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QX6700 Tjunction? Tcase? What is safe?

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March 8, 2007 8:14:01 PM

Hey, I'm new here but after reading that C2D temperature guide I signed in. Some great reading there.

Only a shame for me, was that the Core2Quad Extreme QX6700 has not been insterted in the list. Yep, I have one. :wink:

Now in that list for the X6800 the Tcase max is 60.4°C. As I've found on the Intel site, for my quad it's 65°C. Now doing the addup of 15°C as shown in the guide I would come to a max of 80°C for the QX6700

Now the thing is in core-temp 0.94beta it's says for the Tj 100°C. Also when I run Prime95 with small tests the temps go easy to above 80°C, so I'm worried. At idle the warmest core is 52°C (while typing this) in core-temp. So the delta is around 30°C

CompuTronix or others off course
Here some questions:
1. What is the safe max Tjunction for the QX6700
2. TAT, is there a version that will work with a nVidia chipset. Or a simular program
3. Is that Tuniq Tower really a good option? I want to OC my cpu to a 3.2GHz. Or should I save the cash and buy immediately the Coolit Freezone
4. Are the temp readings during Prime95 normal?

Thx in advance.


PS: before you ask :wink:

Tcase = 33°C (Probe) & above 70°C (Prime95 small FTP's)
Tjunction = 52°C (Core-Temp) & above 80°C (Prime95, can't run TAT)

Ambient = 20°C
Chipset = 680i
C2D = QX6700
CPU Cooler = Zalman 9700 LED
Frequency = 2.66GHz (stock)
Load = Prime95
Motherboard = Asus Striker Extreme (bios 0901)
Vcore = 1.34V
March 10, 2007 2:35:44 PM

Nobody knows?
March 14, 2007 6:52:30 PM

Hmm, must have done something wrong? Still no reply? So nobody knows it, or might give me directions were to find it?
Related resources
March 15, 2007 6:13:59 PM

oh man i hope i could help, but i cant, just wanted to keep alive your post until you get answer, if its usefull 4 you i have the kandalf lcs only for the qx6700, idle temp(hot core) is 24c shown in bios since i have yet fail to find a core temp reading software for vista ultimate 64 8O
March 15, 2007 8:22:49 PM

Quote:
oh man i hope i could help, but i cant, just wanted to keep alive your post until you get answer, if its usefull 4 you i have the kandalf lcs only for the qx6700, idle temp(hot core) is 24c shown in bios since i have yet fail to find a core temp reading software for vista ultimate 64 8O

No worry's. But I can't find it anyware. I know the TDP is 130W and Tcase 65°C. But I can't find anywhere the Tjunction so I can know what is safe.

For your problem with core-temp. Here is a link that can help.

http://www.thecoolest.zerobrains.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=211
March 15, 2007 8:40:50 PM

the new speedfan does core temp monitoring in 64 bit vista ultimate. Just doesnt do SMART or fan speed monitoring yet.
March 16, 2007 7:10:33 PM

Let's keep this thing alive for another moment. :wink:

This must be a very hard question. What is the max Tjunction of the Intel Quad-Core Extreme QX6700. And then what is safe? Core-Temp indicates it's 100°C. So is this true and can I run then safely my cpu to 85°C all day long?

But then, the Tcase is only 65°C. So there is a difference about 35°C. Now that very nice cpu temperature guide (which didn't cover the quad) says it's only a difference off 15°C for the dual-core.

I don't know, do you?
March 16, 2007 8:33:32 PM

(Core-Temp indicates it's 100°C!) tht would be nice, somebody most know this, lets keep alive this until we get answer (yes we) since im serching for tht now, since im about to oc the comp, many ppl have oc the processor and there only 2 options, they all are carless about the 1000bucks chip or they know and the dont share lol :x

aight speed fan is working fine ty! so here are my readings
idle(almost idle)vista ultimate all eyecandy on.
on bios says 26c in windows reprted by speedfan cores/31c/32c/32c/28c
while writing this + everest stress cpu test + seti = ouch 100% real cap since i bearly can write this slow motion 8O . and after 20 mins. cores /57c/56c/51c/52c
mobo idle 29 mobo load same conditions 34 and whatever temp 3 is 40c
is this good for watercooled? ur im fu$% up
ambiet (room) acording to my digital (thermometer) lol i dont know the word. 25c
March 16, 2007 10:44:36 PM

Quote:
(Core-Temp indicates it's 100°C!) tht would be nice, somebody most know this, lets keep alive this until we get answer (yes we) since im serching for tht now, since im about to oc the comp, many ppl have oc the processor and there only 2 options, they all are carless about the 1000bucks chip or they know and the dont share lol :x

aight speed fan is working fine ty! so here are my readings
idle(almost idle)vista ultimate all eyecandy on.
on bios says 26c in windows reprted by speedfan cores/31c/32c/32c/28c
while writing this + everest stress cpu test + seti = ouch 100% real cap since i bearly can write this slow motion 8O . and after 20 mins. cores /57c/56c/51c/52c
mobo idle 29 mobo load same conditions 34 and whatever temp 3 is 40c
is this good for watercooled? ur im fu$% up
ambiet (room) acording to my digital (thermometer) lol i dont know the word. 25c
Your numbers look very good. My room is 20°C and I hit the 80°C (hottest core) while running Prime95 small FFT's.

I guess you are safe. The Tcase is 65°C and you are still below that at your cores. For me, I think there is something wrong with my setup off the Zalman. I'm looking for that Shin-Etsu X23 paste but can't find it in Belgium. The next thing would be according a review, the AS Ceramique. But I wrote an email to AS and they told me AS5 which didn't came out all to good in that test. So I'm a little confused what to take.

So are you running water cooling?
March 18, 2007 4:05:24 PM

yep watercolled, im gonna take i pic and try to post it here i have ude as5 for a long time in all my components as far as i know is gr8! i have always notice a 3c drop after install and after 1 week another 2c more thts 5c not bad just for a grease, also about the ceramic ,dont listen to me to much i may be mistaken but i saw somewhere than tht grase will (cure)
and get solid making any type of adjustment very hard.

u may wanna try first using the stock cooler, and see what happend
also whats your temp diference between cores?
March 18, 2007 4:21:49 PM

Quote:
yep watercolled, im gonna take i pic and try to post it here


What did you all cool? Just the cpu or also other chips? And can you give me details about your cooling? I'm thinking also about watercooling, but for me everything should fit inside my case because I also go to a LAN from time to time.

First I will try off course reinstalling the Zalman with AS5, and see the results. I just found out that you have to apply it horizontal on a quad-core instead of vertical like for a dual-core cpu. Maybe the shop which mounted it, did it wrongly.

It's my first DIY, so I've let it build. Did already some changes myself, like cleaning up cables, changing to more quite fans, adjusting the bios to get more stability etc.. That's the advantage of the Asus Striker mobo. The thing is still little buggy and the support from Asus is zero. So I've learned a lot allready. Speed-course in DIY pc's :lol: 
March 18, 2007 4:29:16 PM

well no outside things in the kandalf lcs, im charging the camera to be able to post the pics, but i must tell you than the weight of the kandalf is brutal , im using all the cooling for the processor. chipset is good u will see in the pic
March 18, 2007 4:43:34 PM

ok here are the pics i hope, heh i have never post a pic so test 1


[/img]http://slavemaker.5u.com/cgi-bin/i/images/kandlaf3.jpg[/img]

well it kinda work heh just click on the link and copy the other one lol, sorry about the cables the comp still in testing

and you are right, thermal grease must be apply horizontal acording to triange in the qx6700 processor, triangle must be down to the left.. so im going to doit right now!!! ty wish me luck
March 18, 2007 5:49:24 PM

Good luck! :wink:

That candalf. It's a case with the watercooling already mounted?

But I've seen enough. You have a 3 ventilator radiator. That's to big to install in my case. :? I'll wait untill cooilit comes with a cooler for the quad then. The Freezone they have now can't deal with the heat. There is something that makes the quad more special then other cpu's.

Still we don't have an answer about a safe Tjunction. Is it 80°C or 65°C? Keeping the main question alive 8)
March 19, 2007 12:12:38 AM

well i just hope tht its above 80c at least or 100c heh we can dream until somebody tell use the truth, i spend about 3 hrs cleaning the wires of my comp, reorginize the hole thing im going to post it , in a few
ok it's done chek it out
http://slavemaker.5u.com/photo2_1.html

Freaking Tjunction!!!!! sneaky
March 19, 2007 4:24:31 PM

Looks nice. Always a pain cleaning the cables. :D 

Where is your psu sitting? Can't see on the pictures.

Hmm, Tjunction??? anyone? :roll:
March 20, 2007 3:35:40 AM

man i found on a techforum than the tjunction for qx6700 is 100c but im not sure since it was just one guy, but noone call him a liar, since i got a little desperate, i throw the dice, i made mi frist lame overclock just manually adjusting the timings and speed for my memory and set the mutilpier to 11x , i have now 2994mhz it runs like acharm and mi 3d mark went 1000 extra points, but we still need confirmation from someone that knows for sure.
my psu is the brand new invisible one, lol hehe u r the 4th person to ask tht,, the psu is in the top back of the case, and the other 2 psu's are below the dvdrw and dvd
March 20, 2007 4:19:46 PM

Quote:
man i found on a techforum than the tjunction for qx6700 is 100c but im not sure since it was just one guy, but noone call him a liar, since i got a little desperate, i throw the dice, i made mi frist lame overclock just manually adjusting the timings and speed for my memory and set the mutilpier to 11x , i have now 2994mhz it runs like acharm and mi 3d mark went 1000 extra points, but we still need confirmation from someone that knows for sure.
my psu is the brand new invisible one, lol hehe u r the 4th person to ask tht,, the psu is in the top back of the case, and the other 2 psu's are below the dvdrw and dvd

You have three small psu then? Strange, first time I see that...

100°C is also what Core-Temp says. Maybe we can see it also in TAT but I can't run that program because of the nVidia 680i chipset.
March 20, 2007 7:31:09 PM

yeah it kinda sounds like it eh 8)

theres all but small power in there (1150watts) is better since u avoid ground looping so everthing is more stable and safe :D 

man 818ppl has read this thread, and no answer, i think is time to let this post to die in the air (it sux) since i dont see any advance here
March 20, 2007 8:06:32 PM

Yep, I guess you're right. We kept it alive long enough.
Guess we are the only ones with a quad here that care about our money.

Well, It's been fun :wink:
March 21, 2007 11:21:29 PM

I'm not sure whether this subject is now closed or still active. I just stumbled onto it.
It is a subject I have been trying to track down for several weeks because I bot a QX6700 a few weeks ago & it is overclocked & I don't know how far to go without damaging the cpu. I care about my $s too. I don't have any good answers, but I have a few stray opinions that might be useless & might be wrong.

I think the label "Tjunction" is used in at least three different ways. These are related, but not precisely the same.

****************

(1) The desktop Core 2 cpus have a partial metal heatspreader on top & then some sort of internal thermal interface material & then a silicon layer where the computation is done & the heat is generated & then a supporting board for the silicon. "Tjunction" is then sometimes used to refer to the temperature (that one might be able to measure) at the junction between the silicon layer & the supporting board. Of course, this temperature (that one might measure, at least in principle), will go up & down with computational load, with core voltage, with fan speed, with room temperature, etc.

*****************

(2) "Tjunction" is sometimes used to refer to THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE VALUE of the temperature I have defined above in (1). THIS SHOULD BE CALLED TjunctionMAX, but usually it is not. This number will not go up & down with any running conditions at all. It is a fixed tolerance spec set by Intel for each type of chip.

*****************

(3) Intel has implanted some type of thermal sensors somewhere in the silicon layer of their Core2 cpus.
These generate a digital signal that can be picked up & then used to calculate a temperature by using a formula provided by INTEL. This formula of INTEL looks approximately like this:

temperature = constant - digital_signal.

The constant in the above formula is called "Tjunction" by Intel. That is, Intel writes this formula as

temperature = Tjunction - digital_signal.

This third type of "Tjunction" is not something that is measured or can be measured at all. It is just a constant in a formula that has been chosen by Intel for its own use. It is different for different types of cpus, but does not vary with use.

*********************

When the CoreTemp software reports that "Tjunction = 100 C" (or whatever it reports to you) it is not reporting anything measured at all. The author of CoreTemp is simply telling you that CoreTemp has calculated the core temperatures by plugging the number 100 into Intel's formula & then used

temperature = 100 - digital_signal.

and reported the result to you as your core temperature. Of course, we all hope that the CoreTemp has correctly identified the type of your cpu & has gotten the correct constant assigned by Intel for your cpu. Otherwise GIGO.

*********************

Of the three different uses I listed above for the same label "Tjunction", the 1st & 3rd are just fixed numbers (for each type of cpu) that have been set by Intel. Then, has Intel chosen to set these two numbers to be equal? I hope so, but I'm not sure.

*********************

Tcase. I have claimed above that the label "Tjunction" was rather ambiguous. Now what about "Tcase"? I have tried to read the Intel document. It does define "Tcase" as the temperature on the center of the outside surface of the heatspreader. But this section of the Intel document is giving design specs to the thermal design engineers. It does not say that Intel or anyone else has actually placed any thermal sensors on the outside surface of the heatspreader. The thermal design engineers have various goals: to reduce costs & to hold down noise levels., etc. Intel is telling the thermal design engineers, "OK, you can cut back on the thermal design of your computer, so long as you can remove 130 Watts from the cpu without letting the temperature at the center of the outside surface of the cpu heatspreader go above 65 deg C". [I am just using some Intel numbers for a QX6700 cpu as an example. There are other numbers for other power levels & other cpus.] The thermal design engineer is expected to make calculations or tests to ensure his design can meet Intel's specs. If those specs are met, then Intel warrants, based on its own thermal calculations inside the cpu, that the cpu will function for its design life. I have found no claim by Intel that there is a thermal sensor for "Tcase".
Intel's own TAT software does not report such a result, at least when I run it.

*********************

There is at least one more "temperature" we must deal with. That is a temperature that is somehow picked up by the motherboard hardware & then reported in the BIOS & often by proprietary motherboard windows software & by other software such as Fanspeed. I have two ASUS P5B motherboards. They use ASUS software & call this temperature just "CPU temperature". The terms "Tcase" or "Tjunction" are not used by ASUS.

One of my ASUS motherboards has a Core 2 Duo installed. At this time it is reporting "CPU" temperature = 64 deg C. But TAT reports that the two core temperatures are Core 0 = 54 deg C and Core 1 = 55 deg C. Now we can say that this ASUS "CPU" temperature is NOT "Tcase" because the core sensors are in the silicon layer of the cpu where the heat is generated. The Tcase temperature must be cooler than the silicon temperature because the heat is being removed through the heatspreader & heat must flow from a higher temperature in the silicon layer to a lower temperature in the heatspeader or "case".

So then what is the "CPU" temperature? Motherboard makers have been planting thermal sensors in & under & around cpu sockets for many years before cpus contained any internal sensors. These MB sensors have usually been quite unreliable. I claim the MB makers are still at it, giving us unreliable temperature reports. What is the MB "CPU" temperature? It is garbage out. Not related to "Tcase" or "Tjunction". Not to be trusted for anything.

But I would be interested to hear about cpu temperature reports by other motherboards, as compared to TAT for example, and any reports by MB makers as to just what it is they are reporting to us as "CPU" temperature.

BOTTOM LINE

It is "Tcase", the temperature at the outside center of the heatspreader, that must be controlled to ensure that the cpu will work for its design life, but there are no known sensors that provide this information. It is only obtainable by the thermal design engineer based on detailed heat transfer calculations or measurements. But I think there is one thing we do know about "Tcase". It must be lower than the highest temperature in the silicon layer of the cpu because heat must flow "downhill" from the silicon to the heatspreader to get out. I think the thermal sensors that are placed in the silicon layer by Intel & reported as "Core temp" by TAT are near the high temperature regions in the silicon. So it looks safe to me to assume that if all Core temperatures are within the specs given by Intel for Tcase then the cpu is safe.

In other words:

If we observe from TAT reports that Tcore<TcaseSPEC
and we know that Tcase<Tcore because heat flows downhill,

Then we are safe in concluding that Tcase < TcaseSPEC, so Tcase is within specs.

All the above is purely opinion of course. No warranty is expressed or implied. Read at your own risk.

Walt
March 22, 2007 11:18:14 AM

Newbie here..

I have a QX6700 - overclocked it for a short while to 3.0ghz - idle temp went up 4.0c.
At standard speed CPU runs 24.0c idle - on full load with all 4 cores at 100pct - 33.0c. MB temps are around 3.oc higher all round.

These temps are taken using Asus AI software.

I've just built this PC

Antec 900 Gaming Case - additional 12" fan
QX6700 Extreme CPU
Zalman 9700 LED Nvidia Cooler
Asus Commando MB
2gb A-Data Vitesta Extreme 1066
XFX 8800 GTX Graphics Card
WD Raptor X
WD 320GB Sata II

I'm pleased with it - it does the job!
March 22, 2007 6:21:55 PM

Just at the time I gave up on my post it comes alive.. 8O

Nice detail post there... :wink:

Like I always thought and to keep it simple, is that the Tcase temperature is the one at the head-spreader. And the Tjunction the real temperature in the core.

Intel gives 65°C for Max Tcase for the quad-core. So yes, if your core temperatures are lower then this at full load, you are 100% safe. But this isn't with me. They easely go up to 80°C at full load.

Now Core-Temp says that the Tjunction is 100°C. So 80°C would be warm but still safe, if core-temp is correct.

I don't understand that formula to calculate the Tjunction that you gave me, so sry about that. But the question remains, is Core Temp correct?

Does that program TAT give a maximum? I can't run that on my nVidia board.
March 22, 2007 7:13:03 PM

Kibosh, I've been wondering about this question too. I don't have a definitive answer but I do not believe you should rely on the data shown in CoreTemp as indicating that 100C is a safe temperature.

According to the Intel spec sheets the max recommended Tcase temp for the QX6700 appears to be 64.5C:

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/315...

Based on the other posts/links in this thread, I don't see how Tjunction could be 100C with Tcase under 65C.
March 22, 2007 7:46:38 PM

Quote:
Kibosh, I've been wondering about this question too. I don't have a definitive answer but I do not believe you should rely on the data shown in CoreTemp as indicating that 100C is a safe temperature.

According to the Intel spec sheets the max recommended Tcase temp for the QX6700 appears to be 64.5C:

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/315...

Based on the other posts/links in this thread, I don't see how Tjunction could be 100C with Tcase under 65C.


:lol:  I keep running into to you all the time :lol:  ... It's a small world

Hey Avias. I know because that's why I posted here. Because they made that good temperature guide for the dual-core, I thought I try my luck and ask about the quad-core. Untill now, still no answer about that. I've read somewhere in the beginning that the quad came out, it was build to handle higher temps... Now just to find out how much higher.

I've looked at many place. No real google result on this one. I've even been on german forums. The problem was I can just understand a little of that language. I saw temps around 85°C but I couldn't figure out it was an idiot or he knew what he was doing :wink:

My cpu isn't overclocked, still running at 2.66GHz and Prime95 makes it hit 80°C in Core-Temp. I've already ordered some new AS5 and I will remount the Zalman but still. I don't think I will gain much by remounting the zalman and 80°C is a lott. Luckely for gaming it doesn't get to that level, but I want to overclock also. Hopefully Coolit doesn't take to long with creating that Freezone version for the Quad-Core cpu's.

I'm really a bit stuck about that cpu temperature thing. It surely not the temperature in the case. MB stays below 29°C all time. Let's hope the zalman was mounted incorrectly at the shop, and I will do it correctly when the AS5 arrives. :wink:

For the rest my rig is running great. You had your hand into that also, thx. Only another more quite psu with all correct connections and those cpu temps down, and everything is perfect. Man, I learned a lot latest 2 months... :wink:
March 22, 2007 8:24:30 PM

I've seen 85C listed before in some Intel materials as a maximum storage temp for Core 2 processors, though I can't find that reference now. If that's right, it would seem to suggest 85C should not be exceeded for operation either.

Like you I have also seen suggestions that the quads are designed to handle higher temps, but I haven't been able to pin down any definitive information.
March 23, 2007 4:56:45 AM

Kibosh wrote:

> So yes, if your core temperatures are lower then this at full load, you are 100% >safe. But this isn't with me. They easely go up to 80°C at full load.

>Now Core-Temp says that the Tjunction is 100°C. So 80°C would be warm but still >safe, if core-temp is correct.

Well you are braver than me with your $1000. You might be safe too, but I just don't know. I haven't found that kind of info in Intel docs. I would like to find out.

May I ask what are your core voltage & cpu speed & cooling arrangements at 80C?

I am running a QX6700 at a core voltage SET to 1.45V but MEASURED as 1.34 V.
I am running the cpu speed at 3450 MHz. I am using aggressive air cooling with a Thermalright Ultra-120 heatsink & a HS 120mm fan that is rated about 115 cfm. & with a case modified to use two 120mm case fans in the front & a lot of open vent area in the back.This case is very open & has probably 175 cfm blasting straight through from front to back. I also use a duct to carry air directly from a front case fan to the heatsink fan so no warm case air can get into the heatsink. Only room temperature air can get into the heatsink. With these aggressive arrangements, I can keep all four core temps at 65 C or lower at 100% cpu usage up to room temperatures of about 73F or 74F. This computer has been running as I described for about 3 or 4 weeks with no crashes & no detected errors when running Einstein@Home numbercrunching. Einstein@Home checks every result for errors.

>I don't understand that formula to calculate the Tjunction that you gave me, so sry >about that. But the question remains, is Core Temp correct?

OK, I have compared the output of TAT & CoreTemp & Fanspeed. TAT & Corespeed (the latest version) give the same temperatures for all the four cores, So I think both are right.

But Fanspeed (the latest version is 4.3.2) gives temperatures for all four cores that are exactly 15 deg C lower than the other two programs. I think what this means is that Intel changed the constant called "Tjunction" in the formula to calculate temperture from 85 C for Core 2 Duo cpus to 100 C for QX6700 cpus. The author of the CoreTemp program has already incorporated this Intel change in the latest Coretemp, but the author of Fanspeed has not. So Fanspeed is low by (100-85)=15 degrees C..


>Does that program TAT give a maximum? I can't run that on my nVidia board.

TAT gives only four temperatures, one for each core. Nothing else. CoreTemp also gives something he calls Tjunction=100C for QX6700s. That is not anything Coretemp measures, but it is used by Coretemp to get the core temperatures.

I now have a guess as to what Intel does with that value of TjunctionMAX=100C.

I will try to dig more info about this out of Intel docs later. Here I am just going to write my guess.

Intel started several years ago to protect their cpus from very careless users who either turned on the power to their MB with NO heatsink installed on the cpu, or with a heatsink but no thermal grease. They made Intel cpus detect abnormally high temperatures & just shut themselves down almost instantly when this happened. Otherwise, we were told that a cpu would fail in less than 10 seconds if powered up with this careless installation.

Now my GUESS is that Intel is using TjunctionMAX=100C (for QX6700s) as their instant shutdown temperature.

If that is true, then it seems that anything about 100C is regarded as potentially dangerous to the cpu in the very short term. A core temp as reported by TAT or Coretemp software less than 100C is safe in the short term. But there is still the question of long term reliability at core temperatures. Will the life of a cpu get shorter & shorter as the core temperature gets closer to 100C?

Intel knows but I don't.

walts
March 23, 2007 4:05:17 PM

Walts:

Everything is on stock settings with me. And don't worry, I am scared about my 1000euro's investment of my cpu. That's why I started this thread. To find out what the real temps are for the quad-core. Also ordered already some AS5 for remounting the Zalman, because something is wrong.

For now everything is reasonable safe, saying that I don't run Prime95 off course. Also I've noticed a 10°C difference between cores, so that's to much also I guess.

For your question. I have the basic air-cooling. A zalman 9700LED. 2x 120mm fans blowing in. 1x120mm fan at the back and 1x120mm in the psu which also sucks out at the back-top. Air flow is good in my case because even with the 8800GTX in SLI, the mobo stays beyond 29°C, even during gaming. Room temp is here 20°C. It is also a very open case, the Coolermaster Stacker 830.

If you find something in those Intel papers, pls let me know.

Like I've heard the cpu's are build for 10 years if you keep below the max. But I've found only the Tcase and that is 65°C for the quad. But if you look at it. It's 60°C for a dual-core. Now the quad spreads the heat of two dual-cores to that same heat-spreader and they only raised the Tcase by ~5°C. Not much. :?

There is also another thing I don't understand. People say that older pentiums had bigger TDP's. But those older cpu's had smaller coolers? 8O And I see many, me too :wink: , having trouble to keep the 130W of the quad cool. Also in the reviews of coolers they mostly use older processors. I hope someone will test some coolers with the quad very soon.

Also, if you take now for example that Tuniq Tower 120. If you look in the faq to the compatibility (what a word) list. There is no quad-core in there.

http://www.tuniq.com.tw/Support/faq/faq04.htm

Hope you guy's find something, I'm still looking but untill now, nothing.

Kibosh
March 24, 2007 1:48:20 AM

Kibosh wrote:

>Everything is on stock settings with me.

Oh, I really missed your reason for concern.

OK, for what it's worth, I just shut down my QX6700 & restored stock Vcore and speed and re-booted. Then, with all 4 cores running 100% on E@H I get a maximum core temp of 55C running Coretemp software. That is with a room temp of 24C, so I have 31 C above ambient on my hottest core. My coolest core is about 4 C or 5 C cooler.

Under these same stock conditions, the ASUS PCProbe software reports the "Core temperature" is 31 C and the MB temperature is 29C at 100% load. I regard that ASUS report of "Core temp" as complete nonsense. The ASUS report of MB temperature might possibly be about right.

I am probably running a heatsink more aggressive (& more noisy) than yours, but your report of 80C core temp at 100% load does look like something's seriously wrong there to me too. If you pull the heatsink off, be sure to examine the appearance of the thermal grease on the heatsink & on the cpu & tell us what you see. Usually it's obvious from the appearance whether there was good contact over the entire surface.

walt
March 24, 2007 10:43:47 AM

Quote:
Kibosh wrote:

>Everything is on stock settings with me.

Oh, I really missed your reason for concern.

OK, for what it's worth, I just shut down my QX6700 & restored stock Vcore and speed and re-booted. Then, with all 4 cores running 100% on E@H I get a maximum core temp of 55C running Coretemp software. That is with a room temp of 24C, so I have 31 C above ambient on my hottest core. My coolest core is about 4 C or 5 C cooler.

Under these same stock conditions, the ASUS PCProbe software reports the "Core temperature" is 31 C and the MB temperature is 29C at 100% load. I regard that ASUS report of "Core temp" as complete nonsense. The ASUS report of MB temperature might possibly be about right.

I am probably running a heatsink more aggressive (& more noisy) than yours, but your report of 80C core temp at 100% load does look like something's seriously wrong there to me too. If you pull the heatsink off, be sure to examine the appearance of the thermal grease on the heatsink & on the cpu & tell us what you see. Usually it's obvious from the appearance whether there was good contact over the entire surface.

walt
Can you test it also with Prime95? Run the test with small FFT's. When I use OCCT my temps aren't that high also. Prime really makes it work when using the small FFT's test.

PC Probe doesn't give the Core temperature but the heatsink temp. So I think PC Probe is correct also. Core-temp = Tjunction and PC Probe = Tcase. I think :?

I can't remove the heatsink yet, because I'm still waiting for the AS5 to arrive. It's still in backorder. Any idea also how to clean the paste that's already on? I forgot to order the cleaning product. Maybe I call them to see if they can still add it to my order, but I don't want it to be delayed even more.

Thanx already

Kibosh
March 24, 2007 3:20:48 PM

Wel, I've been to the shop and while I was there that Tunic Tower was screaming to me: Buy me, buy me, buy me... :wink:

So here are the results:

While running OCCT



While running Prime: Notice the difference.. 8O



And last while typing this:



What you guy's think. These look more normal to me. No more that 10°C difference between cores and it doesn't jump up right to 80°C within 10s running Prime.
These temps are now accectable I think, but I think I still won't do overclocking.
March 24, 2007 5:36:02 PM

Kibosh wrote:

>Can you test it also with Prime95? Run the test with small FFT's. When I use >OCCT my temps aren't that high also. Prime really makes it work when using the >small FFT's test.

I know you're right that some numbercrunching runs hotter than others even when both are at 100%. I've never run Prime95 but I'll try it for a comparison. I notice the Prime95 web site offers both a 64-bit version called p64c2414 and a 32-bit version called p95c2414. I guess the 64-bit version runs faster & hotter? Since this is entirely for comparison, I suppose we should compare the same version. Which version number are you running?

> PC Probe doesn't give the Core temperature but the heatsink temp. So I think PC > >Probe is correct also. Core-temp = Tjunction and PC Probe = Tcase. I think

I sure wish or hope you're right that PCProbe gives a Tcase, but before you decide, let me give you the rest of the data.

I have run ASUS P5B motherboards with two different cpus: a Core 2 Duo 6600 and a QX6700. Here are the temperatures with both overclocked & running 100% with E@H:

cpu................................... CoreTemp............................PCProbe
----------.............................------------------------................-------------------------------
Core 2 Duo.........................56 C....................................66 C
QX6700..............................65 C....................................40 C

No, I have not mixed up those numbers. PCProbe is reporting 10 C hotter than CoreTemp for the Core 2 Duo 6600 cpu and PCProbe is reporting 25 C cooler than CoreTemp for the QX6700. The room temp is the same for all results. I just can't make no sense of them reported temps. I believe CoreTemp because it agrees very well with TAT. Also I think 4 cores are likely to run hotter than 2 cores, which seems consistent with CoreTemp but not with PCProbe. I CLAIM that PCProbe is reporting garbage. I can't find any ASUS docs saying what they CLAIM it is reporting.

> Any idea also how to clean the paste that's already on?

Depends on what sort of stuff you are trying to get off.

Arctic Silver does also recommend "isopropyl alcohol" [also called "isopropanol" or "rubbing alcohol"]. I can buy that here in any pharmacy at 91% purity or some lower purity, which I think is around 74%. The rest is always water. If you use this, get the highest % you can find. Since it contains some water, it is probably best not to slosh it all over your motherboard, & give it a chance to dry before continuing.

Arctic Silver also recommends acetone, which I can buy here at a hardware store. But the acetone is not pure & Arctic Silver says it will leave a residue which you should then remove with rubbing alcohol.

Both of the above solvents are flammable, so use good ventilation. If you smoke while using either, you're nutz.

Arctic Silver also recommends lint-free cloth, which I can buy here at an optical store.

I have applied & removed Arctic Silver 5 several times & it was not difficult.

The older "phase change pads" have the consistency of bubble gum & were hard to get completely off no matter what I have used. What I do with them is to start by trying to scrape off as much as possible with my thumb nail. Scraping with anything hard will scratch the surface. After I get tired scraping, I try the rubbing alcohol & a clean cloth & rub & rub & rub. After I get tired rubbing, I go back to scraping. And so on.

walt
March 24, 2007 6:55:16 PM

Hey,

I'm using Prime 95 Version 25.1. I'm guessing it's 32bit because I'm running XP 32bit.

Also, notice my post above. I've just installed the Tuniq Tower 120 and my temps are now what I think they should be. I've putted pictures in the post so you all can take a look. I hope now things are better with my quad. I mean, normal, because they surely are much better. I'm running much cooler.

You are right about PC Probe II: Strange numbers there. Again something Asus screwed up then. They are doing more off that lately. I think that the company is going backwards instead of forwards. I've heard so many good things about their mobo's, but I didn't see those yet. The support is zero, that I know already. They should hire Avias for that. He knows more then Asus support crew together. :wink:

I'm looking forward of your test results so I can compare them against my temps now. By the way, I used toilet paper to clean off the cpu :lol:  . It was a tip from the shop owner.

Oh, and before I forget. I've read in the guide of Artic, that the AS5 needs a run-in period. Do I need to take care of something for that? Or can I use my pc like always? And what are the effects after this run-in period?
March 28, 2007 5:18:14 PM

Quote:
oh man i hope i could help, but i cant, just wanted to keep alive your post until you get answer, if its usefull 4 you i have the kandalf lcs only for the qx6700, idle temp(hot core) is 24c shown in bios since i have yet fail to find a core temp reading software for vista ultimate 64 8O


I have an Asus P5B Deluxe mobo with Vista Home Premium 64-bit and Asus PC Probe works perfectly.

If you don't have an Asus mobo I can't help tough.

Question, does OCCT works with Vista 64-bit? I'll install it to test my OC if that's the case.

I know that CPU burn-in 1.01 does work for it, but it doesn't report any temperature. All I know is that with 2 instance of it working at 100% for 2+ hours I have no problem at all and my temps stay below 40C at all time (38-39 exactly) according to PC Probe. Not bad I'd say. Same when encoding DivX to DVD with Roxio Media Creator 9, altough it never takes more than 15 minutes to complete the encoding.

To walt, when I tested TAT under XP, my temps were within 2-3C of PC Probe and never exceeded 41C. So I'd say PC Probe is a pretty good indications of the cpu temps. Any new of an upcoming TAT that works with Vista?
April 10, 2007 11:40:09 PM

I've tried looking for reviews of various air coolers on the QX6700 but can't find any. I found one at Anandtech testing various units on the X6800 but my understanding is the heating characteristics might be different on the Quad and therefore not the same.

Has anyone read any tests of air coolers specifically on the Quad?
April 16, 2007 12:35:16 PM

Hmmm... I'm very confused!

I've just got a QX6700 on a ASUS P5W-DH motherboard.

The bios is reporting the CPU temp at 80 degrees, PcProbe is reporting it at 70 degrees, and CoreTemp and TAT are reporting my hottest core to be 50! All this is at idle.

Which of these should I listen to? I'm only using the boxed heatsink and fan at the moment, as I'm not trying to overclock it yet, but it is still only slightly warm to the touch - does that mean that I've got a faulty sensor somewhere, or is the processor broken, and I need to get a replacement?

Can anyone help?!
April 16, 2007 1:27:18 PM

Quote:
I'm really a bit stuck about that cpu temperature thing. It surely not the temperature in the case. MB stays below 29°C all time. Let's hope the zalman was mounted incorrectly at the shop, and I will do it correctly when the AS5 arrives. :wink:
I have the very similar problem with Core2Duo, take a look here http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/C2D-L2-stepping-temps-readings-ftopict232725.html and here http://www.alcpu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=243

As Intel says Tjunction is software invisible, so 85 or 100 is just guessing. And the only thing to do is to activate Thermal Monitor and provoke throttling - then we will know at which shown temp it will start...
April 30, 2007 2:46:08 AM

Perhaps this will help. i have had my QX6700 based Overdrive PC for about two weeks. It is over clocked to 3.4GHz. It has a 3 year warranty

The Temp utility is Core Temp Beta 0.94.

The Core temps range from 54-58 C no load.

using my own CPU loading programs to get 90% continuous CPU load, after 15 minutes the reading was 80 C for the hottest core and 75 C for the coolest core. The cooling is air cooled with variable fans. After 45 minutes of 90% CPU loading The hottest core was 75C.

Since the guys at OPC push things right to the wall you may want to keep your Core Temp Beta reading to 80 degrees C or less.
May 2, 2007 1:14:35 PM

I seem t be having similar problem. running this:
Vista Ultimate x64
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Intel Q6600 CPU (Stock settings with stock HSF)
4Gb Corsair C2X1024-6400C4 (Voltage changed to required voltage as per manufacturers instructions)
POV Geforce 8800GTX stock
Antec P180 case with 2 120mm fans top and back fan on front and hdd's and PSU in bottom compartment with fan between.

this is what speed fan shows as my temps at idle


as u can imagine i'm as worried as you are kibosh £500+ on a cpu and i cant get those two temps to go lower. The question is do i have anything to worry about or should i be looking at investing in some liquid nitrogen cooling system lol.
May 2, 2007 6:50:26 PM

The Q6600 uses the DTS to report temperatures through the PECI and the thermal diode is no longer used or disabled in the newer packages.
by default this funtion is disabled in bios and needs to be enabled under the cpu section in bios.
the bios revision also has to support this through updates.
this may or may not change your readings in speed fan but should report correctly in ASUS probe.
let us know if this corrects the reading so I can document this for my research and give feedback to ASUS.
May 2, 2007 8:40:07 PM

I have tried PC Probe however it beeps constantly when i do get it to run on vista u;ltimate x64 took some doing. it also reports that a temp is very high hence the alarm. i dont remember the actual reading but i would think both speed fan and asus pc probe were showing the same readings i could reinstall it again if you want but like i said pc probe and vista ultimate x64 don't really get on.
May 13, 2007 3:12:55 AM

At room temperature 80F, with the side of my case off and a 10 inch diameter fan blowing directly into my machine, my QX6800 idles at 50 50 46 46 (Core Temp 0.95). With Orthos running with affinity set to core 1 and 2, and another Orthos running with affinity set to core 3 and 4, both using Small FFTs, 100% cpu utilization for 10 minutes is showing 70 70 66 66.

I am running at normal speed (no over-clocking) 2.93GHz @1.3v and FSB 1066 @1.2v

My QX6800 is liquid cooled. I have been trying to find out from somebody, anybody if these are acceptable and if so, by how much. That way I can start over-clocking and feel good about it.

Edit:

My best 3DMark06 score so far has been 12963. I just ran it again with the Orthos copies running as described above (100% cpu on all 4 cores) and scored a 11522.

My Core Temp is still sitting at 69 69 65 65 after almost 30 minutes of 100% cpu speed on all four cores.
May 13, 2007 9:32:53 AM

ok update for anyone still following this.
it would seem that 2 of the six temp reading may be done purely by calculations from within the bios not from actual sensor readings. i will show you what i mean. here is an image of speedfan before i updated my mother board bios. (my mother board is an ASUS P5W DH Deluxe.)

Before: http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/reddragon2k2/sp...

and once i updated my bios to the latest version. ( a daunting process indeed lol)

After: http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/reddragon2k2/sp...

what you will notice is that the readin in Speedfan for CPU dropped some 20+ degrees just by updating the bios. Still cant get the AUX temp down though but i beleive this may be changed with a further BIOS release from ASUS.
Since i run VIsta x64 i have a limited number of programs which will run on my system to check temps. Speedfan is the only one i have found so far that does not error upon opening.
I am not saying i am 100% correct but i urge you to check for yourself. If there is a Bios update available for your Mobo and you are brave enough. Upgrade to the latest BIOS your reading for what Speedfan calls CPU and AUX may drop with just a BIOS update.
!