Help a blind man out please

[spanks]

Hello everyone.

I've got an a8n-sli deluxe mobo with an athlon 64 4000+ cpu.

I'm trying to dable in a little overclocking, and I want to start by heading towards lowering the multiplier from 12 to 10, and raising the fsb to 240 to keep the 2.4 ghz rating. However, I can't for the life of me in the bios find the fsb setting. I have found the multiplier, voltage, etc...but I can't find the FSB.

I've tried just using AI booster from asus, but i've already had to reset the cmos once with that POS...

I'm planning on using the 5:4 ratio instead of overclcoking my budget ram too. I don't want to drive the thing into the ground, I just want to get a few more fps out of counterstrike source, which is heavily influenced by the CPU.

Thanks for the help!

 

[lordaardvark2]

first of all: is CSS really THAT cpu bound? you sure?

second: how many more fps do you want? you have a 4000+! are you running it with like onboard or something? i have an ancient sempron 2800+, MAYBE (not sure what it is :lol: ), and an agp 9550... that runs it on all high w/ no AA with ~30 fps... you must be doing something wrong lol

third: overclocking is fun, but lowering multi and upping fsb won't produce the yields that i think you are looking for.

you may want to invest in a better gpu for higher framerates, i know for a fact that gpus help A LOT. even in this game that is super cpu bound ( :?

and i'm glad to know that you're not ACTUALLY blind, too. i thought this was going to be help of another kind.

 

[spanks]

first of all: is CSS really THAT cpu bound? you sure?

second: how many more fps do you want? you have a 4000+! are you running it with like onboard or something? i have an ancient sempron 2800+, MAYBE (not sure what it is :lol: ), and an agp 9550... that runs it on all high w/ no AA with ~30 fps... you must be doing something wrong lol

third: overclocking is fun, but lowering multi and upping fsb won't produce the yields that i think you are looking for.

you may want to invest in a better gpu for higher framerates, i know for a fact that gpus help A LOT. even in this game that is super cpu bound ( :?

and i'm glad to know that you're not ACTUALLY blind, too. i thought this was going to be help of another kind.

well, the game is very dependent on cpu, it shows the most gains.

I'm awaiting the 8600gt/ultras release in april before I upgrade anything.

I get fine fps in counterstrike for normal usage, however it gets more complicated when you start to get into competative gaming. I get anywhere from 50-140 fps in normal usage. The 50 fps times are the ones that hurt. I was looking for a 10 fps gain for a little buffer.

The way the game works with registration is rather bad, and complex. First of all, you need the highest fps to be able to get the most screen refreshes possible to get the best reaction time. Also, you need a constant 100fps

idealy to get the best registration. The server is rated with a tick rate, or updates per second. The tick rate is essentially the server's fps. To keep up with the 100 tick on the user's side, your fps must be 100 or more.

I suppose I forgot to mention that I have a target of 2.6ghz from 2.4. I'll settle anywhere around there seeing as I would rather not mess with my ram. I was just going to start by lowering the multiplier and upping the fsb to achieve the stock timing with a different multiplier.

That is when I ran into my problem with not finding the fsb.

I have upgraded cooling on my cpu, as my stock hsf started to squeel on me. I found $30 for a freezer was a better deal than a new fan.

 

[JuiceJones]

Wow, CS must have a highly advanced audio engine and you must have a very expensive surround sound setup to accommadate your super-sensitive and expertly honed hearing skills.

Or maybe the thread title is figurative xp.

But anyway,

"Asus is calling their overclocking section the "JumperFree Configuration" now and its here you can modify the HT bus speed, clocks and voltages."

http://www.pcperspective.com/images/reviews/98/bios_04.jpg

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=98&type=expert&pid=6

It seems to be at the top of the same page as the other stuff.

 

[spanks]

well...I assumed that the cpu frequency was the fsb, however when I made my changes it ignored the changes I made to the fsb. I lowered the multiplier to 10 and raised the fsb to 240 from 200, and it ran at 2000 mhz in cpuz...so thats when I got confused.

I suppose I can go at less drastic steps to try and see if it works then? I'm not sure if it is something in my system because when I tried oc'ing with the ai booster program, I selected 3% boost to start, and it stayed at 2400 mhz. I then selected 5% and it was at 2400mhz for like 5 minutes, then suddenly it flashed up to like 2520mhz, and then it went back to 2400. I have cool and quiet disabled, but is there something else that can be messing with me?

 

[lordaardvark2]

alls i know is that i see absolutely NO gains when i overclock. none. and i know that similar systems to mine shine with better gpus. of course an 8600 anything will help a ton, but if you can really somehow squeeze 10 fps out of your oc'ing, please tell me how you did it.

 

[spanks]

alls i know is that i see absolutely NO gains when i overclock. none. and i know that similar systems to mine shine with better gpus. of course an 8600 anything will help a ton, but if you can really somehow squeeze 10 fps out of your oc'ing, please tell me how you did it.

I'll let yah know what I accomplish as soon as I figure out how to overclock instead of underclock my system :lol:

The tools are there...just not doing what I expected I guess. I'm gonna try to leave the multiplier alone and mess with the fsb and see if the speed changes.

Also, if you're seeing no gains from oc'ing why do it? It just gives a higher risk to failure, doesn't it?

 

[lordaardvark2]

yep. thats why i clocked my processor back down.

i still sometimes clock it back up if i'm really in a gaming mood just for idk superstition or ceremony or something... but i don't really keep it there.

yeah, OCing does reduce a part's lifespan, but tbh, these parts should have probably died a while back

 

[fender22]

I have a 4600 which is also clocked at 2.4, but it has 2 x 512Mb cache instead of your 1MB cache (Single core) But I would expect you to achieve a relative easy overclock... socket 939? Sounds good to leave the budget ram out of the OC. your Ghz or Mhz is equal to your multiplyer (12x for a 4000+) times the FSB 200 stock on all athlon 64s, at least socket 939 and AM2. 12 x 200 = 2400 Mhz, that is what you run at. Since only FX series chips can raise multies you are gonna have to raise the FSB... at a multi of 12... 216 or 217 will give you your 2.6 GHz but I predict that you would also have to add some voltage to the chip as well, to get it stable. I do believe it runs with a 1.350 default.. The more volts you crank into your CPU, or any part for that matter, when over clocking, the more you reduce the life-span. Going over 1.500, IMO, and in many others is too much and will effectively kill your cpu. Also is this an A8N32??? If so, This board should have no problems with the north and south bridges hodling up under at 200 MHz boost, but if you decide you want more.. you may have to overvolt your chipsets and turn down the NB->SB SB->NB links... Im kinda of sceptical that this overclock would put you up that ammount of FPS.. A more exteme OC would could maybe put you over the mark, but it could take better cooling and alot of trial and error. OH and whats is your cooling and ventilation situation? if your CPU idle/load temp is to high now, you wont be able to OC at all...A 4000+ is quite a nice cpu so maybe look at video cards or OC the vid you have now... I can tell you ways to do that too... A nice fancy athlon x2 would alsobe a great way to raise FPS and I would say that that mobo deserves to fly with a beast x2, even a 3800+ would give you a boost if CSS is really that CPU bound. New vid or CPU sound like they would be the most effective.. maybe RAM.. how much of that do u have? Hope this could help you with wat you want, and if you don't get the results you disired I wish you luck finding them...

 

[spanks]

I have the 4000+ clawhammer which runs at 1.5. I believe the san diego core runs at 1.3 or so. The mobo is an a8n-sli deluxe, which is essencially the a8n32, just with dual pci-e x16.

I'm not going for an extreme oc, just kind of interested to looking into it and seeing how it works as its one thing i've never really dealt with before. I understand that 10fps might be a tad lofty, but when i'm looking tat it as a learning experience too i'm not much worried about it.

I have upgrade cooling all through my case, and the idle temps on the mobo are about 35 degrees. They used to be better, but I lowered the speed of the case fans due to anoyance. I dont think this will hinder me much...and if it does i'll just take a side panel off or something.

I've got 2 gigs of corsair value ram. Another reason why I don't really want to mess with it is because I do have 2 gigs of it. I kind of went with the mindset of mass > speed = less money. The computer started as a budget comp and I've added to it over the years.

I'll mess with it some more and see if I can actually achieve a number higher than 2400.... I'm going to leave the multiplier alone and try upping the fsb this time just to see what it does. I'll post back if I achieve anything.

Edit --

Well I'm running at 2508 mhz atm...I just raised the fsb to 209 and its running fine atm. I haven't bench marked or anything yet because I want to creep up on towards 2600. The only thing is it is linearly upping the mhz of the ram as well. I guess I can loosen the timings some and push it a bit too . People have afterall taken budget ram to the extreme...so we'll see. Thanks for the help guys, i'll let you know what kind of improvements I see (or not if I blow something up )

edit 2 --

well...i'm easily at 2604 mhz with 217 fsb 12 mult and 1.5 volts..

the memory is still at stock timings running ddr 400, 217 mhz, cas timings
2.5 3 3 7.

The comp is running fine. I'm gonna torture test it after I stress test in CS:S.

Damn this is not good..i'm getting carried away...I can already tell >.>

WELL...just got back from trying counterstrike...and I think this is the best thing i've ever done!!

Before ocing, I was at 163 fps in the video stress test.

After oc, at 2600mhz, I am at 195 fps. (Don't go psycho over the fps, its greatly different in game, and you use configs to tweak settings to squeeze performance out of everywhere ala turning off shaders and bump maping.)

Now, in game..I think I hit the 10 fps mark. Its hard to tell, because it is fluctuating so much. However, it is much more stable now, and the lows were only dipping into the high 60's low 70's. Constant it is a mid 80 to 90s with other people on the screen. The problem with the game is how much the stuff makes the fps fluctuate and thats why you need so much overhead. I'm at like 120 to 130 fps alone, but with other people the numbers take a nose dive.

Anyways, thanks a bunch to everyone for the help. I doubt i'm going to go any farther as right now it is running smooth as glass, and I haven't had to lax the ram timings. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know...or save me if something is going to explode

long post ahoy

 

[JuiceJones]

It's good to see someone have fun and learn the ways and benfits of overclocking. Sounds like your first time went failry smoothly; it's good that your budget RAM is holding up at DDR 434 with stock timings, but if you want to see 2.7 or 2.8, that will probably change.

Reminds me of my first overclocking experiences, bringing my P4 2.8C Northwood up to 3150Mhz, a mild overclock I know, but I was amazed to see my proc run the same speed as a chip considerably more expensive for doing something free and so accessible. When I straight out of the box bumped a PD 805 from 2.66Ghz to 3.4Ghz without so much as a voltage increase, was when it dawned on me, "Why the hell doesn't everyone do this!?"

Sorry for digressing, I'm not familiar with the Clawhammer's typical max overclocks and temp barriers, but some Googling around could give you a better idea of where you could safely take your setup. Everything sounds great as it is, but you might as well see how far you can take it before RAM timings, bigger voltage increases, and heat begin to come into play. Good luck!

 

[lordaardvark2]

It's good to see someone have fun and learn the ways and benfits of overclocking. Sounds like your first time went failry smoothly...

ah, i remember my first time...

 

[spanks]

It's good to see someone have fun and learn the ways and benfits of overclocking. Sounds like your first time went failry smoothly; it's good that your budget RAM is holding up at DDR 434 with stock timings, but if you want to see 2.7 or 2.8, that will probably change.

Reminds me of my first overclocking experiences, bringing my P4 2.8C Northwood up to 3150Mhz, a mild overclock I know, but I was amazed to see my proc run the same speed as a chip considerably more expensive for doing something free and so accessible. When I straight out of the box bumped a PD 805 from 2.66Ghz to 3.4Ghz without so much as a voltage increase, was when it dawned on me, "Why the hell doesn't everyone do this!?"

Sorry for digressing, I'm not familiar with the Clawhammer's typical max overclocks and temp barriers, but some Googling around could give you a better idea of where you could safely take your setup. Everything sounds great as it is, but you might as well see how far you can take it before RAM timings, bigger voltage increases, and heat begin to come into play. Good luck!

When the 805 secret was unveiled it made me wish so bad I had an intel comp lyin around

Not much to digress from now that my problem is solved

The clawhammer afaik is not considered as good as a chip for oc'ing as the san diego core do to its larger size and higher voltage.

the 4000+ clawhammer is .13 um, whereas the san diego is .90 nm, and runs .2 or .3 volts lower, so I suppose it gives it larger room to raise the voltage before the heat becomes too much?

I couldn't be happier atm, I just finished my torture testing without any problems. After I enjoy it for a while I think I will just have to push it a bit farther

I was a little worried there for a moment when I kept going after Asus's AI booster caused the pc not to post and I had to reset the cmos...I thought for a bit, if Asus's own program caused it to not post, how much damage am I going to do?

I've read that you get faster results with the same mhz if you lower the multiplier and raise the fsb even higher. Is it better to leave the multiplier at 12, or should I start to lower the multiplier if I keep going?

 

[JuiceJones]

I've read that you get faster results with the same mhz if you lower the multiplier and raise the fsb even higher. Is it better to leave the multiplier at 12, or should I start to lower the multiplier if I keep going?

Dropping the multiplier usually serves to increase HT speed and memory bandwidth. Say, for example, your Clawhammer maxed out at its current 2.604Ghz, 217Mhz HT, but you had DDR 500 running at only 434. You would benefit from dropping the multplier to 10x and increasing fsb to 260Mhz. Then your RAM would be running at 520Mhz, the CPU itself, however, would run exactly the same.

But since you're already running your RAM a little past spec, you'd probably have to lower your RAM divider and wouldn't see any real gains. I think the way you have it now is probably best.

 

[fender22]

good to see that you got your OC.. Much higher and you might have to pull back your RAM.. or overvolt it.. but then again that might not be good cause it it budget. lowered timings?

Why is the FPS soo important to be over 100 or as high as possible. I thought that the human eye couldn't distinguish the difference of anything after 60 or 70 FPS.... Is it kind of a ping thing? I don't quite grasp it..

 

[spanks]

good to see that you got your OC.. Much higher and you might have to pull back your RAM.. or overvolt it.. but then again that might not be good cause it it budget. lowered timings?

Why is the FPS soo important to be over 100 or as high as possible. I thought that the human eye couldn't distinguish the difference of anything after 60 or 70 FPS.... Is it kind of a ping thing? I don't quite grasp it..

The counterstrike servers are rated with tick rates. A good server is 100 tick. Think of the tick rate as updates per second. At 100 tick, the server updates 100 times every second. There are multiple things that go into it however, and thats what makes it a faulty system. To get true 100 tick, the server and the user must have a constant 100 fps. These are in and out ratings.

The in rating is the packets received from the server. The out rating is the packets you are supplying to the server. If you are getting 60 fps, meaning 100 in and approximately 60 out (it fluxuates around but averages on your fps), if you hit someone with a bullet in one of the 40 packets that you received, but failed to send back out, it is not registered by the server, and thus no damage is dealt. This can be quite bad in game when you're trying to play seriously. Sometimes it even twists the knife with you being able to see blood on the person's body that you hit, but no damage was done to him the entire round.

So in other words, if you have a good ping, constant 100 fps, and are playing in a good server, you will have the best chance at your shots registering.

I messed around with the stuff some more, tried to get up to 2700, and could only go a little ways into the 2600's. I decided just to back it off and leave it alone since its running so stable atm. I figure don't look a gift horse in the mouth, especially when you don't know what half of the knobs do that you're trying to turn

 

[fender22]

good to see that you got your OC.. Much higher and you might have to pull back your RAM.. or overvolt it.. but then again that might not be good cause it it budget. lowered timings?

Why is the FPS soo important to be over 100 or as high as possible. I thought that the human eye couldn't distinguish the difference of anything after 60 or 70 FPS.... Is it kind of a ping thing? I don't quite grasp it..

The counterstrike servers are rated with tick rates. A good server is 100 tick. Think of the tick rate as updates per second. At 100 tick, the server updates 100 times every second. There are multiple things that go into it however, and thats what makes it a faulty system. To get true 100 tick, the server and the user must have a constant 100 fps. These are in and out ratings.

The in rating is the packets received from the server. The out rating is the packets you are supplying to the server. If you are getting 60 fps, meaning 100 in and approximately 60 out (it fluxuates around but averages on your fps), if you hit someone with a bullet in one of the 40 packets that you received, but failed to send back out, it is not registered by the server, and thus no damage is dealt. This can be quite bad in game when you're trying to play seriously. Sometimes it even twists the knife with you being able to see blood on the person's body that you hit, but no damage was done to him the entire round.

So in other words, if you have a good ping, constant 100 fps, and are playing in a good server, you will have the best chance at your shots registering.

I messed around with the stuff some more, tried to get up to 2700, and could only go a little ways into the 2600's. I decided just to back it off and leave it alone since its running so stable atm. I figure don't look a gift horse in the mouth, especially when you don't know what half of the knobs do that you're trying to turn

Yeah... past 2.8Ghz was hard for me too and I don't find any gains from a Cpu overclock that are worth it to me, but my GPU OC works wonders...Thanks for that stuff. I get it now and I see why you would want to OC for that