Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (
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"STEFFAN HEDD ALUN" <sha3@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1096452715.599289@leri.aber.ac.uk...
> I stopped listening after "serebii".
I noticed "office politics" seems to play a larger than usual role in regards
to the various Pokesites. :-/ It's too bad, really. Regardless of whether a
group of people believe a particular website has any credibility or not is
not an issue since the info is from the forums, not from the moderators. Any
Pokesite forum has as much credibility as any other Pokesite forum, including
a.g.n.p, as long as the moderators aren't trying to squelch or reshape posts
on this matter. Like I said in my previous message, not everyone agrees
about the interpretation of the dialogue in the episode - there is plenty of
debate. But it would explain a lot as to why we get to see just about all of
Ash's other discarded Pokemon but not Butterfree, and I think that makes for
a compelling argument. The final determining factor, however, would be to
listen to the episode as it aired in Japan and figure out what the exact
dialogue was.
> that whole thing is undermined if it's a metaphor for terminal illness.
I don't think terminal illness is the correct term here at all. The
situation isn't that Butterfree is unconditionally dying. If Ash doesn't
release Butterfree he would live, but Butterfree would have serious regrets
about a lost love. IN FACT, if anything, Ash knowing Butterfree is likely to
die because of his choice strengthens the point of the episode - Ash respects
his Pokemon and he will give up some of his happiness in order to let
Butterfree live his life the way he wants to, even though Ash may think its
foolish.
> The reason Butterfree never returned is because not enough kids care - the
> same reason Pigeot hasn't been seen since leaving, amongst several others.
I disagree with you here. First of all, when I'm referring to Ash's Pokemon,
I don't count the "loaner Pokemon" like Larvitar and Lapras. Second, I think
you're thinking in terms of the game as far as the popularity of Butterfree.
Butterfree may be weak in the game, but he was a fairly interesting character
in the anime. I totally disagree with you when you say he isn't popular with
kids, or at least with young kids. Guess who is on my niece's list of
favorite Pokemon? Pikachu, Mew, Mewtwo, Treecko, Charizard, Butterfree,
Beautifly, and Starmie. No big surprises there considering her age. I don't
think it's the case that we don't see the Pokemon that aren't popular. Heck,
we've seen Kingler (KINGLER?!) return more often than Butterfree, and somehow
I don't think anime Kingler is more popular with kids than anime Butterfree.
The only other Pokemon from the first and second season that I can think of
other than Butterfree and Pidgeot (though I swear I remember seeing Pidgeot
return for an episode) that haven't been seen again is Primeape. Everyone
else has either showed up for cameos at Oak's lab or has had a special
episode (or movie appearance) since they left Ash's group way back when.
Bayleaf, Cyndaquil, etc. don't count because although it has been a year
since Ash met May in our time, it's probably been like what, only a couple of
months in series time since Ash left for Hoenn?
> Think about what you're saying. Sure, the show's acknowledged death,
Has it? One of my gripes about the show has been how they always skirt the
issue. If it's true that Butterfree died then that changes my opinion on
that matter completely. (Although I will say my opinion is largely changed
already due to Latios' fate in "Pokemon Heroes".)
> it's a bit of a stretch to assume that they don't mind killing off
> """beloved""" Pokémon just to make room for a Mankey later on.
Except that was back at the start of the series, when it was OK to have
rangers pointing guns at kids and hitting on Misty, and James in drag. Now
the series has gotten a lot more conservative since it has such a worldwide
appeal now. I agree with you to a point: If Butterfree were still with Ash
today they would never write an episode that would kill him off. But back
then, it's plausible.
> Don't believe everything you read.
I don't. I think the bigger lesson to learn is don't trust the dub version
for facts. If they can hack Mewtwo's origin or rewrite the Legend of
Altomare then they could change anything in the dub, and it would only take a
few changed words to change the meaning of something. Heck, I still have
serious doubts about whether the original point of this thread, who was Ash
referring to when he says he misses someone in "Jirachi" is an accurate
translation from the original dialogue. If it's a girl then this week's
episode would point that toward Latias, but if it's a boy then it has to be
Latios or Butterfree. After learning the possible fate of Butterfree, now
I'm really giving serious consideration to the possibility that the dub is
wrong and the change was made to make us think Misty x Ash together is real,
even though it isn't, and that he is indeed referring to Butterfree.
----
David Pochron dpoch@ticon.net
Unless there's going to 
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