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Is it necessary to full format the new HDD?

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  • Hard Drives
  • Full Format
  • Partition Magic
  • Storage
  • Product
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March 7, 2007 9:00:57 AM

I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.

More about : full format hdd

March 7, 2007 10:11:54 AM

Quote:
A full format will double check the drive for errors and fix them as it goes. This helps to prevent data from being corrupted. So you may want to take the time to run a full format on the disk.


what he said :D 
March 7, 2007 10:25:07 AM

You don't have to, but if you're going to be using the disk for a couple of years, why risk unreliability by saving a couple of hours on formatting?
Related resources
March 7, 2007 11:42:41 AM

Yes, quick formatting can lead to problems later on if drive isn't wiped properly.
March 7, 2007 4:11:08 PM

NO it is not necessary for you to do a full format on a brand new drive. A full format is a waste of time unless there is previous data on the drive.
a b G Storage
March 7, 2007 4:39:49 PM

Quote:
NO it is not necessary for you to do a full format on a brand new drive. A full format is a waste of time unless there is previous data on the drive.

Yes what he said. 8)
March 7, 2007 4:57:20 PM

Quote:
Is it necessary that i full format all partitions first?


Depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

A Windows full format reads and verifies all sectors on the drive before setting up the file system structures. It does not overwrite all sectors or erase them. If it finds a sector it can't read, it maps it out as a bad sector.

A quick format just sets up the file system structures, it doesn't read & verify anything.

I'm of the philosophy that on a brand new drive, a full format is not necessary. The drive was already verified at the factory, so barring any problems in shipping, it has no bad sectors on it.

On a drive that you're reformatting that's been in use for a while, you may want to scan it for bad sectors just for peace of mind. However, there are better programs to check the drive's health than the Windows full format if that's what you're after. Manufacturer's utilities like Western Digital's Data LifeGuard Tools, Seagate's SeaTools, Maxtor's Powermax, etc., or 3rd-party hard drive analysis tools like SpinRite or OnTrack Data Advisor are all better at verifying your hard drive than the Windows full format.

On a drive that you need to erase for security purposes, to get rid of a boot-sector virus, remove a problem MBR, etc. the Windows full format won't do it. In this case you need a hard drive eraser like Active@ KillDisk or Darik's Boot and Nuke.

Because on new drives I don't see a need to full format, and on drives where the health needs to be verified I use a dedicated hard drive analysis program, and on drives that need to be erased require a dedicated program, I therefore never use the Windows full format for anything.
March 7, 2007 5:06:43 PM

Quote:
NO it is not necessary for you to do a full format on a brand new drive. A full format is a waste of time unless there is previous data on the drive.


There can be traces of data on the drive from manufacturer testing though, so it's a good idea anyway.
March 7, 2007 5:52:09 PM

Maybe i'm blind, but nowhere did I see him mention windows format utility. He said he was using partition magic. Just an observation.
March 7, 2007 6:55:57 PM

Quote:
Maybe i'm blind, but nowhere did I see him mention windows format utility. He said he was using partition magic. Just an observation.


true. but they're the same difference. NTFS is NTFS.
a c 160 G Storage
March 7, 2007 6:59:54 PM

Quote:
A full format will double check the drive for errors and fix them as it goes. This helps to prevent data from being corrupted. So you may want to take the time to run a full format on the disk.


what he said :D 
What he said about what he said

I is always a good idea to make sure a drive came through shipping and manufacturing without an error.....would suck to load it up then find it's full of corruption.....you think thats bad....try formatting a 500 through USB...OUCH!!!! but i did it....
March 8, 2007 12:06:41 AM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


Having used Partition Magic from version 2 to the current one, I find your statement that Partiton Magic did all its work in setting up your partitions in less than 2 minutes utterly unbelievable. Especially on a new hard drive. I think you are lying through your teeth, in fact. When PM sets up partitions on a new drive it always does a low level check for bad sectors etc. This takes a lot longer than 2 minutes even on an 80 GB 7200 RPM drive. New drives are considerably larger than 80 GB, and the bigger the drive the longer the process takes.

But, if you actually do use PM correctly, it will not only set up your partitions, it will do a low-level check error check, format and label the partitions and set up the file system you select.

In terms of why you want to do a full format, keep in mind that almost all of the hard drive manufacturers have reduced their warranty period from 3 years to 1 year. There's a good business reason (from their perspective) why they did this. You may also want to look up the large study Google did on hard drive reliability recently. Most interesting results.

At the very least, you should use the search engine in these forums to find threads dealing with formatting and hdd reliability BEFORE you start a new thread.
March 8, 2007 12:39:13 AM

Forum policing?
March 8, 2007 9:33:40 AM

Quote:
NO it is not necessary for you to do a full format on a brand new drive. A full format is a waste of time unless there is previous data on the drive.


The only difference between a full format and a quick format is that a full format runs check-disk (chkdsk) to check the new drive for bad sectors from the factory. You don't have to run a full format but every drive manufacturer that I have checked recommends to run a full format to ensure that there are no bad sectors. I always run a full format the first time that I am using a new disk. If there is already data on the disk then you can run a quick format not the other way around. Full (regular) or quick has absolutely nothing to do with any data that is on the drive. See link from Microsoft

Differences between a Quick format and a regular format during a "clean" installation of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302686

Edit: SP
March 8, 2007 11:09:44 AM

Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 
a b G Storage
March 8, 2007 11:23:43 AM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


Having used Partition Magic from version 2 to the current one, I find your statement that Partiton Magic did all its work in setting up your partitions in less than 2 minutes utterly unbelievable. Especially on a new hard drive. I think you are lying through your teeth, in fact. When PM sets up partitions on a new drive it always does a low level check for bad sectors etc. This takes a lot longer than 2 minutes even on an 80 GB 7200 RPM drive. New drives are considerably larger than 80 GB, and the bigger the drive the longer the process takes.

But, if you actually do use PM correctly, it will not only set up your partitions, it will do a low-level check error check, format and label the partitions and set up the file system you select.

In terms of why you want to do a full format, keep in mind that almost all of the hard drive manufacturers have reduced their warranty period from 3 years to 1 year. There's a good business reason (from their perspective) why they did this. You may also want to look up the large study Google did on hard drive reliability recently. Most interesting results.

At the very least, you should use the search engine in these forums to find threads dealing with formatting and hdd reliability BEFORE you start a new thread.

Emphasis by me.

WizardOZ - please do bare in mind that everyone who reads your post will judge you by the way you judge other people.

As far as how long PM takes to format a drive - it can be set to do a 'quick' type format just as easily as a 'full' type format. I have experienced PM finishing a format on a 250GB drive in less time than going to the kitchen and boiling a kettle (supposedly to make a cup of tea whilst waiting). Having wanted a full format I checked the switches and reformatted full. That took just over half an hour as expected. The tea and snacks were thus enjoyed in slow time.

As regards whether to format 'full' or 'quick' for a new drive - my own desire is always to do a full format on another machine as a slave drive first. Afterwards, transfer the drive to the new build and let windows setup do a quick format in the new machine, for all of the reasons that other posters have given.

Q
March 8, 2007 4:31:48 PM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


Having used Partition Magic from version 2 to the current one, I find your statement that Partiton Magic did all its work in setting up your partitions in less than 2 minutes utterly unbelievable. Especially on a new hard drive. I think you are lying through your teeth, in fact. When PM sets up partitions on a new drive it always does a low level check for bad sectors etc. This takes a lot longer than 2 minutes even on an 80 GB 7200 RPM drive. New drives are considerably larger than 80 GB, and the bigger the drive the longer the process takes.

But, if you actually do use PM correctly, it will not only set up your partitions, it will do a low-level check error check, format and label the partitions and set up the file system you select.

In terms of why you want to do a full format, keep in mind that almost all of the hard drive manufacturers have reduced their warranty period from 3 years to 1 year. There's a good business reason (from their perspective) why they did this. You may also want to look up the large study Google did on hard drive reliability recently. Most interesting results.

At the very least, you should use the search engine in these forums to find threads dealing with formatting and hdd reliability BEFORE you start a new thread.

Well, maybe you used different settings, partition magic came with my mobo cd so i used it and i still say that it took less then 2 yes less then 2 minutes to finish the process. I made 4 partitions and then all the work ran in batch, after it finished the process, hdds were good to store data.
Thanks guys for your posts, i still need much to learn abt hdds, i have did full format today just to be safe.
March 8, 2007 6:57:28 PM

Quote:
Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 


You were led astray. Both quick and full formats are the same format. The drive still has the data on it but it can't be seen. The data could be partially recovered by WinHex or other programs based on the file signatures, depending on how fragmented the drive is. If you are giving a drive away, e.g., donating a computer, then you would want do do a zero fill from the drive manufacturers drive tools. That will write zeros to the entire drive. The data can still be recovered but it would be very expensive. If you are really paranoid you can use wipe programs like the one below.

Data Shredder - Hard Drive Low Level Wipe Program, Data Eraser, Government Standard Data Erase
http://www.cbltech.co.uk/data-shredder.html

Edit: Here is another one that looks pretty good

Active@ Kill Disk Hard Drive Eraser
http://www.killdisk.com/
March 8, 2007 7:18:43 PM

Yeah, thanks again for this info, very interesting stuff. I thought that every time you formatted a drive it wiped it and had to set up the addressing system again :)  apparently this is done in the factory though and cannot be erased. :) 
March 8, 2007 11:19:31 PM

Quote:
Yeah, thanks again for this info, very interesting stuff. I thought that every time you formatted a drive it wiped it and had to set up the addressing system again :)  apparently this is done in the factory though and cannot be erased. :) 


Here is a link to Wiki that should clarify any remaining questions that you may have.

Disk formatting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_format
March 8, 2007 11:59:37 PM

Quote:


Well, maybe you used different settings, partition magic came with my mobo cd so i used it and i still say that it took less then 2 yes less then 2 minutes to finish the process. I made 4 partitions and then all the work ran in batch, after it finished the process, hdds were good to store data.
Thanks guys for your posts, i still need much to learn abt hdds, i have did full format today just to be safe.


It seems I owe you an appology for calling you a liar. Here it is: I retract my comment that stated you were lyng. I appologise for overstepping boundaries in a completely inappropriate way.

Mind you, I still don't believe that it only took two minutes, but it is possible.

I suspect that the version of PM you got with your MoBo is a "lite" versiion, with some settings turned off and / or unavailable like in the full version.

Note that my original obsertvations about hdd product quality issues remain valid - as are the observations about why warranties went from 3 years to 1.
March 9, 2007 12:44:30 AM

Quote:

Note that my original obsertvations about hdd product quality issues remain valid - as are the observations about why warranties went from 3 years to 1.


Doesn't Seagate offer a five year warranty?
March 9, 2007 12:56:47 AM

Not sure, thought it was 3.... WD give 5 on Raptors. Which is nice

And thanks for the Wiki link Zorq, just read similar earlier this evening in some Wiley book or other.

Why do you hate Vista so? They've dropped the limited upgrade thing now haven't they?
March 9, 2007 2:31:45 AM

The warranty offerd by any given manufacturer depends on which specific line / model you are buying. Consumer / mass-market lines have (usually) 1 year warranty (exception - Samsung), so-called enterprise models usually have a 3 year warranty. NONE of the manufactureres ever offered a 5 year warranty, as far as I know.

Enterprise drives are more expensive than consumer drives.

The Google study I referenced previously is worth checking out.
March 9, 2007 2:50:42 AM

Quote:
Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 


You were led astray. Both quick and full formats are the same format. The drive still has the data on it but it can't be seen. The data could be partially recovered by WinHex or other programs based on the file signatures, depending on how fragmented the drive is. If you are giving a drive away, e.g., donating a computer, then you would want do do a zero fill from the drive manufacturers drive tools. That will write zeros to the entire drive. The data can still be recovered but it would be very expensive. If you are really paranoid you can use wipe programs like the one below.

Data Shredder - Hard Drive Low Level Wipe Program, Data Eraser, Government Standard Data Erase
http://www.cbltech.co.uk/data-shredder.html

Umm... no. Format and quick format do the same thing, in terms of "removing the data. Specifically, they alter the entries in the FAT by changing the first character of teh file name / path to something not normally seen / recognized by the filemanager programme. In Windows / DOS this was the lower case Greek letter sigma. The data was not actualy removed from the drive until the sector / cluster that was "shown" to be "free" was overwritten by new data. How did you think the "Recycle" bin worked anyways? The functioanal difference between Format ande Quick-format is that the altter doesn't call chkdsk to check for bad sectors anjhd other problems. At that, if one runs check disc in a DOS window, the OS eill recommend running Scandisk instead.

Scandisk will actually do a better job of checking for errors ojn a hard drive than chkdsk will. It is after all a lobotomized version of Norton's Disc Doctor utility. The big problem with ScanDisk is that it will restart from scratch whenever Windows writes to disk. I have never seen ScanDisk actually complete a full scan of a partition on a hdd due to constant restarts when Windows writes to evenm the swap file.
March 9, 2007 3:29:33 AM

Quote:
The warranty offerd by any given manufacturer depends on which specific line / model you are buying. Consumer / mass-market lines have (usually) 1 year warranty (exception - Samsung), so-called enterprise models usually have a 3 year warranty. NONE of the manufactureres ever offered a 5 year warranty, as far as I know.

Enterprise drives are more expensive than consumer drives.

The Google study I referenced previously is worth checking out.


I can't find a link is it this one?

Google doubts hard drives fail because of excessive temperature, usage | Tom's Hardware UK and Ireland
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/16/google_hard_dr...

Because that article is very informative, especially about heat/cold relating to failure. I saw that links somewhere on Tom's the other day and posted it in a thread about HDs and heat related failure. I forgot where I saw it, maybe it was your post.

Quote:
Seagate warranty periods are 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or 5 years from the documented date of purchase, depending on the type of product and where it was purchased.


So it must be 5 years on enterprise class only.
March 9, 2007 3:33:19 AM

Quote:
Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 


You were led astray. Both quick and full formats are the same format. The drive still has the data on it but it can't be seen. The data could be partially recovered by WinHex or other programs based on the file signatures, depending on how fragmented the drive is. If you are giving a drive away, e.g., donating a computer, then you would want do do a zero fill from the drive manufacturers drive tools. That will write zeros to the entire drive. The data can still be recovered but it would be very expensive. If you are really paranoid you can use wipe programs like the one below.

Data Shredder - Hard Drive Low Level Wipe Program, Data Eraser, Government Standard Data Erase
http://www.cbltech.co.uk/data-shredder.html

Umm... no. Format and quick format do the same thing, in terms of "removing the data. Specifically, they alter the entries in the FAT by changing the first character of teh file name / path to something not normally seen / recognized by the filemanager programme. In Windows / DOS this was the lower case Greek letter sigma. The data was not actualy removed from the drive until the sector / cluster that was "shown" to be "free" was overwritten by new data. How did you think the "Recycle" bin worked anyways? The functioanal difference between Format ande Quick-format is that the altter doesn't call chkdsk to check for bad sectors anjhd other problems. At that, if one runs check disc in a DOS window, the OS eill recommend running Scandisk instead.

Scandisk will actually do a better job of checking for errors ojn a hard drive than chkdsk will. It is after all a lobotomized version of Norton's Disc Doctor utility. The big problem with ScanDisk is that it will restart from scratch whenever Windows writes to disk. I have never seen ScanDisk actually complete a full scan of a partition on a hdd due to constant restarts when Windows writes to evenm the swap file.

So you were agreeing with what I said? Because that's what it sounds like, but I can't be sure.
March 9, 2007 3:39:23 AM

Quote:
Not sure, thought it was 3.... WD give 5 on Raptors. Which is nice

And thanks for the Wiki link Zorq, just read similar earlier this evening in some Wiley book or other.

Why do you hate Vista so? They've dropped the limited upgrade thing now haven't they?


I used vista RC1 and I thought it was fine, albeit a little rough. What irritates me is the HDCP Digital Rights Management. It pigs up the OS and makes hardware manufacturers jump through hoops etc. I am tapped out on Vista. read the link in my sig and you will understand. This is the wrong thread for that anyway.
March 9, 2007 3:56:27 AM

I have always done a full format with a hard drive for the reasons stated above. To me a quick format is like laying a new asphalt street with out going over it with a steam roller.
March 9, 2007 4:12:09 AM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


:lol: 
the HDD had pass strict inspection before they go out , so you dont have to format it
March 9, 2007 4:25:49 AM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


:lol: 
the HDD had pass strict inspection before they go out , so you dont have to format it

Last time I checked HDs don't leave the factory formatted. You must be thinking of the factory formatted floppy disks. :lol:  Also, although the HDs may have strict inspections, that doesn't stop the occasional drive being dead on arrival. So do the full format. Better safe than sorry.
March 9, 2007 7:17:01 AM

Pretty much across the board for the drives I personally buy. (Now try to find the warranty on a raptor.... WD's website is not too helpful in this regard.)
March 9, 2007 9:21:23 AM

Quote:
Pretty much across the board for the drives I personally buy. (Now try to find the warranty on a raptor.... WD's website is not too helpful in this regard.)


Here we go:

http://support.wdc.com/warranty/policy.asp :) 
March 9, 2007 2:36:45 PM

Quote:
Pretty much across the board for the drives I personally buy. (Now try to find the warranty on a raptor.... WD's website is not too helpful in this regard.)


Here we go:

http://support.wdc.com/warranty/policy.asp :) 

That's right my Raptor is an enterprise class HD. 10,000 RPM X 60 min X 24 Hr X 365 days X 5 years =26,280,000,000 revolutions, That's what I call a warranty!
March 10, 2007 2:34:06 AM

Quote:
Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 


You were led astray. Both quick and full formats are the same format. The drive still has the data on it but it can't be seen. The data could be partially recovered by WinHex or other programs based on the file signatures, depending on how fragmented the drive is. If you are giving a drive away, e.g., donating a computer, then you would want do do a zero fill from the drive manufacturers drive tools. That will write zeros to the entire drive. The data can still be recovered but it would be very expensive. If you are really paranoid you can use wipe programs like the one below.

Data Shredder - Hard Drive Low Level Wipe Program, Data Eraser, Government Standard Data Erase
http://www.cbltech.co.uk/data-shredder.html

Umm... no. Format and quick format do the same thing, in terms of "removing the data. Specifically, they alter the entries in the FAT by changing the first character of teh file name / path to something not normally seen / recognized by the filemanager programme. In Windows / DOS this was the lower case Greek letter sigma. The data was not actualy removed from the drive until the sector / cluster that was "shown" to be "free" was overwritten by new data. How did you think the "Recycle" bin worked anyways? The functioanal difference between Format ande Quick-format is that the altter doesn't call chkdsk to check for bad sectors anjhd other problems. At that, if one runs check disc in a DOS window, the OS eill recommend running Scandisk instead.

Scandisk will actually do a better job of checking for errors ojn a hard drive than chkdsk will. It is after all a lobotomized version of Norton's Disc Doctor utility. The big problem with ScanDisk is that it will restart from scratch whenever Windows writes to disk. I have never seen ScanDisk actually complete a full scan of a partition on a hdd due to constant restarts when Windows writes to evenm the swap file.

So you were agreeing with what I said? Because that's what it sounds like, but I can't be sure.

I was agreeing with you PARTIALLY. To clarify, the difference between a full format and a quick format is NOT in how they treat the entries in the FAT (of whatever type), but in the level of disc integrity check they perform.

You really need to do some work on that reading compreeeehension thang you do.

While you are at it, you might want to seriously consider refreshing your comprehension of the following concepts: hardware deterioration over time and use, hdd's developing "new" bad sectors over time, consequences of "incorrect" shut-downs due to things like power failures and/or surges, and system lock-ups, not to mention specific application failures that can't be resolved by task manager end task. The list goes on.

A full format will do a minimum level check on the drive by calling chkdsk, while a quick format won't call up chkdsk.
March 10, 2007 2:41:48 AM

Quote:
Pretty much across the board for the drives I personally buy. (Now try to find the warranty on a raptor.... WD's website is not too helpful in this regard.)


These comments are interesting and useful, but limited. I get the printed copy of the TigerDirect catalogue. When one looks at the pages where hard drives are listed, the warranty terms are listed. And the range is from 1 to 5 years, depending on the brand and model. And more than half of the drives for sale have warranties of only 1 year. OOPS. Any references to Newegg or most other US-based on-line retailers are null and void, since they will NOT sell outside the US. Another OOPS.
March 10, 2007 2:53:34 AM

Quote:
Forum policing?


No, I am not trying to police the forum.

What a stupid comment you have made.

I was noting that it is possible to search the Forums for a particualr topic and follow up on the thread(s) before starting a new thread on a topic that has already been beaten well past dead.

Or are you suggesting that doing one's homework is a bad idea and inappropriate to expect from someone?

If you are, I truly hope that you don't have kids - if you do have kids, you are going to have a monster problem when they hit high school, given your attitude to homework.
March 10, 2007 3:20:13 AM

Quote:
I just plugged in a new hdd in my computer and used partition magic to do partitions, it did all the work in less then two minutes and make hdd ready to store data. HDD is 320GB in size so i must guess it quick formated the drive. Now the topic, is it necessary that i full format all partitions first? I read somewhere that its better to full format the new drives.


Having used Partition Magic from version 2 to the current one, I find your statement that Partiton Magic did all its work in setting up your partitions in less than 2 minutes utterly unbelievable. Especially on a new hard drive. I think you are lying through your teeth, in fact. When PM sets up partitions on a new drive it always does a low level check for bad sectors etc. This takes a lot longer than 2 minutes even on an 80 GB 7200 RPM drive. New drives are considerably larger than 80 GB, and the bigger the drive the longer the process takes.

But, if you actually do use PM correctly, it will not only set up your partitions, it will do a low-level check error check, format and label the partitions and set up the file system you select.

In terms of why you want to do a full format, keep in mind that almost all of the hard drive manufacturers have reduced their warranty period from 3 years to 1 year. There's a good business reason (from their perspective) why they did this. You may also want to look up the large study Google did on hard drive reliability recently. Most interesting results.

At the very least, you should use the search engine in these forums to find threads dealing with formatting and hdd reliability BEFORE you start a new thread.

Emphasis by me.

WizardOZ - please do bare in mind that everyone who reads your post will judge you by the way you judge other people.

As far as how long PM takes to format a drive - it can be set to do a 'quick' type format just as easily as a 'full' type format. I have experienced PM finishing a format on a 250GB drive in less time than going to the kitchen and boiling a kettle (supposedly to make a cup of tea whilst waiting). Having wanted a full format I checked the switches and reformatted full. That took just over half an hour as expected. The tea and snacks were thus enjoyed in slow time.

As regards whether to format 'full' or 'quick' for a new drive - my own desire is always to do a full format on another machine as a slave drive first. Afterwards, transfer the drive to the new build and let windows setup do a quick format in the new machine, for all of the reasons that other posters have given.

Q

Partition Magic has the option of disabling integrity checks for a particular drive in its options. The manual makes it clear that this applies to all actions where PM would perform an integrity check. There is no capaability to selectively disable integrity checks on the basis of a specific activity like formatting.

The OP didn't initially specify that he/she was using a version of PM that came with the MoBo CD. These are usually "lite" versions, with features disabled.

As for how I am judged, given not only the performance level of many responses to questions asked, but the demonstrable failure of the OP to actually do some homework, I am not worried about it. I would much rather be seen as "judgemental" than be known as a fool who offers bad or inappropriate advice. In the first case I can back up my position. In the altter case, I am a lying idiot. How does being a lying idiot help anyone here?
March 10, 2007 3:50:50 AM

I think that I based Seagate's warranty information on their global website... But my local retailer agrees, I have had to return one out of several dozen. No muss, no fuss. Worst case scenario, I have to drive across town to the local distributer. Again, no problems... So what's the problem?

Seagates warranties are pretty much 5 yrs across the board. WD's are hit and miss. Some are i, some are three, some are five... And then within model types it depends if its 'enterprise class' or oem'. Each to their own. For my friends and mates, I prefer Seagates. I just hope that my new Raptor doesn't make me try their warranty.
March 10, 2007 3:51:04 AM

Quote:
A full format will do a minimum level check on the drive by calling chkdsk, while a quick format won't call up chkdsk.


The Windows format command does not call chkdsk. Chkdsk is a completely separate Windows utility that checks the integrity of the file system (i.e. checks that directory structures, pointers, indexes, MFT fragments, NTFS journal, etc. are all consistent and intact). The Windows format (full format) checks that all sectors on the drive are readable. This is a very different operation from chkdsk. Chkdsk is checking the logical integrity of the file system structures. Format is checking the physical integrity of the sectors.

Chkdsk also has an option to read and verify that all sectors on the drive are readable (/r) but this option is off by default.

Quote:
Partition Magic has the option of disabling integrity checks for a particular drive in its options. The manual makes it clear that this applies to all actions where PM would perform an integrity check. There is no capaability to selectively disable integrity checks on the basis of a specific activity like formatting.


The option you are speaking of in Partition Magic disables bad sector checks, not integrity checks. Again this is a difference between a physical check of the readability of all sectors on the disk (bad sector check) and a logical check of the file system structures (integrity check). The bad sector checks is what can be disabled, the integrity checks that Partition Magic does cannot. If you disable the bad sector checks, Partition Magic can create a partition on a blank disk and format it just a few seconds.

Partition Magic always does integrity checks at every operation (before and after) and they cannot be disabled. Partition Magic's integrity checks are very similar to chkdsk.
March 10, 2007 11:52:19 AM

Quote:
Forum policing?


No, I am not trying to police the forum.

What a stupid comment you have made.

I was noting that it is possible to search the Forums for a particualr topic and follow up on the thread(s) before starting a new thread on a topic that has already been beaten well past dead.

Or are you suggesting that doing one's homework is a bad idea and inappropriate to expect from someone?

If you are, I truly hope that you don't have kids - if you do have kids, you are going to have a monster problem when they hit high school, given your attitude to homework.

You're right, it was a stupid comment, I didn't mean to say forum policing. I meant to say forum n*bhead. There was no need whatsoever to reply in such a rude manner to the OP. If you did not agree that he should be asking such a question, all you needed to do was simply not reply, rather than calling him lazy in such a stroppy manner. Some people don't have the time to find and read every thread that could be related to the information they require.

I also hope that you don't have kids, because with your attitude they will undoubtedly end up as those awful people who talk down to everyone else, making society that much more unpleasant because of it.
March 10, 2007 12:03:29 PM

Quote:

These comments are interesting and useful, but limited. I get the printed copy of the TigerDirect catalogue. When one looks at the pages where hard drives are listed, the warranty terms are listed. And the range is from 1 to 5 years, depending on the brand and model. And more than half of the drives for sale have warranties of only 1 year. OOPS. Any references to Newegg or most other US-based on-line retailers are null and void, since they will NOT sell outside the US. Another OOPS.


Most people here will only be interested in SATA drives though, probably buying from one of the 'big two'. Seagate offer 3 years on most SATAs here in Europe at least (surely not much different in US?) and are extending this to 5 years on their mid and high end models, not reducing it, making your original point, although probably accurate from the Tiger Direct Catalogue's viewpoint, irrelevant in real world terms.
March 10, 2007 11:04:09 PM

Quote:
Forum policing?


No, I am not trying to police the forum.

What a stupid comment you have made.

I was noting that it is possible to search the Forums for a particualr topic and follow up on the thread(s) before starting a new thread on a topic that has already been beaten well past dead.

Or are you suggesting that doing one's homework is a bad idea and inappropriate to expect from someone?

If you are, I truly hope that you don't have kids - if you do have kids, you are going to have a monster problem when they hit high school, given your attitude to homework.

You're right, it was a stupid comment, I didn't mean to say forum policing. I meant to say forum n*bhead. There was no need whatsoever to reply in such a rude manner to the OP. If you did not agree that he should be asking such a question, all you needed to do was simply not reply, rather than calling him lazy in such a stroppy manner. Some people don't have the time to find and read every thread that could be related to the information they require.

I also hope that you don't have kids, because with your attitude they will undoubtedly end up as those awful people who talk down to everyone else, making society that much more unpleasant because of it.

Well, ya know, I don't have kids of my own, but that's a seperate issue. But I did spend 10 years as a scout leader working with the kids of my peers, many of whom I know personally. From childhood. And my peers have not done a good job of child-rearing. Their kids are spoiled brats with very bad attitudes.

Speaking of forum knobheads, look who is talking. Given that the mods here are useless and lazy incompetents, and that I have seen really effective forums, I can't help wondering what your point is. Or are you, once again, suggesting that laziness and failure to do one's homework is acceptable? You wouldn't also be suggesting that laziness, and similar positive performance attributes, should be greeted with hugs, kisses, flowers and comments that re-enforce the self-esteem of the malefactor, now would you? See how far that gets you on a real job. You're fired isn't polite, friendly or pleasant. But you and your tender ilk make this outcome more likely. OOPS.
March 11, 2007 1:00:15 AM

But just because people you might meet are horrible to you, an idiot boss for example, doesn't mean you should treat others the same, that just perpetuates things and makes things bad for everyone. I really don't understand that attitude, I don't take any pleasure from being nasty to people, it just makes me p*ssed off, and I'd rather spend as little time as possible in that frame of mind. I don't think you should have greeted the OP with hugs and kisses, just basic manners. Yes, sometimes you need to be firm with people, but this occasion wasn't one of them. I also think you're confusing assertiveness with aggressiveness.
March 13, 2007 12:58:17 AM

Quote:
Ah, I was led to believe that if you quick formatted it didn't wipe all the data fully sometimes, which corrupted any new data laid down over it. Many thanks for the info and link. :) 


You were led astray. Both quick and full formats are the same format. The drive still has the data on it but it can't be seen. The data could be partially recovered by WinHex or other programs based on the file signatures, depending on how fragmented the drive is. If you are giving a drive away, e.g., donating a computer, then you would want do do a zero fill from the drive manufacturers drive tools. That will write zeros to the entire drive. The data can still be recovered but it would be very expensive. If you are really paranoid you can use wipe programs like the one below.

Data Shredder - Hard Drive Low Level Wipe Program, Data Eraser, Government Standard Data Erase
http://www.cbltech.co.uk/data-shredder.html

Umm... no. Format and quick format do the same thing, in terms of "removing the data. Specifically, they alter the entries in the FAT by changing the first character of teh file name / path to something not normally seen / recognized by the filemanager programme. In Windows / DOS this was the lower case Greek letter sigma. The data was not actualy removed from the drive until the sector / cluster that was "shown" to be "free" was overwritten by new data. How did you think the "Recycle" bin worked anyways? The functioanal difference between Format ande Quick-format is that the altter doesn't call chkdsk to check for bad sectors anjhd other problems. At that, if one runs check disc in a DOS window, the OS eill recommend running Scandisk instead.

Scandisk will actually do a better job of checking for errors ojn a hard drive than chkdsk will. It is after all a lobotomized version of Norton's Disc Doctor utility. The big problem with ScanDisk is that it will restart from scratch whenever Windows writes to disk. I have never seen ScanDisk actually complete a full scan of a partition on a hdd due to constant restarts when Windows writes to evenm the swap file.

So you were agreeing with what I said? Because that's what it sounds like, but I can't be sure.

I was agreeing with you PARTIALLY. To clarify, the difference between a full format and a quick format is NOT in how they treat the entries in the FAT (of whatever type), but in the level of disc integrity check they perform.

You really need to do some work on that reading compreeeehension thang you do.

While you are at it, you might want to seriously consider refreshing your comprehension of the following concepts: hardware deterioration over time and use, hdd's developing "new" bad sectors over time, consequences of "incorrect" shut-downs due to things like power failures and/or surges, and system lock-ups, not to mention specific application failures that can't be resolved by task manager end task. The list goes on.

A full format will do a minimum level check on the drive by calling chkdsk, while a quick format won't call up chkdsk.

Hey Wiz,
All I said was that the formatting portion of the drive in quick and full format were the same and that the data was still on the drive but couldn't be easily accessed. I never addressed anything with regards to "how they treat the entries in the FAT (of whatever type), but in the level of disc integrity check they perform". I also stated that there were other programs that could do a complete "cleaning" of the drive if that's what he wanted. Your response was Umm... no. Now what in my post are you saying umm... no to? Because whatever in my post that you are saing um.. no to, you are flat wrong. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt given your ramblings that were clearly off the topic of a reply to my post. I thought you were a few bricks short of a full load. I guess you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. As far as some stupid comment about my comprehension WTF? You might consider worrying about your own level of comprehension. Or you might read the whole thread and not just start at the end, before you start blubbering about things that have already been addressed in detail. Post in question:
Quote:
NO it is not necessary for you to do a full format on a brand new drive. A full format is a waste of time unless there is previous data on the drive.


The only difference between a full format and a quick format is that a full format runs check-disk (chkdsk) to check the new drive for bad sectors from the factory. You don't have to run a full format but every drive manufacturer that I have checked recommends to run a full format to ensure that there are no bad sectors. I always run a full format the first time that I am using a new disk. If there is already data on the disk then you can run a quick format not the other way around. Full (regular) or quick has absolutely nothing to do with any data that is on the drive. See link from Microsoft

Differences between a Quick format and a regular format during a "clean" installation of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302686Look it even has a link to the source document.
I saw your post:
Quote:

Given that the mods here are useless and lazy incompetents, and that I have seen really effective forums, I can't help wondering what your point is.

I suggest you go to those other effective forums and stay there. Maybe you can learn something, but I doubt it.
March 13, 2007 2:11:52 AM

Well, I think it is safe to say that we agree on some points. I'll even concede that I did a poor job of reading comprehension on some of your posts. And I appologize for my performance failure.

But, Bucko, I have been playing with computers for a very long time, and I have discovered, learned, mastered and forgotton a lot of stuff that kids like you don't even know existed. And if you were even 1/10-th as smart as you think you are, you would have done some digging on the overall technical content and validity of most of my posts here before you shot your mouth off. Not to mention encouraging me to F7ck Off. When you can legitmately match my knowledge and experience, then you can tell me to F7uck Off.

Oh yeah, one more detail for you to contemplate and digest - I learned about computers and their operation and details as a TERTIARY aspect of my job. Just think how much deeper a hole you would be in if computers were my main business, as opposed to a recalcitrant tool I need to get my job done.
March 13, 2007 2:21:14 AM

Quote:
Well, I think it is safe to say that we agree on some points. I'll even concede that I did a poor job of reading comprehension on some of your posts. And I appologize for my performance failure.

But, Bucko, I have been playing with computers for a very long time, and I have discovered, learned, mastered and forgotton a lot of stuff that kids like you don't even know existed. And if you were even 1/10-th as smart as you think you are, you would have done some digging on the overall technical content and validity of most of my posts here before you shot your mouth off. Not to mention encouraging me to F7ck Off. When you can legitmately match my knowledge and experience, then you can tell me to F7uck Off.

Oh yeah, one more detail for you to contemplate and digest - I learned about computers and their operation and details as a TERTIARY aspect of my job. Just think how much deeper a hole you would be in if computers were my main business, as opposed to a recalcitrant tool I need to get my job done.


Yeh, I know you are a genius. First, how old do you think I am? Second, Do you know what my experience is? Third, I don't care if you come on these forums and act like an @zz, It is up to you. But don't bust my balls about a post when there is nothing in my post that was inaccurate. Especially when all the stuff that you were spewing had nothing to do with the answer that I was providing to another poster about a specific question, and the vitriolic spew was reiterating information in a previous post. Oh, and the previous post was one of mine. I only blasted you because you pissed on three people in a row. Try Vallium, it might cool you out.
March 13, 2007 2:27:29 AM

Quote:

These comments are interesting and useful, but limited. I get the printed copy of the TigerDirect catalogue. When one looks at the pages where hard drives are listed, the warranty terms are listed. And the range is from 1 to 5 years, depending on the brand and model. And more than half of the drives for sale have warranties of only 1 year. OOPS. Any references to Newegg or most other US-based on-line retailers are null and void, since they will NOT sell outside the US. Another OOPS.


Most people here will only be interested in SATA drives though, probably buying from one of the 'big two'. Seagate offer 3 years on most SATAs here in Europe at least (surely not much different in US?) and are extending this to 5 years on their mid and high end models, not reducing it, making your original point, although probably accurate from the Tiger Direct Catalogue's viewpoint, irrelevant in real world terms.

Well, ya know, real world is a pretty elastic term.

And you would be surprised at just how many systems - with exclusively ATA/IDE drives - are purchased by "average" citizens, who niether know nor care about, or understand, all these nuances and details. And, surprise, the manufacturers of the systems these people buy do use the cheapest components possible. And some of these people manage to end up here asking for help.

As for your observation re SATA and warranty - bad news. I've seen SATA drives with 1 year warranties in the TigerDirect catalogue as recently as 3 months ago. What happens in Europe is irrelevant to here and vice versa. But I bet that the better warranties enjoyed in Europe have a hell of a lot to do with the much stricter regulatory environment there as opposed to North America.

For a comparisonm to be valid, you need to compare apples to apples, not apples to bananas. OOOPS.

Another fine mess you've gotten yourself into.
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