels like it. He pays the OEM price, gets XP, and also gets the free Vista upgrade. I see that you're a new member to this community. You should know that most people here build their own systems and have been buying OEM versions of Windows to use with their builds for years. You don't pay retail if you build your own system and you don't really have to even if you don't build it. The difference is you don't get tech support.

I'm fully aware of what OEM means.

You stated that if you buy the OEM XP with upgrade coupon you then get an OEM Vista DVD, that is not true, you get the Upgrade DVD which by default will only upgrade a previous install of XP (unless you can find those specific instructions on hacking the upgrade install to let you do a clean install).

The guys best bet is still to install Vista right now and go through a few teething problems, than install XP and have to do a semi-hacked clean install of Vista in the next couple of months IMO.

If he's building a gaming PC now, it should have the brute force to overcome any minor performance hit in Vista while the drivers mature.

If you want to get personal, Yes I only recently signed up to this forum, but I've been reading Toms Hardware from when Tom still actually wrote for it, have over 10 years experience in the IT industry and build PC's to sell to blue chip clients on a weekly basis, as well as dozens of gaming PC's per year for friends and family. (MCSE in NT4 and Win2003 and work for a Microsoft Certified Partner company)

To date I've specced, built and installed 10 Vista PC's, and although a couple of them were a pain to get drivers for (mainly because they were miniITX fanless machines to go in to industrial environments), they're all now on site and performing 24/7 line critical production services flawlessly.
March 1, 2007 2:57:56 PM

nah, go for vista, unless you religously format your PC i can almost garantee - with or with out coupon, if you put XP on you'll never get round to putting vista on.

no point putting old tech on a new PC, also if anyone ask how to do something in vista, you will proberly already know, making you out to be more intelligent.
March 1, 2007 3:31:40 PM

Quote:
You stated that if you buy the OEM XP with upgrade coupon you then get an OEM Vista DVD, that is not true, you get the Upgrade DVD which by default will only upgrade a previous install of XP (unless you can find those specific instructions on hacking the upgrade install to let you do a clean install).

I already acknowledged that.

Quote:
The guys best bet is still to install Vista right now and go through a few teething problems, than install XP and have to do a semi-hacked clean install of Vista in the next couple of months IMO.

And I disagree totally.

Quote:
If you want to get personal, Yes I only recently signed up to this forum, but I've been reading Toms Hardware from when Tom still actually wrote for it, have over 10 years experience in the IT industry and build PC's to sell to blue chip clients on a weekly basis, as well as dozens of gaming PC's per year for friends and family. (MCSE in NT4 and Win2003 and work for a Microsoft Certified Partner company)

Thanks for your résumé. I too have been reading THG for eons. I have also used Windows since version 2. But unlike you, I am merely an enthusiast. You seem to have a vested interest in pushing Vista. I have also been a Vista supporter (and sometimes critic) in these forums since last summer, when I started using it. I agree that it is the best Windows ever and also the first version of Windows that actually looks good. I'm using it right now. I just don't think people should be pushed into buying Vista if they don't need it. And the ability to get XP will soon be gone, forcing users to buy Vista even if they don't want it. I'm just encouraging the OP to take advantage of this limited window of opportunity which will allow him to get both XP and Vista for the same price.
March 1, 2007 7:08:59 PM

Quote:


:(  Meh...[Sorry Ninja :wink: ]

How about a faulty Radeon 9550 and now, borrowed no-name FX5200 128MB and AMD Venice 3000+?


hahaha i see your venice 3000+ and raise you my skt. A sempron 2500+

as in my system is much worse than yours.

mwuahahahaha

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

yeah and @ alcattle, the free coupon business is wonderful, but because i'm not buying a new xp, i personally couldn't do that :wink:

otherwise thats like perfect. thats just WHAT you need to do, OP. xp now and vista in a bit. i have friends who still game on vista, yeah they say they get worse frames, but w/e. they say still playable.

Quote:
ACk, that's what I play at with my x800 and it barely chugs along. I can't imagine what your FPS are with a 9550 8O
Quote:


i find mine to be quite playable, actually, even w/ my (overclocked) sempron... it really is crazy... i SHOULDN'T get the performance i get, its like impossible. oh well i'll take it :D 
March 1, 2007 8:42:10 PM

I don't think this should neccessarily be an XP vs. Vista benchmark showdown. Since you are building a new PC right now (as I am, meaning I will finish buying all my components early next week) I would strongly reccomend Vista. Obviously it isn't keeping up entirely with XP, but those issues will be fixed, Vista is the best choice for the future, especially if you are getting a DX10 card or dual core. It just doesnt make much sense to me to buy XP with the upgrade and then have to "jump through the hoops" in a few months just to upgrade. If you are building the PC now, get Vista.
March 1, 2007 9:14:21 PM

A lot of crap flew around since my last post some 14 hrs ago. I have to restate the fact that a "clean" upgrade from XP to Vista WILL nullify your XP cd. I read an articles (I believe it was Anandtech) and they recommended getting a new Vista CD and not the upgrade. On a powerful new PC, get Vista. Hands down. How some people can say that it's "not needed" is ludicrious, as M$ is ending support for XP (no new updates). If you're building a good PC, get Vista. It's sexy, better organized, has cooler tools, and drivers are on the way. It's the NEXT OS, and it's already here and well on it's way to being tuned. I bought XP Pro x64 nearly a year ago...to watch drivers being constantly made for an OS that will never come to light (it runs fine) was ok...it's improved. Now Vista on the other hand will have an enormous user-base. It's already better than XP x64. DX10. You'll end up buying it anyway. Just save your $100 and buy it now.
March 1, 2007 9:45:27 PM

Quote:
Vista premium right now, but most drivers are beta and im having some issues including not being able to run the new CnC 3 demo because of Vista. So stick with Xp pro till at least summertime...

i make it a "rule" never to upgrade to a new version of a OS till 1 year after the new OS has come out. Example: XP > Vista/longhorn. ONLY because of all the bugs they will find in the first year of retail.
March 1, 2007 10:00:22 PM

If I was only upgrading then no, I wouldnt upgrade to the Vista just yet, but seeing as he is building a new PC right it is the best option IMO.
March 2, 2007 6:44:02 AM

@everybody:

This thread is getting pretty personal, I think.
I don't see how being the 'next OS' makes Vista the best gaming system.

From what I could read of the specs, what I could test, and the benchmarks I've personally run on it, it's slower, a pain to work with, DRM-ladden (even while gaming), a resources guzzler (I don't care what you say, an OS should be hardly noticeable, it's the apps that have priority; 5% more CPU use than XP is 5% too much - and I consider XP to be bloated too), and DX10 (not even being here yet and merely coming up to par with OpenGL) does not compensate the absence of EAX sound acceleration (yup, check on Creative's website, EAX can be used ONLY if the game BYPASSES the OS to access the hardware - right now if it's not OpenAL, it's not accelerated).

Frankly, a gaming system should be a console - especially considering today's machines. For the rest, a PC is a PC: you do stuff with it, not only gaming. Building a PC for games only is a waste of money; for the rest, Vista adds NOTHING to XP (more clutter, more teeth cavities, more wasted disk space, less control, hardly any extra security).

For the personal list:
The list of MSCE guys I have known is long. However, of those:
- one was swearing by MS but had a hard time making the difference between a CPU and a hard disk
- another one had it just to look better on his resume: he used its related skills only to maintain the Exchange server
- yet another one had it for his resume only and some AD knowledge; the rest of the servers under his responsibility were running Red Hat Linux
- one for the road, teaching ASP .Net at a university, decided to forego it and get heavy on PHP when I introduced it to him
- and yet another one, once presented with the principles of a LAMP server and its flexibility, started his conversion.

You'll understand that I think that people saying 'I know more than you because I'm a MSCE for a M$ Partner' are worth naught in my book - at least not until they've added 'oh, and I've integrated seven Linux/BSD/Solaris servers to do the heavy lifting in my network'.
March 2, 2007 7:32:18 AM

First of all..forget all the DRM crap you've been reading about.
This only applies to media that you purchase that has DRM installed such as iTunes/Napster and pretty much any other music store.
Your collection of mp3's that you probably have will be fine and will not be affected by DRM, same as all your video files.
HD/Blueray will work on your pc but only if your video card is HDCP compliant (eg 7950GX2,X1950XT,8800).
Your monitor must also be HDCP compliant (Dell's range of widescreen monitors). Only then will your pc play BlueRay/HD-DVD discs providing that they do have DRM in them.
For example I have a ripped copy of "The 5th Element" from HD which works perfectly on my system as the DRM has been removed from it. No worries there and Vista plays it no problem.

Another thing is gaming..sure you drop a few framerates in Vista but within 1-2 months this will be all sorted once proper drivers are released by both ATI/Nvidia and Microsoft.
I had Vista on my system, took it off because I wanted to play some older games, reinstalled XP ,didn't bother with the old games because of Rainbow 6:Las Vegas and decided to jump into Vista again.
Why? Because Nvidia released updated drivers in Feb for the 8800GTX plus I'll probably only be playing the newer games not the older ones.
Battlefield 2/2142 works perfect in Vista as well as Quake 4,Far-Cry/R6:Las Vegas/Oblivion etc
So if you're building a new pc and you only plan to play the latest games on it go for Vista.
March 2, 2007 7:48:39 AM

'Forget all the DRM crap': frankly, if you need the extra work to rip the DRM off all your media, you may as well stay under XP, and not have to jump through hoops to do it.
The exact point is: DRM systems in Vista are dormant until one (1, ONE) piece of DRM-enabled content is found on it. When it reaches that point, it gets locked down tighter than a virgin's pussy!
Report: a guy was playing his MP3s happily through his S/PDIF sound system; then he wanted to playback a CD, which actually contained a DRM software. Instantly, sound died: the S/PDIF output had been disabled. And this is no bug: in order to guarantee that no DRM-protected content cannot be copied in good quality, all high-quality, no DRM-protected interfaces will be shut down.

Example: you playback streaming music on your system; you have an expensive Surround sound system connected through S/PDIF (it's GOOD), and you listen to this music happily; then you insert a Sony CD, and try to play it: suddenly, sound doesn't work anymore; your $10,000 sound system remains silent. Why? Vista has detected a DRM-protected media, and consequently shut down all hi-fi ports not DRM-protected - including yhour S/PDIF output. Solution? Renounce the CD, and reboot. Cool, eh?

Another example: you have a HD video file that you've made yourself with your brand new HD numeric camcorder. Then you insert a protected HD-DVD; your screen, which is HDCP compliant, and your video card, which is HDCP compliant BUT THE TWO CAN'T GET ALONG ON HDCP, will suddenly display reduced resolution videos...
You don't believe me? That's why someone broke the HDDVD encryption system: he couldn't playback his legally purchased HDDVDs on his legally purchased system.
March 2, 2007 11:27:58 AM

Quote:
'Forget all the DRM crap': frankly, if you need the extra work to rip the DRM off all your media, you may as well stay under XP, and not have to jump through hoops to do it.
The exact point is: DRM systems in Vista are dormant until one (1, ONE) piece of DRM-enabled content is found on it. When it reaches that point, it gets locked down tighter than a virgin's pussy!
Report: a guy was playing his MP3s happily through his S/PDIF sound system; then he wanted to playback a CD, which actually contained a DRM software. Instantly, sound died: the S/PDIF output had been disabled. And this is no bug: in order to guarantee that no DRM-protected content cannot be copied in good quality, all high-quality, no DRM-protected interfaces will be shut down.

Example: you playback streaming music on your system; you have an expensive Surround sound system connected through S/PDIF (it's GOOD), and you listen to this music happily; then you insert a Sony CD, and try to play it: suddenly, sound doesn't work anymore; your $10,000 sound system remains silent. Why? Vista has detected a DRM-protected media, and consequently shut down all hi-fi ports not DRM-protected - including yhour S/PDIF output. Solution? Renounce the CD, and reboot. Cool, eh?

Another example: you have a HD video file that you've made yourself with your brand new HD numeric camcorder. Then you insert a protected HD-DVD; your screen, which is HDCP compliant, and your video card, which is HDCP compliant BUT THE TWO CAN'T GET ALONG ON HDCP, will suddenly display reduced resolution videos...
You don't believe me? That's why someone broke the HDDVD encryption system: he couldn't playback his legally purchased HDDVDs on his legally purchased system.



well then it's very simple..don't buy a cd with DRM...I refuse to purchase any cd with drm labelled on it..the Sony fiasco is a prime example of what can go wrong..
If everyone refused to buy a disc with drm in it I pretty sure they wouldn't be long dropping it..but then again it's the RIAA..who ever said they had brains..
As regards movies I've no problem with paying for a DRM DVD so that it can't be copied because movies are better value than a music cd.
However I wouldn't be watching it on my pc but rather an LCD.
At the end of the day this is a gaming pc thread and not a movie thread.
The buyer might well purchase XP but he will upgrade to vista regardless once DX10 games start coming out in the next few months.
March 2, 2007 12:54:36 PM

Quote:
@everybody:

This thread is getting pretty personal, I think.
I don't see how being the 'next OS' makes Vista the best gaming system.

From what I could read of the specs, what I could test, and the benchmarks I've personally run on it, it's slower, a pain to work with, DRM-ladden (even while gaming), a resources guzzler (I don't care what you say, an OS should be hardly noticeable, it's the apps that have priority; 5% more CPU use than XP is 5% too much - and I consider XP to be bloated too), and DX10 (not even being here yet and merely coming up to par with OpenGL) does not compensate the absence of EAX sound acceleration (yup, check on Creative's website, EAX can be used ONLY if the game BYPASSES the OS to access the hardware - right now if it's not OpenAL, it's not accelerated).

Frankly, a gaming system should be a console - especially considering today's machines. For the rest, a PC is a PC: you do stuff with it, not only gaming. Building a PC for games only is a waste of money; for the rest, Vista adds NOTHING to XP (more clutter, more teeth cavities, more wasted disk space, less control, hardly any extra security).

For the personal list:
The list of MSCE guys I have known is long. However, of those:
- one was swearing by MS but had a hard time making the difference between a CPU and a hard disk
- another one had it just to look better on his resume: he used its related skills only to maintain the Exchange server
- yet another one had it for his resume only and some AD knowledge; the rest of the servers under his responsibility were running Red Hat Linux
- one for the road, teaching ASP .Net at a university, decided to forego it and get heavy on PHP when I introduced it to him
- and yet another one, once presented with the principles of a LAMP server and its flexibility, started his conversion.

You'll understand that I think that people saying 'I know more than you because I'm a MSCE for a M$ Partner' are worth naught in my book - at least not until they've added 'oh, and I've integrated seven Linux/BSD/Solaris servers to do the heavy lifting in my network'.


I find it interesting how you state that it's getting personal, and then make it personal by insulting people based on some biased personal experience.

As far as "I don't see how being the 'next OS' makes Vista the best gaming system" I don't recall anyone saying it was best for gaming. We said it was best for a new system. Obviously mature drivers are better for gaming, but the idea is to put money into a system and have it last for 3 years. Not buy something that's already becoming outdated. You don't buy a minimal PSU if you plan to upgrade. You buy the one you'll be using in the future. Same applies to OS. Buy the one you'll eventually be using. Even if his system only lasts for 3 years, it's likely he'll be using that Vista CD on some old system still. Would I rather play future games on my new OS? Or old ones on my old OS? Hmm...I don't know...I think I'll take Crysis over Call of Duty 2. I love how you're suddenly an expert on how bad Vista is. You're right, an OS is more than just gaming. It takes some getting used to, and it's not mature yet...but it won't take as long as you think. A lot of companies scrambled for XP Pro x64 drivers, and they're more ready to write drivers for Vista. It gave them a heads up. This isn't the 80's anymore and we're not upgrading to Win95 from 3.1, or to NT from 95. Hell, ATI releases MONTHLY catalyst drivers. Improvement like clockwork. Obviously NVidia is throwing their backs into making their 8800's work more seamlessly. M$ is largely to blame with any Vista issues, but XP has crashes too. Do your homework, make your own choice. I think we've all said enough and since this is getting "personal" maybe we should get the thread locked.
March 2, 2007 12:57:59 PM

yup - it's long enough as it is.

I wasn't meaning to be insulting; of all the MSCE I mentioned, only the first was actually an ass. The others had, at least, not the pretention to be better than the others only because they had a Microsoft cert - they were good, if only because they used the right tools for the jobs.
March 2, 2007 1:28:14 PM

Techies always want to feel important and knowledgeable. It's annoying, and you'll find it here too.
March 2, 2007 1:56:07 PM

I know, and it is quite natural. However, I find strange that you more often see "I'm a MSCE - I know computers" claimed loud and strong and much less often "I'm a Unix guru; worship me". The latter usually appears more as an afterthough (like "oh - I had to setup a Solaris server and 15 clients last night; making it run nice with Squid was a bit tough"), in fact.

Personally I'm not afraid to do a Bash script here or there, parse a ./configure make script or go dabbling in the registry and edit .ini files; however I usually learn more from Unix gurus than I do from MSCE (the latter, I more often than not teach to).

Thus you'll understand my deeply rooted suspiscion of actual n00bishness when someone claims "I'm a MSCE" - sounds like those online diplomas...

for a laugh: www.userfriendly.org
March 2, 2007 2:30:57 PM

Quote:
You stated that if you buy the OEM XP with upgrade coupon you then get an OEM Vista DVD, that is not true, you get the Upgrade DVD which by default will only upgrade a previous install of XP (unless you can find those specific instructions on hacking the upgrade install to let you do a clean install).


I already acknowledged that.


No you didn't, you told a bare faced lie in your first post and then tried to half back peddle when I pointed this out whilst belittling me for being a "noob" to the forums.
March 2, 2007 2:38:40 PM

Quote:
yup - it's long enough as it is.

I wasn't meaning to be insulting; of all the MSCE I mentioned, only the first was actually an ass. The others had, at least, not the pretention to be better than the others only because they had a Microsoft cert - they were good, if only because they used the right tools for the jobs.


To everyone other than the guy I was directly quoting earlier, I wasn't trying to "look big and important", I was purely highlighting that the guy was trying to call me a noob because I'd only recently signed up to Tom's Hardware Forum, which I kinda take exception to as he's probably built like 2 PC's ever, and I've been building gaming rigs on a monthly basis for over 10 years. (And hey, personally I like my 4 box Linux/Apache cluster for serving websites from, each tool for the right job eh).

Basically he posted a complete lie (that buying OEM XP would get you an OEM Vista disc), and then rather than admit he was wrong just resorted to insulting me as a "noob" instead.

I have no vested interest in pushing Vista, we sell all our OS's at cost price to our customers so we make nothing from it, and we choose OS's based on job in hand... the company I work for just pay to be part of the MS partner prog so we get all our in house software free and get a shiny badge to stick on sales brochures (we're also Mitsubishi, Siemens, Rockwell authorised integrators / partners etc.)

And lets face it, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics...

but it still beats doing any work when I have 6 weeks holiday starting in... an hour :) 
March 3, 2007 7:05:24 AM

Guys and gals...listen. We all have our specialties, and are all of different ages. I don't know much about the Beatles, but I can claim to know something about music and be an enthusiast. You don't have to know everything to know something. The problem comes when we have braggerts and people who can't admit to not knowing something. When I said "techies" I meant EVERYONE who likes computers. I have yet to meet someone into computers who isn't rather arrogant. :-P Hell, I'm that way too. It's annoying as hell to hear someone talk about something they obviously know little about. We all need to take a step back and say "who here knows the most about the given subject?" And then when we share, say "I THINK" instead of stating it as fact. Even things you're damn sure are fact, sometimes aren't. I've been called out before, and been mistaken on several things.
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