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Worried about Pci-e2

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 2, 2007 1:57:38 AM

Hi all, first of I wanted to say great forums, I visit quite often and have gotten great information from them.

I am looking into doing a complete major upgrade sometime between spring to early summer, but the only thing thats got me worried is the coming of pcie2 in late winter 2007. I`m afraid I may get limited in my upgradability options. I already got shafted with getting an agp setup right before pcie1 came out and dont wanna go through that again, however late 2007 is a long wait.
What do you guys think, will pci-e2 make a big difference over pcie or will I still be good with pcie for a few years to come.
Someone told me that with the extra power and bandwidth you`ll get on pcie2, it will be easy to make videocards with onboard cpu, taking tremendous pressure off the cpu. so even a crappy cpu with a pcie2 videocard will dance circles around a top of the line cpu with only pcie. Ufortunatly I got this info from someone chitchating while on a mmorpg, so I really dont know validity of his claim.
Anyhow thankyou for all feedback.

More about : worried pci

March 2, 2007 3:09:34 AM

there wont be cpu+gpu for a long time, espeically powerful gpus. i think the reason behind the fusion thing was for mobile computing.

iuno bout pcie2 tho.. prolly just more bandwidth and such. and why would it matter? if say, you got top of the line just before pcie2 ... so waht? it may have problems, gfx may not even be much more powerfull ether. who needs 150fps+ when youve already got 100.
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2007 3:51:44 AM

Hey i'll take 150fps over 100fps any time, but not at the expense of a new card.
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March 2, 2007 4:14:16 AM

Quote:
there wont be cpu+gpu for a long time, espeically powerful gpus. i think the reason behind the fusion thing was for mobile computing.

iuno bout pcie2 tho.. prolly just more bandwidth and such. and why would it matter? if say, you got top of the line just before pcie2 ... so waht? it may have problems, gfx may not even be much more powerfull ether. who needs 150fps+ when youve already got 100.


Sure I'd be happy enough with 100 fps for today, but will I still be able to get that next year? Im scared of dropping 2grand plus on a nice setup a will have trouble upgrading next year. It might be just like agp, I'd be able to get pcie2 equvilant cards on pcie1, but they would be much slower much crapier, cost three times as much and I'd have to wait 9 months longer to get em. And also if I wait 3 more months it may add years of life to my computer.
Anyway I know I must be sounding like a paranoid freak, its probably not that biga deal, I just at a point in my life I wanna get the most outa my money.
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2007 4:21:44 AM

Perhaps pcie2 is backwards compatible with pcie1, if they use the same shape slot.
March 2, 2007 11:40:25 AM

From what I hear PCIe2 is backwards compatable with PCIe1. Your new PCIe2 gfx card will work fine in your current mobo.
March 2, 2007 12:57:49 PM

Quote:
From what I hear PCIe2 is backwards compatable with PCIe1. Your new PCIe2 gfx card will work fine in your current mobo.

It will be backwards compatible, but only in the sense that a pcie1 card will work in a pcie2 slot but a pcie2 wont work in pcie1, So that wont help.
March 2, 2007 4:04:09 PM

Quote:

It will be backwards compatible, but only in the sense that a pcie1 card will work in a pcie2 slot but a pcie2 wont work in pcie1, So that wont help.


Then that wouldn't be backwards compatible. That wouldn't even make sense, it would be the other way around.

The newer technology is supposed to work with the older one. PCI-e can't work on PCI-e2 since it wasn't created back then, they couldn't have built it to work with something that didn't exist yet.
March 2, 2007 4:46:45 PM

pci2 wont help at all.
March 2, 2007 4:56:07 PM

Quote:
From what I hear PCIe2 is backwards compatable with PCIe1. Your new PCIe2 gfx card will work fine in your current mobo.

It will be backwards compatible, but only in the sense that a pcie1 card will work in a pcie2 slot but a pcie2 wont work in pcie1, So that wont help.

Its really not all that much to worry about. Even when PCIe2 is finally made, it will take a while before the first cards will take advantage of it. Besides that, just as many AGP cards still keep up with PCIe-1 now, PCIe-1 will keep up with PCIe-2 for a long time. You'd probably upgrade your mobo and video card anyway long before a PCIe-1 card became too slow and obsolete.
March 2, 2007 5:05:15 PM

ur a moron if u say 100fps is enough, pcie2 will really be taken advantage of later on, even now agp is in its last stretch, but theres prob gona be a dx10 card or 2 that come out for it
March 2, 2007 5:10:17 PM

Quote:
ur a moron if u say 100fps is enough


I didn't say anything about that. Other people were talking about the 100-150 fps.
March 2, 2007 5:28:08 PM

Quote:
ur a moron if u say 100fps is enough


:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Actually, 30 is pretty much enough...
March 2, 2007 5:39:01 PM

Quote:

Then that wouldn't be backwards compatible. That wouldn't even make sense, it would be the other way around.


The PCIe-2 SLOT is backwards compatible, and will be able to use PCIe-1 cards.

I don't believe PCIe-2 CARDS are backwards compatible though... but I'm not 100% sure.
March 2, 2007 5:46:58 PM

So basically, the way everyone seems to be thinking abut this is like having AGP 2x/4x/8x. Where PCIe-1 is like AGP2x/4x and PCIe-2 is like AGP 8x you can use the old cards in the new faster slot, but it wont be max bandwidth (if that even makes a difference) and the faster card won't want to go in the old, slower slot.. or something. The real question is, what kind of chipsets are going to ship with PCIe-2, because who knows what will be compatible with what.
March 2, 2007 6:12:00 PM

As far as what chipsets will be shipping with pcie2 I believe for intel it will be the new beerlake chipset and amd it will be the am3.
And to sailor, your probably right, pcie should still be good for awhile to come, it all depends on how intensive dx10 games will be.
From what I know(and I know very little) I dont think its the bandwidth thats limiting pcie but rather the power limitations. Pcie2 will allow for alot more power to the gpu. Correct me if im wrong but doesnt the 8800gtx use the max power allowed for the current pcie. If it is the how much more can we expect for future gpu's to improve on the pcie from the 8800gtx?
March 2, 2007 6:19:13 PM

sailer i want replying directly to u, anyways i mean fps is nvr gona be aroudn one number at all times, so u want a higher fps so ur pretty much assured that u wont dip anywhere near 30fps. if ur running games with and average of 150, more likely then not, its staying way above 30fps
March 2, 2007 6:43:45 PM

Ok. In my way of thinking, I think more about minimum framerates than average or maximum frame rates. I like minimum rates of about 40 fps, for what its worth.
March 2, 2007 7:09:48 PM

Pci-e 2.0 is backwards and forwards compatible with pci-e 1.

By that I mean you can take a pci-e 1 card and use it in a pci-e 2.0 slot and it will run fine. You can also run a pci-e 2.0 card in a pci-e 1.0 slot but it will only run at pci-e 1 speeds. None of this really matters at the moment since even todays cards dont max out a pci-e 1 slot, but a year or 2 from now who knows....



Either way, i don't know where you got your late 2007 info from. There are already working boards with pci-e 2.0 showing up, and they will be in full release sometime during the 2nd quarter. Intel bearlake p35 boards will support pci-e 2.o and will be available by the time you do your upgrade. Depending on when you do your upgrade you may even have the option of getting an x38 based chipset board with pci-e 2.0. those boards are supposed to be out sometime in q3.

I'm sure there will be other boards coming soon from nvidia and others with it also.
March 2, 2007 7:38:35 PM

Quote:
Pci-e 2.0 is backwards and forwards compatible with pci-e 1.

By that I mean you can take a pci-e 1 card and use it in a pci-e 2.0 slot and it will run fine. You can also run a pci-e 2.0 card in a pci-e 1.0 slot but it will only run at pci-e 1 speeds. None of this really matters at the moment since even todays cards dont max out a pci-e 1 slot, but a year or 2 from now who knows....



Either way, i don't know where you got your late 2007 info from. There are already working boards with pci-e 2.0 showing up, and they will be in full release sometime during the 2nd quarter. Intel bearlake p35 boards will support pci-e 2.o and will be available by the time you do your upgrade. Depending on when you do your upgrade you may even have the option of getting an x38 based chipset board with pci-e 2.0. those boards are supposed to be out sometime in q3.

I'm sure there will be other boards coming soon from nvidia and others with it also.


Thats fantastic, the beerlake chipset would be worth the wait at this point, I think it;ll give me alot of upgrade options in the future.
I honestly thought beerlake would be out in late 2007 probably because I saw that of the p38, I didnt know about the p35.
I think if it comes out in spring that will be a great time for upgrading, the r600 should finally be out, and the intel price cuts will be in effect, I better start saving my money :lol: 
March 2, 2007 7:52:47 PM

Simply put.

It's not possible to ever buy a PC and not be behind the technology curve in 6months.

I fully expect the AMD Desktop Chips shipping by the end of the year to put my new Core2Duo to shame. And don't forget the 45nm Intel chips coming soon thereafter to put the coming AMDs to shame.

I am also sure that the GPUs that are out now will also be shameful by the end of the year.

The memory for your PC bought now will also be old quite soon as DDR3 becomes the desktop standard.


Go buy a PC and enjoy it.
A good PC built today will still be a good PC for years to come.

It may not be bragworthy in a year, but it will get 'er done.
March 2, 2007 8:20:24 PM

some people, like myself, got spoiled i think. i bought a p4 3ghz with HT and a 9600 pro gpu back in 2002 i think and it lasted with a simple upgrade to 1 gig of ram and the gpu up to a x800xl and a 7800gs perfectly well. i would still be using it today, except it got fried in a power outage.

with the rig i just bought though, i dont see it lasting as well for as long as my other one. technology is changing waaaay too fast now. its possible that it will last well if the software only catches on slowly, but i fear that the software will probably just jump over what i have. right now ive got overkill, but in a year i fear ill have a heap.
March 3, 2007 4:12:01 AM

Nuts :cry:  :cry:  I just came across this site http://www.techorama.org/entry/intel-to-release-bearlak...
heres a quote
Intel has planned to release two ‘Bearlake’ chips named P35 Express and G33 Express Core Logic initially.

"The P35 Express will support Intel’s Quad-Core Core 2 Extreme and Core 2 Quad processors and the G33 chipset will not support these high-end processors.

Sources have confirmed that the first Bearlake chipsets will support 1333MHz front-side bus speeds as well as a new ICH9 south bridge. The support for PCI Express 2.0 and DDR3 memory will be there in the upcoming versions."

So if I guess pcie2 wont be out till later
March 3, 2007 5:26:25 AM

Quote:
Hi all, first of I wanted to say great forums, I visit quite often and have gotten great information from them.

I am looking into doing a complete major upgrade sometime between spring to early summer, but the only thing thats got me worried is the coming of pcie2 in late winter 2007. I`m afraid I may get limited in my upgradability options. I already got shafted with getting an agp setup right before pcie1 came out and dont wanna go through that again, however late 2007 is a long wait.
What do you guys think, will pci-e2 make a big difference over pcie or will I still be good with pcie for a few years to come.
Someone told me that with the extra power and bandwidth you`ll get on pcie2, it will be easy to make videocards with onboard cpu, taking tremendous pressure off the cpu. so even a crappy cpu with a pcie2 videocard will dance circles around a top of the line cpu with only pcie. Ufortunatly I got this info from someone chitchating while on a mmorpg, so I really dont know validity of his claim.
Anyhow thankyou for all feedback.


There is NO worry about PCI-e2. It's backwards/forwards compatible. Also the bearlake chipset is socket 775. Not known if PENRYN CPUs will run on the p965, but most good current motherboards (p965, i680, etc) will run at a 1333 fsb.
The next major release is the NEHALEM & Socket B incorporating the integrated memory controller and CSI
. That won't be until late 2008 at the earliest
March 3, 2007 4:26:53 PM

Thks guys...I tend to over think things.
March 4, 2007 5:40:25 AM

Quote:
Don't worry so much... Total backwards compatability, albeit at the slower speeds...

http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs/pcie2.0_faq/


That was what I was trying to say :)  Any PCIe2 device (that is card or motherboard) must be able to run at PCIe1 spec, there is complete backwards compatability!!!!
March 4, 2007 8:15:50 AM

already the next chip-set is being made and most likely being tested now. they have to make their money from the ddr3 and quads than just when the market show signs of slowing down, we start saying this all over again.
I can see ddr3 being 268pins, and ddr4 being 300 pins. Hell just bring the ddr4 and forget the ddr3.

Laser computers will be next, dx 14c, windows sucka that offers you to buy a video card with split eye pixels shades with 30 billion pipes. We will be robots than or dead of hunger
March 4, 2007 8:57:03 AM

PCIe 2.0 will be fully compatible with PCIe 1.0.

All that is changing is the data rate, just like AGP evolved to AGP x2 x4 and x8.

This will give double the bandwidth, but that gives no performance advantage to gfx cards really. It also leaves the latencies the same in terms of cycles, meaning half as much in terms of real time.

This latency improvement is the main reason for it, and will hopefully mean we finally see PCIe sound cards etc.

An 8800GTX running on PCIe 1.0 would be within 5% of the speed of one running on PCIe 2.0, if such a thing existed.

A 9800GTX PCIe 2.0 would loose less than 5% running in a PCIe 1.0 board.

In short? Dont worry about it.



We already have "linkboost" that increases the PCIe clock by 25%, this offers NO advantage. PCIe 2.0 is just increasing the PCIe clock 100%.
!