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E4300, is 1:1 Ratio the way to go?

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February 28, 2007 4:33:00 PM

Hi folks,

As the topic states. Is 1:1 Ratio the way to go with this chip when using good DDR2 800 Ram. I'm still fairly new to this OCing/Building (this was my first) So your thoughts on this would be great.

Oh and if you wouldn't mind a quick explanation aswell (I havent got a clue about the ratios and which is best and why etc....)

Thanks in advance!

Vic.

EDIT* I am currently running at 2400MHz 43Deg Full Orthos Load Stable with the ram set to 2:3 Ratio 399Mhz I didnt want to super charge the chip 2.4GHz is fine for me but I just want to make sure that I have the best setup and that it's not going to go pop any time soon ;) 

More about : e4300 ratio

March 1, 2007 8:08:44 AM

There is a Core2Duo guide stickied at the top of this section, but it doesn't cover 4300s. There must be a noob guide for OC 4300s somewhere.
March 1, 2007 11:45:44 AM

go for 400x8=3.2ghz and 1:1 with ram
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March 1, 2007 12:37:00 PM

I tried that, but I had to use InSaNe vCore... (75 Volts! No $hit! :p  )after all it is a 100% FSB OC. I'm thinking of upgrading to the E6420 when it comes out so I can make the most of my memory, and perhaps hit 3.6GHz or thereabouts. Nice 8)
March 1, 2007 3:08:59 PM

I would agree with the 400x8=3.2 with memory even 1to1.
March 1, 2007 3:37:15 PM

I was planning on getting an e4300 soon, but now I'm not so sure. Is it really that hard to get to 3.2 ghz on these chips? Plankmeister, what voltage did you really have to use to get to 3.2? Just curious.


And yes, 1:1 memory ratio IS the way to go.
March 1, 2007 3:39:41 PM

Quote:
Hi folks,

As the topic states. Is 1:1 Ratio the way to go with this chip when using good DDR2 800 Ram. I'm still fairly new to this OCing/Building (this was my first) So your thoughts on this would be great.

Oh and if you wouldn't mind a quick explanation aswell (I havent got a clue about the ratios and which is best and why etc....)

Thanks in advance!

Vic.

EDIT* I am currently running at 2400MHz 43Deg Full Orthos Load Stable with the ram set to 2:3 Ratio 399Mhz I didnt want to super charge the chip 2.4GHz is fine for me but I just want to make sure that I have the best setup and that it's not going to go pop any time soon ;) 


Always go with 1:1 unless you're doing something very specific.
March 1, 2007 3:45:04 PM

I think ALOT of people are under the mistaken impression that the 4300's can simply and easily hit 3.0+ just because of the 9x multi and 800 RAM used. It's not that simple. They neglect to mention that you DO you need high volts to hit, and that it's nowhere near guaranteed.

The 4300 is a bargain overclocker. BARGAIN. There's a reason it's bargain, and not simply because people can "easily hit 3.2 ghz". If it were that easy, why are only a few people "easily" doing it? Uh-huh, I thought not.

The 4300 shouldn't be promoted as equivalent to the 6xxx for overclocking. It's not. It is a VERY attractive chip, but don't continue to make it out to be something it's not.

B-A-R-G-A-I-N.


And yes, go synchronous 1:1 ;) 
March 1, 2007 3:49:27 PM

Exactly.

The volts thing is what limits the OC on this chip. Hitting 3GHz with a good cooler is easy... most people don't even have to move away from stock vCore. However, to push past 3GHz, the voltage required is almost exponential in relation to the MHz gained... = dead chip in a couple years.

Wish I'd thought about that before I got one. Can't wait for the E6420 :p 
Gonna have to slowly start filtering off some funds so the missus doesn't find out! :D 
March 1, 2007 4:17:00 PM

Quote:
go for 400x8=3.2ghz and 1:1 with ram

Ok, I'm gonna soon get this chip with a DS3.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but, Running the memory 1:1 means the RAM will run as fast as the FSB, Right? Ok, so the RAM's stock speed would be 200MHz. (200x4=DDR2-800) So wouldn't setting the FSB to 400MHz at a ratio of 1:1 also clock the RAM at 400MHz!! 8O (400x4=DDR2-1600) Isn't that making the FSB run twice as fast as it's rated? Isn't that kinda dangerous? (In terms of damaging the RAM)

Again, please excuse my ignorance.
March 1, 2007 4:28:00 PM

Quote:

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but, Running the memory 1:1 means the RAM will run as fast as the FSB, Right? Ok, so the RAM's stock speed would be 200MHz. (200x4=DDR2-800) So wouldn't setting the FSB to 400MHz at a ratio of 1:1 also clock the RAM at 400MHz!! 8O (400x4=DDR2-1600) Isn't that making the FSB run twice as fast as it's rated? Isn't that kinda dangerous? (In terms of damaging the RAM)

Again, please excuse my ignorance.



Nope, nope. Your close, but no cigar.
The FSB for Intel Processors runs at 4x (quad pumped) while the FSB for Double Data Rate SDRAM runs at 2x (double pumped). Thus, the rating of 400*2= DDR 800.


Best of Luck
March 1, 2007 4:46:25 PM

Exactly. So with the DS3 for example, the BIOS setting for the RAM multiplier is 2.0........which actually makes it 1:1 because of the DDR-2. A bit confusing.........
March 1, 2007 6:24:29 PM

Quote:
Exactly. So with the DS3 for example, the BIOS setting for the RAM multiplier is 2.0........which actually makes it 1:1 because of the DDR-2. A bit confusing.........

Actually, the -2 in DDR-2 has nothing to do with it, ordinary old DDR works the same way, it's the D in DDR :) 

To the OP, you asked for a quick explanation, so here are the basic equations:

------------------------------
* note that "FSB speed" refers to the base FSB, not the "quad-pumped" speed
* available ratios/multipliers depend on your mobo

CPU speed = FSB speed * CPU multiplier

RAM speed = FSB speed * 2 (the Double in DDR) * RAM:FSB ratio (1:1, 5:4, 3:2, etc)
-- OR --
RAM speed = FSB speed * RAM multiplier (2, 2.5, 3, etc)
------------------------------

Example:

E4300: Base FSB is 200MHz, CPU multiplier is 9.

So the CPU speed at stock settings is 200MHz * 9 = 1.8GHz
and the RAM speed at (I think these are the multipliers available on my DS3):
1:1 ratio (2 multiplier) = 200MHz * 2 * 1:1 = 400MHz
5:4 ratio (2.5 multipler) = 200MHz * 2 * 5:4 = 500MHz
4:3 ratio (2.66 multipler) = 200MHz * 2 * 4:3 = 533MHz
3:2 ratio (3 multipler) = 200MHz * 2 * 3:2 = 600MHz
7:4 ratio (3.5 multipler) = 200MHz * 2 * 7:4 = 700MHz
2:1 ratio (4 multipler) = 200MHz * 2 * 2:1 = 800MHz
etc.

1:1 is almost always used for overclocking, because the multiplier on Core2 Duo is locked from going up, so the only way to acheive a higher clock speed is to raise the FSB. Most boards don't support a ratio lower than 1:1, so the RAM must be able to operate double the FSB speed. When you're hitting 400+ MHz FSB, that means 800+ MHz RAM, and faster RAM than this can get expensive very quickly.

Also of note, apparently setting 5:4 sometimes results in slightly lower performance than 1:1 in benchmarks. As far as I know, the higher ratios/multipliers have no such problem (the benchmarks I saw didn't include 4:3, though, only 1:1, 5:4, and 3:2). But, again, these are mostly only useful for non-overclockers.
March 7, 2007 12:20:26 AM

OK, thanks alot! Much clearer.

So, If I wanted to OC a e4300 to 3GHz, I would need to set the FSB to 334MHz. Using a multiplier of 1:1, the Ram would operate at DDR2- 668. So this means I could buy DDR2-667 and (very slightly) OC it?
March 7, 2007 12:50:27 AM

Correct.

And 668 isn't really overclocked....1 mhz ain't even worth mentioning ;) 

To hit 3.0ghz though, you'll just need to find the right vCORE for the CPU, and keep an eye on your temps.
March 7, 2007 1:17:07 AM

Thanks all for the info; This overclocking can get very confusing but I think i've got it i'm running stable at 2997GHz 333x9, i've underclocked the ram from DDR2 800 to DDR2 667 but tightened the timings so its now 4 4 4 12 (4Pass' on memtest86+ no errors :twisted: ) Now I can run this setup with these voltages; (G)MCH +1 (NB) FSB +1 DDR2 +1 vCore Normal.

Now here's where I have the problem sure its stable no errors in orthos/prime etc... but its very sluggish slowly starting etc... Now my question is what should I do to the voltages to improve the performance? I havent got the slightest idea of what voltages will increase performance I hope someone here does? :twisted:

The highest I've hit was 375x9 vCore 1.400 FSB +2 NB +2 DDR2@default so 5 5 5 12 2.1v it was stable but I got scared :oops:  and lowered the settings, tbh i seem to be able to get alot out of this chip on very low voltages beginners luck :twisted:
March 7, 2007 2:26:31 AM

Quote:
To hit 3.0ghz though, you'll just need to find the right vCORE for the CPU, and keep an eye on your temps.

Ah, I was afraid of this. I was hoping not to change the voltage becuase of the increased power consumption and heat. How far can I reasonably get on stock voltage? I have a TT Big Typhoon to cool it, with a Scythe S-Flex 800rpm fan attached.
March 7, 2007 2:32:41 AM

Hard to say. Go "higher"....like 1.4 and make sure it's stable in dual Orthos/Prime95 instances. Then back it down 2 notches, test again. If stable, down 2 notches....and so on until not stable. Then back up 1 or 2 notches, run Orthos/Prime95s for 24 hours stable and you're set :) 
March 7, 2007 2:52:28 AM

24hours 8O There must be a working around :twisted: I've actually sorted it out its running fantastically as I type I have orthos on 90% FL + Browsing + System Mechanic full diagnostic and the system is still very responsive.

Temps Tcase 16 - 19C Idle (varies) / 35 - 43C Load (Stays at 42 Mostly); Tjunction 26 - 28C Idle (varies)/ 35 - 42C Load(Stays at 41 Mostly).

I hope these temps are ok :twisted:
March 7, 2007 3:12:22 AM

Temps are fine. I'm paranoid so I run dual Prime95's for 24 hours. Most people just do it for 10 hours by letting it run overnight.

It's just a bit of a balancing act between your FSB, volts, and temps. Find the right combination and you're laughing. Then you really should run Orthos/Prime95 (dual instances though!) for 10 hours, just to be positive your system is stable. Otherwise you'll likely get weird things starting to happen....BSODs, random boots, blah, blah......fun stuff.

Sounds like you're OC is doing well, but to be sure I'd run the stress tests overnight for errors.
March 7, 2007 4:17:44 AM

Quote:
I think ALOT of people are under the mistaken impression that the 4300's can simply and easily hit 3.0+ just because of the 9x multi and 800 RAM used. It's not that simple. They neglect to mention that you DO you need high volts to hit, and that it's nowhere near guaranteed.

The 4300 is a bargain overclocker. BARGAIN. There's a reason it's bargain, and not simply because people can "easily hit 3.2 ghz". If it were that easy, why are only a few people "easily" doing it? Uh-huh, I thought not.

The 4300 shouldn't be promoted as equivalent to the 6xxx for overclocking. It's not. It is a VERY attractive chip, but don't continue to make it out to be something it's not.

B-A-R-G-A-I-N.


And yes, go synchronous 1:1 ;) 


it is that easy. Im hitting 3.2 GHz with 1.39v on the core. I could go a bit higher, but its a nice number and im running my DDr800 at around 890FSB .2v boost on the ram. P95 stable.
March 7, 2007 4:24:06 AM

Yea load temps were the same for the Torture tests TAT100% + Orthos for 10minutes they didnt budge and the comp was still responsive enough to reply to messages on here i think i'll take the vCore down a bit and retest while i sleep
!