E4300@2997MHz Unreal Low Temps

[Viceras]

Hello folks,

As the subject states i'm getting some strange readings (I was a bit tired this morning when Computronics was very kindly trying to help me) So now i'm going to make absolutely sure I give all the correct info:

Tcase = 16-18C & 40-43C
Tjunction = Core0 18C Core1 20C & Core0 43C Core1 43C
Above temps are taken using Core temp, Speedfan, Everest & Easytunes Hardware Monitor.
TAT Readings; Idle Core0 35-40C Core1 37-42C Load Core0 54-57C Core1 54-55C

Bios is reading temps Tcase 20C System 30C

Ambient = 21C
Chipset = 965P
C2D = E4300
CPU Cooler = Arctic Freezer 7 Pro
Frequency = 2997MHz
Load = TAT + Orthos
Motherboard = GA 965P DS3 Rev2
Vcore = 1.3250

As you can see these are very low and I can only think that these temp monitors are perhaps incompatable with vista; TAT is the only one that differs from the rest but perhaps the rest are incorrect and TAT is right but i've heard TAT can't read this chip correctly and has compatability issues with Vista.

This is confusing as I'd like to know my exact temps can anyone confirm successful readings with any of the above software in Vista?

Thanks!

Vic.

EDIT; The Case Air temp is lower than the room Ambient temp as you can see from my Build i have a very empty case and the airflow is great. My legs actually get cold next to the case :twisted:

If you have ever used the Antec NINE Hundred case I have mounted the HSF so it blows the air out of the case through the back 120mm Fan, the top 200mm fan is on high and the front two are on high & medium respectively.

 

[CompuTronix]

Viceras, I've been watching this topic for several hours, so as no one has yet stepped up to render a second opinion, I will try one more time to convince you that this really is the way temperatures work. Please don't skip over this, as I've taken the time to adjust the temps to your new data, and rewrite many parts, so it's a bit different than last night's post.

EDIT; The Case Air temp is lower than the room Ambient temp as you can see from my Build i have a very empty case and the airflow is great. My legs actually get cold next to the case

You are mistaking chill factor, (which only affects live tissue, and not inanimate objects), with refrigeration. As an engineer, I'm here to tell you that as your computer is not refrigerated, it is not possible for any part of your computer to be below ambient, regardless of touch or impression, or how ever many erroneous software temperatures agree.

Tcase = 16-18C Idle / 40-43C Load
Tjunction = Core0 18C Core1 20C & Core0 43C Core1 43C
Above temps are taken using Core temp, Speedfan, Everest & Easytune Hardware Monitor.
TAT Readings; Idle Core0 35-40C Core1 37-42C Load Core0 54-57C Core1 54-55C

Bios is reading temps Tcase 20C System 30C

Ambient = 21C
Chipset = 965P
C2D = E4300
CPU Cooler = Arctic freezer 7 pro
Frequency = 3.0 Ghz
Load = TAT 100%
Motherboard = GA 965P DS3 Rev2
Vcore = 1.3250

It is only necessary to list the hottest core. See the problems?

Thermal Flow

...Regardless of Load, Tjunction is always ~ 15c higher than Tcase, and Tcase is always higher than Ambient.

No temps can be less than ambient, and Tjunction is always 15c above Tcase. Although TAT meets these Parameters, Core Temp, SpeedFan, Everest and EasyTune do not, and are therefore, quite obviously offset.

Scale

The temp scale shown in the example below illustrates the normal ~ 25c range between Idle and TAT @ 100% Load, and the typical ~ 15c difference between Tcase and Tjunction. 50c Tcase and 65c Tjunction with TAT @ 100% load are safe and reasonable temperatures.

Tcase/Tjunction

--70--/--85--85-- Shutdown
--65--/--80--80-- Throttle
--60--/--75--75-- Hot
--55--/--70--70-- Warm
--50--/--65--65-- N
--45--/--60--60-- O
--40--/--55--55-- R
--35--/--50--50-- M
--30--/--45--45-- A
--25--/--40--40-- L

Results

Tcase (BIOS, Motherboard Utilities, SpeedFan 4.32) = 30c Idle, 50c Load
Tjunction (Core Temp, SpeedFan 4.32 highest core) = 45c Idle, 65c Load

The above temp Results are normal. If you run TAT and Orthos simultaneously, TAT provides 100% Load, while Orthos does nothing, so don't run them together.

Variables

Even false temperatures have offsets which can be analyzed, and when given correction factors, may still be reasonably accurate.

Parameters

(B) Tjunction is always ~ 15c higher than Tcase.

(C) Tcase is always higher than Ambient.

(D) Tcase Idle should be ~ 2 to 15c higher than Ambient.

(E) Tjunction Idle should be ~ 15 to 30c higher than Ambient.

As you can see, except for TAT, your temps don't meet the Parameters.

Troubleshooting

(A) Vcore will typically sag ~ .025 volts under Load.

(B) Offsets between Core #0 and Core #1 of ~ 3c are normal.

(C) SpeedFan 4.32 can be configured to correct for Tcase and Tjunction offsets.

(D) Any hardware and / or software may misreport Tcase and / or Tjunction temps.

(E) 965 chipsets may misreport Tcase and Tjunction temperatures with +/-15c offsets.

The problem is that your Tcase temps are offset by -5c, and your Tjunction temps are offset by -20c. TAT is close, but in your circumstance, is still low by 5c. I recommend that you forget about Core Temp, Everest and EasyTune, and just follow the Offsets section of the Guide to configure your Tcase CPU temp for +5c, and Tjunction Core 1 and Core 2 temps for +20c. After you have SpeedFan configured, use it as your only monitoring program, and use TAT only for Load testing, and not in conjunction with Orthos or Prime95.

Offsets

If temperatures don’t meet the Parameters, then SpeedFan 4.32 can be configured to correct for Tcase and Tjunction offsets. From the “Readings” tab, click on the “Configure” button, then click on the “Advanced” tab. Next, click on the “Chip” field directly under the tabs, then use SpeedFan’s “Help and HOW-TO” icon included in the installation Program Group. Under “Contents” click on “How to configure” then click on “How to set Advanced Options”. Read this entire section including “Other interesting options” and “Temperature x offset. When configured, SpeedFan will provide a means to display all 3 Tcase and Tjunction temperatures correctly. SpeedFan is also extremely useful for observing temperatures and voltages using the “Charts” tab, while thermal benchmarking with TAT.

Corrected Results:

Tcase = 24C Idle / 48C Load
Tjunction = 40C Idle / 63C Load
Ambient = 21c

Hope this helps,

Comp 8)

 

[ravynmagi]

I have the same board (rev 3.3 though) and same E4300.

I also had oddly low temp reading on my board. It turned out to be the F9 BIOS the board was shipped with. I installed F10 and temp readings became more realistic.

 

[CompuTronix]

Do you consider your temps to be accurate?

 

[Viceras]

Thanks Comp! After applying your revised adjustments to speedfan here are my temps;

Idle Tcase 22-26C Load 49C(Max Temp)
Idle Tjunction 38-41C Load 64C(Max Temp)

Even with your revised changes (thanks again ) I am within normal levels correct?

Appreciate the help!

 

[CompuTronix]

Thank you for following through. Your temps now look just as they should. Nice work with tweaking SpeedFan. Good luck, and enjoy your rig.

Comp 8)

 

[darkstar782]

Hm whats your cooling? I get those sorts of load temps at 3.8GHz and 1.5875v vCore.

 

[flasher702]

"chill factor" affects anything with moving liquid and a tempurature difference. It's why you put fans on heatsyncs. It's why you blow on hot soup. Why you put a fan in your room even if you don't have AC. The reason the air coming out of his case feels cold is not because it's colder than the ambient temp, but because it's still colder than him and since it's moving it is picking up more heat. If the air coming out of your case seems cold it really only means that is colder than you, it isn't directly related to ambient tempurature. If you sandwich a thermometer inbetween a couple sheets of black contruction paper and put it in the flow of your case's exhaust fans you will see the tempurature go up above the ambient tempurature of the room. It doesn't matter wether you use your leg or a thermometer strapped to some other heat source to measure it; the effect will be the same.

Interestingly enough a computer measures tempuratures in much the same way your body does, as reletive to a control value. In the case of an animal the control value is our tempurature (skin temp, core temp, whatever is applicable to the situation) and it can vary. As your environment gets colder your skin tempurature also gets colder and you no longer feel chilled and visa versa. That's why mildly warm water feels burning hot if you try to use it to warm up your hands after a snowball fight. In the computer the control value is an arbitrary value or table of values of how the thermocouple should react to different tempuratures. A volt meter measures the resistance of the thermocouple and then compares the result it to the control data. The control data can be updated to be more accurate.

Typically the thermocouples and related hardware used in computers are quite small and cheap and are not highly accurate. Global offsets do not accurately compensate for hardware innacuracy because the level of accuracy will be different at each tempurature incriment. It is possible that the thermocouple reading could be completely accurate when it reads 40c but wrong when it reads 20c. The offset recomendations list a range of +2-15c so even if the offset values are more accurate it could still be wrong by up to 13c at idle and possibly more at full load depending on how accurately you guessed the effeciency of your HSF installation and how accurate the probe is at higher temperatures.

Solution: use another tempurature monitor to verify your offset is accurate at a range of tempuratures. You could secure a thermocouple to the side of the heatspreader before putting the HSF on and then you can verify your temps. My X-Qpack came with an extra pair of thermocouple probes as an independent module and I just stuck one underneath the HSF. It reads 2-3c lower than my core temp across a wide range of tempuratures so it seems they are both fairly accurate.

Having said that: The adjusted tempuratures seem to be accurate and low enough to be safe.

CompuTronix, what are you quoting?

 

[CompuTronix]

Flasher702, thanks for the science lesson. Perhaps wind chill would've been a more appropriate term, but as I'm frequently overwhelmed with topics and PM's requesting help on temperature problems, forgive me if my responses may occasionally be less than ideal.

I had been working with Viceras in this thread, as well as quite extensively in another the previous day, since he was posting Tcase Idle below ambient. One of my objectives was to help him understand this indicates an offset condition, which can be adjusted with SpeedFan 4.32 to display the corrected values.

Intel's spec for thermocouple accuracy is +/-1c. The probe under your HSF is a great idea to approximate Tcase. Core temps, which are Tjunction, should read ~15c higher. Also, I'm quoting the Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide:

Thermal Flow

...Tcase is always higher than Ambient.

Variables

...Even false temperatures have offsets which can be analyzed, and when given correction factors, may still be reasonably accurate.

Parameters

...(C) Tcase is always higher than Ambient.

(D) Tcase Idle should be ~ 2 to 15c higher than Ambient...

Hope this helps,

Comp 8)