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AMD ahead of NVIDIA

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  • Graphics Cards
  • AMD
  • Nvidia
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 17, 2007 12:33:10 AM

Check out this ppl. This is really interesting.
For all of those waiting for the R600 this could prove it was worth it!

AMD R6xx to be 65nm

More about : amd ahead nvidia

March 17, 2007 12:39:20 AM

if it is 65nm this might solve the problem of R600's massive energy consumption. Of course I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt as it's from the inquirer but it would be a good reason for the ATI being behind nVidia for nearly 6 months. If it isn't too expensive I'll probably get one myself :) 
March 17, 2007 12:46:11 AM

Should decrease temperatures, improve energy efficiency.

However, I've seen this link posted already....I think 8O
Related resources
March 17, 2007 12:48:16 AM

if its true then it'll be good for AMD, cause the current power consumption details are the sort that make you wonder if you need your own power station to run your pc.
March 17, 2007 12:57:04 AM

I'm no fan of AMD or ATI but if this is better then the 8800GTX then maybe i'll get one.
March 17, 2007 1:49:02 AM

Hehe, maybe I'll get two and crossfire them on my 40A PSU :roll:
March 17, 2007 4:06:46 AM

Quote:
I'm no fan of AMD or ATI but if this is better then the 8800GTX then maybe i'll get one.


8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX
March 17, 2007 4:54:05 AM

What was the name of that song? Goes something along the line of 'speculation can be fun' or some such. Well something like that...
March 17, 2007 5:04:15 AM

The R600 cards can be compared to whatever the top nvidia card of the moment is. So, if the 8800gtx is still the top card, that is what it will be compared to regardless of when it was released. Same way as Core 2 is compared to K8 even though K8 is how old? It's top compared to top regardless of release date and I don't think anyone in here is saying otherwise, it just happens to be that the 8800gtx is the highend card atm.

wes
March 17, 2007 6:59:01 AM

Quote:
can you die shrink and have the chips in the stores in 5 months?
im not so sure this one is true


let us just hope so.
March 17, 2007 7:24:09 AM

Quote:
can you die shrink and have the chips in the stores in 5 months?
im not so sure this one is true


how do u know they weren't testing 65nm r600's along side the 80um ones....and decided to skip the 80um that would have launched already and go with the 65um

the first ATHLON was 250um and like 2 months later the 180un athlons were out.

it happens
March 17, 2007 7:37:24 AM

Ok, this is definatly worth the extra wait!!!
March 17, 2007 7:44:00 AM

Quote:
I'm no fan of AMD or ATI but if this is better then the 8800GTX then maybe i'll get one.


8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX
so what u say is that core duo should not be compared with K8 chips? am i right?
March 17, 2007 8:11:19 AM

Quote:
8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX
:roll:
March 17, 2007 8:38:18 AM

If AMD can pull this off, it would be smart move. Heating R600 which consumes ~240W is hardly anyones dream, but 65nm with lower power consumption and better overclocking chips seems nice way to start managing ATI division IMO.
March 17, 2007 9:16:27 AM

Not to pee in the cheerios but, until they actually put product on the shelf, it is all BS....put up or shut up. (to AMD, not you fine folks), Vaporware never impressed me. And guess who isn't talking about what they have waiting to respond with when AMD does finally ship...you think Nvidia is just kicking back and smoking a blunt while they let AMD catch up?

:lol: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 17, 2007 9:24:33 AM

Quote:
I'm no fan of AMD or ATI but if this is better then the 8800GTX then maybe i'll get one.


8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX

Why?
If he's buying he compares against what in the market at the time.

It's not about comparing companies. If the GF8800 series taught us anything it's that waiting isn't always worth it. Better to buy, enjoy, then resell and rebuy when something better comes out .
March 17, 2007 9:32:34 AM

Yep, you will wait forever if you wait for the next best thing.

All this hype from AMD right now is the company trying to boost stock prices to fund their business.....thats all the "Pre-release" news ever is, work the crowd so when you do release there is this big spastic surge of sales.

This goes for any company that is releasing news about their "Next" product.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 17, 2007 9:39:16 AM

Quote:
Vaporware never impressed me. And guess who isn't talking about what they have waiting to respond with when AMD does finally ship...


That's a funny segment there, Vaporware doesn't impress you, yet you are certain that the not even on the roadmap part from nV will be right there to reply to a 65nm R600. The thing is this 65nm R600 is being seen at Cebit right now, and by more than just the InQ, with AMD confirming the 'rumour'. Right now there's not much about a 65nm part from nV, so it'll likely be a few months behind. Of course that's just speculation vs speculation.

Quote:
you think Nvidia is just kicking back and smoking a blunt while they let AMD catch up?


No more so than AMD was while the GF8800 was out, but wanting to release their next part and actually doing it are two different things. Would the GF8900 they currently have on the roadmap be a competitor of the 65nm R600? I suspect we'll see a staggered launch like the GTXD512 -> GF7900, something to fill the pipeline while a replacement comes out.

Until anything launches, including nV's refresh, it's all Vaporware until it solidifies/launches.
March 17, 2007 10:53:47 AM

Quote:
I'm no fan of AMD or ATI but if this is better then the 8800GTX then maybe i'll get one.


8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX

Why?
If he's buying he compares against what in the market at the time.

It's not about comparing companies. If the GF8800 series taught us anything it's that waiting isn't always worth it. Better to buy, enjoy, then resell and rebuy when something better comes out .

Though it makes perfect sense that as a consumer you can only compare with what you can purchase I still agree with stefx. If the follow up to g80 is released closer to r600 than r600 to g80 then when comparing by generation the g80 had no competition.

Either way let's just get this graphics arms race back on. Six months is too long for G80 to go uncontested.
March 17, 2007 10:55:59 AM

:lol:  I wasn't implying that I was all Hyped on NV having something better than R600 waiting in the wings, Im just saying that I prefer not to have the hype, mention it and let it go till it ships not this constant cheerleading......altho I guess AMD isn't the sole blame for this....the AMD fanboi club is also doing their share.

I am not saying NV products are better than AMD/ATi Im just saying until product ships its jack....ya know?

:) 

Oh and everyone knocks NV for driver issues with Vista and implying that ATi will be soooo much better....welll DuH its easy to say how much better a product is, when it doesn't actually have to perform ;) 
Anonymous
March 17, 2007 11:20:16 AM

well it doesn't matter now. because they are already 7 months late compared to nvidia directx 10 card. if nvidia had also introduced geforce 8800 cards in may they would have been at 65nm too.
March 17, 2007 11:49:36 AM

Still, you can only compare the top end cards of the time. At this point in time, you can only compare whatever ATI's top end is to the 8800GTX. That's is how it works. So regardless of how long it is until Nvidia comes out with the new high end, the R600 will be compared to the 8800 until that day. When Nvidia comes out with the replacement, then the R600 top end will be compared to it. That is just how it works, doesn't matter how far apart the releases were. We don't compare K8 to Netburst just because the release dates were closer together than K8 and Core. We compare AMD high end parts to Intel high end parts that you can currently buy.

wes
March 17, 2007 12:16:36 PM

Why doesn't it matter now? So, they haven't released a DX10 card yet, how many DX10 games have you played or been able to buy? Also, Nvidia has not even released an 80nm core yet, which they ARE scheduled to do. So, since ATI has been selling products, not all, but they have been producing cards with 80nm cores since last October, what makes you think Nvidia would all of the sudden scrap the plans for 80nm and have 65nm? Are you kidding me?

wes

Edit: typo
March 17, 2007 12:59:04 PM

Quote:
Vaporware never impressed me. And guess who isn't talking about what they have waiting to respond with when AMD does finally ship...


That's a funny segment there, Vaporware doesn't impress you, yet you are certain that the not even on the roadmap part from nV will be right there to reply to a 65nm R600. The thing is this 65nm R600 is being seen at Cebit right now, and by more than just the InQ, with AMD confirming the 'rumour'. Right now there's not much about a 65nm part from nV, so it'll likely be a few months behind. Of course that's just speculation vs speculation.


Who says the .65nm R600 is being shown now? Everything is behind closed doors and DAMMIT is not even allowing photos of the R600 cards. It's quite possible what they are showing off now are still the old 80nm version, photos of which have been floating around for a while now.

Now its great news that we're supposed to get .65nm R600 in May, the power consumption figures that had been floating around for the 80nm version were insane and made such a card a non-starter for a lot of people. The bad news is this crazy long delay and the fact that DAMMIT couldn't come up with with something at 80nm that was worth releasing against the 90nm G80.

BTW the same source that broke R600 at 65nm is also reporting that the 8800 Ultra is coming out on April 17, before the R600. That is the card the R600 will have to match, and we don't know what changes they have made for it.

http://www.k-hardware.de/news.php?s=c&news_id=6408
March 17, 2007 1:01:56 PM

AMD is behind NVIDIA, even if you don't relize it as yet. Facts are, NVIDIA released their first DirectX 10 cards and in the end proved that the Geforce 8800 GTX is (at the moment) the most top performance card on the planet. This can be proven by the benchmarks released. Another reason why ATI/AMD is still behind, even though their R600 can outrun the 8800 GTX, is that short after a while NVIDIA will be introducing their new line of the Geforce family. And during that time, ATI/AMD will be getting their ingredients for a newer release, which proves that their behind by more than half of a year! 8)
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 17, 2007 6:04:53 PM

Quote:
As long as they produce the performance in upcoming games that i amy buy that is all that counts, not release dates compared to a rival.


Exactly, very little matters for the current generation. The GF8800's performance in DX9 titles is impressive, but it's still not the 'killer app' situation people are waiting for and focusing on.

And who was first doesn't matter much for current buyers only what's available at the time of purchase. And those who will buy when the games like Crysis and UT3 come out, at that point it's all about who performs better regardless of badge.
March 17, 2007 6:42:31 PM

Quote:
Check out this ppl. This is really interesting.
For all of those waiting for the R600 this could prove it was worth it!

AMD R6xx to be 65nm
Until the card is out, we won't really know anything.
March 17, 2007 11:03:12 PM

I still don't understand why you guys keep pressing the DX-10 issue. How many DX-10 games are out? How well does the Nvidia 8800 work with Vista? Go through the Nvidia forums, people are pissed and talking about lawsuits. So, the number one selling point on the card isn't the top performance in DX9 and only the DX10 performance which is something you can't even buy a game for yet? Also, Nvidia will probably due a shrink on the next refresh of the product line and then it will probably be at least 8 months until they release a new core. Think about it, ATI is already making noise about it's 65nm parts, Nvidia hasn't even shown the 80nm parts yet. I would say with exception of Nvidia getting out of the gates first, ATI will have caught up and they will be neck and neck when the R600 release finally hits us. The product refresh will probably only catch Nvidia up enough to make them competitive until ATI transitions to 65nm, unless they are using 65nm sooner than expected.

wes
March 17, 2007 11:50:53 PM

The stars are aligning for the ultimate comeback in the history of computer hardware :twisted: :?:
March 18, 2007 12:11:24 AM

Quote:
The product refresh will probably only catch Nvidia up enough to make them competitive until ATI transitions to 65nm, unless they are using 65nm sooner than expected.

wes


Once again you are speculating on a product that doesn't even exist, how do you know that R600 is going to be flawlesss with no driver issues, no production hiccups? You dis NV for their issues in the real world, and laud ATi for a product that doesnt even have to work .... Dude, be fair. As for people bitching and moaning about the 8800GXT's there are a LOT of people who are happy with them too. I have never seen a new product come out where there were not whiners and complainers and valid problems.
March 18, 2007 12:51:54 AM

Yeah,

I am speculating, but I going off of prior history. Sure things could go differently, but we know the product refresh is going to be a shrink since Nvidia is already behind in the process tech. But, they are going to shrink the process, and up the speeds like they have been doing in the past. I am not saying there will not be issues with R600 drivers, but you guys seem to be saying the same thing about Nvidia as you are railing me for saying about ATI. I have only owned 1 ATI card, and it was not even in a computer I used. I have always been a fan of Nvidia, but come on guys. Also, yeah, I am speculating, and never said that I wasn't, but you guys are speculating on the refresh of the 88XX line, which are also products that do not exist. I am not dissing Nvidia, simply stating the problems people are having with Nvidia and Vista..... it's just the truth.... nothing more. You guys are talking about DX10, as if it matters, there are no DX10 games and the Nvidia parts are having tons of issues with Vista. So, stop even referring to DX10, lets talk about what exists, DX9.

wes
March 18, 2007 1:30:32 AM

Quote:

8800GTX is a card that was released 6+ months ago. If they release the R600, you'll have to compare it with whatever new card Nvidia will release too, not with the 8800GTX


While this statement is completely wrong, it is exactly what the ATI fanboys have been saying whenever someone compares x1950XTX to 8800GTX :p 

8800GTX should currently be compared to x1950XTX, and should be compared to R600 when that is out. The top cards that can be bought at any particular time are what should be compared.
March 18, 2007 2:12:39 AM

I think its best if AMD waits a little while longer before they release the R600 because I want to buy a digital camera first.

Maybe by may I might be able to afford an R600 becuase I'm sure they will probably be around the $1000AU dollar mark for a good one.

Anyone know if these cards will be able to be used for folding@home?

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/THGC-Team-40051...
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 18, 2007 8:57:00 AM

Quote:

While this statement is completely wrong, it is exactly what the ATI fanboys have been saying whenever someone compares x1950XTX to 8800GTX :p 

8800GTX should currently be compared to x1950XTX, and should be compared to R600 when that is out. The top cards that can be bought at any particular time are what should be compared.


Yeah but it depends on why you're comparing them. People were comparing the GF8800GTS to the X1950 technically, which was wrong, comparing them for price is completely right, but it is a different story. It's like comparing the value of the X1950PRO/GT to the value of the GF8800GTX, not really applicable despite things like the $/fps stuff because they accomplish different goals.

I doubt anyone can defend the X1950XTX versus GF8800GTS as a good buy for the same price (unless they are comparing a specific games/setting or specific GPGPU performance).

The only thing that's valid is comparing cards in the same price range when they are available, and that's the thing most unbiased people do, those that don't shouldn't be given any credibility. When there's competing products then it becomes more difficult.
March 18, 2007 9:27:21 AM

I agree with what you say here....Compare apples to apples....Price point and availability need to be similar for valid comparison.
March 20, 2007 12:04:10 PM

Quote:
The GF8800's performance in DX9 titles is impressive, but it's still not the 'killer app' situation people are waiting for and focusing on.
WHat are you talking about? People buy the 8800 for getting killer performance in whatever games they can throw at it, and that's exactly what the card delivers.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 20, 2007 3:25:13 PM

Quote:
The GF8800's performance in DX9 titles is impressive, but it's still not the 'killer app' situation people are waiting for and focusing on.
WHat are you talking about? People buy the 8800 for getting killer performance in whatever games they can throw at it, and that's exactly what the card delivers.

You're missing the point of my statement.
It's not about the GF8800 performing well now that's a given and lotsa people wisely bought to improve their Oblivion gameplay, and other games, but the large majority of the market is holding back waiting for the 'damn gotta go out and buy me a card' killer apps that are the upcoming games we've all been talking about since the GF6800/X800 generation when we discussed whether or not 24-bit/32-bit would matter. Alot of people are fine on their GF7900GT, X1950Pro, even GF6800U etc. and really aren't in a rush to buy anything yet. Just like D3 and HL2 caused alot of anticipation followed by upgrading, it's the same for Crysis, UT3, and Halo2-PC (and even FSX-DX10). There are alot of people who are looking to buy card specifically for those titles, and then for longer term, so right now while there are great benifits to buying a GF8800 for DX9 titles, it's still not quite the same as the push that will occur when something like Crysis or UT3 launches and people know for sure what they need to play the game.

That's the strategy we've been telling people for a while (ever since I've been here), IF you're buying for a specific game, then buy when the game demos or ships and you know what to buy, if you're just buying for the best, then buy for the GF8800. However alot of people have good systems that play in their comfort zone quite well, and like D3 taught us, alot of people assume the card they bought to play the game will be best, yet when the game ships it shows the weakness of that purchae (like R9800P and FX5900U in D3 was dissapointing compared to the card releaed just before D3 came out. So alot of people, like Stranger said he's doing, are waiting to see what's what when the true DX10 tests come out.

It's not about the value of the GF8800, but it is about what motivates people to buy, and there is no killer app out there yet for the GF8800, it's just more of the same, which doesn't spark the same level of interest as a new single point of focus, killer app that make people say, "OH! THAT'S why I NEED a new card!"

For some people the launch dates they're watching isn't R600 vs GF81 etc, but Crysis vs UT3 everything else is just the build up and the only thing they care about is maybe those cards launching early enough for their prices to come down by the time they feel they need them.

Do you understand what I'm saying?
March 20, 2007 4:20:27 PM

Yes, thanks for the detailed answer.

Oblivion could have been that kind of "damn I need to upgrade" game, it made most people's systems ask for euthanasia, but unfortunately at the time it was released there was no killer card to go with it, even the X1900XTX had a lot of trouble with Oblivion. By the time the G80 came out, Oblivion was old news.
!