Just a few simple observations.
Why should AMD lie about their claims for Barcelona? Credibility is actually worth money for a business. It a business loses some cred, it loses customers also.
Well, lets see:
-Because K10, AMDs only hope to outperform Intel in the near future, is going to be 4 quarters behind in C2D in market introduction.
-Because K10 is going to be released 2 quarters beyond the 'grace' period C2D needed to prove it wasnt another piece of crap like netburst was, thus setting up Intel to start taking back market share from AMD.
-To forestall the above mentioned market shifts to Intel until AMD can get K10 to market.
In quantity.
-Because AMDs margins are so thin right now they must maintain volume sales to compensate.
-Because AMD doesnt have a lead in anything to help them hold on to those shares they so desperately need.
-Because Hector Ruiz doesnt want to lose his job
-Because AMD doesnt want to see its stock prices fall any lower
Shall I go on? There are lots of good reasons for AMD to lie about K10. Does that mean AMD is lying? No. But dont say they have no reason, because they do in fact have several.
You know, you are absolutely right about credibility. Credibility is worth something for a company. So riddle me this, if credibility is so important, why did AMD put out 'quad core for dummies' mocking Intel for its 'glued' die quad core, then release a 'glued' mobo quadcore which did not live up to the hype AMD generated for it? Why was AMD digging up obscure/meaningless metrics for K8 PR after the release of C2D? Why was AMD keeping its mouth shut tighter than a frogs behind when they couldnt supply either the channel or the OEMs last year? Where, exactly, is the credibility in that? And what about the credibility here? Why was the horde itself trying to build expectations for AM2 and 65nm beyond what AMD ever claimed? Did AMD ask them to? No. Did they help AMD? No. Its funny that your talking of credibility because the Horde has made crap up as they went along the past 7 months trying desperately to validate AMD in anyway they could, yet even the most hardcore Inteliot freely admits Netburst was crap. I bring this up because I can help but wonder how the Fanboys credibilty reflects on, or is a reflection of the credibility of their chosen company.
What could AMD gain by putting barcelona up for extensive benchmarking early? Best I can imagine, nothing that really matters for AMD.
Its very funny that in one sentence you make a statement about the importance of credibility, yet in the next sentence, you are saying there in no gain to be had from early testing.
Test results
validate performance claims.
Validated claims =
Facts
Facts = Credibility
So, which is it hal, they need to be credible, or they dont need to be credible?
Through testing, K10 could gain the credibility you were just talking about. If it is as good as AMD claims, then why not test it? They could forstall market shifts to Intel with validated claims, but without the validation that testing provides, those claims are nothing more than supposition. When it comes to sales, a bird in hand is worth more that 2 in a bush. Without testing, K10 is 2 birds in a bush. Right now, C2D is in hand.
They could on the other hand lose a little -- giving Intel too much info ahead of time is not in AMD's interest, IMO.
Yes they could, but guess what: Its already too late for that.
1) There is finally enough info out to negate any advantage secrecy could have brought them.
2) Intel has far more R&D funding, and, contrary to what Hector and the 'boyz' at AMD are claiming, I highly doubt Intel is "behind" AMD. Yes AMD got to 64B first. But Intel beat them to 65nm and will beat them to 45 nm. And by the time AMD is just (maybe) releasing its first k10 45nm products, Intel will have a new Uarch for its 45nm node.
Further, as far as Uarch 'secrets' go, I suggest you go read the Anand K10 article very closely....you may be suprised at what you find.
After seeing Intel's amazing powerful marketing convince many average people that P4s were better than A64s, you just gotta respect that dangerous illusionist machine, and take caution.
Which has exactly what to do with the point of your post? Do you beleive this is a revelation? Its not. Do you think there is anyone out there who cares about CPUs that hasnt already known this for 3 years? What are we supposed to be taking caution against? The "dangerous" Intel? Just what exactly
is your point? That the "morally virtuous" AMD is above that sort of nonsence? If you believe that, you had better go check out the PR/marketing shenanigans AMD has been up to since C2D was released.
AMD doesn't need to convince skeptics of anything. It's enough to say to interested OEMs, and tech savvy customers: yes, we have good chips coming. That's all AMD needs.
Well, in that case I guess you should run out and buy yourself a fleet of fords/gms/chryslers/Sony PS3's/retail box Vista Ultimate/Netburst's, TV Wonder Knives, George Foreman Grills, body wash, etc etc etc, because all the companies that made those said "yes, our product is good".
Nothing is good until it has been
proven good. By your rationale, Netburst should have been great because it looked great on paper, and Intel said it was great. Too bad for Intel the reality was that Netburst was crap. Interestingly, according to the first actual indepth look that has been provided for K10, it looks great on paper too. Better hope it doesnt turn out to be AMDs Netburst.
They don't need to convince skeptics here in the forumz of anything.
You have no idea just how wrong you are. That is exactly what AMD needs to do. In case you didnt keep up with the times, THG, Anand, HotHW, HWzone etc etc etc and their respective forums have sold more AMD products than AMDs marketing/PR division has. Hell, the people who frequent this board right now, Vern, Tanker, Ches, Clue, Exit, myself just to name a few, have probably sold more AMD DTCPUs over the past 4 years than AMD marketing has. Its called 'word of mouth'. It comes from providing a better product to people who know enough to actually know that it is (or rather was) better. And those people providing advice or products to people who dont know better. If you build a better mouse trap, the world will beat a path to your door. They did for K8. Now they are doing it for C2D. If the mousetrap that is K10 proves to be better, people will buy it. If not, people wont buy it and AMD doesnt have the money to pull the marketing coo Intel did with Crapburst. And guess what else...if K10 doesnt perform, the only review site/forum selling it will be AMDzone.
AMD, or the horde, or the horde accolytes, or the horde wannabe's saying Barcelona is "a beast" or will outperform C2D, or RoXoRz doesnt mean jackshit. You dont win a race by showing up to the track and saying..."well, when I get my car done its gonna do the quarter in 11.12"...You actually have to bring the car to the track and run it. Right now, K10 isnt winning any races. Its not even in qaulifying yet. It doesnt even have tires.
AMD does need to send out ES's and they do need to be tested if AMD wants people to hold off from buying Intels until K10 arrives. They need to have their producted tested so their sales force (
us, not the morons at circuit city, CompUSA, Office Depot etc) know what it does. They also need to have their product tested to prove to the stock holders that yes, they actually do have a competative product. In fact, there is only 1 reason AMD should
not be publically testing: K10 ES's arent performing up to spec/expectations.
They just need to execute well, and make decent chips (or better!), and provide dell and hp and lenovo what it takes to keep the assembly lines humming. That's all. And in the process, all of us here benefit (except possibly Intel employees).
Well theres a revelation :roll:
Hal,
You are in the wrong forum. This forum is about CPUs. Not commercial morality. The majority of people here want facts.. not hearsay. The forum is about performance, not unicorn wishes. Value, not manufacturer loyalty.
If it was any of those things, it would be called the AMD CPU forum, or the Intel CPU forum, or the Manufacturing Morality forum.
You keep trying to promote AMD and denegrate Intel, and you keep getting more and more subtle about it, but no matter how subtle its wording, the bias of a biased message cant be masked. Heres a thought..why not give your fingers a rest and let AMD promote itself through its products and performance. Right now K10 is not a product. Its a bunch of articles at Anandtech and other sites, and thats all it is until it hits the shelves. When it gets here, it gets here, not before. If you cant do that, then you should probably be hanging out at AMDzone.
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