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HDTV as a Monitor?

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Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 29, 2004 4:32:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Does anybody here use an HDTV as a computer monitor?

Are you happy with the setup? I'm having a heck of a time getting mine
set up, and I'm starting to suspect that no matter what, it is not going
to give me legible text at anything other than ultra-low resolution.

Any suggestions are welcome.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

More about : hdtv monitor

Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 29, 2004 6:34:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In article <cgr86e$ls1$2@reader1.panix.com>,
EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com writes:
> Does anybody here use an HDTV as a computer monitor?
>
> Are you happy with the setup? I'm having a heck of a time getting mine
> set up, and I'm starting to suspect that no matter what, it is not going
> to give me legible text at anything other than ultra-low resolution.
>
> Any suggestions are welcome.
>
Not answering your question, but giving some input: I'd strongly
suggest that you'd be better served by using a computer monitor
as an HDTV (however small it might be) rather than using an HDTV
as a computer monitor. Your results of having a less sharp and
viewable computer image than one would hope is what I'd expect.
(Using the computer monitor can be problematical in its own right,
but some computer monitors are likely adjustable to being tolerable
HDTVs for very small display areas.)

Think of this: the RCA 38" CRT TV would optimistically provide
1400H pixels X 600-700V pixels of true detail, and is only capable
of showing interlace at resolutions that high. For non-interlaced
display, the best that you should expect (except for the very high
end) would be 1280H x 720V, and the actual image would be rolled
off well before those pixel limits. A computer monitor that displays
only 1280H x 720V with some intentional 'smear' wouldn't be deemed
to be very good.

An HDTV is generally going to have significantly more spatial
response 'rolloff' than a computer monitor.

John
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 29, 2004 7:41:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, John S. Dyson <toor@iquest.net> wrote:

> Not answering your question, but giving some input:

Thanks. Actually, you're answering my question very well. My real
question was "Is there any way to get this damn HDTV to give me a good
picture when used as a monitor?"

And from everything I've seen, the answer is No.

Bummer.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 29, 2004 1:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

check out the Home Theater PC forum at http://www.avsforum.com


Doug


<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:cgrj91$ob8$2@reader1.panix.com...
> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, John S. Dyson <toor@iquest.net> wrote:
>
> > Not answering your question, but giving some input:
>
> Thanks. Actually, you're answering my question very well. My real
> question was "Is there any way to get this damn HDTV to give me a good
> picture when used as a monitor?"
>
> And from everything I've seen, the answer is No.
>
> Bummer.
August 30, 2004 9:34:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I think you can find a workable solution. There will be drawbacks, but there
are utilities that allow you to correct sharpness (my ATI seems to work
acceptable)
TVTools and other utilities give you a little more control...... For Games
and Media it works great..... but why would you want to do text much less
care about text? You can turn on smoothing and select better (or larger)
fonts for the TV where you can read it from across the room

<EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
news:cgr86e$ls1$2@reader1.panix.com...
> Does anybody here use an HDTV as a computer monitor?
>
> Are you happy with the setup? I'm having a heck of a time getting mine
> set up, and I'm starting to suspect that no matter what, it is not going
> to give me legible text at anything other than ultra-low resolution.
>
> Any suggestions are welcome.
>
> --
> ...I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...
>
> - The Who
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 31, 2004 6:08:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, 130.81.64.196 <moo@moo.com> wrote:
> I think you can find a workable solution. There will be drawbacks, but there
> are utilities that allow you to correct sharpness (my ATI seems to work
> acceptable)

What resolution/seze desktop are you running?

> TVTools and other utilities give you a little more control...... For Games
> and Media it works great.....


I'll try it.



but why would you want to do text much less
> care about text?

Because just about every applicaton uses text, and until you have
memorized the buttons and icons, the text is neessary.

You can turn on smoothing and select better (or larger)
> fonts for the TV where you can read it from across the room

I'll try it.



> <EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> news:cgr86e$ls1$2@reader1.panix.com...
> > Does anybody here use an HDTV as a computer monitor?
> >
> > Are you happy with the setup? I'm having a heck of a time getting mine
> > set up, and I'm starting to suspect that no matter what, it is not going
> > to give me legible text at anything other than ultra-low resolution.
> >
> > Any suggestions are welcome.
> >
> > --
> > ...I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...
> >
> > - The Who



--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 31, 2004 2:36:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in message news:<cgr86e$ls1$2@reader1.panix.com>...
> Does anybody here use an HDTV as a computer monitor?

Yes.

> Are you happy with the setup? I'm having a heck of a time getting mine
> set up, and I'm starting to suspect that no matter what, it is not going
> to give me legible text at anything other than ultra-low resolution.

What sort of TV are you using? If you're using a CRT based
set (direct view or projection), then probably you're limited
to 1080i. This can be tricky to set up depending on your
video card and your operating system. The resulting interlaced
display may be perhaps 1920x1080 in resolution, but will probably
be somewhat blurry and definitely be very flickery. This sort
of display is incredible for viewing pictures, but it's not so
good for text and general computing.

However, if you're using a non-CRT base set, like a DLP or LCD,
then you can get 1280x720 non-interlaced resolution. Again,
setting this up may be tricky depending on your video card and
your operating system, but it is MUCH easier than setting up
an interlaced display. This type of display is excellent for
a computer monitor, capable of both beautiful pictures and
excellent text for general computing.

Of course, I'm assuming you actually have an HDTV. Maybe you
have a low resolution plasma display. In that case, it's
more or less hopeless. The display itself is low resolution
in that case; there's no helping it.

Isaac Kuo
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 31, 2004 3:47:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, 130.81.64.196 <moo@moo.com> wrote:
> > I think you can find a workable solution. There will be drawbacks, but there
> > are utilities that allow you to correct sharpness (my ATI seems to work
> > acceptable)

> What resolution/seze desktop are you running?

> > TVTools and other utilities give you a little more control...... For Games
> > and Media it works great.....


> I'll try it.


Hey - I Googled on TVTools, but came up with nothing except some
foreign-language websites and a Microsoft Developers kit.

Got any leads for me?

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
September 2, 2004 2:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, Isaac Kuo <mechdan@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What sort of TV are you using? If you're using a CRT based
> set (direct view or projection),

Yep. Panasonic 36" 4x3.


then probably you're limited
> to 1080i. This can be tricky to set up depending on your
> video card and your operating system. The resulting interlaced
> display may be perhaps 1920x1080 in resolution, but will probably
> be somewhat blurry and definitely be very flickery. This sort
> of display is incredible for viewing pictures, but it's not so
> good for text and general computing.

Yep.


> However, if you're using a non-CRT base set, like a DLP or LCD,
> then you can get 1280x720 non-interlaced resolution. Again,
> setting this up may be tricky depending on your video card and
> your operating system, but it is MUCH easier than setting up
> an interlaced display. This type of display is excellent for
> a computer monitor, capable of both beautiful pictures and
> excellent text for general computing.

Hmmm...Thanks. Maybe a new 16x9 Samsung is in my future :) 


> Of course, I'm assuming you actually have an HDTV. Maybe you
> have a low resolution plasma display. In that case, it's
> more or less hopeless. The display itself is low resolution
> in that case; there's no helping it.

Nope. It's a Panasonic HD(ready)TV.

When I bought it, I wasn't familiar enough with what I wanted/needed.
The Panasonic was on sale at a good price, and is a good set, for what it
is. For the same price, I could have gotten a 32 inch 16x9, but the 36"
picture is bigger than that, even with letterboxing. and when watching
regular TV, the 36 inch picture is MUCH bigger. A 34 inch
widescreen is about the same width and height as a 36 inch with
letterboxing, but much more expensive. So I ended up with what I've got.


--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
September 2, 2004 11:21:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in message news:<ch5hf1$3s9$4@reader1.panix.com>...
>In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, Isaac Kuo <mechdan@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>What sort of TV are you using? If you're using a CRT based
>>set (direct view or projection),

>Yep. Panasonic 36" 4x3.

Your model might have limited modes for 1080i. My CRT based
Mitsubishi 4:3 set has a couple modes for displaying 1080i
over the full 4:3 of the screen. I use one of these modes
for a nice 1280x960 computer display.

However, if you use Powerstrip, you may be able to "fool"
your set into displaying full 4:3 960i using 480p timings.
Note that while Ati Radeons have excellent interlaced
display capabilities, this will only work with the VGA
output (RGBHV), and NOT with the Ati Component dongle.
The Ati Component output dongle somehow limits the
available modes in the hardware.

Your TV may or may not have any RGB input, and even if it
has RGB input capability, the set might have some bizarre
restrictions on the available resolutions with RGB input.

>>However, if you're using a non-CRT base set, like a DLP or LCD,
>>then you can get 1280x720 non-interlaced resolution. Again,
>>setting this up may be tricky depending on your video card and
>>your operating system, but it is MUCH easier than setting up
>>an interlaced display. This type of display is excellent for
>>a computer monitor, capable of both beautiful pictures and
>>excellent text for general computing.

>Hmmm...Thanks. Maybe a new 16x9 Samsung is in my future :) 

Personally, my next display is going to be a front projector.
For some reason, front projectors don't get as much attention
as rear projection sets despite offering a much larger image
at a potentially much lower price.

Isaac Kuo
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
September 4, 2004 6:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, Isaac Kuo <mechdan@yahoo.com> wrote:
> EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in message news:<ch5hf1$3s9$4@reader1.panix.com>...
> >In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, Isaac Kuo <mechdan@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >>What sort of TV are you using? If you're using a CRT based
> >>set (direct view or projection),

> >Yep. Panasonic 36" 4x3.

> Your model might have limited modes for 1080i. My CRT based
> Mitsubishi 4:3 set has a couple modes for displaying 1080i
> over the full 4:3 of the screen. I use one of these modes
> for a nice 1280x960 computer display.

Wow. I had no idea. Where in the setup menus might such a mode be
located? I have an aspect ratio setting in the menus, but I'm not sure
if that is what would do it.


> However, if you use Powerstrip, you may be able to "fool"
> your set into displaying full 4:3 960i using 480p timings.
> Note that while Ati Radeons have excellent interlaced
> display capabilities, this will only work with the VGA
> output (RGBHV), and NOT with the Ati Component dongle.
> The Ati Component output dongle somehow limits the
> available modes in the hardware.

I'm using the VGA-to-component adaptor. Is that what you mean by the
component dongle?

> Your TV may or may not have any RGB input, and even if it
> has RGB input capability, the set might have some bizarre
> restrictions on the available resolutions with RGB input.

By RGB input, do you mean component? It has S-Vidos, composite and
Component inputs.

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
September 7, 2004 11:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in message news:<chcira$bel$3@reader1.panix.com>...
>In alt.tv.tech.hdtv, Isaac Kuo <mechdan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in message news:<ch5hf1$3s9$4@reader1.panix.com>...

> > >Yep. Panasonic 36" 4x3.

>>Your model might have limited modes for 1080i. My CRT based
>>Mitsubishi 4:3 set has a couple modes for displaying 1080i
>>over the full 4:3 of the screen. I use one of these modes
>>for a nice 1280x960 computer display.

>Wow. I had no idea. Where in the setup menus might such
>a mode be located?

In the case of a Mitsubishi set, it's not a menu but rather
just one of the buttons on the remote control--the aspect
ratio mode button. When my 4:3 model is receiving a 1080i
signal, this button cycles among:

1. "Standard" -- the display is full screen, stretched to
fit. Ironically, there isn't anything "standard" about
this mode. With normal HDTV source, this mode is
stretched vertically so everything looks too tall.

2. "Letterbox" -- the display is letterboxed, with a widescreen
display and grey bars above and below. This mode is
suitable for normal HDTV source.

3. "Expand" -- the display is full screen, with the left
and right chopped off. This mode is also suitable for
normal HDTV source, but it doesn't show the full image.

I use "Standard" mode for my computer display since it does
the least processing on the input signal. The stretching
is okay because I can customize any sort of display on the
computer. Fortunately, Mitsubishi models remember different
modes for each input. When I switch to the computer, it
automatically remembers it should go to "Standard" mode.
When I switch to the HDTV box, it automatically remembers
it should go to "Letterbox" mode.

>I have an aspect ratio setting in the menus, but I'm not sure
>if that is what would do it.

The aspect ratio setting is what you need, but your particular
model might not offer any suitable setting when receiving
1080i input. Many models only offer aspect ratio options
when receiving 480p input. This is because DVDs come in
both 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios. There's no way for the
TV to automatically detect which aspect ratio is appropriate
so it must be manually set.

In contrast, 1080i is standardized at a 16:9 aspect ratio.
There's no need for an aspect ratio option because there's
only one correct aspect ratio with standardized signals.

>>However, if you use Powerstrip, you may be able to "fool"
>>your set into displaying full 4:3 960i using 480p timings.
>>Note that while Ati Radeons have excellent interlaced
>>display capabilities, this will only work with the VGA
>>output (RGBHV), and NOT with the Ati Component dongle.
>>The Ati Component output dongle somehow limits the
>>available modes in the hardware.

>I'm using the VGA-to-component adaptor. Is that what you
>mean by the component dongle?

Yes. Basically, you don't have many options for customizing
your display mode with the component dongle. Assuming your
TV does not have RGBHV input capability, then the only way
for you to get more customized display modes is to get a
VGA->Component transcoder. A transcoder has some electronics
to convert RGB into YPrPb, so they're a little expensive.
IMHO, it's probably not worth the effort.

>>Your TV may or may not have any RGB input, and even if it
>>has RGB input capability, the set might have some bizarre
>>restrictions on the available resolutions with RGB input.

>By RGB input, do you mean component? It has S-Vidos, composite and
>Component inputs.

No, component is not RGB, even though the colors of the
connectors are typically red, green, and blue (an unhappy
choice, since "red" is already typically used for the
right audio). The three signals in component are luminance,
red chroma, and blue chroma; the horizontal and vertical
sync signals are carried on the luminance line. These
components carry essentially the same information as RGB,
but in a different way that's more suitable for long
cables.

A 15-pin VGA connector uses RGBHV. There are separate
signal lines for Red, Green, Blue, H-sync, and V-sync.
Having all these separate lines had made VGA monitor
electronics simpler, but it's not very suitable for
long cable lengths.

Isaac Kuo
!