AVSForum Censorship
Last response: in Home Theatre
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
"politically incorrect" information. Here is a post by a broadcast
engineer which describes his reaction to such "moderating". You can see
by the conduct he limited himself to that this sends a signal to all
posters to hedge their post and not to comment even with "facts" that
moderators do not want to hear.
Be aware that you are not hearing all the facts when looking for
information there. Some post are deleted some are attacked but most are
not even posted by those who have been intimidated. As Matt concludes
below he will only "disseminate information that everyone wants to hear".
Matt Harris wrote...
Mark would know much more than I as to the timeframe we will be
increasing power. I'll defer any definitive date to his knowledge, as
he's closer to the budget approval pen than I.
I am happy to report though that it looks like the problems we've been
experiencing with our WB HD receiver have been ironed out with the
latest firmware upgrades. Expect to see prime time WB in HD (what they
provide us, at least) most nights. I'll be connecting the HD passthrough
equipment to our automation system this week, so the transition to HD
should be a little more reliable. Right now, we're relying on our MCO to
remember to press "the button" .
I've actually been lurking here for 2 years or so - I even made some
contributions, but was scolded by the forum admins and others. Seems
that some opinions are frowned upon, and even some facts, such as the
8VSB versus COFDM study that I conveyed are frowned upon even more, so I
respectfully left the forum. I decided to show up again to offer any
assistance to our viewers though, maybe time has taught us all the
facts. So, this time around, I'll be more politically correct and only
disseminate information that everyone wants to hear .
-Matt
Matt Harris
Assistant Chief Engineer
WLFL/WRDC TV
AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
"politically incorrect" information. Here is a post by a broadcast
engineer which describes his reaction to such "moderating". You can see
by the conduct he limited himself to that this sends a signal to all
posters to hedge their post and not to comment even with "facts" that
moderators do not want to hear.
Be aware that you are not hearing all the facts when looking for
information there. Some post are deleted some are attacked but most are
not even posted by those who have been intimidated. As Matt concludes
below he will only "disseminate information that everyone wants to hear".
Matt Harris wrote...
Mark would know much more than I as to the timeframe we will be
increasing power. I'll defer any definitive date to his knowledge, as
he's closer to the budget approval pen than I.
I am happy to report though that it looks like the problems we've been
experiencing with our WB HD receiver have been ironed out with the
latest firmware upgrades. Expect to see prime time WB in HD (what they
provide us, at least) most nights. I'll be connecting the HD passthrough
equipment to our automation system this week, so the transition to HD
should be a little more reliable. Right now, we're relying on our MCO to
remember to press "the button" .
I've actually been lurking here for 2 years or so - I even made some
contributions, but was scolded by the forum admins and others. Seems
that some opinions are frowned upon, and even some facts, such as the
8VSB versus COFDM study that I conveyed are frowned upon even more, so I
respectfully left the forum. I decided to show up again to offer any
assistance to our viewers though, maybe time has taught us all the
facts. So, this time around, I'll be more politically correct and only
disseminate information that everyone wants to hear .
-Matt
Matt Harris
Assistant Chief Engineer
WLFL/WRDC TV
More about : avsforum censorship
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
>AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
>"politically incorrect" information.
Of course YOUR definition of "politically incorrect" would be the censorship of
lies, embellishments and distortions....in other words BOB, your posts.
>AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
>"politically incorrect" information.
Of course YOUR definition of "politically incorrect" would be the censorship of
lies, embellishments and distortions....in other words BOB, your posts.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
south Florida.
I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
tuner seems steep.
I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
free??? I wouldn't.
For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
trouble.
From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
south Florida.
I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
tuner seems steep.
I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
free??? I wouldn't.
For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
trouble.
From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
John Doe wrote:
>
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
>
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
>
> For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
> modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
> does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
> conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
> expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
> trouble.
>
> From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
> be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
JD:
I see you bought a CM 3671 Top of the Line
VHF/UHF/FM antenna on a 40 ft pole....
Very good selection... With a Rotor too...
Now why would you put a preamp on such a good
combo antenna and 'Overdrive' the Digital Tuner
with too much signal for the close in channels??
That may be the FOX-HD reception problem.....
As for the low Buck Digital Tuner.. Walmart at $198
is the leader in price.
John Doe wrote:
>
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
>
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
>
> For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
> modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
> does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
> conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
> expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
> trouble.
>
> From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
> be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
JD:
I see you bought a CM 3671 Top of the Line
VHF/UHF/FM antenna on a 40 ft pole....
Very good selection... With a Rotor too...
Now why would you put a preamp on such a good
combo antenna and 'Overdrive' the Digital Tuner
with too much signal for the close in channels??
That may be the FOX-HD reception problem.....
As for the low Buck Digital Tuner.. Walmart at $198
is the leader in price.
Related ressources
- DTV reception is much more difficult than analog - Forum
- What's better, TV or Monitor? - Forum
- AVSForum hinders HDTV the most - Forum
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
"John Doe" <me@here.com> wrote:
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
is the transmitter.
Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
"John Doe" <me@here.com> wrote:
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
is the transmitter.
Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
John Doe wrote:
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
>
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
>
> For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
> modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
> does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
> conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
> expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
> trouble.
>
> From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
> be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
>
>
Sales of COFDM receivers in the UK for the second quarter look like just
over 550,000. About the same as for the two quarters before that. I
think they will hit a million receivers sold in the fourth quarter this
year with reports of sold out stores still common. They will have 5.5
million receivers sold in the UK if that holds up in just the last two
years. That would be six times greater in the US or around 33 million
receivers sold.
If we had allowed COFDM in the summer of 2000 we would probably have
over 50 million digital receivers sold by now instead of a mandate that
seems to be having little affect.
That being said the 5th generation LG (Zenith) receiver is good enough
so that a similar sales pace can now occur in the US. Unfortunately five
years later. As I remember the biggest reason given for not switching to
COFDM was a predicted delay of some two years. There would have been NO
delay with COFDM and there has been a five year delay with 8-VSB.
There is NO 8-VSB receiver on the market today that should ever have
been permitted to be sold.
I was talking to a Midwest cable company last week that was desperate
for a good 8-VSB receiver and hoped I could help him get a 5th gen
receiver. He has been though all the receivers available trying to find
one that will allow him to receive and rebroadcast on his cable plant
local channels. He is still delivering analog snowy signals to his
customers because they prefer snow to dropouts.
COFDM is so far superior to even 5th gen 8-VSB receivers that the two
should not exist side by side in the same technological age. 8-VSB is
still a dinosaur and should be extinct. It is as far as most of the
world is concerned.
John Doe wrote:
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through 360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
>
> I smell a rat. No one can deny that digital satellite and cable companies
> have motive to force broadcasters to use a poor modulation scheme. I'm not
> a conspiracy freak, but I don't think Ken Lay, and Neil Bush should be
> walking free either. How many would pay DTV, etc. $10-$20 per month for HD
> programming if they could get their local stations in HD over the air for
> free??? I wouldn't.
>
> For those in this group who claim that VSB is just as good as any other
> modulation, I have several questions. Under which adverse signal conditions
> does VSB outperform the competion? Could we see a table with adverse signal
> conditon 1-x comparing each modulation scheme? I don't profess to be an
> expert in modulation or RF, but if VSB is the best, then broadcasters are in
> trouble.
>
> From the sales rates of digital tuners in countries using COFDM, they can't
> be as bad as the VSB tuner I tried.
>
>
Sales of COFDM receivers in the UK for the second quarter look like just
over 550,000. About the same as for the two quarters before that. I
think they will hit a million receivers sold in the fourth quarter this
year with reports of sold out stores still common. They will have 5.5
million receivers sold in the UK if that holds up in just the last two
years. That would be six times greater in the US or around 33 million
receivers sold.
If we had allowed COFDM in the summer of 2000 we would probably have
over 50 million digital receivers sold by now instead of a mandate that
seems to be having little affect.
That being said the 5th generation LG (Zenith) receiver is good enough
so that a similar sales pace can now occur in the US. Unfortunately five
years later. As I remember the biggest reason given for not switching to
COFDM was a predicted delay of some two years. There would have been NO
delay with COFDM and there has been a five year delay with 8-VSB.
There is NO 8-VSB receiver on the market today that should ever have
been permitted to be sold.
I was talking to a Midwest cable company last week that was desperate
for a good 8-VSB receiver and hoped I could help him get a 5th gen
receiver. He has been though all the receivers available trying to find
one that will allow him to receive and rebroadcast on his cable plant
local channels. He is still delivering analog snowy signals to his
customers because they prefer snow to dropouts.
COFDM is so far superior to even 5th gen 8-VSB receivers that the two
should not exist side by side in the same technological age. 8-VSB is
still a dinosaur and should be extinct. It is as far as most of the
world is concerned.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
"John Doe" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through
360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including
stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with
a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because
of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner
price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
Which generation tuner do you have? If you have a third generation then
there are several problems with multipath, overdrive and in your case the
probable problem, co-channel analog interference. If there is an analog
signal on the same frequency even if it's barely visible in the snow of an
analog TV the digital channel will not lock. 40 foot towers with antenna
amps lend themselves to problems of this sort. When we go all digital that
problem will go away.
The SIR-T351 is a 4th generation Samsung (Has QAM for cable unscrambled
reception) and you shouldn't have much of a problem with it ( I have read
here that there was a "firmware upgrade" to this model that made them more
reliable). You can make this tuner act up but it's more a matter of having
a really BAD antenna installation (worst case).
5th generation tuners are supposed to be able to lock on reflected ghosty
signals, to lock with rabbit ears to (some models) interface with external
rabit ears that have a controller capable of selecting the best antenna from
multiple rabbit ear antennas. They should be available at the end of this
year. I think LG electronics has one available now, a top end model with
DVD recorder built in for $700.
Walmart has a 4th generation tuner for $198.00
"John Doe" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> I recently tried a Samsung VSB tuner, but could only receive 2 out of 3
> local stations. I have a rotored channel master 3671B antenna on a 40'
> tower using a wingard preamp. I could get the local PBS, and CBS station,
> but FOX would not display even though I had over 70% signal strength. The
> FOX station is broadcasting full power and I rotated the antenna through
360
> degrees. On analog, I can easily get 8 stations clearly including
stations
> from Jacksonville at 68 miles. Under favorable atmospheric conditions, I
> can get 20+ stations from 100+ miles including stations from Georgia, and
> south Florida.
>
> I borrowed the Samsung tuner for testing from a friend who bought it as an
> open box return(imagine that) at Circuit City. When I went to look for a
> VSB tuner at local stores, I found they were not available. Speaking with
a
> salesperson at the local Best Buy, he said they didn't carry them because
of
> poor sales, and high return rate. In looking for a tuner online, the best
> price I can find is $299 for the LG LST-4200A. I thought the HD tuner
price
> was supposed to be cheap to help people with the transition of analog to
> digital. For those who payed $299 for their TV, the price for a digital
> tuner seems steep.
Which generation tuner do you have? If you have a third generation then
there are several problems with multipath, overdrive and in your case the
probable problem, co-channel analog interference. If there is an analog
signal on the same frequency even if it's barely visible in the snow of an
analog TV the digital channel will not lock. 40 foot towers with antenna
amps lend themselves to problems of this sort. When we go all digital that
problem will go away.
The SIR-T351 is a 4th generation Samsung (Has QAM for cable unscrambled
reception) and you shouldn't have much of a problem with it ( I have read
here that there was a "firmware upgrade" to this model that made them more
reliable). You can make this tuner act up but it's more a matter of having
a really BAD antenna installation (worst case).
5th generation tuners are supposed to be able to lock on reflected ghosty
signals, to lock with rabbit ears to (some models) interface with external
rabit ears that have a controller capable of selecting the best antenna from
multiple rabbit ear antennas. They should be available at the end of this
year. I think LG electronics has one available now, a top end model with
DVD recorder built in for $700.
Walmart has a 4th generation tuner for $198.00
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2aC2d.3098$gG4.742@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
: "politically incorrect" information.
================
It is just YOU, Bob.
They do not tolerate your lies and your fantasy world.
"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2aC2d.3098$gG4.742@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
: AVSForum censors, scolds and deletes post and those who post
: "politically incorrect" information.
================
It is just YOU, Bob.
They do not tolerate your lies and your fantasy world.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
"Dennis Mayer" <Polaris1@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:4151F3C9.A789DF46@execpc.com...
>
>
> JD:
>
> I see you bought a CM 3671 Top of the Line
> VHF/UHF/FM antenna on a 40 ft pole....
>
> Very good selection... With a Rotor too...
>
> Now why would you put a preamp on such a good
Because without it I loose 2/3 of my stations. There is enough loss in the
70' coax run, to make the channels unviewable.
>
> combo antenna and 'Overdrive' the Digital Tuner
>
> with too much signal for the close in channels??
>
> That may be the FOX-HD reception problem.....
You may have something there, the local ABC analog station ghosts on other
analog stations as high as channel 53.
> As for the low Buck Digital Tuner.. Walmart at $198
>
> is the leader in price.
But is a 4th generation receiver. That receiver uses the ATI demodulation
chip which is 4th gen. I wanted a 5th gen receiver to see if it helped with
my problem.
I am also looking at high end UHF antennas with high F/B ratio to block as
much of channel 20 as possible.
"Dennis Mayer" <Polaris1@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:4151F3C9.A789DF46@execpc.com...
>
>
> JD:
>
> I see you bought a CM 3671 Top of the Line
> VHF/UHF/FM antenna on a 40 ft pole....
>
> Very good selection... With a Rotor too...
>
> Now why would you put a preamp on such a good
Because without it I loose 2/3 of my stations. There is enough loss in the
70' coax run, to make the channels unviewable.
>
> combo antenna and 'Overdrive' the Digital Tuner
>
> with too much signal for the close in channels??
>
> That may be the FOX-HD reception problem.....
You may have something there, the local ABC analog station ghosts on other
analog stations as high as channel 53.
> As for the low Buck Digital Tuner.. Walmart at $198
>
> is the leader in price.
But is a 4th generation receiver. That receiver uses the ATI demodulation
chip which is 4th gen. I wanted a 5th gen receiver to see if it helped with
my problem.
I am also looking at high end UHF antennas with high F/B ratio to block as
much of channel 20 as possible.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:I8ydnU9N8oRkTc_cRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> Which generation tuner do you have? If you have a third generation then
> there are several problems with multipath, overdrive and in your case the
> probable problem, co-channel analog interference. If there is an analog
> signal on the same frequency even if it's barely visible in the snow of an
> analog TV the digital channel will not lock. 40 foot towers with antenna
> amps lend themselves to problems of this sort. When we go all digital
> that
> problem will go away.
I believe the model number was SIR-T151.
"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:I8ydnU9N8oRkTc_cRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> Which generation tuner do you have? If you have a third generation then
> there are several problems with multipath, overdrive and in your case the
> probable problem, co-channel analog interference. If there is an analog
> signal on the same frequency even if it's barely visible in the snow of an
> analog TV the digital channel will not lock. 40 foot towers with antenna
> amps lend themselves to problems of this sort. When we go all digital
> that
> problem will go away.
I believe the model number was SIR-T151.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Tomlin" <bruce#fanboy.net@127.0.0.1>
Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: poor VSB experience
> In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
> Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
> Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
> 10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
> transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
> local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
> DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
> to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
According to their license, they are 500,000 watts. At 26 miles, I get 70%
signal strength on CH31, but will not lock.
>
> The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
> is the transmitter.
>
> Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
> signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
It may be my local analog channel 20 overdriving on CH31.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Tomlin" <bruce#fanboy.net@127.0.0.1>
Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: poor VSB experience
> In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
> Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
> Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
> 10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
> transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
> local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
> DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
> to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
According to their license, they are 500,000 watts. At 26 miles, I get 70%
signal strength on CH31, but will not lock.
>
> The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
> is the transmitter.
>
> Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
> signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
It may be my local analog channel 20 overdriving on CH31.
Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)
John Doe wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Tomlin" <bruce#fanboy.net@127.0.0.1>
> Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:57 AM
> Subject: Re: poor VSB experience
>
> > In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
> > Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
> > Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
> > 10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
> > transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
> > local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
> > DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
> > to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
>
> According to their license, they are 500,000 watts. At 26 miles, I get 70%
> signal strength on CH31, but will not lock.
>
> >
> > The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
> > is the transmitter.
> >
> > Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
> > signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
>
> It may be my local analog channel 20 overdriving on CH31.
Turning off the Pre Amp and removing it from the antenna circuit
are two different 'animals'....
IF you can't remove the Amp up on the pole....
Then turn your rotorized antenna 180 degrees
exactly from the FOX-HD tower.... In other
words use the back side, lesser gain of the antenna to
pull in the 26 mile out FOX-HD Tower....
Two caveats:
Lets hope there is NO adjacent chan next to FOX-HD with
full Power.... And let's hope that there is no Full Power
station channel wise at the 180 Deg aim location...
John Doe wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Tomlin" <bruce#fanboy.net@127.0.0.1>
> Newsgroups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv
> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:57 AM
> Subject: Re: poor VSB experience
>
> > In article <cisq9k$14mm$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>,
> > Are you sure that your local stations are broadcasting at full power?
> > Many stations, maybe one-third to one-half, are still broadcasting at
> > 10-15% of their full licensed DTV power. It's not cheap to run two
> > transmitters at full power. (My own personal conspiracy theory with the
> > local Fox station is that they are broadcasting at less than 1% power on
> > DTV because they want to switch over their old VHF allocation directly
> > to digital, so why spend lots of money on a transmitter now?)
>
> According to their license, they are 500,000 watts. At 26 miles, I get 70%
> signal strength on CH31, but will not lock.
>
> >
> > The best tuner and antenna in the world won't help much if the problem
> > is the transmitter.
> >
> > Also, try taking OUT the pre-amp. Amps can often distort the digital
> > signal, actually making reception worse than without them.
>
> It may be my local analog channel 20 overdriving on CH31.
Turning off the Pre Amp and removing it from the antenna circuit
are two different 'animals'....
IF you can't remove the Amp up on the pole....
Then turn your rotorized antenna 180 degrees
exactly from the FOX-HD tower.... In other
words use the back side, lesser gain of the antenna to
pull in the 26 mile out FOX-HD Tower....
Two caveats:
Lets hope there is NO adjacent chan next to FOX-HD with
full Power.... And let's hope that there is no Full Power
station channel wise at the 180 Deg aim location...
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