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Please recommend 60" LCD or DLP TV

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Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I bought a new Sony Grand Wega
KF60-WE610. Got a good deal on it, money-wise, as a floor model @ 20% off
and got Ultimate Electronics to knock about half off the stand it sits on.
Beautiful TV, beautiful picture; we love it.

Unfortunately, it is already beginning to show early symptoms of the lamp
circuitry problem that, as I have found out recently, this model (and its
42" & 50" sisters) have been plagued with. Our TV was built in January,
2004, supposedly the last month with the problems but definitely part of the
problem run. Anyone who is interested can put the model number and "lamp
problem" into Google and find plenty of reading material about it.

Right now, it has just started to be recalcitrant, from time to time, about
powering-up. Sometimes fine, sometimes makes a weird "zinging" noise a few
times before coming up, this morning it just refused to come on at all until
the 3rd or 4th try with the power button. Eventually, it stops working,
apparently, and Sony has to install a new lamp, at the least, or new
circuits at the most. Either way, it's not something that happens
overnight. No good. We will take advantage of our 30-day satisfaction
guarantee from Ultimate Electronics and take it back this weekend.

My wife wants a 60" or something close to it. The Sony 50", even one made
recently with the lamp problem supposedly fixed, is not going to do it. And
there do not seem to be more of this model out there; I think they have quit
making them. Sony makes an XBR 60" but it's a lot more money and I could
not see anything in it that I needed, anyway. So, recommendations for an
LCD or DLP around the 60" size?

I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few service
problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I don't know
anything about particular models. Advice, please.

More about : recommend lcd dlp

Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:54:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mack McKinnon wrote:

> A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I bought a new Sony Grand Wega
> KF60-WE610. Got a good deal on it, money-wise, as a floor model @ 20% off
> and got Ultimate Electronics to knock about half off the stand it sits on.
> Beautiful TV, beautiful picture; we love it.
>
> Unfortunately, it is already beginning to show early symptoms of the lamp
> circuitry problem that, as I have found out recently, this model (and its
> 42" & 50" sisters) have been plagued with. Our TV was built in January,
> 2004, supposedly the last month with the problems but definitely part of the
> problem run. Anyone who is interested can put the model number and "lamp
> problem" into Google and find plenty of reading material about it.
>
> Right now, it has just started to be recalcitrant, from time to time, about
> powering-up. Sometimes fine, sometimes makes a weird "zinging" noise a few
> times before coming up, this morning it just refused to come on at all until
> the 3rd or 4th try with the power button. Eventually, it stops working,
> apparently, and Sony has to install a new lamp, at the least, or new
> circuits at the most. Either way, it's not something that happens
> overnight. No good. We will take advantage of our 30-day satisfaction
> guarantee from Ultimate Electronics and take it back this weekend.
>

If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
any money.

Matthew
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:26:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote

> If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
> get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
> any money.

If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that question.
I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight for
days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I have
a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of. If
I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.

mack
austin
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Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:gYf4d.12103$Qb.12055@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote
>
> > If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
> > get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
> > any money.
>
> If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
> to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that
question.
> I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight
for
> days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I
have
> a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of.
If
> I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.
>
> mack
> austin
>
ALL manufacturers that use the Phillips lamp and ballast are having this
problem. That's Hitachi, Toshiba, MGA, RCA, Sony, Samsung, etc.

Having a set fixed under warranty for a known problem should be a snap
unless there isn't a service center for SONY in your area. In that case
don't buy another Sony...check which Manufacturer has a service center in
your area and check out the service center then buy.

We service Samsung DLP in this area and our customers get service (fixed)
within 3 days on a known problem, some in one day. On an unkown problem
within 5 days average. There is no service for Sony locally so they have to
service out of Tampa (65 miles away) and it has to be scheduled so that adds
days to the repair.

>
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:gYf4d.12103$Qb.12055@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote
>
> > If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
> > get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
> > any money.
>
> If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
> to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that
question.
> I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight
for
> days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I
have
> a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of.
If
> I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.
>
> mack
> austin

How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely on
the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more with
the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers with
Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your homework
and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service center in
your area.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 7:05:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rigby" <jeffg212@comcast.net> wrote

> ALL manufacturers that use the Phillips lamp and ballast are having this
> problem. That's Hitachi, Toshiba, MGA, RCA, Sony, Samsung, etc.
>
> Having a set fixed under warranty for a known problem should be a snap
> unless there isn't a service center for SONY in your area. In that case
> don't buy another Sony...check which Manufacturer has a service center in
> your area and check out the service center then buy.

I will, of course, talk to Ultimate Electronics about the problem before I
hand over the TV. If they surprise me with a service solution via the local
Sony service center, I'll be open to hear about it.

But the last times I have tried to get a Sony anything fixed here in Austin,
there was only one Sony service center. It was always booked up for weeks
and the people were arrogant buttholes. So, I would expect nothing but
unpleasantness trying to deal with them. The words "backorder" and "wait"
would probably figure in. Yes, that is a good reason not to buy Sony
products here in Austin. But perhaps that situation has changed; I will
look into it.

This was a floor model. Would you keep a floor model that you have paid
$3,000 for if it started going out in 2 weeks? I think the service
situation would have to be excellent to tempt me to do that.

On the web, I have not seen reports of other LCD projection sets having the
kind of problem the Sonys have become famous for recently. Not saying they
don't -- you sound like you know -- just that perhaps the problems are not
as prevalent. I don't know.

So, what would you buy? A DLP set?

mack
austin



>
> We service Samsung DLP in this area and our customers get service (fixed)
> within 3 days on a known problem, some in one day. On an unkown problem
> within 5 days average. There is no service for Sony locally so they have
to
> service out of Tampa (65 miles away) and it has to be scheduled so that
adds
> days to the repair.
>
> >
>
>
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 12:45:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard Caillouet" <nospam@noway.com> wrote

> How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely on
> the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more with
> the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
> similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers with
> Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your
homework
> and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service center
in
> your area.
>
> Leonard

I don't have that particular confusion and I agree about the service center.
In the past, my loyalty to Sony products, with which I have had excellent
experience over the years (despite their reported decline in quality) has
swayed me, even though the local service center was far from adequate.

It seems, from researching on the web, that Sony has had much more than
their share of problems with these lamps and they have had further problems
with the circuit boards that support the lamps. I have not seen any
discussion of the lamp problem except with regard to Sony's LCD TV's,
especially those dated prior to February 2004.

mack
austin
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 12:45:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:nvl4d.16559$Gn3.3822@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Leonard Caillouet" <nospam@noway.com> wrote
>
> > How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely
on
> > the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more
with
> > the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
> > similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers
with
> > Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your
> homework
> > and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service
center
> in
> > your area.
> >
> > Leonard
>
> I don't have that particular confusion and I agree about the service
center.
> In the past, my loyalty to Sony products, with which I have had excellent
> experience over the years (despite their reported decline in quality) has
> swayed me, even though the local service center was far from adequate.
>
> It seems, from researching on the web, that Sony has had much more than
> their share of problems with these lamps and they have had further
problems
> with the circuit boards that support the lamps. I have not seen any
> discussion of the lamp problem except with regard to Sony's LCD TV's,
> especially those dated prior to February 2004.
>
> mack
> austin

That does not mean that other brands have not had problems. If you serviced
the sets and communicated daily with other servicers you would understand
that the problems with the Sony are not disimilar to those of Hitachi and
Samsung, for example. We sell and service these sets and have had no lamp
or ballast failures at all.

Sony is a big arrogant company and is a big target for discussion.
Regardless of the discussion, they make a very good product in most cases,
including this one.

I personally prefer the better DLP and CRT based products, but the Sony LCD
based sets would easily be my choice in a comparison with the lower-tier
performance DLPs.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 3:51:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Morbius" <ive_been_mugged@takethisout.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bbba92f2abcb8be989686@news1.prserv.net...
> Mack,
>
> Contrary to what some of the other posters have said, my gut instinct
> would be to return the set...

> So my advice is, for a known and what seems to be fairly serious problem
> like the one you're having, don't risk getting caught in a mess like
> this. The manufacturers aren't interested in quickly solving these
> things, and have no qualms about making you wait days, weeks, or even
> months for a repair.

That's what I figure. If I lay out a few grand for a new TV, I want to work
right for a good long time before something breaks. I realize I've been
spoiled by an old technology that had all the kinks worked out of it many
years ago and now we are dealing with some new technologies but, hey, I
still want the thing to work right. If I have a 30-day "satisfaction
guaranteed" period and ANYTHING goes wrong with a 3+ grand set during that
period, I am DIS-satisfied!

Appreciate the long reply. Sad story.

> Just as a side note, SoundTrack's (Ultimate Electronics) extended or in-
> house warranties and service seem to be just as bad...my father in-law
> purchased a 3-year extended warranty through SoundTrack on his Pioneer
> 510. When he had a problem last summer (not the same as mine), and
> called SoundTrack for service, they told him it would 17 days before
> they could even come out to look at the set!

They really pushed for that $300 extended warranty but I would have none of
it.

mack
austin
September 23, 2004 3:51:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Mack McKinnon wrote:
<snip>
> They really pushed for that $300 extended warranty but I would have none of
> it.

Seriously consider buying at Sears and getting their extended warranty (for as
long as possible). They usually don't have the best selection in the world,
but if you find the set you like there, their warranty can really make a
difference.

My true story:

A little over three years ago, I bought their top of the line Hitachi rptv hd
set for around $4000 and an extended 3 yr. warranty for $200. About 2 1/2
years into the warranty, I started noticing occasionally the screen would blank
when playing DVDs on a scene w/ a sudden high contrast scene change. It was
annoying, but didn't really occur all that often. Had Sears come out and
examine the set. I was able to consistently duplicate the problem, but they
weren't able to fix it, even with Hitachi's direct help. The nice thing about
their extended warranty is that if they can't fix the problem, or they have to
fix the same problem more than 3 times, you get a warranty replacement.

Sure enough, they took the old set back, gave me a $4000 buy limit, I went back
to the store and picked up a new 60" Hitachi LCD ptv, no questions asked.

Been very happy w/ the LCD ptv, and even more satisfied w/ the warranty, made
all the difference in the world. Their service techs were nice, and would call
and keep me posted of updates every couple of days when a part was on order or
they were waiting to hear back from Hitachi. When it came time to get the
replacement, it took a few calls on my end, but not because they were trying to
get out of it, they just didn't know exactly what to do in a high-dollar
situation such as mine.
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 10:00:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
in news:2uf4d.12085$Qb.5105@fe2.texas.rr.com:

> I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few
> service problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I
> don't know anything about particular models. Advice, please.

How about the Samsung DLP TV? That's probably the best one you can buy.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 10:00:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Lucas Tam" <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Xns956D1474C5484nntprogerscom@140.99.99.130...
> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
> in news:2uf4d.12085$Qb.5105@fe2.texas.rr.com:
>
> > I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few
> > service problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I
> > don't know anything about particular models. Advice, please.
>
> How about the Samsung DLP TV? That's probably the best one you can buy.

Come on now, the best you can buy? For a long time they were one of the few
DLP sets you could buy, but now there are lots of them on the market and
Samsung is hardly considered among the best. Shop around and look carefully
at the various sets out there.

Leonard
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 11:57:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I do plan to take a look at the Samsung. And if I take the Sony back to
Ultimate Electronics, I may see what Sears has to offer, as Julie has
recommended. At least they do their own service, although I wonder how far
that extends with TV's. Hard to imagine that they service all these new
TV's in all their local markets, and really know what they are doing, but
maybe they do. Could find out.

I do hate to take this Sony back, though. Start-up and lamp problems aside,
the picture is just abolutely stunning!

mack
austin


"Lucas Tam" <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:Xns956D1474C5484nntprogerscom@140.99.99.130...
> "Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
> in news:2uf4d.12085$Qb.5105@fe2.texas.rr.com:
>
> > I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few
> > service problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I
> > don't know anything about particular models. Advice, please.
>
> How about the Samsung DLP TV? That's probably the best one you can buy.
>
> --
> Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
> Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
> http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
September 24, 2004 12:48:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:p lv4d.17771$Gn3.16776@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I do plan to take a look at the Samsung. And if I take the Sony back to
> Ultimate Electronics, I may see what Sears has to offer, as Julie has
> recommended. At least they do their own service, although I wonder how
far
> that extends with TV's. Hard to imagine that they service all these new
> TV's in all their local markets, and really know what they are doing, but
> maybe they do. Could find out.
>
> I do hate to take this Sony back, though. Start-up and lamp problems
aside,
> the picture is just abolutely stunning!
>
> mack
> austin

If it matters much, Samsung models have had lamp problems too from what I
heard. Some manufacturers used cheap Philips lamps in their DLP/LCD RPTV's
and it plagued them with lamp failures. At least that's what I've heard from
several other threads. So you might exchange the Sony and be no better off
than you currently are.........less you exchange it for a better model.
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 2:27:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote in
message news:2uf4d.12085$Qb.5105@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I bought a new Sony Grand Wega
> KF60-WE610. Got a good deal on it, money-wise, as a floor model @ 20% off
> and got Ultimate Electronics to knock about half off the stand it sits on.
> Beautiful TV, beautiful picture; we love it.
>
> Unfortunately, it is already beginning to show early symptoms of the lamp
> circuitry problem that, as I have found out recently, this model (and its
> 42" & 50" sisters) have been plagued with. Our TV was built in January,
> 2004, supposedly the last month with the problems but definitely part of
the
> problem run. Anyone who is interested can put the model number and "lamp
> problem" into Google and find plenty of reading material about it.
>
> Right now, it has just started to be recalcitrant, from time to time,
about
> powering-up. Sometimes fine, sometimes makes a weird "zinging" noise a
few
> times before coming up, this morning it just refused to come on at all
until
> the 3rd or 4th try with the power button. Eventually, it stops working,
> apparently, and Sony has to install a new lamp, at the least, or new
> circuits at the most. Either way, it's not something that happens
> overnight. No good. We will take advantage of our 30-day satisfaction
> guarantee from Ultimate Electronics and take it back this weekend.
>
> My wife wants a 60" or something close to it. The Sony 50", even one made
> recently with the lamp problem supposedly fixed, is not going to do it.
And
> there do not seem to be more of this model out there; I think they have
quit
> making them. Sony makes an XBR 60" but it's a lot more money and I could
> not see anything in it that I needed, anyway. So, recommendations for an
> LCD or DLP around the 60" size?
>
> I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few
service
> problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I don't know
> anything about particular models. Advice, please.
>
>

The JVC HD-ILA TVs are getting a lot of positive reviews over at AVS forum
theses days.
It looks like JVC has figured out how to engineer and market a 3 chip LCOS
television
for around $4000. It would be worth taking a look.

Ed
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 3:42:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"abe" <abes24@doodeedoo.com> wrote

> If it matters much, Samsung models have had lamp problems too from what I
> heard. Some manufacturers used cheap Philips lamps in their DLP/LCD RPTV's
> and it plagued them with lamp failures. At least that's what I've heard
from
> several other threads. So you might exchange the Sony and be no better off
> than you currently are.........less you exchange it for a better model.

I talked to a local small dealer today, whom I know slightly. He told me
that they have had very few problems with their Sonys this year, as distinct
from last year. He believes that there was never really a circuit board
problem but the problem was always the Phillips lamps which, as you say, are
also used in other TV's. There is apparently another manufacturer who also
makes the lamps for Sony but Sony puts them into the same box. No problems
with that one, if you get lucky. But how you would specify that
manufacturer, I don't know. Can't with a new TV, I am sure.

In any case, different TV's, Sonys and other brands, use different size
lamps. I think the big problems were associated with the 100-watt lamps
used in the Sony Grand Wega series but not in the XBR's. I could be wrong
about that. The new Samsung 61" model I saw today uses a 120-watt lamp,
like the XBR's.

Everybody you talk to has a different story about this.

Whether the problem my TV exhibits is this same lamp problem or something
else, I don't know. What it does is refuse to start up, especially in the
AM when it's been off for a long time. Once or twice it made some loud
singing noises before starting up. Now, almost every time, it comes on then
goes back off and you have to push the power button again. I have had to
push it 3 or 4 times to get the TV to stay on. That does not portend well
for the future, I think.

mack
austin
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 8:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 06:00:39 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>"Mack McKinnon" <MckinnonRemoveThis@tvadmanDeleteThisAsWell.com> wrote
>in news:2uf4d.12085$Qb.5105@fe2.texas.rr.com:
>
>> I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few
>> service problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I
>> don't know anything about particular models. Advice, please.
>
>How about the Samsung DLP TV? That's probably the best one you can buy.

=======
I purchased a floor model Samsung DLP 50" set from Circuit City for
about 30% off list price roughly 3.5 months ago. I considered a Sony
but avoided it because of all of the discussion of lamp ballast
problems on AVSForum. While I am sure there are some Samsung sets
that have experienced a similar problem, the sheer volume of
discussion of such problems with the Sony, and lack of discussion for
the Samsung, caused me to believe the Samsung was less troublesome.

And in side by side comparison, I thought the Samsung had a better
picture.

We purchased an extended warranty, and have required no service calls
at all so far.

We have not regretted our decision.
!