Breeding with Ditto

Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

I remember back in the GSC days a theory/rumor that breeding with Ditto
produced offspring with lower than normal IVs. I think it was either
because Ditto itself had low IVs, or because it just wasn't as effective
as using two pokemon of the same egg group. Was this ever true, and is
it true now?
12 answers Last reply
More about breeding ditto
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message
    news:wtWdnS0oS4vvWvfcRVn-hw@rcn.net...
    >I remember back in the GSC days a theory/rumor that breeding with Ditto
    >produced offspring with lower than normal IVs. I think it was either
    >because Ditto itself had low IVs, or because it just wasn't as effective as
    >using two pokemon of the same egg group. Was this ever true, and is it true
    >now?

    It was never true, although the way IVs were passed down was a bit different
    since Ditto could breed with males, females AND the bicurious. Erm,
    neuter-genders. This doesn't necessarily make IVs any lower, on average,
    than those of any random Pokémon - in fact, I seem to recall an AGNPer
    catching a good Ditto for breeding that had a
    better-than-catching-a-wild-one chance of having max IVs.

    Things may well have changed by now, but I doubt they've changed much.

    --
    Steffan Alun

    http://iceduck.pkmn.co.uk/ - my site
    http://www.pkmn.co.uk/ - want Pokeyman?

    Sapphire PokéDex: 201

    LeafGreen PokéDex: 106
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    "STEFFAN HEDD ALUN" <sha3@aber.ac.uk> wrote in news:1097535729.390304
    @leri.aber.ac.uk:

    > "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message
    > news:wtWdnS0oS4vvWvfcRVn-hw@rcn.net...
    >>I remember back in the GSC days a theory/rumor that breeding with Ditto
    >>produced offspring with lower than normal IVs. I think it was either
    >>because Ditto itself had low IVs, or because it just wasn't as
    effective as
    >>using two pokemon of the same egg group. Was this ever true, and is it
    true
    >>now?
    >
    > It was never true, although the way IVs were passed down was a bit
    different
    > since Ditto could breed with males, females AND the bicurious. Erm,
    > neuter-genders. This doesn't necessarily make IVs any lower, on
    average,
    > than those of any random Pokémon - in fact, I seem to recall an AGNPer
    > catching a good Ditto for breeding that had a
    > better-than-catching-a-wild-one chance of having max IVs.
    Hmm which makes me wonder if there was much difference between a bog-
    standard ditto and blu-tack my shiny one?
    Ted


    --
    Evil is such a negative term........
    I prefer differently moraled.
    \ /
    0 0
    °
    ~
    Y
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    "weirdwolf" <weirdwolfnospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:Xns9580FAD24C9iy0e6iurha8reg.ark.k@130.133.1.4...
    > Hmm which makes me wonder if there was much difference between a bog-
    > standard ditto and blu-tack my shiny one?

    Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11. Not the best Pokémon of
    all, but certainly above average, and a decent all-rounder.

    In RSFL, there's no correlation between statistic IVs and shininess, so
    there's really no difference at all between Any Given Shiny and Any Given
    Non-Shiny.

    --
    Steffan Alun

    http://iceduck.pkmn.co.uk/ - my site
    http://www.pkmn.co.uk/ - want Pokeyman?

    Sapphire PokéDex: 201

    LeafGreen PokéDex: 106
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    STEFFAN HEDD ALUN wrote:
    > "weirdwolf" <weirdwolfnospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9580FAD24C9iy0e6iurha8reg.ark.k@130.133.1.4...
    >
    >>Hmm which makes me wonder if there was much difference between a bog-
    >>standard ditto and blu-tack my shiny one?
    >
    >
    > Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    > Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11.

    What makes you say 10/11 is average? Was there some kind of test done to
    see which IVs are most common?
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message news:<ruednTvL1sNg3vbcRVn-uw@rcn.net>...
    > STEFFAN HEDD ALUN wrote:
    > > "weirdwolf" <weirdwolfnospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    > > news:Xns9580FAD24C9iy0e6iurha8reg.ark.k@130.133.1.4...
    > >
    > >>Hmm which makes me wonder if there was much difference between a bog-
    > >>standard ditto and blu-tack my shiny one?
    > >
    > >
    > > Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    > > Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11.
    >
    > What makes you say 10/11 is average? Was there some kind of test done to
    > see which IVs are most common?

    There is one thing Ditto can't bread with, Legends (such as Groudon and Mewtwo)
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message
    news:ruednTvL1sNg3vbcRVn-uw@rcn.net...
    >> Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    >> Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11.
    >
    > What makes you say 10/11 is average? Was there some kind of test done to
    > see which IVs are most common?

    All those IVs HAVE to be 10 or 11, since that is what determines shininess
    in GSC. In RS, those IVs can be anything at all, since shininess is
    determined by a seperate IV.

    No IVs are "more common" than others, since they're all (theoretically)
    random. A Shiny Combination is as likely as any other, but there are fewer
    combinations that result in a shiny.

    --
    Steffan Alun

    http://iceduck.pkmn.co.uk/ - my site
    http://www.pkmn.co.uk/ - want Pokeyman?

    Sapphire PokéDex: 201

    LeafGreen PokéDex: 106
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    STEFFAN HEDD ALUN wrote:
    > "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message
    > news:ruednTvL1sNg3vbcRVn-uw@rcn.net...
    >
    >>>Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    >>>Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11.
    >>
    >>What makes you say 10/11 is average? Was there some kind of test done to
    >>see which IVs are most common?
    >
    >
    > All those IVs HAVE to be 10 or 11, since that is what determines shininess
    > in GSC. In RS, those IVs can be anything at all, since shininess is
    > determined by a seperate IV.
    >
    > No IVs are "more common" than others, since they're all (theoretically)
    > random. A Shiny Combination is as likely as any other, but there are fewer
    > combinations that result in a shiny.
    >

    Oh, I thought you were talking about all pokemon when you said:

    Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11. Not the best Pokémon of
    all, but certainly above average, and a decent all-rounder.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    "John Salerno" <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message
    news:YbKdnSuhzuRok_HcRVn-ig@rcn.net...
    >> No IVs are "more common" than others, since they're all (theoretically)
    >> random. A Shiny Combination is as likely as any other, but there are
    >> fewer combinations that result in a shiny.
    >
    > Oh, I thought you were talking about all pokemon when you said:
    >
    > Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    > Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11. Not the best Pokémon of
    > all, but certainly above average, and a decent all-rounder.

    Well, I was. Since all combinations are equally possible, the "average"
    Pokémon would probably have IVs that total 35 or thereabouts (7 times 5 -
    the average IV times the amount of IVs), depending on how you define
    "average". A shiny's stats automatically total between 40 and 44 without
    even taking HP into account.

    Maths may be a bit off, but it shows my point.

    --
    Steffan Alun

    http://iceduck.pkmn.co.uk/ - my site
    http://www.pkmn.co.uk/ - want Pokeyman?

    Sapphire PokéDex: 201

    LeafGreen PokéDex: 106
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    John Salerno wrote:
    > I remember back in the GSC days a theory/rumor that breeding with Ditto
    > produced offspring with lower than normal IVs. I think it was either
    > because Ditto itself had low IVs, or because it just wasn't as effective
    > as using two pokemon of the same egg group. Was this ever true, and is
    > it true now?

    In GSC, breeding only passed down two stats: Defense and Special. The
    rest were random, just like on wild Pokemon. Also, the Special stat had
    a 50/50 chance of having its most-significant bit flipped (i.e. it could
    go up or down by eight, so 15 could become 7 and vice-versa).

    Normally, a male baby would inherit stats from its mother, and a female
    would inherit from its father. However, when breeding with a Ditto, the
    inherited stats always came from the Ditto.

    To get a shiny, it's Defense/Speed/Special genes all had to be 10 ('A'
    in hex), and the third bit of the Attack gene had to be a one. Put
    another (equally geeky) way, the bit structure of the two gene bytes
    needed to look like this:

    xx1x 1010
    1010 1010

    ('x' means that the bit can be either 0 or 1.)

    -- White Nerd
    http://nerdy.nerd.ne/
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    White Cat wrote:
    > John Salerno wrote:
    >
    >>I remember back in the GSC days a theory/rumor that breeding with Ditto
    >>produced offspring with lower than normal IVs. I think it was either
    >>because Ditto itself had low IVs, or because it just wasn't as effective
    >>as using two pokemon of the same egg group. Was this ever true, and is
    >>it true now?
    >
    >
    > In GSC, breeding only passed down two stats: Defense and Special. The
    > rest were random, just like on wild Pokemon. Also, the Special stat had
    > a 50/50 chance of having its most-significant bit flipped (i.e. it could
    > go up or down by eight, so 15 could become 7 and vice-versa).
    >
    > Normally, a male baby would inherit stats from its mother, and a female
    > would inherit from its father. However, when breeding with a Ditto, the
    > inherited stats always came from the Ditto.
    >
    > To get a shiny, it's Defense/Speed/Special genes all had to be 10 ('A'
    > in hex), and the third bit of the Attack gene had to be a one. Put
    > another (equally geeky) way, the bit structure of the two gene bytes
    > needed to look like this:
    >
    > xx1x 1010
    > 1010 1010
    >
    > ('x' means that the bit can be either 0 or 1.)
    >
    > -- White Nerd
    > http://nerdy.nerd.ne/
    But R/S is no longer that way?
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote:
    <SNIP>
    > But R/S is no longer that way?

    Correct. GSC was close enough to RBY to allow trading... the regular stats
    determined different aspects of it that were GSC-only. However, the friggin'
    huge assortment of R/S additions makes it impossible to transfer/trade.

    In RS, a separate stat determines Shininess, their nature (Bold, Shy, etc)
    is determined by some sort of generator, it keep track of what ball you
    caught it with, and a plethora of other stats that are mostly
    behind-the-scenes.

    --
    -----------
    Deep Thought
    -----------
    Erase the Earth
    to g-mail me.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.nintendo.pokemon (More info?)

    bjacolgruntz@yahoo.com (Bjarni Haraldur Sigf?sson) wrote in message news:<f85ed424.0410120503.32dc8a69@posting.google.com>...
    > John Salerno <johnjsal@NOSPAMrcn.com> wrote in message news:<ruednTvL1sNg3vbcRVn-uw@rcn.net>...
    > > STEFFAN HEDD ALUN wrote:
    > > > "weirdwolf" <weirdwolfnospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:Xns9580FAD24C9iy0e6iurha8reg.ark.k@130.133.1.4...
    > > >
    > > >>Hmm which makes me wonder if there was much difference between a bog-
    > > >>standard ditto and blu-tack my shiny one?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Any Shiny would have had some very specific IVs in GSC - Attack, Defense,
    > > > Speed and Special would all have been 10 or 11.
    > >
    > > What makes you say 10/11 is average? Was there some kind of test done to
    > > see which IVs are most common?
    >
    > There is one thing Ditto can't bread with, Legends (such as Groudon and Mewtwo)

    And also, Ditto can bread with genderless pokémon such as Shedinja and
    Magneton, but it can't bread with baby pokémon such as Azurill.
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