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Off-the-Air HD Antenna

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September 2, 2004 5:06:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
broadcasts?

TIA,
Mike




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More about : air antenna

Anonymous
September 2, 2004 5:06:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41375351_6@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


Sort of depends on how far away you are from the transmitter antennas. I've
been using Radio Shack combo (VHF/UHF) antennas for years with no probs. If
you're a long way away, then you might have to research a little bit.
There's a web site (www.antennaweb.org) that can tell you where the XMTR
antennas are wrt you.

Bearman

--
If it's got tits, tires, tubes, or transistors, it's trouble.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 7:13:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mike wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


IF you need UHF HD of analog channels 14 thru 59...

Try a ChannelMaster or Wyngard...

I use a Channelmaster 3021 ($25 at Stark Electronics, MA)

4 bay bow tie UHF up to 40 miles from towers indoor.

IF you are real close... Indoor Silver Sensor is OK.


Did you put your 5 or 9 Digit ZIP

Code in : http://www.antennaweb.org ...??

And see what's Digital Towers are in your area?
Related resources
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 10:40:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mike wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

More important is the receiver. If you wait a few months for the Hisense
5th generation receiver you will have a lot less of a problem.

There is no such thing as an HD antenna. We found that at 20 miles from
Manhattan behind a hill and in a dense old growth wooded subdivision
with good breeze blowing that we could receive all stations that we
could identify on a spectrum analyzer using a simple loop antenna taped
to a bedroom window. We simply taped the antenna to the window in no
particular orientation and did not adjust it at all during the test.

The same location with a number of different 4th generation receivers
could only receive two DTV stations using a rotored rooftop antenna and
even then a good breeze caused dropouts that made reception unwatchable.

The same was true in a Manhattan apartment where the same antenna beat
out all other indoor antennas including a Weingard 1000. In that
apartment seven NTSC channels were easily received with a indoor
antenna. Again only two DTV channels were received with the latest 4th
generation receivers and the antenna had to be placed on the floor for
one and on a bookcase for the other. With the loop antenna and the 5th
generation receiver we were able to receive 8 channels. The loop antenna
was hung on a vine it the window and did not need to be reorientated
during the test to get more channels.

Photos here
http://public.fotki.com/robmx/5th_generation_test/

How bad 8-VSB receivers have been till now is very apparent when you
compare. In a world where the FCC and Congress did their jobs and looked
out for the public interest the 8-VSB modulation and all receivers sold
to date would never have happened.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 10:40:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Remember, folks, whenever Bob Miller says anything, the exact opposite is
true!

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 10:40:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:21 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Mike wrote:
>> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>> broadcasts?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>More important is the receiver. If you wait a few months for the Hisense
>5th generation receiver you will have a lot less of a problem.
>
>There is no such thing as an HD antenna. We found that at 20 miles from
>Manhattan behind a hill and in a dense old growth wooded subdivision
>with good breeze blowing that we could receive all stations that we
>could identify on a spectrum analyzer using a simple loop antenna taped
>to a bedroom window. We simply taped the antenna to the window in no
>particular orientation and did not adjust it at all during the test.
>
>The same location with a number of different 4th generation receivers
>could only receive two DTV stations using a rotored rooftop antenna and
>even then a good breeze caused dropouts that made reception unwatchable.
>
>The same was true in a Manhattan apartment where the same antenna beat
>out all other indoor antennas including a Weingard 1000. In that
>apartment seven NTSC channels were easily received with a indoor
>antenna. Again only two DTV channels were received with the latest 4th
>generation receivers and the antenna had to be placed on the floor for
>one and on a bookcase for the other. With the loop antenna and the 5th
>generation receiver we were able to receive 8 channels. The loop antenna
>was hung on a vine it the window and did not need to be reorientated
>during the test to get more channels.
>
>Photos here
>http://public.fotki.com/robmx/5th_generation_test/
>
>How bad 8-VSB receivers have been till now is very apparent when you
>compare. In a world where the FCC and Congress did their jobs and looked
>out for the public interest the 8-VSB modulation and all receivers sold
>to date would never have happened.

You should go into the loop antenna business. For you outdoor antenna
you must have used some lead wire with lots of loss. Ever try a mast
mounted pre-amp. Which quality UHF outdoor antenna did you use?

My favorite UHF outdoor antenna is the winegard PR-4400 and for fringe
the PR-8800. Both are lightweight and have a 9 to 13 db gain over
dipole.

I use the PR-8800 up 30 feet with a 28 db pre-amp. I'm pulling in 6
digital HD stations from 80 miles away with no drop outs.

hdtvfan
September 3, 2004 5:15:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:06:33 -0400, "Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>broadcasts?

I just bought a Radio Shack Yagi (bigger than what I probably needed,
in hindsight) for about $45, and threw it up in the rafters of my
garage. I'm in a valley, so I was concerned if it would work, but it
does work fine, and I get all the local channels in HD.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 8:09:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

hdtvfan wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:21 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Mike wrote:
>>
>>>Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>>>broadcasts?
>>>
>>>TIA,
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>
>>More important is the receiver. If you wait a few months for the Hisense
>>5th generation receiver you will have a lot less of a problem.
>>
>>There is no such thing as an HD antenna. We found that at 20 miles from
>>Manhattan behind a hill and in a dense old growth wooded subdivision
>>with good breeze blowing that we could receive all stations that we
>>could identify on a spectrum analyzer using a simple loop antenna taped
>>to a bedroom window. We simply taped the antenna to the window in no
>>particular orientation and did not adjust it at all during the test.
>>
>>The same location with a number of different 4th generation receivers
>>could only receive two DTV stations using a rotored rooftop antenna and
>>even then a good breeze caused dropouts that made reception unwatchable.
>>
>>The same was true in a Manhattan apartment where the same antenna beat
>>out all other indoor antennas including a Weingard 1000. In that
>>apartment seven NTSC channels were easily received with a indoor
>>antenna. Again only two DTV channels were received with the latest 4th
>>generation receivers and the antenna had to be placed on the floor for
>>one and on a bookcase for the other. With the loop antenna and the 5th
>>generation receiver we were able to receive 8 channels. The loop antenna
>>was hung on a vine it the window and did not need to be reorientated
>>during the test to get more channels.
>>
>>Photos here
>>http://public.fotki.com/robmx/5th_generation_test/
>>
>>How bad 8-VSB receivers have been till now is very apparent when you
>>compare. In a world where the FCC and Congress did their jobs and looked
>>out for the public interest the 8-VSB modulation and all receivers sold
>>to date would never have happened.
>
>
> You should go into the loop antenna business. For you outdoor antenna
> you must have used some lead wire with lots of loss. Ever try a mast
> mounted pre-amp. Which quality UHF outdoor antenna did you use?
>
> My favorite UHF outdoor antenna is the winegard PR-4400 and for fringe
> the PR-8800. Both are lightweight and have a 9 to 13 db gain over
> dipole.
>
> I use the PR-8800 up 30 feet with a 28 db pre-amp. I'm pulling in 6
> digital HD stations from 80 miles away with no drop outs.
>
> hdtvfan
>
The rooftop antenna was at the home of Richard Bogner. If you do a
Google for Bogner and antenna you will find out who he is. He has spent
fifty years in the antenna and TV broadcast business including the
design and build of the antennas used on the Apollo missions. His
broadcast antennas are used worldwide.

He knows a little bit about antennas.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 8:09:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:09:36 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>hdtvfan wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:21 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>>Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>>>>broadcasts?
>>>>
>>>>TIA,
>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>>>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>>>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>>
>>>More important is the receiver. If you wait a few months for the Hisense
>>>5th generation receiver you will have a lot less of a problem.
>>>
>>>There is no such thing as an HD antenna. We found that at 20 miles from
>>>Manhattan behind a hill and in a dense old growth wooded subdivision
>>>with good breeze blowing that we could receive all stations that we
>>>could identify on a spectrum analyzer using a simple loop antenna taped
>>>to a bedroom window. We simply taped the antenna to the window in no
>>>particular orientation and did not adjust it at all during the test.
>>>
>>>The same location with a number of different 4th generation receivers
>>>could only receive two DTV stations using a rotored rooftop antenna and
>>>even then a good breeze caused dropouts that made reception unwatchable.
>>>
>>>The same was true in a Manhattan apartment where the same antenna beat
>>>out all other indoor antennas including a Weingard 1000. In that
>>>apartment seven NTSC channels were easily received with a indoor
>>>antenna. Again only two DTV channels were received with the latest 4th
>>>generation receivers and the antenna had to be placed on the floor for
>>>one and on a bookcase for the other. With the loop antenna and the 5th
>>>generation receiver we were able to receive 8 channels. The loop antenna
>>>was hung on a vine it the window and did not need to be reorientated
>>>during the test to get more channels.
>>>
>>>Photos here
>>>http://public.fotki.com/robmx/5th_generation_test/
>>>
>>>How bad 8-VSB receivers have been till now is very apparent when you
>>>compare. In a world where the FCC and Congress did their jobs and looked
>>>out for the public interest the 8-VSB modulation and all receivers sold
>>>to date would never have happened.
>>
>>
>> You should go into the loop antenna business. For you outdoor antenna
>> you must have used some lead wire with lots of loss. Ever try a mast
>> mounted pre-amp. Which quality UHF outdoor antenna did you use?
>>
>> My favorite UHF outdoor antenna is the winegard PR-4400 and for fringe
>> the PR-8800. Both are lightweight and have a 9 to 13 db gain over
>> dipole.
>>
>> I use the PR-8800 up 30 feet with a 28 db pre-amp. I'm pulling in 6
>> digital HD stations from 80 miles away with no drop outs.
>>
>> hdtvfan
>>
>The rooftop antenna was at the home of Richard Bogner. If you do a
>Google for Bogner and antenna you will find out who he is. He has spent
>fifty years in the antenna and TV broadcast business including the
>design and build of the antennas used on the Apollo missions. His
>broadcast antennas are used worldwide.
>
>He knows a little bit about antennas.

That's fine he can design resonate antennas for broadcast and
receiving. But explain to me how a loop antenna in the window with
one db gain can outperform a outdoor antenna with 6 to 10 db gain.

The only thing I come up with is the coax used absorbed most of the
signal.

hdtvfan
September 3, 2004 5:24:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I'm within 20 miles of 4 stations. Tried at least 5 antennas - Zenith Silver
sensor works the best.


"Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41375351_6@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 6:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:06:33 -0400, "Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>broadcasts?
>

Almost any antenna will work fro programs that are off the air. Not to
be to technical, but the reason is that they are off the air;)
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 4:18:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
> Remember, folks, whenever Bob Miller says anything, the exact
> opposite is true!
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Every answer is a vehicle for blasting the technology instead of just giving
an answer the specific question.

We know, Bob, we know.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 7:10:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

hdtvfan wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:09:36 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>hdtvfan wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:21 GMT, Bob Miller <robmx@earthlink.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>>>>>broadcasts?
>>>>>
>>>>>TIA,
>>>>>Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>>>>>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>>>>>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>>>>
>>>>More important is the receiver. If you wait a few months for the Hisense
>>>>5th generation receiver you will have a lot less of a problem.
>>>>
>>>>There is no such thing as an HD antenna. We found that at 20 miles from
>>>>Manhattan behind a hill and in a dense old growth wooded subdivision
>>>>with good breeze blowing that we could receive all stations that we
>>>>could identify on a spectrum analyzer using a simple loop antenna taped
>>>>to a bedroom window. We simply taped the antenna to the window in no
>>>>particular orientation and did not adjust it at all during the test.
>>>>
>>>>The same location with a number of different 4th generation receivers
>>>>could only receive two DTV stations using a rotored rooftop antenna and
>>>>even then a good breeze caused dropouts that made reception unwatchable.
>>>>
>>>>The same was true in a Manhattan apartment where the same antenna beat
>>>>out all other indoor antennas including a Weingard 1000. In that
>>>>apartment seven NTSC channels were easily received with a indoor
>>>>antenna. Again only two DTV channels were received with the latest 4th
>>>>generation receivers and the antenna had to be placed on the floor for
>>>>one and on a bookcase for the other. With the loop antenna and the 5th
>>>>generation receiver we were able to receive 8 channels. The loop antenna
>>>>was hung on a vine it the window and did not need to be reorientated
>>>>during the test to get more channels.
>>>>
>>>>Photos here
>>>>http://public.fotki.com/robmx/5th_generation_test/
>>>>
>>>>How bad 8-VSB receivers have been till now is very apparent when you
>>>>compare. In a world where the FCC and Congress did their jobs and looked
>>>>out for the public interest the 8-VSB modulation and all receivers sold
>>>>to date would never have happened.
>>>
>>>
>>>You should go into the loop antenna business. For you outdoor antenna
>>>you must have used some lead wire with lots of loss. Ever try a mast
>>>mounted pre-amp. Which quality UHF outdoor antenna did you use?
>>>
>>>My favorite UHF outdoor antenna is the winegard PR-4400 and for fringe
>>>the PR-8800. Both are lightweight and have a 9 to 13 db gain over
>>>dipole.
>>>
>>>I use the PR-8800 up 30 feet with a 28 db pre-amp. I'm pulling in 6
>>>digital HD stations from 80 miles away with no drop outs.
>>>
>>>hdtvfan
>>>
>>
>>The rooftop antenna was at the home of Richard Bogner. If you do a
>>Google for Bogner and antenna you will find out who he is. He has spent
>>fifty years in the antenna and TV broadcast business including the
>>design and build of the antennas used on the Apollo missions. His
>>broadcast antennas are used worldwide.
>>
>>He knows a little bit about antennas.
>
>
> That's fine he can design resonate antennas for broadcast and
> receiving. But explain to me how a loop antenna in the window with
> one db gain can outperform a outdoor antenna with 6 to 10 db gain.
>
> The only thing I come up with is the coax used absorbed most of the
> signal.
>
> hdtvfan
>
The main difference is that the full wave loop antenna that we were
using is omni directional.

Its one db of gain would be the same if used outdoors so I assume you
are talking of a yagi, which is directional, as "a outdoor antenna with
6 to 10 db" gain.

A directional antenna works better with current 8-VSB receivers because
they have to be shielded from static and dynamic multipath signals. The
5th generation receiver does not need this protection. I am not sure if
5th gen receivers actually uses multipath signals to their advantage
like COFDM does but they work so much better than current receivers that
in the test we did the loop omni directional outperformed a rooftop
directional yagi with rotor. That is we had to use the rotor for the
yagi to match the omni. If your changing channels you would want the
loop. Besides its much less expensive and doesn't need to be installed.

The coax didn't absorb any signal both antennas were able to receive all
channels that showed on the spectrum analyzer. The only difference was
that with the yagi that required use of the rotor. Non oriented omni
therefore wins.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 11:58:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41375351_6@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
I would agree with Bob Miller's post, it would be better to wait and get the
new receiver first. Otherwise
you may end up like me, trying antenna after antenna and still no good
solution. I don't know if the
new receiver will help me but after the last quote of $300 to install some
kind of monster antenna
on my roof I decided it would be better to wait a few months and try the
$200 receiver from Walmart
when the new 5th generation ships.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 1:22:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Contrary to the mis-information you may hear being spouted by the sales
droid at the store, you do not need a "special" or expensive antenna to
receive HD signals. Literally any antenna designed for the channel(s) you
need to receive will work perfectly as long as it is sized appropriately
for the distance between you and the station(s) you're wanting to receive
and that you install it in a location that has reasonably unobstructed
"line of sight" to the broadcast tower location. For details see
<http://www.antennaweb.org&gt;

Indoor or attic antennas usually do not meet this criteria unless you are
located exceptionally close to the transmitter and/or are very lucky. The
majority of folks who have tried the various indoor antennas have been
disappointed in the results. I've personally seen examples even within 15
miles of the transmitter location, where I can see the towers from the
roof of a single-story home but yet an indoor antenna simply will not
work. Certain types of contruction materials are known to thwart indoor
antenna success. A couple examples of this is are the zinc-impregnated
shingles and foil-backed insulation.

Secondly, avoid anything with the "TERK" brand name on it.

In article <g_i_c.19427$Ka6.13822@okepread03> "Mudd Bug" <muddbug@cox.net>
writes:

>
>"Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:41375351_6@corp.newsgroups.com...
>> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
>> broadcasts?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Mike
>>
>I would agree with Bob Miller's post, it would be better to wait and get the
>new receiver first. Otherwise
>you may end up like me, trying antenna after antenna and still no good
>solution. I don't know if the
>new receiver will help me but after the last quote of $300 to install some
>kind of monster antenna
>on my roof I decided it would be better to wait a few months and try the
>$200 receiver from Walmart
>when the new 5th generation ships.
>>
>>
>> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 7:06:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mr Fixit wrote:

> Contrary to the mis-information you may hear being spouted by the sales
> droid at the store, you do not need a "special" or expensive antenna to
> receive HD signals. Literally any antenna designed for the channel(s) you
> need to receive will work perfectly as long as it is sized appropriately
> for the distance between you and the station(s) you're wanting to receive
> and that you install it in a location that has reasonably unobstructed
> "line of sight" to the broadcast tower location. For details see
> <http://www.antennaweb.org&gt;
>
> Indoor or attic antennas usually do not meet this criteria unless you are
> located exceptionally close to the transmitter and/or are very lucky. The
> majority of folks who have tried the various indoor antennas have been
> disappointed in the results. I've personally seen examples even within 15
> miles of the transmitter location, where I can see the towers from the
> roof of a single-story home but yet an indoor antenna simply will not
> work. Certain types of contruction materials are known to thwart indoor
> antenna success. A couple examples of this is are the zinc-impregnated
> shingles and foil-backed insulation.
>
> Secondly, avoid anything with the "TERK" brand name on it.
>
> In article <g_i_c.19427$Ka6.13822@okepread03> "Mudd Bug" <muddbug@cox.net>
> writes:
>

As with COFDM the 5th generation receiver will have little need for
direct line of sight. As long as you get a decent signal level you will
get reception.

We were able to receive ALL stations that showed up on our spectrum
analyzer with the simple loop antenna on a window four feet off the
ground in a deep old growth woods behind a hill at 20 miles. The large
yagi on the roof had to be rotated to receive the same number of
channels as the loop.

Just wait!!

I have been saying this now for years. The power levels in the US should
give good reception at any distance out to the horizon without killing
your self. COFDM does so 8-VSB should also. Now we have 8-VSB technology
that is close to COFDM at least for static or fixed reception.

When you get to the point where signal strength is low you can try a
higher gain antenna but first in almost all locations TRY simple indoor
antennas with 5th generation receivers.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 1:12:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mike" <mikebegin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41375351_6@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
Every situation is unique. In the suburbs where signal strength is weak and
only one antenna is required and you don't have large buildings to cause
ghosts or multipaths then a high gain antenna for the channels needed is
best.

For urban environments where there may be multiple directions and building
causing ghosts (multipath) you will need a "directional" antenna or multiple
directional antennas. This can cause multipath because two antennas receive
the signals at different times. If you have a HD tuner older than 4th
generation you will have problems with reception. Winegard makes a tunable
signal trap that sells for $27.00 that will trap two selectable channels (8
db) with little loss to the other signal. Just tune the trap and install it
in the line from the antenna for signals that should be coming from the
other antenna. This works well.

You will still have problems with crowded frequencies and overloaded antenna
amps with third generation tuners. From what I have been hearing a software
update might help in that situation. Seems that the software is more
concerned with sensitivity than selectivity and that causes sound dropouts
on very strong stations or adj stations that are very strong.

I've just gone thru installing my own antenna system and I have three
directions with 4 antennas. To the north I have both UHF and VHF channels.
With a combination antenna I was getting too much signal from the back end
making the traps unusable. That was fixed by using a very directional UHF
antenna and cutting the UHF portion of the combination antenna off the
antenna. To the northwest I had one station that I needed, so another
directional UHF was added making three. On a separate line I installed an 8
bay UHF pointed apx south with an antenna amp.

With the traps I get a rock stable signal on my third generation receiver
with only ch54 with sound dropouts at certain times of the day due to either
overdrive or adjacent channel interference. There are 53 channels that my
tuner locks on when I "memorize channels". 21 of those are digital
channels. 5 of the digital channels should be out of my coverage area and
one channel that I don't receive that should be in my coverage area. We
even have several channels that are on the same frequency. (an analog
Christian station broadcasting on ch 34 and WUSF ch 34 digital broadcasts
from Tampa). With a 4th generation tuner I receive one more digital channel,
ch 52 and ch 54 doesn't have the sound dropouts. The signal is fairly
stable without the traps, with the traps it's even better.
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 3:47:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

What stations did you receive on the loop antenna? You say that ALL
stations that showed up on your spectrum analyzer were received with a
simple loop antenna. That statement may be very misleading, what if NO
stations showed up on your spectrum analyzer? Your statement would still be
true. I would really like to know more about the tests that have been
reported so much.

And this yagi on the roof, just where was it aimed before you had to rotate
it? There is no doubt that a directional antenna pointed the wrong way
would need to be rotated in order to receive signal. More info please.

Thanks,
--Dan

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FRk_c.105$ip2.46@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> As with COFDM the 5th generation receiver will have little need for
> direct line of sight. As long as you get a decent signal level you will
> get reception.
>
> We were able to receive ALL stations that showed up on our spectrum
> analyzer with the simple loop antenna on a window four feet off the
> ground in a deep old growth woods behind a hill at 20 miles. The large
> yagi on the roof had to be rotated to receive the same number of
> channels as the loop.
Anonymous
September 6, 2004 12:44:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Mike wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good off-the-air HD antenna to receive local
> broadcasts?

First, try your existing ANALOG TV antenna, if you have one.

[Alot of people seem to think that they need to get a new antenna, even one of
a different type, because the TV is digital. That is simply wrong. Granted
that alot of analog TV antennas may have been on "the roof" (or a tower) for
over a decade and may need replacement anyway, such would be true for continued
analog TV viewing.]
!